Thai stocks

[Somros]

Perhaps a dumb question, but is info about Thai stocks mainly available in Thai or are there good sources for info in English as well?

 

Specifically, are earning calls and investor conferences conducted in Thai only? 

[bignok]

I wouldnt trust them. Look at Nok Air.

[aldriglikvid]

3 hours ago, bignok said:

I wouldnt trust them. Look at Nok Air.

Don't listen to this low-testo, low-energy nonsense. Thailand have approx. 950 listed stocks and as with all markets, you have gems and you have losers. 

Tons of value to be had in this local market if you're willing to do the research. The locals hardly invest themselves so there's little competition.

[soi3eddie]

Better off finding a border town casino and sitting at a roulette table. Can any figures, results and forecasts of Thai listed companies ever be believed? 50% chance of success? Some Thai monopolies might prove fruitfull if you have an insider tipping you off with info. I would avoid.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by soi3eddie

[bignok]

7 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

Don't listen to this low-testo, low-energy nonsense. Thailand have approx. 950 listed stocks and as with all markets, you have gems and you have losers. 

Tons of value to be had in this local market if you're willing to do the research. The locals hardly invest themselves so there's little competition.

They dont regulate them well.

[Somros]

18 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

Don't listen to this low-testo, low-energy nonsense. Thailand have approx. 950 listed stocks and as with all markets, you have gems and you have losers. 

Tons of value to be had in this local market if you're willing to do the research. The locals hardly invest themselves so there's little competition.

Mind sharing your preferred sites for relevant info?

[aldriglikvid]

11 hours ago, bignok said:

They dont regulate them well.

Again, we can't use Enron, Bear Stearns, Waste Management, World Com, Lehman Brothers, FreddieMac, Tyco (should I continue?) to claim the entire US Stock Market is uninvestable. All markets have some bad apples. 

 

The great thing about the Thai Stock Market is that you have zero to none global and local competition to stockpicking, so there's ton of money to be made. 0% Capital Gain tax for us locals and only 15% dividend tax. 

 

Don't listen to the bitter Boomers on this subject. Thanks! 

[StayinThailand2much]

22 hours ago, Somros said:

Perhaps a dumb question, but is info about Thai stocks mainly available in Thai or are there good sources for info in English as well?

Have you tried Google? Most info seems to be in Thai. 

[XGM]

1 hour ago, aldriglikvid said:

The great thing about the Thai Stock Market is that you have zero to none global and local competition to stockpicking, so there's ton of money to be made. 0% Capital Gain tax for us locals and only 15% dividend tax.

I agree the market is interesting. Regarding no stock picking competition though, how do you determine that? From SET site it seems that about 50% of the activity this year came from foreign investors.

 

https://www.set.or.th/en/market/statistics/investor-type

[aldriglikvid]

Wrong way to think about it, think about engagement: 

 

Shareholding per capita is below 5% in Thailand, and approx 50% in the US. Put differently, it's hard to find someone in their 30s or 40s in the US not invested and doing research of the US stock market - opposite here. It's rare. Not to mention lower valuations. Less competition and lower valuations.

 

Secondly, analyst coverage here per company is about 1/10th of US dito.

[XGM]

15 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Wrong way to think about it, think about engagement: 

 

Shareholding per capita is below 5% in Thailand, and approx 50% in the US. Put differently, it's hard to find someone in their 30s or 40s in the US not invested and doing research of the US stock market - opposite here. It's rare. Not to mention lower valuations. Less competition and lower valuations.

 

Secondly, analyst coverage here per company is about 1/10th of US dito.

Can you demonstrate how low valuations are advantages? if the valuations are low due to the factors you mentioned why would that change in the future? Buy low P/E, sell low P/E. However, if dividend yields end up being higher then you got a point here. Is this the case?

 

Regarding analyst coverage, the more eyes there are on a company (not only eyes, but mouths demanding answers from management as well), the better the transparency is. How is poor analyst coverage a positive thing for anyone other than insiders?

 

To clarify, I don't necessarily disagree with you but it's interesting to see how to substantiate that. I guess what you mean is that the higher centralization of market players results in more inefficiencies?

[aldriglikvid]

7 minutes ago, XGM said:

Can you demonstrate how low valuations are advantages? if the valuations are low due to the factors you mentioned why would that change in the future? Buy low P/E, sell low P/E. However, if dividend yields end up being higher then you got a point here. Is this the case?

 

Regarding analyst coverage, the more eyes there are on a company (not only eyes, but mouths demanding answers from management as well), the better the transparency is. How is poor analyst coverage a positive thing for anyone other than insiders?

 

To clarify, I don't necessarily disagree with you but it's interesting to see how to substantiate that. I guess what you mean is that the higher centralization of market players results in more inefficiencies?

