Moment Range Rover explodes before £20m multi-storey structure collapses - sparking travel chaos for up to 50,000 passengers

[Georgealbert]

If anyone is really interested in facts, here are some links to research, procedures, and information about some of the issues. These are from validated., professional and reliable sources.
 

This shows that continued assessment, research and guidelines are ongoing for EVs, just like every other type of fire and accident risk.

 

There is no big conspiracy to hid the truth.

 

https://irescue.jp/PDF/EVFG-15-PDF.pdf

 

https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-Events/By-topic/Alternative-Fuel-Vehicle-Safety-Training/Emergency-Response-Guides
 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1168956/covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf
 

https://nfcc.org.uk/our-services/position-statements/operations-committee/emergency-responders-guide-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles/
 

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1744882/FULLTEXT01.pdf

[metisdead]

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[JonnyF]

I wonder if the malls could start offering EV Free parking areas for a premium? Like a fire free zone for 50 baht extra. 

 

I would certainly be prepared to pay extra not be next to these lithium filled time bombs. 
 

I guess the problem with that proposal is that once they start, they take out the whole building anyway. 
 

Just putting ideas out there..,

[Georgealbert]

Here is a similar incident from Cork 2019. Opel Zafira B

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-shopping-centre-reopens-after-30m-fire-damage-1.4406760

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/up-to-60-cars-scorched-in-accidental-cork-car-park-blaze-1.4004015
 

Pictures of start of the fire ( note the lack of thick black smoke, because it is not the fuel burning at this stage) and picture of the damage.

[nauseus]

  On 10/14/2023 at 9:58 PM, Georgealbert said:

Sorry, here is the press release from Bedfordshire fire service.

 

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/london-luton-airport-car-park-fire

 

There is no big conspiracy going on.

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Yes, I saw that. However, the chief of the same brigade was quoted as I posted. Sorry to say this but I think this is a half-truth. When interviewed, this man steered well clear of describing the fire and its causes but was giving travel advice instead - not really his job at all! If you can show what was actually burning during the initial stages of the fire then I can listen but as you have said, the fuel wasn't diesel.

[vinny41]

Not a good week for cars in Luton

Fire engulfs ‘hybrid’ car within seconds of starting

A fire engulfed a “hybrid” car within seconds of starting, a dramatic video has shown.

Boxell Removals employees were driving along Crawley Green Road, Luton on October 15 when they noticed a fire had started underneath the Kia in front of them.

One of the workers quickly climbed out of his vehicle and ran after the burning vehicle to alert the driver.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hybrid-kia-car-fire-luton-b2429886.html

[Chomper Higgot]

  On 10/15/2023 at 4:30 AM, JonnyF said:

I wonder if the malls could start offering EV Free parking areas for a premium? Like a fire free zone for 50 baht extra. 

 

I would certainly be prepared to pay extra not be next to these lithium filled time bombs. 
 

I guess the problem with that proposal is that once they start, they take out the whole building anyway. 
 

Just putting ideas out there..,

Expand  

It wouldn’t have changed the outcome here. 
 

The fire started with a Diesel engines vehicle.

[Georgealbert]

  On 10/15/2023 at 5:31 AM, nauseus said:

Yes, I saw that. However, the chief of the same brigade was quoted as I posted. Sorry to say this but I think this is a half-truth. When interviewed, this man steered well clear of describing the fire and its causes but was giving travel advice instead - not really his job at all! If you can show what was actually burning during the initial stages of the fire then I can listen but as you have said, the fuel wasn't diesel.

Expand  

The first comment by the Chief Officer was made during the incident. The press release was made after the incident.

 

Have you given a interview during an emergency incident? He will be following service guidelines and keeping any full details until later.

 

The claim of half truths is defamation of Andrew Hopkinson, the Chief Officer, there is no big conspiracy.

 

i give up trying to post facts, too many people posting on social media, and only following their own agendas. 

 

i am sorry the facts don’t meet you hopes to blame EVs.

 

[Georgealbert]

  On 10/15/2023 at 5:35 AM, vinny41 said:

Not a good week for cars in Luton

Fire engulfs ‘hybrid’ car within seconds of starting

A fire engulfed a “hybrid” car within seconds of starting, a dramatic video has shown.

Boxell Removals employees were driving along Crawley Green Road, Luton on October 15 when they noticed a fire had started underneath the Kia in front of them.

One of the workers quickly climbed out of his vehicle and ran after the burning vehicle to alert the driver.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hybrid-kia-car-fire-luton-b2429886.html

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English fire services attended 18914 road vehicles fires in 2022. So you cherry pick one incident to try to highlight!

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-and-rescue-incident-statistics-england-year-ending-september-2022/fire-and-rescue-incident-statistics-england-year-ending-september-2022

[vinny41]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:00 AM, Georgealbert said:

English fire services attended 18914 road vehicles fires in 2022. So you cherry pick one incident to try to highlight!

