Hamas: Oct 7 was 'necessary, normal response' to 'Israeli conspiracies'

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Likud is a charter to remove all Palestinians from the river to the sea.

 

@ozimoron

 

Nope.

[WDSmart]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah, as I said earlier, you have a very foggy notion of things.

 

The 'list' you posted above is the same idiosyncratic nonsense you've posted on past topics.

Since enough time was wasted on explaining to you how ignorant and wrong what you posted is, I see no reason to repeat it again.

 

How you 'define' things is irrelevant.

Morch... Well, then, enjoy your comfortable stroll through the fog and your fantasies of believing you have ever explained to me how "ignorant and wrong" are things that I've posted. You've never done that. You've only declared they are with no explanation other than insults. I have always been the one doing the explaining, which, of course, has come to no avail. You may not agree with my explanations, but at least I give them.

And, when I post comments, of course, how I define things is relevant. If you don't understand the terms I use or how I use them, you'll never be able to explain your objections to them.

I think my last declaration in my last message was the most appropriate in "explaining" my take on the subject of this entire post. I believe a good analogy to the activities of the Zionists (right-wing Israelis) toward the Palestinians is the activities of the "settlers" (who later formed the USA, my home country) toward the American Indians. They moved forward on them, took their land, killed their people, committed merciless atrocities, and forced those who survived into reservations, which they guarded. During that time, any successful military action the settlers took against the Indians was called a "victory." Any successful military action the Indians took against the settlers was called a "massacre." 

I hope you can stick your head out of the fog long enough to understand what the terms I've used above mean with respect to the Hebrew/Jewish/Israeli/Zionist actions against the Arab/Muslim/Palestinian/Hamas. 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Again, you can't have your cake and eat it!

 

You don't want a one state solution - this would lead to the destruction of Israel as we know it.

You don't endorse a two state solution because you support the river to the sea analogy as said by the Israeli far right government.

 

So this must mean the ethnic cleansing or genocide of the Palestinian people, right? Where else would they go?

 

But I do endorse a two-state solution. Where did you get the notion that I do not? Where did I 'support' the Israeli far-right policies? You're making stuff up, or your don't really follow posts and topics.

 

Not having a a state does not equate with the destruction of a people. The Palestinians do not have a state for decades now, and they are not anywhere near destroyed as a people.

 

You're posting inflammatory nonsense.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Morch... Well, then, enjoy your comfortable stroll through the fog and your fantasies of believing you have ever explained to me how "ignorant and wrong" are things that I've posted. You've never done that. You've only declared they are with no explanation other than insults. I have always been the one doing the explaining, which, of course, has come to no avail. You may not agree with my explanations, but at least I give them.

And, when I post comments, of course, how I define things is relevant. If you don't understand the terms I use or how I use them, you'll never be able to explain your objections to them.

I think my last declaration in my last message was the most appropriate in "explaining" my take on the subject of this entire post. I believe a good analogy to the activities of the Zionists (right-wing Israelis) toward the Palestinians is the activities of the "settlers" (who later formed the USA, my home country) toward the American Indians. They moved forward on them, took their land, killed their people, committed merciless atrocities, and forced those who survived into reservations, which they guarded. During that time, any successful military action the settlers took against the Indians was called a "victory." Any successful military action the Indians took against the settlers was called a "massacre." 

I hope you can stick your head out of the fog long enough to understand what the terms I've used above mean with respect to the Hebrew/Jewish/Israeli/Zionist actions against the Arab/Muslim/Palestinian/Hamas. 

 

Your silly points were addressed, in detail and length on past topics. You can deny them, lie about it not happening or whatever. Not wasting the time again on your nonsense.

 

This topic is not about your personal warped definitions, which rely on shake foundations, to say the least.

 

You have very little knowledge, and a whole lot of opinions.

[Brickleberry]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

But I do endorse a two-state solution. Where did you get the notion that I do not? Where did I 'support' the Israeli far-right policies? You're making stuff up, or your don't really follow posts and topics.