 

- If you want to go fishing, and your ambition is to catch fish, do you want to fish in a pond with 150 other people also fishing in the same pond - or do you want to go to a lake where there's 3 people? 

 

Your questions are just too basic, and I don't have very much time to engage - but, here's some details about analyst coverage: 

 

Banks, such as Bank of America or J.P. Morgan, that have tens of millions of customers, produce equity research on companies. Whenever they like a company, i.e. cover a company with a Buy-rating, that is then sent as a Buy recommendation to their million of clients - creating a flow of bids (i.e. "demand"). Secondly, all the mutual funds around the world - trillions of dollars asset under management - use equity research to screen out their prospective new companies to acquire. Fishing in this pond, competing with slick wall street analysts - and then the whole tens of millions of retails investors doing research - how are you supposed to beat that? That's what I mean, it's easier to win a market with low competition. If you can't grasp those absolute basics, I've nothing more to help you with. Buy the Nasdaq. Buy Microsoft, have you heard about that up-and-coming tech company? Grab it before other finds it. ????

 

 

[XGM]

22 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

 

- If you want to go fishing, and your ambition is to catch fish, do you want to fish in a pond with 150 other people also fishing in the same pond - or do you want to go to a lake where there's 3 people? 

 

Your questions are just too basic, and I don't have very much time to engage - but, here's some details about analyst coverage: 

 

Banks, such as Bank of America or J.P. Morgan, that have tens of millions of customers, produce equity research on companies. Whenever they like a company, i.e. cover a company with a Buy-rating, that is then sent as a Buy recommendation to their million of clients - creating a flow of bids (i.e. "demand"). Secondly, all the mutual funds around the world - trillions of dollars asset under management - use equity research to screen out their prospective new companies to acquire. Fishing in this pond, competing with slick wall street analysts - and then the whole tens of millions of retails investors doing research - how are you supposed to beat that? That's what I mean, it's easier to win a market with low competition. If you can't grasp those absolute basics, I've nothing more to help you with. Buy the Nasdaq. Buy Microsoft, have you heard about that up-and-coming tech company? Grab it before other finds it. ????

 

 

My questions were indeed very basic and yet you did your best to dodge them. Low valuation is advantageous when the inherent reasons leading to it change at some point during your investment horizon. If they don't, the valuation isn't "low", it's "justified", and from an investment perspective - useless. Justified by who's opinion? by the market's opinion, and that's all that matters. Now if you could demonstrate higher dividend yields for example, showing the valuations are indeed objectively low, then you might have a leg to stand on. No numbers were shown to support your claim.

 

So, low valuations - not substantiated. Next.

 

Then, instead of any supporting facts, we got a writeup showing an admiration to the US financial sector. Anyone with any idea at all about the nature of this business knows the function of most financial analysts isn't to discover any hidden value but to generate as much business as possible to whatever financial institution they're working in - namely - commissions and management fees of all stripes and colors. I hate it break it to you but the income of investment banks and most other financial institutions doesn't come from superior returns but from client fees, a decades long fact summarized by the famous question "where are the clients' yachts??" (google it). Indeed if you put your trust in Bank of America's or JPM's buy and sell recommendations you are better off buying the Nasdaq or whatever equally random action you wish to take. And if you are not aware mutual funds rarely ever beat the market after fees then I suggest you do go back and do some serious research.

 

Now let's talk buy-side analysts, hedge funds, and others that are indeed in the business to find value. One could claim they are not active in the Thai market and leaves a lot on the table. Sounds nice, but as my first reply here showed you, in actual numbers, that foreign investors are a very significant part of the Thai market. And we are not talking Joe from Ohio or Jane from Mississippi. Those are foreign financial institutions, American, European, Asian and what not that move about 50% of the monthly market turnover. Yes, they are here. It may come a s surprise to you, but they are indeed very much aware the Thai market exist, and the point of looking for value in such emerging markets isn't lost on them. No, you are not the first to think of it, I am truly sorry to disappoint you. JPM, CS, UBS, and more have taken the pain to become actual registered members of SET due to their large activity, and many others are active without being members, using foreign and local staff to analyze local equities, with infrastructure and resources you do not posses.

 

So, low competition - not substantiated. And even if you have a point here, you as a foreigner have an inherent disadvantage due to language barriers (the issue the OP seems to rightly struggles with) but more importantly since you'd be the last to know what goes on, after all the insiders have acted. With any apparent advantage due to lower competition you'd still need to fight a uphill battle with the disadvantages of a less transparent market that has poor coverage, almost of all of in Thai (if you still don't see how this is important, I suggest you go back to the beginning and read again).

 

Bottom line - as I mentioned, we deal with facts and numbers here. Not fiction. You haven't shown any, and I doubt you can. I guess it's due to your limited time to engage ????