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-and-rescue-incident-statistics-england-year-ending-september-2022/fire-and-rescue-incident-statistics-england-year-ending-september-2022

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I didn't cherry pick as you stated it is a news item that happen today October 15th

[Liverpool Lou]

  On 10/12/2023 at 3:16 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

They don't specifically state the Diesel car was the Range Rover, but diesel does not to my knowledge explode by itself, which is why it is a preferable fuel for tanks.

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There are plenty of other inflammable materials on cars besides diesel fuel that can burn following an electrical fault.

[nauseus]

  On 10/15/2023 at 5:48 AM, Georgealbert said:

The first comment by the Chief Officer was made during the incident. The press release was made after the incident.

 

Have you given a interview during an emergency incident? He will be following service guidelines and keeping any full details until later.

 

The claim of half truths is defamation of Andrew Hopkinson, the Chief Officer, there is no big conspiracy.

 

i give up trying to post facts, too many people posting on social media, and only following their own agendas. 

 

i am sorry the facts don’t meet you hopes to blame EVs.

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The statement was obviously made on the day following the incident.

 

I said that I think this is a half-truth. That is my opinion. So sue me.

 

There have been few "facts" given - that is one reason for my suspicion.

 

Your supposition that I hope to blame EVs is nonsense. What I do hope is that unnecessary injury and death can be minimized by improvements. If these EV vehicle batteries continue to show this type of spontaneous and violent combustion, then the batteries need to be made much safer. 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

  On 10/12/2023 at 3:19 AM, impulse said:

Land Rover.  They've been notorious for electrical problems since British Leyland.

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BL was a long time ago and LRs have not been "notorious" for that for decades.

[Chomper Higgot]

Imagine the heat that would have been generated in this thread if the fire had been attributable to an EV.

 

It wasn’t and there’s still flame fanning and hot gasses coming out of the anti-EV corner.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

  On 10/12/2023 at 7:02 AM, retarius said:

I guess this will make them less easy and much more expensive to insure.

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Range Rovers?  

[Chomper Higgot]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:22 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Range Rovers?  

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Theft of which is currently the real risk.

 

 

[nauseus]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:26 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Theft of which is currently the real risk.

 

 

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No self-respecting car thief will want a car that doesn't flip on quickly.

[Georgealbert]

  On 10/15/2023 at 6:13 AM, nauseus said:

The statement was obviously made on the day following the incident.

 

I said that I think this is a half-truth. That is my opinion. So sue me.

 

There have been few "facts" given - that is one reason for my suspicion.

 

Your supposition that I hope to blame EVs is nonsense. What I do hope is that unnecessary injury and death can be minimized by improvements. If these EV vehicle batteries continue to show this type of spontaneous and violent combustion, then the batteries need to be made much safer. 

 

 

Expand  

Here is the contact details for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue.

 

Maybe email them and ask why the chief is lying.

 

Incident details are not released until the final investigation and report are completed. Standard in every incident.

 

EVs and batteries are always under research to improve both reliability and safety, have posted some research earlier. In the thread.

 

The real learning point from the Luton, Liverpool and Cork car park fires, is the basic fire safety measures required under current regulations.
 

Sprinklers would have slowed or stopped fire spread to allow successful fire service intervention. Also contrary to general belief sprinklers are designed for fire containment, if it extinguishes the fire that is a bonus.

 

Given the deregulation policy of the present and past UK governments, I am not holding my breath. 

 

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/contact-us

[Georgealbert]

Check “The Secret Firefighter UK” on X (formally twitter, if you don’t know). Their posts are very much raising the awareness and dangers of lithium batteries and EVs.

 

But check what he sys about the Luton car park fire, the reason for this thread.

 

Hope the links is not breaking the rules, if it is please delete.

 

https://x.com/thesecretff999/status/1712367730345566228?s=68&t=Gb4KIKw5vbi2R87-_LDePA
 

 

[nauseus]

  On 10/15/2023 at 7:12 AM, Georgealbert said:

Check “The Secret Firefighter UK” on X (formally twitter, if you don’t know). Their posts are very much raising the awareness and dangers of lithium batteries and EVs.

 

But check what he sys about the Luton car park fire, the reason for this thread.

 

Hope the links is not breaking the rules, if it is please delete.

 

https://x.com/thesecretff999/status/1712367730345566228?s=68&t=Gb4KIKw5vbi2R87-_LDePA
 

 

Expand  

This looks to be a response to another post.

 

Rather incomplete and confusing really.

[Neeranam]

  On 10/12/2023 at 2:07 AM, Social Media said:

It comes as devastated Britons told MailOnline how their cars went up in flames at the site - including one couple who had parked a new £48,000 Mercedes there.

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You'd think it would be insured if they can afford that for a car.

[Georgealbert]

  On 10/15/2023 at 12:09 PM, nauseus said:

This looks to be a response to another post.

 

Rather incomplete and confusing really.

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Sorry I am used to using X. I should not have assumed everyone else could.

 

If you click on their profile icon you get to read all their posts. There you will see what posts this response is to and their general views on Lithium batteries. 

[JonnyF]

Another one bites the dust in Luton. A Kia this time.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hybrid-kia-car-fire-luton-b2429886.html

 

Large orange flames coming from underneath.

 

 

Now where have I seen that before?

