Land title chanot question.

[surreybloke]

My uk lady friend has an issue as posted previously.    We have found a a decent lawyer as suggested by a member on this forum .     I meeting up with the lawyer in a few weeks.  Essentially there are 3 sisters and only one with children .  One of the children has found a male friend  who is trying to move in and take up permanent residence.      Essentially we are trying to split the land and come to some sort of arrangement with the house.  .     

 

In the mean time can someone help me out with a couple of questions.  Her family  have land and a house but not on the same plot.   There is a name on the house book.   We are advised to get a copy of the Chanot.   

What is the house book if it is not a proof of ownership.    

Also what are those metal signs I see in the countryside  with what look like lists of names.   Are they lists of land occupancy or ownership or something else.     

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, surreybloke said:

 We are advised to get a copy of the Chanot.   

Who's advising you?

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, surreybloke said:

Essentially we are trying to split the land and come to some sort of arrangement with the house.  .     

All people named on the land papers need to go to the land office and get it logged there as to which sister has what.

Why a need for a lawyer?

Edited January 26 by IvorBiggun2

[stupidfarang]

The Chanot is the paper you need, it shows ownership, the signs you see around villages I think have the residents names on but am sure they are out of date and would have no legal basis

 

[IvorBiggun2]

58 minutes ago, stupidfarang said:

The Chanot is the paper you need

What if it has no 'Chanote' title and is Sor Por Kor title?

 

Overview of the main land titles issued by the Thailand Land Department:

Sor Kor 1 (S.K. 1) | Nor. Sor. Song (N.S. 2) | Nor. Sor. Saam (N.S. 3) | Nor. Sor. Saam Gor (N.S. 3 G.) | Nor. Sor. Saam Khor (N.S. 3 K.) | Nor. Sor. Ha (N.S. 5) | Nor Sor Si Jor (N.S.4.J) | LAND DOCUMENTS ISSUED BY OTHER DEPARTMENTS Sor. Por. Gor. 4-01 (S.P.G. 4-01) | Sor. Tor. Gor. (S.T.G.) | Por. Bor. Tor. 5 (P.B.T. 5) | Nor. Kor. 3 (N.K. 3) | Gor. Sor. Nor. 5 (G.S.N. 5)

 

CHANOTE: from the land title documents issued by the Thailand Land Department only the Nor. Sor. 4 Jor or Chanote is a true land ownership title deed.

Edited January 26 by IvorBiggun2

[stupidfarang]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What if it has no 'Chanote' title and is Sor Por Kor title?

 

Overview of the main land titles issued by the Thailand Land Department:

Sor Kor 1 (S.K. 1) | Nor. Sor. Song (N.S. 2) | Nor. Sor. Saam (N.S. 3) | Nor. Sor. Saam Gor (N.S. 3 G.) | Nor. Sor. Saam Khor (N.S. 3 K.) | Nor. Sor. Ha (N.S. 5) | Nor Sor Si Jor (N.S.4.J) | LAND DOCUMENTS ISSUED BY OTHER DEPARTMENTS Sor. Por. Gor. 4-01 (S.P.G. 4-01) | Sor. Tor. Gor. (S.T.G.) | Por. Bor. Tor. 5 (P.B.T. 5) | Nor. Kor. 3 (N.K. 3) | Gor. Sor. Nor. 5 (G.S.N. 5)

 

CHANOTE: from the land title documents issued by the Thailand Land Department only the Nor. Sor. 4 Jor or Chanote is a true land ownership title deed.

Thats another story, I have heard not to go below Nor Sor 3, why I do not know.

[IvorBiggun2]

Why are you getting involved in something you have little knowledge about? It's something the 3 sisters need to sort out between themselves at the Land Registry. I don't see a need for a lawyer as Thais buy and sell land all the time without the use of one.

[MangoKorat]

You're British right?  Then the Chanotte is the same as we call Title Deeds and details the ownership plus any liens, charges or restrictions pertaining to the property. The House Book (Tabien Baan) simply details the people registered as living there - it is not in any way a proof of ownership.

 

A Chanotte title has been officially measured and located by GPS with boundary markers installed.  I believe (not 100%on this), that a Nor Sor 3 Gor is also officially measured but has not been fully confirmed and located by GPS and the boundary markers installed.  A Nor Sor 3 Gor can be converted to a Chanotte and is usually classed as 'waiting for this' but it can be a lengthy process - although I think its sometimes possible to 'speed' that up with a little 'sweetener'.

 

Both are held as legal title and banks will normally accept them as surety.

[surreybloke]

7 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why are you getting involved in something you have little knowledge about? It's something the 3 sisters need to sort out between themselves at the Land Registry. I don't see a need for a lawyer as Thais buy and sell land all the time without the use of one.

 

Ivorbiggun2    many thanks for the links .   Some detailed reading there .   Incidentally  I am looking at giving the gf some money to the gf and buying    a small plot next to the main house .  Then looking at a lease or userfruct   or maybe some sort of lease and superficie   (spelt wrong i guess)   .   

The lawyer issue is that the three sisters are not all together and in agreement.   The sister with grown up child is ok but seems to ok with daughter bf  moving in .   The two other sisters are against this.   My worry is that as the sisters get old and start dying the daughter and male friend maybe husband will take over .   I need a lawyer to encourage them to make adequate wills and consider various contingencies.

 

To be honest I am not convinced the three sisters have that much knowledge either.         

         

[rwill]

The house book does not show ownership.  A chanote does that.

[jcmj]

The owners name(s) will be listed on the Chanote and if there was a will from one listed then you would have to follow their wishes. The names in the blue book, as stated, just show who resides there. 

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, jcmj said:

The owners name(s) will be listed on the Chanote and if there was a will from one listed then you would have to follow their wishes. The names in the blue book, as stated, just show who resides there. 

Although I have a yellow house book and a pink card, I didn't realize my name is in the Blue book until I was selling a car yesterday. You live and learn.

[brianthainess]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:36 AM, surreybloke said:

My uk lady friend has an issue as posted previously.

Sorry but how can she own land?

[khunPer]

On 1/26/2024 at 1:36 AM, surreybloke said:

In the mean time can someone help me out with a couple of questions.  Her family  have land and a house but not on the same plot.   There is a name on the house book.   We are advised to get a copy of the Chanot.   

What is the house book if it is not a proof of ownership.    

Also what are those metal signs I see in the countryside  with what look like lists of names.   Are they lists of land occupancy or ownership or something else. 

Not sure what you mean with "have land and a house but not on the same plot".

 

"Chanot" is a nickname for the Nor Sor 4 title-deed, which is the only title deed with full ownership. There are numerous titles for deeds, some of them are only for right to use the land for farming (a post above has shown names).

 

A house book – also called the Blue House Book – is NOT proof of ownership, it just shows the house number and address, and who is registered as living at that address. One person will be registered as "host" – which can be the house owner – that person can allow other people to be registered on the address in the house book. Foreigners are listed in a separate Yellow House Book.

 

I'm not aware of what "metal signs" you mention.

[surreybloke]

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Sorry but how can she own land?

sorry  uk based thai lady