Thaksin Son Stonewalls Anti-corruption Examiners

[george]

Thaksin son stonewalls anti-corruption examiners

BANGKOK: -- Appearing only to state that he would not testify, Panthongtae Shinawatra, son of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, 'stonewalled' Wednesday instead of testifying to Thailand's Assets Examination Committee (AEC) probing missing profits from the Shin Corp share sale to Singapore's Temasek Holdings in early 2006.

The son of the former prime minister submitted a letter notifying the AEC that he would not testify before the panel, but only testify before the court.

Accompanied by his lawyers, Mr. Panthongtae declined to give comments to reporters before entering to the Office of the Auditor-General.

No supporters of the deposed premier turned up to give his moral support as in the past.

The testimony has earlier been scheduled on July 4 but later postponed due to Mr. Panthongtae's health problem.

AEC had earlier concluded that Mr. Panthongtae and his sister Ms. Pinthongta were liable for tax on a transaction last year in which the two bought 329.2 million Shin Corp shares from Ample Rich for one baht each and sold them the next day to Singapore's Temasek Holdings for Bt49.25 each.

Ample Rich is a holding company set up by Mr. Thaksin in the British Virgin Islands.

The AEC said the company was established as part of a scheme to avoid paying taxes on the sale. It was only discovered after the sale that both Thaksin children were owners of the firm.

Ms. Pinthongta earlier said she was unable to travel to Thailand and testify because she had to sit for a university examination in England. The panel had decided to postpone its hearing to August 24.

--TNA 2007-07-18

[Bill97]

I can not come because I do not feel good.

I came but all I can tell you is "I do not know."

I came but I will not talk to you. I will only talk to the court.

Fine get the case into court promptly. No need to wait for sis to come and say the same thing. The AEC better get it to court before all the "frozen money" is gone since it is not exactly frozen yet. I do not know exactly what powers the AEC has but it seems a lot of folks do not think it is much.

[adjan jb]

Those Shinawatras remind me of my students who suddenly get sick when they have to take a test or an exam.

[jumnien]

Why would they (Thaksins) cooperate with a military appointed commission when it was the military who committed the crime that installed the commission in the first place? If the Thaksins have an ounce of decency (debatable), they will wait until after an election to participate in any investigations or legal proceedings. An illegal mad dictator does not constitute a legitimate government, even if his first name is General.

[Tony Clifton]

Seems like they want to end up in jail and get rewarded with criminal records for the whole family, the diploma of choice for criminals.

[lazeeboy]

Seems like they want to end up in jail and get rewarded with criminal records for the whole family, the diploma of choice for criminals.

he's only doing what his fathers lawyers have told him to do ,the lawyers know what there doing

[Tony Clifton]

Seems like they want to end up in jail and get rewarded with criminal records for the whole family, the diploma of choice for criminals.

he's only doing what his fathers lawyers have told him to do ,the lawyers know what there doing

He wouldn't know what to say anyway. It was all mommy and daddy's idea. They wouldn't want to complicate their web of lies even further would they? There's already so much to remember.

I can see them in London every morning, like an episode of the Three Stogges, Thaksin with ruler in hand slapping a white board, doing intense sessions of rote learning with family and lawyers present.

"Noooo you numb skull, that would send me to jail for 15 years!"

Pook!

"Gnuk gnuk gnuk gnuk! "

"Why youuuu I oughta...!"

[John K]

I certainly have lost score here. Thaksin’s son is doing the right thing more or less by keeping his mouth shut, however that still does not free him of the obligation that he must pay the tax bill or does it. Somewhere along the way I thought I read that it was always Thaksin’s and his son was just a name without substance (no pun intended). From there it goes on and on with twist turns dead ends and so on. I certainly don’t envy the AEC in that they had to sort out this masterful pile of deceptions. However I am sure after a month of digging by the level of difficulty and non compliance that lead to giving them more power to go after the minister of the non compliant people, they knew in their heart it was Thaksin’s all along. And this is just one of many.

As someone suggested they should just take the money and be done with it, however the longer they wait the more interest accrues and the more they get. At least it is Thaksin’s decision on how long they will delay the inevitable.

Was the reason for today’s hearing at the request of Thaksin as a dely in payment or is the AEC looking for more evidence on other things? Truly I forgot what it was for.

[jEFFREYk44]

Why would they (Thaksins) cooperate with a military appointed commission when it was the military who committed the crime that installed the commission in the first place? If the Thaksins have an ounce of decency (debatable), they will wait until after an election to participate in any investigations or legal proceedings. An illegal mad dictator does not constitute a legitimate government, even if his first name is General.

