Morch Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: All your points above, except (b), are either impossible (a) or would be unacceptable to Hamas. I know they were discussed on the media and on this forum. I just think they will not be willingly accepted by Hamas. Adopting Hamas positions as legit is a choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 minutes ago, Morch said: Adopting Hamas positions as legit is a choice. I wasn't "adopting Hamas positions." And I wasn't inferring they were "legit." I was simply stating what I thought they would be if you were to present your four conditions to them. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I wasn't "adopting Hamas positions." And I wasn't inferring they were "legit." I was simply stating what I thought they would be if you were to present your four conditions to them. But you think they should continue holding hostages, nice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: But you think they should continue holding hostages, nice. I do think they should negotiate a release of the hostages, but I think that needs to be part of a much larger agreement. Here is a link to my more detailed proposal that I posted yesterday, which includes my proposal for a phased release of the hostages. http://www.billsmart.com/writing/opinion/Israel_Palestine/Israel_Palestine Resolution v1.htm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bkk Brian Posted February 4 Popular Post Share Posted February 4 8 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said: Missed the chance to edit, to busy watching the London rally for the Ceasefire in Gaza. That's better for you, I hope. When are Zionist Israeli's going to get that you can maybe control some governments, press and most of social media but controlling the rest of Humanity, not possible. to busy watching the London rally for the Ceasefire in Gaza. https://twitter.com/DouglasKMurray/status/1753789039025553655 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: to busy watching the London rally for the Ceasefire in Gaza. https://twitter.com/DouglasKMurray/status/1753789039025553655 And, just what were the conditions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bkk Brian Posted February 4 Popular Post Share Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, WDSmart said: And, just what were the conditions? Probably not inline with your Hamas proposal that you published 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff the Chef Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: to busy watching the London rally for the Ceasefire in Gaza. https://twitter.com/DouglasKMurray/status/1753789039025553655 Thousands join pro-Palestine marches in London and Edinburgh Demonstrations first in UK since UN’s international court of justice ordered Israel to ensure acts of genocide not committed in Gaza https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/03/hundreds-of-thousands-expected-at-pro-palestine-march-in-london 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 24 minutes ago, WDSmart said: And, just what were the conditions? Douglas Murray is a biased idiot. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said: Thousands join pro-Palestine marches in London and Edinburgh Demonstrations first in UK since UN’s international court of justice ordered Israel to ensure acts of genocide not committed in Gaza https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/03/hundreds-of-thousands-expected-at-pro-palestine-march-in-london Yes the UK is a democracy, a couple of weeks ago it was the pro Israel protests: Thousands attend London rally in solidarity with Israel https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/14/thousands-attend-london-rally-in-solidarity-with-israel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said: Thousands join pro-Palestine marches in London and Edinburgh Demonstrations first in UK since UN’s international court of justice ordered Israel to ensure acts of genocide not committed in Gaza https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/03/hundreds-of-thousands-expected-at-pro-palestine-march-in-london Anyone with any integrity will join these marches. Anyone that is, who is not an Islamophobe. What annoys me is that it hatred of Palestinians/Muslims is accepted on some media but hatred of Israelis is not. Double standards. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 13 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: New York Times goes big on a story about how all of 80 unidentified, anonymous and therefore unverifiable employees of the United States government, which employs millions, supposedly signed a protest letter about Gaza along with 700+ from the EU The point is persons within governments have voiced their concerns with their government policies and have been ignored. Accordingly they have now gone public. I suggest even if a million public servants within US government had gone public you would still belittle their concerns. Increasingly Israeli killings within Gaza are gaining criticism, as well as by Settlers in the West Bank. IMO the Israeli killings of civilians in Gaza and the West Bank are eroding Israeli support and way out of the bounds of a credible response to the murderous Hamas attack on Oct 7. It will be interesting to follow if Israel and the Palestinians can achieve a lasting peace after this murderous affair. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 At this rate, the number of civilians killed by Israel will exceed the number of civilians killed in Iraq by the USA, and that was all because of false accusations! Shame on the USA, and all who support them in their funding of this killing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, simple1 said: IMO the Israeli killings of civilians in Gaza and the West Bank are eroding Israeli support Not just you, the world is condemning Israel. If the US were not supporting them, they'dbe outcast already. I wonder why the USA supports Israel, due to a certain religion perhaps? