2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Agreed. But IMO he'll pull out of both before the job is complete.

 

Just like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Something will come up to divert his attention, likely China invading Taiwan. 

A bit early for such nonsense.

 

You should consider that perhaps the robust support for Ukraine will give China pause for thought on ideas to invade  Taiwan.

 

Oh and Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, those were wars in which America fought.

 

America is not fighting in Ukraine.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your whole ‘Afghanistan withdrawal’ is a deflection Jonny.

It's another excellent example of America failing to fulfill it's self appointed role as World Policemen. Others are available if you don't like that one.

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

And one for which you are willfully ignorant of the facts.

 

Perhaps Biden should stay out of other lives, and not petition Israel to allow aid into Gaza and not provide weapons to the Ukranian’s in order that they can fight the illegal military invasion of their country.

We've all seen that America's interference in foreign countries rarely ends well. 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Thankfully he chooses otherwise.

 

That he also doesn’t try to extort Ukraine is a bonus.

 

Oh and Congress votes the Budget, not the President.

I'm sure he will want his pound of flesh from Ukraine when all is said and done. 

21 hours ago, Social Media said:

Have you ever known a major war in Europe we didn’t get sucked into?

A more accurate statement would be have you ever known any conflict around the world that the USA didn't get sucked in to.  The world has come to expect that whenever there is a war around the world that the USA will put a dog in the fight and spill its blood and treasure while most of the world does nothing but complain.  They complain if the USA doesn't involve itself and complain if the USA does involve itself. 

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

It's another excellent example of America failing to fulfill it's self appointed role as World Policemen. Others are available if you don't like that one.

 

We've all seen that America's interference in foreign countries rarely ends well. 

 

I'm sure he will want his pound of flesh from Ukraine when all is said and done. 

The US went into Afghanistan to remove Al Qaeda - mission accomplished.

 

Refer timeline listed educate yourself on the withdrawal.

 

The fact you aren’t speaking German demonstrates the ignorance of your second post.

 

You are sure of many things Jonny, which in itself is no guide to their veracity.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You should consider that perhaps the robust support for Ukraine will give China pause for thought on ideas to invade  Taiwan.

More likely China is licking it's lips, thinking this is the perfect time to strike. You vastly over-estimate the regard with which America is held around the world. Everyone knows they are only ever in it for the short term. History tells us that. 

 

It's 2023 not 1963. America doesn't call the shots like you think they do. China has no fear of America, especially since they are now stupidly pre-occupied with Ukraine and Israel. No amount of nationalistic chest beating by Biden changes that. 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The US went into Afghanistan to remove Al Qaeda - mission accomplished.

And left a massive void which has led the Taliban taking over and huge human rights abuses, especially for women.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/15/asia/afghanistan-taliban-takeover-anniversary-women-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

 

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

More likely China is licking it's lips, thinking this is the perfect time to strike. You vastly over-estimate the regard with which America is held around the world. Everyone knows they are only ever in it for the short term. History tells us that. 

 

It's 2023 not 1963. America doesn't call the shots like you think they do. China has no fear of America, especially since they are now stupidly pre-occupied with Ukraine and Israel. No amount of nationalistic chest beating by Biden changes that. 

US preoccupation with Ukraine, sending weapons at a profit.

 

US Involvement with Israel, sending two out of 11 of it’s carrier strike groups.

 

 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

And left a massive void which has led the Taliban taking over and huge human rights abuses, especially for women.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/15/asia/afghanistan-taliban-takeover-anniversary-women-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

 

 

Again, read the timeline and at least have some grasp of what you are talking about.

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Again, read the timeline and at least have some grasp of what you are talking about.

I am well aware of the timeline. You are attempting to play the Trump vs. Biden card in order to deflect. You blame Trump. I blame Biden. This is bigger than two people disagreeing on a forum. Ultimately America has to take responsibility for it's actions as a nation. 

 

It doesn't help the Afghan women whose human rights have been destroyed for leftists like you to say "But but but it was all Trump's fault". Their lives have been destroyed and America as a nation has to take some responsibility for that no matter which side of the divide you are on. Your attempts to deflect from the impact of the withdrawal by blaming Trump for it all (even though Biden oversaw it) is disgraceful, even if it were true.

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

More likely China is licking it's lips, thinking this is the perfect time to strike. You vastly over-estimate the regard with which America is held around the world. Everyone knows they are only ever in it for the short term. History tells us that. 

 

It's 2023 not 1963. America doesn't call the shots like you think they do. China has no fear of America, especially since they are now stupidly pre-occupied with Ukraine and Israel. No amount of nationalistic chest beating by Biden changes that. 