Indeed, foolish to cooperate at this time, and by the way, I think on almost every "shady" business deal done by the former PM he requested government approval and received. Yes, people could have advised him it was not good but they did not. In government, one should avoid any appearance of impropriety. (thats wrongdoing to you guys/gals upcountry)

I feel the land deal is the most improper deal, bur he will get off because of the prior approvals

[Plus]

This non-cooperation strategy might backfire, there's a talk about upto six months jail time under NCCC laws for refusing to testify. In a couple of days AEC will decide how to react and it might not be what Shinawatras expected.

Blank refusal to accept AEC authority is plain stupid, it will only make their plight worse.

[hammered]

It is a shame the thousands put to death by the previous regime did not have the recourse to the justice system that even a military junta afford those they deposed. Then again nobody seems to care about a bunch of offed poor people.

[Mid]

It is a shame the thousands put to death by the previous regime did not have the recourse to the justice system that even a military junta afford those they deposed. Then again nobody seems to care about a bunch of offed poor people.

I hear you , nobody is rather a strong word though ...................

[younghusband]

It is a shame the thousands put to death by the previous regime did not have the recourse to the justice system that even a military junta afford those they deposed. Then again nobody seems to care about a bunch of offed poor people.

Sorry this just won't do.The illegal killings were certainly a crime which needs to be dealt with - though it probably won't be-, and Thaksin must take a prime responsibility for them.However the victims were not just a bunch of poor people.The majority were drug dealing scumbags who by any definition belonged behind bars.What is more most Thais of all social backgrounds supported the campaign given the huge cost in human misery the drug trade has brought to many communities.

None of the above suggests the killings were acceptable, and there were many "innocent" victims, local scores being settled etc.But unless the crime -for that is what it was -is put in context, comments like "a bunch of offed poor people" don't add any value to the discussion.

[blaze]

It is a shame the thousands put to death by the previous regime did not have the recourse to the justice system that even a military junta afford those they deposed. Then again nobody seems to care about a bunch of offed poor people.

The summary execution of poor people continues. Now, if the columnist in today's Post can be believed- it is Gen Sonthi's organization- the Thai Army- that is directly involved. And aside from the Moslem victims of these atrocities, there doesn't seem to be a lot of outrage among those who are currently crying loudest for Thaksin's head for his role in the drug wars. Or is an atrocity only an atrocity when Thaksin's fingerprints are on it?.

[Mid]

Or is an atrocity only an atrocity when Thaksin's fingerprints are on it?.

good question .

[Plus]

That belongs to another thread.

Atrocities commited by the army in the South are not as widely reported as they should be, but the context and standards are different - there's a war going there and it is expected to be a lot uglier than freezing bank accounts.

If you want to reform the army, now it's not a good time to start. The army is busy keeping the rest of the country from going at each others throats.

The country needs tanks to keep law and order in Bangkok, forget about South for a moment.

[samran]

Apparently Pantonthae stonewalled during his poltical science examination at Ramkamheng University. Didn't manage to answer a single question clearly.

[sibeymai]

Apparently Pantonthae stonewalled during his poltical science examination at Ramkamheng University. Didn't manage to answer a single question clearly.

I heard his dog ate his term paper, too.

[younghusband]

That belongs to another thread.

Atrocities commited by the army in the South are not as widely reported as they should be, but the context and standards are different - there's a war going there and it is expected to be a lot uglier than freezing bank accounts.

If you want to reform the army, now it's not a good time to start. The army is busy keeping the rest of the country from going at each others throats.

The country needs tanks to keep law and order in Bangkok, forget about South for a moment.

Er yes quite.But one could plausibly argue that it is the activities of the army leadership that have deepened the polarisation, and set the people at each others throats.Saviours of the nation indeed, actually self serving mediocrities.

Oh and by the way nobody believes tanks on the streets have anything to do with law and order except communist and fascist dictatorships, and a few flea blown banana states.

Certainly as far as the feudal/military/corporate elite it's more important to protect their vested interests (a polite way of describing their snouts in the trough) but there is a case - as far as the country's best interests are concerned - to tackle the problems of the South as the main priority.

[Plus]

Younghusband, I know you refuse to acknowledge that the country is united around junta's agenda - constitution referendum and elections, but let's put your irrational stubborness aside for a moment.

There was NO law prior to the coup and there was no organisation in the country that hadn't succumbed to corrupt politicians shamelessy breaking every rule that stood in their way. They were robbing the country in a broad daylight with absolute impunity. That had to be stoppped, and that's what Thai people couldn't do without the tanks.

