Governments in Europe bolster security amid rise in antisemitism online

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Three arrests Jonny, at a ‘massive protest’.

 

Go on tell us how this equates to ‘importing the world’s conflicts’.

 

Remind me, the death toll in Israel and Gaza this week is?

Because if you hadn't noticed, since trouble flared in Gaza we now have conflict on the streets of London.

 

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/israel-and-hamas-conflict-sees-thousands-of-protesters-take-to-west-london-streets/

 

 

And not for the first time either. The same thing happened a couple of years ago.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/15/thousands-join-london-march-in-solidarity-with-palestine

 

 

Remind me, where did I say the death toll in London was the same as the death toll in Gaza? Oh that's right, I didn't. ????

 

#yetanotherstrawman

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yes it’s illegal to support terrorism.

 

Hamas is not Palestine.

Hamas routinely enjoys massive popular support among Palestinians, though.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

Hamas routinely enjoys massive popular support among Palestinians, though.

Correct, but in terms of the allegation of people supporting Hamas and therefore in breach of UK law the distinction between Hamas and Palestinians is one of legal importance.

 

There are many legitimate reasons to protest the suffering of Palestinians, there are absolutely no legitimate reasons to support Hamas.

 

 

[yardrunner]

Is it antisemitism or anti far right Israel government policies, In no way do I support the Hamas actions but I do think that the Israel governments actions have given Hamas the excuse they needed for their actions

[Morch]

20 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

Is it antisemitism or anti far right Israel government policies, In no way do I support the Hamas actions but I do think that the Israel governments actions have given Hamas the excuse they needed for their actions

I don't think that there's much objection to the notion of resisting or fighting an oppressive regime. The criticism is more to do with what's on and what's not. I don't know that Israeli governments' actions justified the more gruesome parts of the recent Hamas attack.

 

Had the Hamas, for example, just raided the the army bases attacked, even capturing soldiers - that would be legit. Maybe not constructive, maybe be futile, but it wouldn't be called an atrocity or anything. And it would make the point just as effectively - without the negative backlash the Hamas needs to contend with now.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

I may be wrong but didn't the UK Government designate Hamas as terrorists?

If so it is illegal to support terrorism?

 

"It is a criminal offence to belong to or invite support for a proscribed organisation or wear clothing which could be seen to support the group"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59346441

Some UK politicians certainly think so. Seems chanting is now a criminal offense. Shame on her.

 

October 10, 2023 4:38 pm(Updated October 11, 2023 9:21 am)  Home Secretary Suella Braverman has written to all chief constables in England and Wales asking them to consider chants such as “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” and waving Palestinian flags in Jewish areas as criminal offences.

 

October 10, 2023 4:38 pm(Updated October 11, 2023 9:21 am)

Home Secretary Suella Braverman has written to all chief constables in England and Wales asking them to consider chants such as “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” and waving Palestinian flags in Jewish areas as criminal offences.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 hours ago, yardrunner said:

Is it antisemitism or anti far right Israel government policies, In no way do I support the Hamas actions but I do think that the Israel governments actions have given Hamas the excuse they needed for their actions

There is absolutely no excuse for the deliberate targeting of civilians.

 

Nor for the rape of women and girls.

 

Nor for the cold blooded murder of men women and children.

 

Nor for the mutilation of their bodies.

 

Nor for hostage taking.

 

Nor for threats to execute hostages.

 

Get back to me if that’s not clear.

 

 

[SunsetT]

I am not anti-semitic but I am anti-Zionist (A lot of people confuse the two) and I am therefore pro-Palestinian. I have been ever since decades ago I saw on reputable UK  TV; BBC Panorama or the like (long before Social Media, You Tube etc.) video evidence shown of 2 Israeli troops on a hillside using rocks to break the arm bones of stone-throwing boys/teenagers captured during an intifada.

 

The Jewish race were a dispossessed and persecuted people for 2000 years yet they have treated, and continued to treat, the Palestinian people in exactly the same way as they were treated; brutally repressing, killing them and discriminating against them, destroying their homes and stealing more and more of their land for settlers. This is the absolute height of HYPOCRISY!

 

I am not religious but thank god Jesus came along and overrode the Jewish Old Testament teaching of  'An eye for an eye' with the forgiveness embodied in the New Testament teaching of 'Turn the other cheek'. Gandhi was right when he said that if 'an eye for an eye' is practised you end up with the whole World blind.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I am not anti-semitic but I am anti-Zionist (A lot of people confuse the two) and I am therefore pro-Palestinian. I have been ever since decades ago I saw on reputable UK  TV; BBC Panorama or the like (long before Social Media, You Tube etc.) video evidence shown of 2 Israeli troops on a hillside using rocks to break the arm bones of stone-throwing boys/teenagers captured during an intifada.