Strange I’ve never ever seen this so called national chest beating you refer to I do see us standing by our staunch ally Israel protecting her flanks Incase Iran wants to get (sporty) I have seen my country respond to a nations plea (Ukraine)as they are being invaded by raping looting murdering invaders and as a reward for such a good deed see Russia humiliated stopped in its tracks and bankrupted without costing American lives all at the bargain price of 6% of our national defense budget and don’t worry about price the employment created by Putin and hammas will end up paying for itself.all of that being said I and most folks see this horrible violence as sickening and barbaric just rember who started it 

No simultaneous wars with Hamas and Russia won't bankrupt the US, after all Israel is armed to the teeth and there will be no boots on the ground. But add in wars against Iran schedule for later this year and China scheduled for late 2024 or early 2025 and we have problem Houston.

Just now, JonnyF said:

I am well aware of the timeline. You are attempting to play the Trump vs. Biden card in order to deflect. You blame Trump. I blame Biden. This is bigger than two people disagreeing on a forum. Ultimately America has to take responsibility for it's actions as a nation. 

 

It doesn't help the Afghan women whose human rights have been destroyed for leftists like you to say "But but but it was all Trump's fault". Their lives have been destroyed and America as a nation has to take some responsibility for that no matter which side of the divide you are on. Your attempts to deflect from the impact of the withdrawal by blaming Trump for it all (even though Biden oversaw it) is disgraceful, even if it were true.

Hang on a minute.

 

You want the US out of other people’s lives and you blame the IS for getting out of other people’s lives in Afghanistan of snd of course you invent and then attribute some views to ‘lefties’.

 

Read the timeline you’ll understand who it was who ordered the immediate unconditional release of Taliban militants from Afghan prisons.

 

The US did not go to Afghanistan to improve the lives of Afghan women.

 

The appalling treatment of Afghan women is down to the Taliban and whoever it was who ordered the unconditional release of thousands of Taliban from Afghan prisons.

 

Oh and the UK withdrew too.

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I am well aware of the timeline. You are attempting to play the Trump vs. Biden card in order to deflect. You blame Trump. I blame Biden. This is bigger than two people disagreeing on a forum. Ultimately America has to take responsibility for it's actions as a nation. 

 

It doesn't help the Afghan women whose human rights have been destroyed for leftists like you to say "But but but it was all Trump's fault". Their lives have been destroyed and America as a nation has to take some responsibility for that no matter which side of the divide you are on. Your attempts to deflect from the impact of the withdrawal by blaming Trump for it all (even though Biden oversaw it) is disgraceful, even if it were true.

Afghanistan was left with the means to defend its self it chose not to and reverted back to its old self they chose their path.keep in mind the people in charge of that backward place harbored and aided the animals that did the World Trade Center the pentagon and caused the loss of another aircraft do not expect us to ignore something so grievous 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

All it does is provide you with the opportunity to deflect. To conjure a lame excuse as to why Biden completely messed up the withdrawal.

 

Biden can damage the US as much as he likes, but he needs to stop putting his nose into other people's business. He's not capable. He's not cognizant. He's resorting to immature chest pounding and flag waving with other people's money and other people's lives..

 

 

Pathetic.

Maybe pathetic to you, but a fact. It doesn't matter what you think about Biden. His word , and final decisions, are always voted on. And most Americans are fine with paying taxes to protect our country.

23 minutes ago, Tug said:

Afghanistan was left with the means to defend its self it chose not to and reverted back to its old self they chose their path

good one. what means would that be ? 

 

Afghanistan was left the same way it was found, a disgrace.....but with more weapons. 

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

And left a massive void which has led the Taliban taking over and huge human rights abuses, especially for women.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/15/asia/afghanistan-taliban-takeover-anniversary-women-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

 

 

And the Trump administration bears no responsibility for this?

3 hours ago, retarius said:

No simultaneous wars with Hamas and Russia won't bankrupt the US, after all Israel is armed to the teeth and there will be no boots on the ground. But add in wars against Iran schedule for later this year and China scheduled for late 2024 or early 2025 and we have problem Houston.

Can we see that schedule you refer to?

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

And the Trump administration bears no responsibility for this?

It's sad that all you care about is trying to shift the blame away from Biden. I guess you're too wrapped up in US tribal politics to give a damn about the mess that the US war mongering leaves behind. Sadly, many Americans think like this. They don't care about women losing their human rights in Afghanistan, as long as they can blame the other side. It's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Edited October 17, 20232 yr by JonnyF

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's sad that all you care about is trying to shift the blame away from Biden. I guess you're too wrapped up in US tribal politics to give a damn about the mess that the US war mongering leaves behind. Sadly, many Americans think like this. They don't care about women losing their human rights in Afghanistan, as long as they can blame the other side. It's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Can you please explain, in your own words, what war mongering the US were involved in when Putin illegally invaded Ukrainian?

 

And when you’ve done that, tell us what war mongering the US was engaged in when Hamas committed their obscene terrorist attack on Israel?

