Coffee Supplies

[rafval]

I'm not familiar with this and haven't found much on the internet, but I heard some coffee suppliers will provide a machine etc if you use their products, anyone done this or know anything about it. I'm considering setting up a cafe, Im in a good spot but up a few flights of stairs, but its been done before and the rent is relatively cheap, have worked in cafes plenty but never set one up.

[GuestHouse]

There's a cafe on the Narklua/Pattaya road (diagonaly oposite the junction for Soi Wongaman - Soi 18) that also markets coffee and coffee machines.

Sorry I don't recal the name of the cafe/business, but I'd start by enquiring there.

[simcity]

Yes, most of the company will do that !

But they need to see if it is going to be profitable for them .

Quality & price could be a bit shaky at time if they loan you a machine, I prefer to have mine and do a tender once a month for the purchase !

Perhaps look at boncafe company , that is the one I know here.

http://www.boncafe.co.th/

Fantastic coffee bean to buy is in Vietnam , sad can not be found here !

[rafval]

Yes, most of the company will do that !

But they need to see if it is going to be profitable for them .

Quality & price could be a bit shaky at time if they loan you a machine, I prefer to have mine and do a tender once a month for the purchase !

Perhaps look at boncafe company , that is the one I know here.

http://www.boncafe.co.th/

Fantastic coffee bean to buy is in Vietnam , sad can not be found here !

Thanks, I contacted them, but it seems I could get a machine on ebay for half the price so I may do that and not be obliged to anyone, I just want to start very small scale, or I should say I have no choice

[thai4u]

important question, If you buy the coffee machine much cheaper will you need to pay the tax? and if you need to pay the tax how it can be done?

lets say coffee machine bought in ebay for 500 USD.

[blizzard]

coffee for thought.

i am not interested in walking up a few flights of stairs for a cupp of coffee!

rent cheap for a reason.

joe garagiola used to sell machines, in yr price range i think. is he still alive?

[thai4u]

blizzard, how your comment exactly related to the PM original question??

[sbk]

Verasu.com sells cappuccino and espresso makers, we bought ours their about 6 years ago and it is still working just fine. I think it costs abou 12,000-15,000. It was the cheapest one they had (La Pavoni) and I have absolutely no complaints.

[blizzard]

the purpose of obtaining machine is to make coffeee for sale.

are you interested in walking up many stairs to get one.

think outside the box guy. he thinking of making money. do you think its a good idea?

ill be positive here............lol. at least there r more skinny people in the world than thick ones who wont mind the climbing of stairs to get their caffeine shot.

Edited July 21, 2007 by blizzard

[rafval]

the purpose of obtaining machine is to make coffeee for sale.

are you interested in walking up many stairs to get one.

think outside the box guy. he thinking of making money. do you think its a good idea?

ill be positive here............lol. at least there r more skinny people in the world than thick ones who wont mind the climbing of stairs to get their caffeine shot.

thats a good point and something I have thought about and at face value would agree with, but on the other hand I have known of some very successful cafes that have been up several flights of stairs, dont know any in Bangkok tho I will admit

[thai4u]

the coffee machines in verasu are very limited.

For prices and service u better buy from bon cafe.

or another option is ebay..but no service of course and the tax thing still not clear to me..

good luck.

[listenup]

location, location, location

[rafval]

location, location, location

about 100m from nana, maybe I should be selling alcohol and girls instead

[simcity]

If I was you , I will buy a Saeco machine to start with .

If you business is good , later one you can look for a faemma / gaggia / rancillio .

If you worry about people interesting walking up a few flights, perhaps get a bus boy / girl and deliver to businesses around !

Go to them , if they do not want to came to you .

[thai4u]

English language question:

how is it called real coffee shop?

freshly roasted coffee OR brewed coffee?

[onethailand]

Boncafe will probably give you a machine to use if you commit to buy a certain amount of coffee from them per month.

Having said that, I don't like their equipment, and I think their coffee beans are not fresh enough.

Saeco machines are good for small operations, or for personal use.

Verasu's machines are generally designed for home use.