 

The Jewish race were a dispossessed and persecuted people for 2000 years yet they have treated, and continued to treat, the Palestinian people in exactly the same way as they were treated; brutally repressing, killing them and discriminating against them, destroying their homes and stealing more and more of their land for settlers. This is the absolute height of HYPOCRISY!

 

I am not religious but thank god Jesus came along and overrode the Jewish Old Testament teaching of  'An eye for an eye' with the forgiveness embodied in the New Testament teaching of 'Turn the other cheek'. Gandhi was right when he said that if 'an eye for an eye' is practised you end up with the whole World blind.

Excellent post

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I am not anti-semitic but I am anti-Zionist (A lot of people confuse the two) and I am therefore pro-Palestinian. I have been ever since decades ago I saw on reputable UK  TV; BBC Panorama or the like (long before Social Media, You Tube etc.) video evidence shown of 2 Israeli troops on a hillside using rocks to break the arm bones of stone-throwing boys/teenagers captured during an intifada.

 

The Jewish race were a dispossessed and persecuted people for 2000 years yet they have treated, and continued to treat, the Palestinian people in exactly the same way as they were treated; brutally repressing, killing them and discriminating against them, destroying their homes and stealing more and more of their land for settlers. This is the absolute height of HYPOCRISY!

 

I am not religious but thank god Jesus came along and overrode the Jewish Old Testament teaching of  'An eye for an eye' with the forgiveness embodied in the New Testament teaching of 'Turn the other cheek'. Gandhi was right when he said that if 'an eye for an eye' is practised you end up with the whole World blind.

 

Not to break your turn-the-other-cheek bubble or anything, but I recall maybe a few cases of Christians mass killing other Christians? Wars being waged between opposing Christian believers? 'Heretics' burned at the stake etc.? The crusades?

 

Conspicuously missing from your list is one other, large monotheistic religion....

 

[JonnyF]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:14 PM, SunsetT said:

 

I am not religious but thank god Jesus came along

It’s comedy gold like this that keeps me coming back to AN.
 

Some mothers do have ‘em. ????

[placeholder]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:46 PM, Morch said:

I don't think that there's much objection to the notion of resisting or fighting an oppressive regime. The criticism is more to do with what's on and what's not. I don't know that Israeli governments' actions justified the more gruesome parts of the recent Hamas attack.

 

Had the Hamas, for example, just raided the the army bases attacked, even capturing soldiers - that would be legit. Maybe not constructive, maybe be futile, but it wouldn't be called an atrocity or anything. And it would make the point just as effectively - without the negative backlash the Hamas needs to contend with now.

I'm pretty confident that it would be called terrorism.

 

As for that negative backlash, I think that was the point of the atrocities. Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza which will, in their estimation, put paid to the Abraham Accords.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

I'm pretty confident that it would be called terrorism.

 

As for that negative backlash, I think that was the point of the atrocities. Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza which will, in their estimation, put paid to the Abraham Accords.

Not sure which part of my post your first line refers to.

 

As for Hamas intentions, maybe so. But the more information revealed on Hamas plans, it would seem that the attack was actually repelled before it reached full goals - capturing even more hostages, expanding the range of operations deeper into Israel, and even holding position for a longer time. Part of this is based on documents found, and some is indicated by the sheer volume of arms, ammunition, supplies etc. brought it.

 

Maybe the 'full version', if that's what it was, would have led to the same results, or would have been enough to undermine Israel's credibility enough to make certain countries to reconsider ties and normalization. I do not know.

 

Taking the line of though you suggest, would bring Hamas's cynicism and disregard for human life (including and especially his own people).

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

Not sure which part of my post your first line refers to.

 

As for Hamas intentions, maybe so. But the more information revealed on Hamas plans, it would seem that the attack was actually repelled before it reached full goals - capturing even more hostages, expanding the range of operations deeper into Israel, and even holding position for a longer time. Part of this is based on documents found, and some is indicated by the sheer volume of arms, ammunition, supplies etc. brought it.

 

Maybe the 'full version', if that's what it was, would have led to the same results, or would have been enough to undermine Israel's credibility enough to make certain countries to reconsider ties and normalization. I do not know.

 

Taking the line of though you suggest, would bring Hamas's cynicism and disregard for human life (including and especially his own people).

This part: 

"Had the Hamas, for example, just raided the the army bases attacked, even capturing soldiers - that would be legit. Maybe not constructive, maybe be futile, but it wouldn't be called an atrocity or anything. "

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This part: 

"Had the Hamas, for example, just raided the the army bases attacked, even capturing soldiers - that would be legit. Maybe not constructive, maybe be futile, but it wouldn't be called an atrocity or anything. "

Oh, it would be called 'terrorist' for sure - at least by Israel. But I think if carried out without the atrocities witnessed on their attack, it would be legit. At least as far as international law goes. There would definitely be less criticism than now, and it would be easier to frame as 'resistance'.