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's sad that all you care about is trying to shift the blame away from Biden. I guess you're too wrapped up in US tribal politics to give a damn about the mess that the US war mongering leaves behind. Sadly, many Americans think like this. They don't care about women losing their human rights in Afghanistan, as long as they can blame the other side. It's pretty pathetic to be honest.

It's Trump who de facto gave the keys to the Taliban, by negotiating directly with the Taliban without involving the Afghan government, forced the government to free 5000 fighters, did not react to the fact that the Taliban did not respect the commitments they made, etc...

 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Can you please explain, in your own words, what war mongering the US were involved in when Putin illegally invaded Ukrainian?

 

And when you’ve done that, tell us what war mongering the US was engaged in when Hamas committed their obscene terrorist attack on Israel?

 

 

 

 

I was talking about the mess/power vacuum left behind after the war mongering in Afghanistan. But you already knew that. 

 

However, funding conflict and providing weapons for others to do the killing while you beat your chest and fly your flag about US strength is hardly endearing behaviour. Preferable to sending your own youth to do the killing as they did in Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan I suppose.

2 minutes ago, candide said:

It's Trump who de facto gave the keys to the Taliban, by negotiating directly with the Taliban without involving the Afghan government, forced the government to free 5000 fighters, did not react to the fact that the Taliban did not respect the commitments they made, etc...

 

There you go again. 

 

Sad. No F's given for what was left behind as long as you can blame Trump. Played like a fiddle.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

There you go again. 

 

Sad. No F's given for what was left behind as long as you can blame Trump. Played like a fiddle.

So, practically, what should the U.S. have done, according to you? Stay in Afghanistan?

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's sad that all you care about is trying to shift the blame away from Biden. I guess you're too wrapped up in US tribal politics to give a damn about the mess that the US war mongering leaves behind. Sadly, many Americans think like this. They don't care about women losing their human rights in Afghanistan, as long as they can blame the other side. It's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Really? What's pathetic is that you can't acknowledge the reality of the huge role the Trump administration played in the downfall of Afghanistan. The withdrawal of 60% of American troops. And those remaining removed from the front lines. The release of almost 5000 Taliban prisoners. The withdrawal deadline of all US troops by May 1, 2021. 

6 minutes ago, candide said:

So, practically, what should the U.S. have done, according to you? Stay in Afghanistan?

No.

 

They should have managed the withdrawal in a safe and orderly fashion and ensured that there was security in place to handle the massive power vacuum left behind after removing Al Qaeda.

 

If they weren't prepared to do that, they should never have gone in.

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I was talking about the mess/power vacuum left behind after the war mongering in Afghanistan. But you already knew that. 

 

However, funding conflict and providing weapons for others to do the killing while you beat your chest and fly your flag about US strength is hardly endearing behaviour. Preferable to sending your own youth to do the killing as they did in Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan I suppose.

Oh you were wandering off topic to talk about your misunderstandings of past conflicts so you can avoid discussing the clear patriotic and strong leadership of President Biden, as he stands by America’s allies, supports the right of democratic nations to defend themselves against illegal military invasion and obscene attacks while upholding international law.

 

 

On 10/15/2023 at 8:59 PM, Social Media said:

“We’re the United States of America for God’s sake, the most powerful nation in the history — not in the world, in the history of the world,” Biden said in a “60 Minutes” interview that aired Sunday. “We can take care of both of these and still maintain our overall international defense.”

The Last Days of Biden.

 

But who the fk is left to bring the smallest "neet noi" of credibility to this absurd statement?   Nero?  Caligula?  Napoleon? Clint Eastwood?

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? What's pathetic is that you can't acknowledge the reality of the huge role the Trump administration played in the downfall of Afghanistan. The withdrawal of 60% of American troops. And those remaining removed from the front lines. The release of almost 5000 Taliban prisoners. The withdrawal deadline of all US troops by May 1, 2021. 

Whatever Trump did or didn't do, Biden was in charge when they withdrew. He needs to own the chaotic way it was handled. 

 

Ultimately though, whether you like Trump or Biden (I like neither) it is the USA that is responsible for another overseas disaster that they should never have been involved in in the first place. Same as Vietnam. Same as Iraq. 

10 minutes ago, candide said:

So, practically, what should the U.S. have done, according to you? Stay in Afghanistan?

Or indeed any of the nations’ militaries that left at the same time.

 

 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh you were wandering off topic to talk about your misunderstandings of past conflicts so you can avoid discussing the clear patriotic and strong leadership of President Biden, as he stands by America’s allies, supports the right of democratic nations to defend themselves against illegal military invasion and obscene attacks while upholding international law.

 

 

So there wasn't a power vacuum left behind that led to women's rights being obliterated? 

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/03/afghanistan-un-experts-say-20-years-progress-women-and-girls-rights-erased

 

 

As a feminist I thought you'd care about that. Obviously not.