You need to determine how much coffee you think you can serve from your location. If you end up having to buy a brand-name machine, it will cost you in excess of 100K baht for a single group machine. I bought a two-group machine which cost 130K at the time but is much more expensive now - and my traffic did not even come close to expectations. I am looking for a different location now having closed down the old one.

Personally, I also wouldn't walk up stairs to buy a coffee - but it really depends on your location, if you're the only coffee in the area I could be interested. 100m from Nana, I would advise you to forget it, there are tons of different coffee vendors in the area at all prices from 20 baht upwards.

As for "real coffee shop" - well, all coffee is real coffee... but I would call a proper espresso place a real coffee shop. Most - nearly all - of them in Bangkok, however, do not make the espresso properly - especially the chains. You're going to have to find an individually-owned shop who uses the proper preparation methods. That's what I call real coffee.

[blizzard]

a man not afraid to tell it how it is........goodjob one.

i dont see whats so hard in seeing that most proposals that cum here dont have a chance!

any experience with thai massage shops one?

[rafval]

a man not afraid to tell it how it is........goodjob one.

i dont see whats so hard in seeing that most proposals that cum here dont have a chance!

any experience with thai massage shops one?

a chance of what? I will be interested to see if all the other coffee shops in the area start to disappear

[blizzard]

a chance to actually make more than thai wages.

hey if you happy to work your azz off and make thai wages be my guest, your lanlord wil be extremely happy.

that hamburger lady outside nana has a good product and does sell burgers but would the money she make make a farang happy.

those street vendors work very hard but i just dont see the cash flowing their way. and when they do make a sale the customer usually negotiated down to rock butt prices.

Edited July 26, 2007 by blizzard

[onethailand]

Rafval -

First of all, there's a Starbucks in Nana Square with a prime location. On the second floor, there is another coffee shop with Internet access that is all but dead even at much lower prices. And there are at least one or two restaurants in that complex alone that have coffee as well. I scouted that location myself before it opened and was not convinced it would work for either of my businesses.

On Sukhumvit near the post office is a Coffee World - which somehow has managed to last quite a few years. Across the street you've got O'Brians. In and around the nearby sois are plenty of vendors selling coffee to the locals at 20 baht.

You can't even find a niche there because there is competition at every price level. So unless the concept you have is unique, it's not even worth your time, unless you are only interested in making enough to survive.

Blizzard - sadly, though I like Thai Massage myself, I don't have any experience with running that kind of business and I somehow doubt that I would be able to compete with the hundreds of shops on or near Sukhumvit even though I have a pretty good idea of what's required.

[rafval]

a chance to actually make more than thai wages.

hey if you happy to work your azz off and make thai wages be my guest, your lanlord wil be extremely happy.

that hamburger lady outside nana has a good product and does sell burgers but would the money she make make a farang happy.

those street vendors work very hard but i just dont see the cash flowing their way. and when they do make a sale the customer usually negotiated down to rock butt prices.

ok, I agree then, altho keeping the landlord happy is not such a bad thing, I doubt i would be working my arse off tho, i think that would be the problem

[rafval]

Rafval -

First of all, there's a Starbucks in Nana Square with a prime location. On the second floor, there is another coffee shop with Internet access that is all but dead even at much lower prices. And there are at least one or two restaurants in that complex alone that have coffee as well. I scouted that location myself before it opened and was not convinced it would work for either of my businesses.

On Sukhumvit near the post office is a Coffee World - which somehow has managed to last quite a few years. Across the street you've got O'Brians. In and around the nearby sois are plenty of vendors selling coffee to the locals at 20 baht.

You can't even find a niche there because there is competition at every price level. So unless the concept you have is unique, it's not even worth your time, unless you are only interested in making enough to survive.

