UK Double Taxation agreement with Thailand? How to prove Wise transfers are UK pension payments?

[CartagenaWarlock]

17 hours ago, Everyman said:

Why don’t you stop ordering people around and telling them what to do based on your value system and instead, respect theirs. 

Is it a joke? Nobody can order anybody to do anything. I'm just posting my opinion that Thailand immigration has come to the realization that these dollar-earning refugees must pay up taxes in Thailand because, with their income from their dollar-earning home country, they can't have a decent life in their home country and possibly won't find a bride either. If they could, they would not have travelled 10,000 miles to live in a foreign country like dollar-earning refugees and get a bride with limited communication skills in their native language and no exposure to their culture. Plain and simple. 

[Everyman]

4 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

Is it a joke? Nobody can order anybody to do anything. I'm just posting my opinion that Thailand immigration has come to the realization that these dollar-earning refugees must pay up taxes in Thailand because, with their income from their dollar-earning home country, they can't have a decent life in their home country and possibly won't find a bride either. If they could, they would not have travelled 10,000 miles to live in a foreign country like dollar-earning refugees and get a bride with limited communication skills in their native language and no exposure to their culture. Plain and simple. 

 

Show me on the doll where the foreigner touched you

[cliveshep]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:23 AM, CartagenaWarlock said:

................. I'm just posting my opinion that Thailand immigration has come to the realization that these dollar-earning refugees must pay up taxes in Thailand because, with their income from their dollar-earning home country, they can't have a decent life in their home country and possibly won't find a bride either. If they could, they would not have travelled 10,000 miles to live in a foreign country like dollar-earning refugees and get a bride with limited communication skills in their native language and no exposure to their culture. Plain and simple. 

You are not a very nice person are you? My wife is Thai, we lived in England, we married in England, we both worked in England, she is younger than me by a lot, we've been married for 12 years now and I am in my late 70's and she is the greatest, loving and caring plus at 40 beautiful and sexy. She of course speaks English very well, is a University Graduate, and highly competent. We were married in an English country church we attended regularly, and had our own house. We decided to sell our house and cars and move here when I retired because we love the country and it's lack of intrusion into our lives unlike the UK. Plus it is warm, no ice and snow.

 

We bought a nice detached house, fully air-conditioned although to be fair we limit it's use given how expensive it is and it is free of any financial encumbrances. It is in a quiet walled village, we got 2 old cars, one is a truck actually, and a motorbike so retirement is good for me as my darling spoils me rotten.

 

Frankly nothing you wrote applies to us and you are talking utter garbage, perhaps you have some personal issues here that have made you such a sourpuss?

[CartagenaWarlock]

4 hours ago, cliveshep said:

ou are not a very nice person are you? My wife is Thai, we lived in England, we married in England, we both worked in England,

You're dimwitted because nobody really talked about you specifically, and thanks for boasting your achievement in finding a Thai-British bride in your home country. But you still moved to Thailand. If not, please shut up. If yes, please pay the taxes. Plain and simple. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by CartagenaWarlock

[Celsius]

9 hours ago, cliveshep said:

You are not a very nice person are you? My wife is Thai, we lived in England, we married in England, we both worked in England, she is younger than me by a lot, we've been married for 12 years now and I am in my late 70's and she is the greatest, loving and caring plus at 40 beautiful and sexy. She of course speaks English very well, is a University Graduate, and highly competent. We were married in an English country church we attended regularly, and had our own house. We decided to sell our house and cars and move here when I retired because we love the country and it's lack of intrusion into our lives unlike the UK. Plus it is warm, no ice and snow.

 

We bought a nice detached house, fully air-conditioned although to be fair we limit it's use given how expensive it is and it is free of any financial encumbrances. It is in a quiet walled village, we got 2 old cars, one is a truck actually, and a motorbike so retirement is good for me as my darling spoils me rotten.

 

Frankly nothing you wrote applies to us and you are talking utter garbage, perhaps you have some personal issues here that have made you such a sourpuss?

 

He is correct tho. Thailand doesn't want penniless expats. They want them here short term and out. Expats like yourself will have to pay up.

 

I have the money, I just don't prefer to pay tax in a country that gives me nothing in return.

 

Like they still expect me to do 90 day reports like a mug while filing an income tax?

 

Never gonna happen.

 

 

 

 

[cliveshep]

On 11/30/2023 at 4:56 AM, CartagenaWarlock said:

You're dimwitted because nobody really talked about you specifically, and thanks for boasting your achievement in finding a Thai-British bride in your home country. But you still moved to Thailand. If not, please shut up. If yes, please pay the taxes. Plain and simple. 