Thanks to the army the Revenue Department is collecting taxes again and major corruption scandals are going to the courts, at least to set an example that "good times" are over and crooks should better watch their backs.

It won't stop corruption altogether but restoring at least some sense of justice was necessary.

The downside is that there's no one left to supervise the army and judging by the war in the South it needs a serious "paradigm shift".

[blaze]

...the country is united around junta's agenda

But from the previous post: "The country needs tanks to keep law and order in Bangkok".

[thedude]

Younghusband, I know you refuse to acknowledge that the country is united around junta's agenda - constitution referendum and elections, but let's put your irrational stubborness aside for a moment.

There was NO law prior to the coup and there was no organisation in the country that hadn't succumbed to corrupt politicians shamelessy breaking every rule that stood in their way. They were robbing the country in a broad daylight with absolute impunity. That had to be stoppped, and that's what Thai people couldn't do without the tanks.

Thanks to the army the Revenue Department is collecting taxes again and major corruption scandals are going to the courts, at least to set an example that "good times" are over and crooks should better watch their backs. rubbish. is there no end to your shameless melodramatic attempts to twist facts to your favour? tax collection was at record highs during thaksin's administration, in successive years too. and this was in no small part due to his success in cutting down the underground economy and enforcing tax collection.

It won't stop corruption altogether but restoring at least some sense of justice was necessary.

The downside is that there's no one left to supervise the army and judging by the war in the South it needs a serious "paradigm shift".

[Bill97]

Why don't you guys open a few political threads for your issues?

[Mid]

rubbish. is there no end to your shameless melodramatic attempts to twist facts to your favour? tax collection was at record highs during thaksin's administration, in successive years too. and this was in no small part due to his success in cutting down the underground economy and enforcing tax collection.

THAILAND FY06 GOVT REVENUE 1.5% BELOW TARGET

Thai Press Reports

October 12, 2006

259 words

Section: Economy - FY06 govt revenue: 1.5% below target, 5.9%YoY growth The government ended FY06 with revenue collection of Bt1.34trn, 1.5% or Bt20bn below target. The shortfall mainly came from lower-than-expected excise and import tax collection as well as high VAT refunds. On a yearly basis, government revenue rose 5.9% from FY05, much...

alacarte.lexisnexis.com

just one of many ........................

Edited July 19, 2007 by Mid

[thedude]

rubbish. is there no end to your shameless melodramatic attempts to twist facts to your favour? tax collection was at record highs during thaksin's administration, in successive years too. and this was in no small part due to his success in cutting down the underground economy and enforcing tax collection.

THAILAND FY06 GOVT REVENUE 1.5% BELOW TARGET

Thai Press Reports

October 12, 2006

259 words

Section: Economy - FY06 govt revenue: 1.5% below target, 5.9%YoY growth The government ended FY06 with revenue collection of Bt1.34trn, 1.5% or Bt20bn below target. The shortfall mainly came from lower-than-expected excise and import tax collection as well as high VAT refunds. On a yearly basis, government revenue rose 5.9% from FY05, much...

alacarte.lexisnexis.com

just one of many ........................

you guys have really stepped into this one now. there really IS some sort of organised effort to fudge the truth and lie to readers.

These are Revenue Department published statistics :

Fiscal Year 2003 Budget 538 billion Actual 627 billion 15.27% increase on FY 2002

Fiscal Year 2004 Budget 608 billion Actual 772 billion 23.03% increase on FY 2003

Fiscal Year 2005 Budget 820 billion Actual 937 billion 21.24% increase on FY 2004 (tsunami year)

Fiscal Year 2006 Budget 1,008 billion Actual 1,057 billion 12.81% increase on FY 2005 (coup year)

Tax revenue effectively doubled during Thaksin's administration. Shame on you.

Edited July 19, 2007 by thedude

[younghusband]

Younghusband, I know you refuse to acknowledge that the country is united around junta's agenda - constitution referendum and elections, but let's put your irrational stubborness aside for a moment.

There was NO law prior to the coup and there was no organisation in the country that hadn't succumbed to corrupt politicians shamelessy breaking every rule that stood in their way. They were robbing the country in a broad daylight with absolute impunity. That had to be stoppped, and that's what Thai people couldn't do without the tanks.

Thanks to the army the Revenue Department is collecting taxes again and major corruption scandals are going to the courts, at least to set an example that "good times" are over and crooks should better watch their backs.

It won't stop corruption altogether but restoring at least some sense of justice was necessary.

The downside is that there's no one left to supervise the army and judging by the war in the South it needs a serious "paradigm shift".