 

[Georgealbert]

  On 10/16/2023 at 1:48 AM, JonnyF said:

Another one bites the dust in Luton. A Kia this time.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/hybrid-kia-car-fire-luton-b2429886.html

 

Large orange flames coming from underneath.

 

 

Now where have I seen that before?

 

Expand  

England has about 20000 vehicle fires a year, so you pick one incident to push your agenda.

 

This from someone whose only experience comes from you tube.
 

You can only guess from that poor quality picture.

 

Do you really think that all firefighters, police, ambulance, airport staff, Chief Fire Officer, Police chief, fire investigators, scenes of crime, health and safety investigators that have attend Luton car park are in on the conspiracy! It was a diesel car.

 

Follow these links for professional training in qualifications.

 

https://gardinerassociates.com/
 

https://www.fireservicecollege.ac.uk/
 

When you have gained some basic knowledge, experience and skills, maybe can have a sensible conversation.

[JonnyF]

  On 10/16/2023 at 2:23 AM, Georgealbert said:

Do you really think that all firefighters, police, ambulance, airport staff, Chief Fire Officer, Police chief, fire investigators, scenes of crime, health and safety investigators that have attend Luton car park are in on the conspiracy! It was a diesel car.

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Yes, a diesel hybrid.

 

I know what I see. You can gaslight as much as you like. You can tell me that grass is blue. If I see it's green, it's green. Those bright orange flames coming from the left hand side of the car is lithium burning, not diesel. It's coming from under the passenger seat, which is where the Range Rover hybrid range stores it's batteries.

 

 

[BenStark]

  On 10/16/2023 at 2:23 AM, Georgealbert said:

England has about 20000 vehicle fires a year, so you pick one incident to push your agenda.

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Do you have a link to a credible source with figures about how many of those are EV?

 

Then again, do you have a link to a credible source with figure how many EV's and how many petrol vehicles are on the road in the UK.

[Chomper Higgot]

  On 10/16/2023 at 2:29 AM, JonnyF said:

Yes, a diesel hybrid.

 

I know what I see. You can gaslight as much as you like. You can tell me that grass is blue. If I see it's green, it's green. Those bright orange flames coming from the left hand side of the car is lithium burning, not diesel. It's coming from under the passenger seat, which is where the Range Rover hybrid range stores it's batteries.

 

 

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The Bedfordshire Fire Brigade official press release stated a Diesel vehicle.

 

So do you have any factual information or statements that contradict the Fire Brigade statement?

 

Or are you providing us with an example of gaslighting? 

[Georgealbert]

  On 10/16/2023 at 2:42 AM, BenStark said:

Do you have a link to a credible source with figures about how many of those are EV?

 

Then again, do you have a link to a credible source with figure how many EV's and how many petrol vehicles are on the road in the UK.

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Ever time the fire service attends a incident, then details are recorded and entered onto a government (Home Office) data base. Below is a link to both that data base and dataset guidance of how the information is collected.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-statistics-incident-level-datasets/road-vehicle-fires-dataset-guidance

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1173188/fire-statistics-data-tables-fire0302-270723.xlsx

 

These are the best government data I can access (I believe a reliable source). I hope the final year statistics will give a break down of what fuels were involved, as that information is collected by attending fire crews, in their fire reporting.

 

Here is a report about electric vehicle from Honeywell, but this is a company involved in the industry..

 

https://www.energylivenews.com/2023/09/11/uk-ev-fires-double-in-a-year/#

 

I have no idea about how many total vehicles on the roads, my knowledge and interest is mostly fire related and as my whole career was in England, most information I access in English.

 

Hope that gives some info on what you asked.

 

 

[CharlieH]

Reported post and response removed.

[BenStark]

  On 10/16/2023 at 3:14 AM, Georgealbert said:

Ever time the fire service attends a incident, then details are recorded and entered onto a government (Home Office) data base. Below is a link to both that data base and dataset guidance of how the information is collected.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-statistics-incident-level-datasets/road-vehicle-fires-dataset-guidance

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1173188/fire-statistics-data-tables-fire0302-270723.xlsx

 

These are the best government data I can access (I believe a reliable source). I hope the final year statistics will give a break down of what fuels were involved, as that information is collected by attending fire crews, in their fire reporting.

 

Here is a report about electric vehicle from Honeywell, but this is a company involved in the industry..

 

https://www.energylivenews.com/2023/09/11/uk-ev-fires-double-in-a-year/#

 

I have no idea about how many total vehicles on the roads, my knowledge and interest is mostly fire related and as my whole career was in England, most information I access in English.

 

Hope that gives some info on what you asked.

 

 

Expand  

Good try George, but no cigar for you, because none of my 2 simple questions was even the subject in any of the links you posted.

 

Although this excerpt from your last link was interesting to read.

 

That’s according to newly obtained data by Honeywell Safety and Productivity Solutions which shows that between July 2022 and June 2023, UK fire services recorded 239 fires linked to EVs.

This marks an 83% surge from the 130 incidents reported during the same period the previous year.

 

Has the amount of EV's in use (that does not mean sales) increased by 83% in the same period?