 

Not having a a state does not equate with the destruction of a people. The Palestinians do not have a state for decades now, and they are not anywhere near destroyed as a people.

 

You're posting inflammatory nonsense.

 

Well perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on posts between other members without reading them.

 

Jingthing said exactly those things, and you were defending this person's view in your post. It would only be logical to assume that you agree with the views that this person addressed. 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Well perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on posts between other members without reading them.

 

Jingthing said exactly those things, and you were defending this person's view in your post. It would only be logical to assume that you agree with the views that this person addressed. 

 

Unlike you, I actually read posts (that's why I don't have to apologize later for posting rubbish...). I was addressing what you posted. You can try and obfuscate your hyperbole, but it would be awkward. Easier to start a diversion about who posted what to whom, eh?

 

No, what would be logical is to read my post and address it, rather than assume that everyone who comments shares the same views.

[Brickleberry]

 

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@ozimoron

 

Nope.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/

 

Quote

The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform

 

During a speech before the United Nations General Assembly on September 22, 2023, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holds up a map that shows Israel stretching “from the river to the sea.”

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/

 

 

During a speech before the United Nations General Assembly on September 22, 2023, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holds up a map that shows Israel stretching “from the river to the sea.”

 

 

And this after complaining others (myself) do not read posts?

 

Here's the post I was responding to:

 

Quote

Likud is a charter to remove all Palestinians from the river to the sea.

 

Israeli sovereignty does not equate with 'remove all Palestinians'.

20% of Israel's citizens are Palestinians (or if some prefer, Arab Israelis, whatever).

West Bank Palestinians live under Israel rule, for decades now - no real move to oust them.

 

 

[Brickleberry]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And this after complaining others (myself) do not read posts?

 

Here's the post I was responding to:

 

 

Israeli sovereignty does not equate with 'remove all Palestinians'.

20% of Israel's citizens are Palestinians (or if some prefer, Arab Israelis, whatever).

West Bank Palestinians live under Israel rule, for decades now - no real move to oust them.

 

 

 

You are ignoring what is happening on the ground. Palestinians in the West Bank have been forcibly removed for decades now. Slowly but surely, they are being ousted.

 

The 20% of Arab Israelis you reference face discrimination, poverty and are confined to certain districts in Israel to ensure they cannot become the majority and win more seats in the Knesset. They are second class citizens and according to the law passed in 2018, they cannot call Israel their home. It is home to the Jewish people only.

 

So which is it? A two state solution, or just Israel?

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

 

The 20% of Arab Israelis you reference face discrimination, poverty and are confined to certain districts in Israel

 

  Do you have a source for that info ?

I always  thought that Palestinian Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Israelis .

Can you provide a source to what you claim , that Palestine Arab Israelis are restricted in their movement in Israel ?

[Nick Carter icp]

13 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

. They are second class citizens and according to the law passed in 2018, they cannot call Israel their home. It is home to the Jewish people only.

 

 

 

  That just isn't true 

[Brickleberry]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Do you have a source for that info ?

I always  thought that Palestinian Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Israelis .

Can you provide a source to what you claim , that Palestine Arab Israelis are restricted in their movement in Israel ?

 

They have some of the same rights. They can vote, but they can't choose where to live.

 

Housing committees control who can live in their community and if they are not Jewish they are not allowed to live there.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-07-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/in-netanyahus-israel-if-youre-not-jewish-youre-not-accepted/00000189-938f-d1ae-a38b-f7af58640000

 

Discrimination and apartheid

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56898864

[Brickleberry]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  That just isn't true 

Yes, it is:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636

Israel adopts divisive law that declares only Jews have the right of self-determination

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

They have some of the same rights. They can vote, but they can't choose where to live.