Nobody talked about me specifically? You posted your vitriol on a thread in response to my original post yet your comments are supposed to be regarded as unrelated? Are you completely off your meds or is this normal behaviour for you, in which case do please bog-off elsewhere with your anti-expat comments which are unrelated to tax questions but simply put you are just pushing your uninformed personal beliefs. Thank you for your "service", please don't slam the door on your way out. Goodbye!

[The Cyclist]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:57 PM, Mike Lister said:

The poster is receiving a pension, that means he's over 65 years of age and is eligible to receive the over age 65 allowance of 190,000.

 

I am under 65 and have 2 pensions.

 

I have not long qualified for free entry to the nearest water park 

[Everyman]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:03 PM, CartagenaWarlock said:

So it's very simple. Just pay as Thais do because Thailand has given you shelter and a life to live, which your country was unable to do so. 

 

Most Thais don’t pay tax and the rest endeavor to pay at little as possible, just like everyone else in the world. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

5 hours ago, Everyman said:

Most Thais don’t pay tax and the rest endeavor to pay at little as possible, just like everyone else in the world. 

If most Thais don't pay for your level of earnings, you also won't pay. There is no dispute about that. You can't live in a land that has given you a life without paying taxes. There are always options. 

[OJAS]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:30 AM, foreverlomsak said:

In the UK DTA, Government (i.e. civil service and local government) Pensions are mentioned as being able to obtain a partial refund from HRMC if taxed in both countries

 

Article 19(2)(a) of the UK DTA actually states: "Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State."

 

This would therefore appear to mean that the Thai RD can go whistle for any tax on UK civil service pensions (except in the case of widow's pensions paid to Thai wives of deceased retired UK civil servants, as is made clear by 19(2)(b)).

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by OJAS

[foreverlomsak]

20 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

Article 19(2)(a) of the UK DTA actually states: "Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State."

 

This would therefore appear to mean that the Thai RD can go whistle for any tax on UK civil service pensions (except in the case of widow's pensions paid to Thai wives of deceased retired UK civil servants, as is made clear by 19(2)(b)).

 

There is an internal guidance document produced by HMRC (I think), that I took the info from I didn't save it, will try to find it again tomorrow.

[OJAS]

13 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

There is an internal guidance document produced by HMRC (I think), that I took the info from I didn't save it, will try to find it again tomorrow.

 

Is this the document you had in mind?

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

If so, there appears to be nothing, unless I'm missing something, which contradicts what I've said (or, more importantly, what the DTA in my perception says) under either the Government pensions section on page 3 or the specific Thailand heading on page 34.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by OJAS

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

Is this the document you had in mind?

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

 

If so, there appears to be nothing, unless I'm missing something, which contradicts what I've said (or, more importantly, what the DTA in my perception says) under either the Government pensions section on page 3 or the specific Thailand heading on page 34.

 

 

Yes, that the document I was looking at but some of the actual details appear to have changed, so I maybe had an earlier version of it or mixed up some of the details. I only have the state and private pensions so doesn't directly impact me.

[OJAS]

9 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Yes, that the document I was looking at but some of the actual details appear to have changed, so I maybe had an earlier version of it or mixed up some of the details. I only have the state and private pensions so doesn't directly impact me.

 

In any event, in order to seek refunds from HMRC so as to avoid double taxation it would appear that we would first have to complete a highly complex 13-page form including a residency certification which the RD would need to provide:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1119722/Double_Taxation_Treaty_Relief_Form_DT-Individual.pdf

 

No doubt the RD would require us to obtain a certified Thai translation at our expense of the HMRC form before they were prepared to entertain any possibility of providing the necessary residency certification. Not to mention how long this would take in a particular case would be anyone's guess, given that the RD would likely be swamped with countless numbers of this form from Brtish expats!

 

And, once the RD have finally done their thing, what's the betting that HMRC would then insist on a certified English translation of their certification, again at our expense?

 

Let's keep our fingers firmly crossed that it really doesn't all come to this! Not to mention that if it were to, many expats would inevitably (as I see things) need to start filing tax returns with HMRC for the first time ever (as well as with the RD).

 

[foreverlomsak]

22 hours ago, OJAS said:

Not to mention that if it were to, many expats would inevitably (as I see things) need to start filing tax returns with HMRC for the first time ever (as well as with the RD).

Looking very much that way, Thai submissions are mostly taken at face value from what I understand (also mine from years ago when I was working), hopefully they will do the same with expats now.