Blizzard - sadly, though I like Thai Massage myself, I don't have any experience with running that kind of business and I somehow doubt that I would be able to compete with the hundreds of shops on or near Sukhumvit even though I have a pretty good idea of what's required.

thats true, the niche as I see is in creating something with some atmosphere, perhaps there is not the market in nana for that, but personally I find starbucks and coffeeworld soul less, about as much fun a mcdonalds, its just a sterile enviroment where people can pretend they are back in farangland, coffee world at soi 7/1 is ok becuse its interesting to watch the ladies but since they sent them on their way it has hardly any customers at all. Selling coffee to thais wouldnt require a coffee machine or a cafe even but thats not what i had in mind.

basically I have a space I can use, Im renting it anyway because I live in part of it so all Im needing to do is cover my rent, if it got too busy I could find another space for it, if it didnt work I would have an espresso machine. I tried a similar thing before, not in Bangkok tho, and it turned out that the concept was popular, but as I said Im not really sure if there a market in Nana , more likely in Koh San Road I guess

[Macx]

Go for it rafval. Sounds good. We could always use another good cafe. I try to avoid Starbuck if possible and have always favored mom-n-pop places with real ambiance.

There was a tiny garden cafe in CM that I really liked. They didn't even have a big espresso machine, but they did a good trade in serving coffee in French presses.

[Gary A]

I have a confession to make. I drink two mugs of Red Cup Nescafe every morning. A Thai friend of mine has a coffee shop and uses the Boncafe beans, grinds them and brews individual cups. Once in a while when we have had enough beer he brews me a free cup before I head home. I don't think it tastes that great. My instant coffee tastes much better to me. Of course I have to lie to him and tell him it tastes great.

[onethailand]

If all you're really interested in is covering your rent and maybe making some pocket money, then I'd say go for it. I have space where my office is located and my equipment is mostly set up - I also figured that I might as well open it just to help offset the rent, but I haven't done so yet because frankly I'm a bit too busy and I don't feel like spending more money on decoration and equipment for a venture I know won't make much money. It's debatable whether such an investment would be worth it - furthermore, I'd have to sell at close to local prices and it's borderline whether or not this would be worthwhile.

Believe it or not, I like instant coffee too - Nescafe, or some 3-in-1 types, and for now that will satisfy me. But I can assure you that if coffee is properly ground, properly tamped and made with a decent espresso machine, it's way, way better than Nescafe.

If improperly made, as in most places I have tested, it is usually way too weak, or way too bitter. I've actually thrown away coffee like this before. And in my shop if it doesn't meet the right standards, it gets tossed into a separate pitcher which is used to make iced coffee where you'd hardly know the difference anyhow.

Besides, Boncafe's beans are not always fresh - sometimes been sitting around for months. The best coffee comes from beans which have been roasted and properly ground within a couple of weeks. Although some Japanese swear that the older the bean, the better the taste - there are places in Japan which serve coffee made from beans which are aged...

Starbucks is standard coffee - they standardize the only way possible - burn the bean. I'll drink it because it's not too bad for me but I know many people that can't stand it either.

You might want to search the secondhand sites such as thaisecondhand.com - I don't see any equipment there at the moment but some pops up from time to time. I would highly recommend a decent machine if you can get one for a good price, rather than relying on stuff from Verasu or Saeco, though a good Saeco makes a decent cup of coffee. I'm trying to remember where I saw them being sold... ah - I think it was the new Fenix Tower on Soi 31...

For coffee beans there are lots of sources, I usually use beans from P&F Coffee which cost about 390 per kilo - these are standard Thai beans from the North and are quite decent and inexpensive. You can get either pure Arabica or some with about 5% Robusta (all instant coffee comes from Robusta which has stronger taste and aroma but twice the caffeine. Good coffee houses use Arabica) to add a bit of aroma.

Alternately you can source beans from K9 at about the same prices, and they also the syrups and sauces. K9 is a major supplier to Chester's and Coffee World - all their machines are the same (Conti) like mine is. But don't buy the machines from them unless you have over 100K to spare - not worth it just to cover one's rent.

Don't buy beans from Aroma - those are tasteless. Aroma is what you'll find in many supermarkets.

If you have to go the all-in-one way, I think Boncafe is your only choice.

[voodoo]

try boncafe. They are professional. Good service. have good experience with them.

or italasia can be very helpful.