 

Housing committees control who can live in their community and if they are not Jewish they are not allowed to live there.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-07-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/in-netanyahus-israel-if-youre-not-jewish-youre-not-accepted/00000189-938f-d1ae-a38b-f7af58640000

 

 

 

 

   Your link says this 

 

"It turns out that when it comes to excluding Arabs, we really are brothers. This week the Knesset passed an expansion of the so-called Admissions Committees Law, enacted in 2010 to circumvent a High Court of Justice ruling prohibiting cooperative communities from leasing land only to Jews. The amendment was sponsored by lawmakers Yitzhak Kroizer of Otzma Yehudit, Simcha Rothman of Religious Zionism and Sharren Haskel of the National Unity Party, and was approved on the second and third votes by 42 MKs, with only 11 MKs opposing (Noa Shpigel, Haaretz, July"

 

   Which doesn't back up your claim 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Yes, it is:

 

   Can you write something yourself ?

You keep sending me links to open and I have to keep opening them replying to the links  , which quite often don't contain the info that you claim .

   Write your own words and use links to verify your claims 

Can you back up your claim that Israeli Palestinians  restricted  to where they can live in Israel ?

[WDSmart]

26 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Do you have a source for that info ?

I always  thought that Palestinian Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Israelis .

Can you provide a source to what you claim , that Palestine Arab Israelis are restricted in their movement in Israel ?

IMO, the Palestinians Nick Catrter icp was referring to were the Palestinians confined to the areas called Gaza and The West Bank. 

[Brickleberry]

21 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   Your link says this 

 

"It turns out that when it comes to excluding Arabs, we really are brothers. This week the Knesset passed an expansion of the so-called Admissions Committees Law, enacted in 2010 to circumvent a High Court of Justice ruling prohibiting cooperative communities from leasing land only to Jews. The amendment was sponsored by lawmakers Yitzhak Kroizer of Otzma Yehudit, Simcha Rothman of Religious Zionism and Sharren Haskel of the National Unity Party, and was approved on the second and third votes by 42 MKs, with only 11 MKs opposing (Noa Shpigel, Haaretz, July"

 

   Which doesn't back up your claim 

 

 

Yes, it does! Do you not know what the law refers to?

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

IMO, the Palestinians Nick Catrter icp was referring to were the Palestinians confined to the areas called Gaza and The West Bank. 

 

   Oh, those are not Israeli citizens though and of course they cannot live freely in Israel

Brickleback claimed that Israeli Arabs are restricted in their movement in Israel  

I am waiting for him to back up that claim 

 

[Brickleberry]

21 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Can you write something yourself ?

You keep sending me links to open and I have to keep opening them replying to the links  , which quite often don't contain the info that you claim .

   Write your own words and use links to verify your claims 

Can you back up your claim that Israeli Palestinians  restricted  to where they can live in Israel ?

I already did that, and sent you the link

[Brickleberry]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Oh, those are not Israeli citizens though and of course they cannot live freely in Israel

Brickleback claimed that Israeli Arabs are restricted in their movement in Israel  

I am waiting for him to back up that claim 

 

Restricted to where they LIVE

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

You have very little knowledge, and a whole lot of opinions.

...and one more thing, Morch... These are FORUMS. According to Merriam-Webster, a forum is:
 

"a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly"

That, to me, means they are places where you are welcome to express your opinions. You don't have to agree with my opinion. That's okay. You don't even have to explain why you disagree and debate is okay, but you shouldn't try to silence me with derogatory remarks. That won't work. (Unless you're @RImmer )

Edited January 24 by WDSmart

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Brickleberry said:

I already did that, and sent you the link

 

   Sorry , I cannot keep just opening the links that you send 

Can you write it yourself and provide a link to verify your claims ?

Then I can read your words and reply to you , rather than me talking to a link

Thanks 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

'they' in my sentence was referring to the Palestinian people, not Hamas.

 

Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. They can be an abhorrent terrorist organization, but they can also be an oppressed people fighting for the right to self determination. Their methods, charter etc are disgusting, and they can not be allowed to continue.