Ignoring the rather tired debating rhetoric- "irrational stubborness" etc , do you seriously believe the country is united around the junta's agenda? If so I don't really know how to address your arguments.All I can say is that my impression is totally different.As time goes on I think the current political impasse will be seen in some kind of perspective, and this junta will be perceived as just an unpleasant memory in Thailand's one step backwards two steps forward progress to a just society.

I won't deal with your tax point as others have already refuted it comprehensively, and I wouldn't want to compound your embarassment.On corruption Thaksin's administration was no more corrupt than many of its predecessors, and in some ways was cleaner.The real criticism was that Thaksin unfairly changed the rules to favour his business interests and more pertinently perhaps trod on the toes of established players.

But corruption was far worse in the past for example under Sarit who left an estate of $150 million.Answers on a postcard please as to who said of corupt politicians in the 1960's "If all corrupt persons were executed, there would not be many people left.I am at my wit's end to know how to remedy it". Chatichai was notorious for his corruption as was Kriengsak.Ask Sukhumbhand Paribatra what happened as a lecturer at Chula when he criticised the massive army corruption in 1988.He had to resign as a foreign policy advisor, subsequently composing a satyrical 10 commandments for Thai poltics, one of which was, "Thou shalt not steal from the rich, because they are powerful. and shall steal only from the poor, for they are powerless.."

I could go on with countless other examples.The point is that it is sheer dishonesty to suggest that corruption reached an apogee under Thaksin.I know the Bangkok upper middle class say this (you might be rather surprised at my circle) but it isn't really true.There were certainly abuses but the scale is grotesquely magnified by Thaksin's political enemies, and those who fear and resent the forces he released.

[Plus]

Thedude, I was talking about Shin sale taxes, not the overall Revenue Dept work. It was an absurd situation when taxmen argued with lawers AGAINST collecting taxes. Like I said, there was no law and justice in the country, or rather the law served Thaksin, not the people.

Blaze, the country undoubtedly wants elections, and tanks were needed to keep Thaksin and TRT at bay as they were quite capable or ruining any chance of return to normalcy. Not so much after court rulings, the worst is over, but still...

Can you imagine what would happend if the junta suddenly gave up, restored 1997 consitution and let Thaksin and TRT to run in the elections? I can't even begin to image what people reaction would be, analysts reaction would be, what market reaction would be. If that is what some people call democracy I don't want any of it.

Let the generals stay their course and step back after elections.

[chachachacha]

It is a shame the thousands put to death by the previous regime did not have the recourse to the justice system that even a military junta afford those they deposed. Then again nobody seems to care about a bunch of offed poor people.

Sorry this just won't do.The illegal killings were certainly a crime which needs to be dealt with - though it probably won't be-, and Thaksin must take a prime responsibility for them.However the victims were not just a bunch of poor people.The majority were drug dealing scumbags who by any definition belonged behind bars.What is more most Thais of all social backgrounds supported the campaign given the huge cost in human misery the drug trade has brought to many communities.

None of the above suggests the killings were acceptable, and there were many "innocent" victims, local scores being settled etc.But unless the crime -for that is what it was -is put in context, comments like "a bunch of offed poor people" don't add any value to the discussion.

[Plus]

...The point is that it is sheer dishonesty to suggest that corruption reached an apogee under Thaksin.

This has been addressed numerous times already - according to Thais it had indeed reached an apogee under Thaksin.

Where do you get this stuff - Thais do not want elections (junta's agenda), Thaksin wasn't unacceptably corrupt.

It's pretty much like arguing against global warning.

[younghusband]

...The point is that it is sheer dishonesty to suggest that corruption reached an apogee under Thaksin.

This has been addressed numerous times already - according to Thais it had indeed reached an apogee under Thaksin.

Where do you get this stuff - Thais do not want elections (junta's agenda), Thaksin wasn't unacceptably corrupt.

It's pretty much like arguing against global warning.

I'm sorry but it just doesn't wash when you, or I for that matter, say Thais think this or that.It must be prefaced by something like "in my opinion" and then supported by properly evidenced arguments.

Thais (in my opinion!) do of course want elections and it is legerdemain for you to define the junta's agenda in this prescriptive and narrow way.The junta's agenda was to stop the social and political movement engineered by Thaksin in its tracks, and to control the administration which will eventually replace it.

Actually I do think Thaksin was unacceptably corrupt.The point I was making is that to put it at its most uncontroversial, he was no worse than many of his predecessors.Corruption was seized on by his political enemies as the weapon to neuter him and the forces he represented.They might succeed in the former but will fail in the latter for to use the phrase which always irritates the feudalists and their lackeys, the genie is out of the bottle now.