[aldriglikvid]

11 minutes ago, XGM said:

My questions were indeed very basic and yet you did your best to dodge them. Low valuation is advantageous when the inherent reasons leading to it change at some point during your investment horizon. If they don't, the valuation isn't "low", it's "justified", and from an investment perspective - useless. Justified by who's opinion? by the market's opinion, and that's all that matters. Now if you could demonstrate higher dividend yields for example, showing the valuations are indeed objectively low, then you might have a leg to stand on. No numbers were shown to support your claim.

 

So, low valuations - not substantiated. Next.

 

Then, instead of any supporting facts, we got a writeup showing an admiration to the US financial sector. Anyone with any idea at all about the nature of this business knows the function of most financial analysts isn't to discover any hidden value but to generate as much business as possible to whatever financial institution they're working in - namely - commissions and management fees of all stripes and colors. I hate it break it to you but the income of investment banks and most other financial institutions doesn't come from superior returns but from client fees, a decades long fact summarized by the famous question "where are the clients' yachts??" (google it). Indeed if you put your trust in Bank of America's or JPM's buy and sell recommendations you are better off buying the Nasdaq or whatever equally random action you wish to take. And if you are not aware mutual funds rarely ever beat the market after fees then I suggest you do go back and do some serious research.

 

Now let's talk buy-side analysts, hedge funds, and others that are indeed in the business to find value. One could claim they are not active in the Thai market and leaves a lot on the table. Sounds nice, but as my first reply here showed you, in actual numbers, that foreign investors are a very significant part of the Thai market. And we are not talking Joe from Ohio or Jane from Mississippi. Those are foreign financial institutions, American, European, Asian and what not that move about 50% of the monthly market turnover. Yes, they are here. It may come a s surprise to you, but they are indeed very much aware the Thai market exist, and the point of looking for value in such emerging markets isn't lost on them. No, you are not the first to think of it, I am truly sorry to disappoint you. JPM, CS, UBS, and more have taken the pain to become actual registered members of SET due to their large activity, and many others are active without being members, using foreign and local staff to analyze local equities, with infrastructure and resources you do not posses.

 

So, low competition - not substantiated. And even if you have a point here, you as a foreigner have an inherent disadvantage due to language barriers (the issue the OP seems to rightly struggles with) but more importantly since you'd be the last to know what goes on, after all the insiders have acted. With any apparent advantage due to lower competition you'd still need to fight a uphill battle with the disadvantages of a less transparent market that has poor coverage, almost of all of in Thai (if you still don't see how this is important, I suggest you go back to the beginning and read again).

 

Bottom line - as I mentioned, we deal with facts and numbers here. Not fiction. You haven't shown any, and I doubt you can. I guess it's due to your limited time to engage ????

Not reading all that, I tried my best to help you. Good luck! 

[Somros]

No need to fight kids.... if anyone has any suggestions regarding places to start from, except Thai Stock Exchange site, that would be more helpful than whether the market is rigged or not. 

 

Nobody here actually invests in the local market?

[aldriglikvid]

21 minutes ago, Somros said:

No need to fight kids.... if anyone has any suggestions regarding places to start from, except Thai Stock Exchange site, that would be more helpful than whether the market is rigged or not. 

 

Nobody here actually invests in the local market?

Yes, I do - and I've made tons of money.

These generalisations from @XGM, with a racist undertone, that management - or "insiders" as they are called here to increase the intrigue of it - will rip people blind, just because it's a Thai listed company is absolute nonsense. As mentioned earlier - three times now - all markets have some bad apples. 

 

If you do proper research, your ability to find great underanalyzed companies here are far, far easier than in the US. Less local competition, less global competition. 

Don't listen to the naysayers - go for it. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by aldriglikvid

[aldriglikvid]

39 minutes ago, XGM said:

Foreign investors are a very significant part of the Thai market.

Jeez, that was painful to read.  I'll try to help you with that, almost retarded, conclusion of yours: 

 

'Stock Market 1'

1500 listed companies

Let's say only 2 trades are made per day, of which 1 trade from an American and 1 trade from a Thai local 

= 50% foreign investors (your conclusion here is completely irrelevant, as you see) 

 

Foreign flows are approx. 40-50% of all markets in the world - it has nothing to do with KPI's such as shareholders per capita, analyst coverage per company, valuations per company etc. 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by aldriglikvid

[Somros]

43 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Yes, I do - and I've made tons of money.

These generalisations from @XGM, with a racist undertone, that management - or "insiders" as they are called here to increase the intrigue of it - will rip people blind, just because it's a Thai listed company is absolute nonsense. As mentioned earlier - three times now - all markets have some bad apples. 

 

If you do proper research, your ability to find great underanalyzed companies here are far, far easier than in the US. Less local competition, less global competition. 