 

The same can be said of the Israeli government. It is a radical right wing government with its own agenda - to push as many Palestinians out of the West bank and grab as much land as they can. To prop up Hamas and deny the Palestinians any chance of an independent state - from the river to the sea (Bibi's own words). Israel may be a democracy, but it is also a racist, apartheid state.

 

Don't agree with me? Then why not listen to senior Jewish Israelis who say the same thing:

https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/05/amnesty-israel-apartheid-israeli-politicians-agree

 

Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. 

 

Another post where you out yourself:

 

Rape isn't "Freedom fighting"
Murder isn't "Freedom fighting"
Mutilation isn't "Freedom fighting"
Taking hostages isn't "Freedom fighting"

Hamas, are, not, Freedom, fighters.

 

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1749768459997622782

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. 

 

Another post where you out yourself:

 

Rape isn't "Freedom fighting"
Murder isn't "Freedom fighting"
Mutilation isn't "Freedom fighting"
Taking hostages isn't "Freedom fighting"

Hamas, are, not, Freedom, fighters.

 

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1749768459997622782

 

 

bombing kids isn't self defense.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

bombing kids isn't self defense.

 

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. 

 

Another post where you out yourself:

 

Rape isn't "Freedom fighting"
Murder isn't "Freedom fighting"
Mutilation isn't "Freedom fighting"
Taking hostages isn't "Freedom fighting"

Hamas, are, not, Freedom, fighters.

 

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1749768459997622782

 

 

[Brickleberry]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. 

 

Another post where you out yourself:

 

Rape isn't "Freedom fighting"
Murder isn't "Freedom fighting"
Mutilation isn't "Freedom fighting"
Taking hostages isn't "Freedom fighting"

Hamas, are, not, Freedom, fighters.

 

Outing myself? Here is what I actually said. It is against forum rules to select part of someones quote to make your disgusting accusation. I clearly said everything they did was abhorrent, and can not be allowed to continue:

 

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. They can be an abhorrent terrorist organization, but they can also be an oppressed people fighting for the right to self determination. Their methods, charter etc are disgusting, and they can not be allowed to continue.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Brickleberry said:

Outing myself? Here is what I actually said. It is against forum rules to select part of someones quote to make your disgusting accusation. I clearly said everything they did was abhorrent, and can not be allowed to continue:

 

 

yep out yourself again, I know what you said I quoted your post in full and then quoted it again......lol

[Nick Carter icp]

37 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Yes, it is:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636

Israel adopts divisive law that declares only Jews have the right of self-determination

 

   See what I mean ?

You sent me a link and I had to disable a few things to be able to open the link and when I opened the link, the page said

 

Something Went Wrong

 

Access to NBC News is temporarily unavailable. The problem will be resolved as soon as possible.

 

 

 

   I am not going to waste my time and open any more links from you 

 

[Brickleberry]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

yep out yourself again, I know what you said I quoted your post in full and then quoted it again......lol

 

You quoted me, and took one part of the paragraph out of context. Poor form indeed. Can't debate any substance, so you decide to sling some mud instead. To the world at large (and in my opinion) they are a terrorist organization. To many Palestinians, themselves, Arab nations and governments, they are freedom fighters. How is that controversial?

 

What a lame troll, I will not respond anymore to your drivel.

[Brickleberry]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   See what I mean ?

You sent me a link and I had to disable a few things to be able to open the link and when I opened the link, the page said

 

Something Went Wrong

 

Access to NBC News is temporarily unavailable. The problem will be resolved as soon as possible.

 

 

 

   I am not going to waste my time and open any more links from you 

 

 

Doesn't seem worthwhile anyway.

 

I sent you three different links to back up my earlier claims, and you couldn't even understand what you were reading... claiming it didn't back up my point when it quite clearly does. Why would I bother responding anymore to someone who clearly does not understand what is written in black and white? Goodbye.