Don't listen to the naysayers - go for it. 

Ok I understand you are the man with tonnes of money and can-do attitude but anything useful to contribute other than a prep talk?

 

Which sites do you use to gather info?

[Adumbration]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:28 PM, Somros said:

Perhaps a dumb question, but is info about Thai stocks mainly available in Thai or are there good sources for info in English as well?

 

Specifically, are earning calls and investor conferences conducted in Thai only? 

I have traded the SET for nearly two decades.  Nowadays I mostly trade derivative warrants.

 

I have published a good deal of material on this topic.  Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

There is lots of information available in English.

 

What broker are you using?

[Somros]

27 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I have traded the SET for nearly two decades.  Nowadays I mostly trade derivative warrants.

 

I have published a good deal of material on this topic.  Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

There is lots of information available in English.

 

What broker are you using?

Thanks. In general I am looking for stocks I'd love to hold for several years. I focus on value investing. How would you propose to begin? Do we get quarterly reports here? I only noticed yearly reports on the SET site but I am just starting to look. Are investor conceference calls done only in Thai?

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

- If you want to go fishing, and your ambition is to catch fish, do you want to fish in a pond with 150 other people also fishing in the same pond - or do you want to go to a lake where there's 3 people? 

Your oponents in the stock market are other stock market participants. In the US you have stupendous amounts of unsophisticated retail capital. In Thailand because there is so little retail capital you are up against mainly professionals.

 

If you were a fish would you rather go swim in a pond with tons of friendly fish or in a shark pool?

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Somros said:

Nobody here actually invests in the local market?

I've had the pleasure of dealing on a corporate level with some public companies. What I saw on the inside was not what one would assume by looking at the stock or disclosures. I'm hence respectfully passing on the opportunity ????

 

Of course if someone is a sophisticated professional trader then I'm sure there are plenty of profits to be made on the SET. I'm not so I don't.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by eisfeld

[aldriglikvid]

3 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Your oponents in the stock market are other stock market participants. In the US you have stupendous amounts of unsophisticated retail capital. In Thailand because there is so little retail capital you are up against mainly professionals.

 

If you were a fish would you rather go swim in a pond with tons of friendly fish or in a shark pool?

Sounds clever, but hardly true. 

What's with this forum. People just make up things that sounds like a zinger. 

[eisfeld]

2 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Sounds clever, but hardly true. 

What's with this forum. People just make up things that sounds like a zinger. 

Well if you have actual arguments then please come forth. That would be much more worthwhile contribution to the topic than whatever that post was.

[aldriglikvid]

8 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Well if you have actual arguments then please come forth. That would be much more worthwhile contribution to the topic than whatever that post was.

I've made my arguments very clear in earlier threads. You boomers stay at the Nasdaq and LSE, and I'll pick up the gems here and tax 0% in capital gains. Bye 

Edited September 23, 2023 by aldriglikvid

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, aldriglikvid said:

I've made my arguments very clear in earlier threads. You boomers stay at the Nasdaq and LSE, and I'll pick up the gems here and tax 0% in capital gains. Bye 

I don't think insulting people you don't know makes you sound credible to other readers. Maybe you do have some good knowledge to contribute. The fact about 0% capital gains tax on the SET for example is very valuable. The OP asked you for recommendations for sites to collect information. If you posted a few that for example would be much much better than throwing insults from a high horse.

[Adumbration]

8 hours ago, Somros said:

Thanks. In general I am looking for stocks I'd love to hold for several years. I focus on value investing. How would you propose to begin? Do we get quarterly reports here? I only noticed yearly reports on the SET site but I am just starting to look. Are investor conceference calls done only in Thai?

No such thing as Thai blue chip stocks that you can buy and hold.  The fortunes of all companies here can turn on a dime give the unstable and corrupt governments.  Also don't rely on any information from the companies themselves.  Most is pure fabrication.  And corruption also flows into the brokers as well...promoting stocks not because they are paid for but because of tea money.

 

That is why I moved to only trade Thai derivative warrants.  I do not trust any of the underlying stocks upon which the warrants are issued.  Just my own opinion on what the stock price will do and buy a call warrant or put warrant accordingly.

 

Who is your broker?

[Somros]

10 hours ago, Adumbration said:

What broker are you using?

I didnt open an account with a Thai broker yet. From what I have seen, a WP is required. I dont have a WP. Is this a must? Which brokerage firm do you recommend?

[Somros]

46 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Just my own opinion on what the stock price will do and buy a call warrant or put warrant accordingly.

Got it. So bascially you're doing  swing trading based on technical analysis, using the derivarives for leverage?

 

Appreciate your answers.

[Somros]

I am looking at KGI and Globlex. Both also provide API access (orders and market data) for both Equity and Derivarives which is something I might want to use apart from longer term investing.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Somros