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, simple1 said: The point is persons within governments have voiced their concerns with their government policies and have been ignored. Accordingly they have now gone public. I suggest even if a million public servants within US government had gone public you would still belittle their concerns. Increasingly Israeli killings within Gaza are gaining criticism, as well as by Settlers in the West Bank. IMO the Israeli killings of civilians in Gaza and the West Bank are eroding Israeli support and way out of the bounds of a credible response to the murderous Hamas attack on Oct 7. It will be interesting to follow if Israel and the Palestinians can achieve a lasting peace after this murderous affair. Just to makes things a little clearer on my position. I deplore what's been happening with the settlers taking over areas in the West Bank. Gaza is a very different story I don't be little anyone's concerns, its their right to have them. Better read my post again. The criticism was with the NYT. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 11 minutes ago, simple1 said: The point is persons within governments have voiced their concerns with their government policies and have been ignored. Accordingly they have now gone public. I suggest even if a million public servants within US government had gone public you would still belittle their concerns. Some people support the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents. I can't bear to read their posts any more. The only reason I can think of is an irrational fear and hatred of Muslims. Most of the Israeli supporters on this forum have the decency/integrity to stop their public support but a couple linger on. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Just to makes things a little clearer on my position. I deplore what's been happening with the settlers taking over areas in the West Bank. Gaza is a very different story I don't be little anyone's concerns, its their right to have them. Better read my post again. The criticism was with the NYT. OK. We have differing interpretations of belittling commentary - from your post - how all of 80 unidentified, anonymous and therefore unverifiable employees. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Just now, simple1 said: OK. We have differing interpretations of belittling commentary - from your post - how all of 80 unidentified, anonymous and therefore unverifiable employees. yes, thats factual. Why such a big story from NYT with unverified and unnamed signatures? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, Neeranam said: Some people support the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents. I can't bear to read their posts any more. The only reason I can think of is an irrational fear and hatred of Muslims. Most of the Israeli supporters on this forum have the decency/integrity to stop their public support but a couple linger on. Except one member who has excellent knowledge of the politics / situation in Israel 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Just now, Bkk Brian said: yes, thats factual. Why such a big story from NYT with unverified and unnamed signatures? One last reply concerning this matter. It is against government policy for staff to express criticism of government policy in the public domain - what's why 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 12 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Not just you, the world is condemning Israel. If the US were not supporting them, they'dbe outcast already. I wonder why the USA supports Israel, due to a certain religion perhaps? I'm a US citizen, and I think the reason the US government supports Israel so much is because, up to now, the US public was fervently AGAINST Arabs because of the 911 attacks. There were some anti-Arab, anti-Muslim sentiments before that. I think that was based on religion. Most US citizens are Christians or claim to be, and because the Old Testament in the Christian Bible is fundamentally the same as the Torah, the Jewish holy book, they feel a kindred spirit toward Judaism. It's not the same with Islam. Most US citizens only think of Muslims as extremists, Jihadis. That's why I think the US government has supported Israel, but that could change if more US citizens began to judge the extreme Israeli attacks on Gaza as unacceptable. I, of course, already do. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 minute ago, simple1 said: One last reply concerning this matter. It is against government policy for staff to express criticism of government policy in the public domain - what's why Here's my one last, NYT has a history NEW YORK TIMES MEDIA CORRECTIONS https://www.camera.org/article/topic/media-corrections/outlet/new-york-times/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yellowtail Posted February 4 Popular Post Share Posted February 4 40 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said: Thousands join pro-Palestine marches in London and Edinburgh Demonstrations first in UK since UN’s international court of justice ordered Israel to ensure acts of genocide not committed in Gaza https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/03/hundreds-of-thousands-expected-at-pro-palestine-march-in-london I wonder if the "Campain for Nuclear Disarmament" faction of the crowd would support starting in Iran... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 11 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I'm a US citizen, and I think the reason the US government supports Israel so much is because, up to now, the US public was fervently AGAINST Arabs because of the 911 attacks. There were some anti-Arab, anti-Muslim sentiments before that. I think that was based on religion. Most US citizens are Christians or claim to be, and because the Old Testament in the Christian Bible is fundamentally the same as the Torah, the Jewish holy book, they feel a kindred spirit toward Judaism. It's not the same with Islam. Most US citizens only think of Muslims as extremists, Jihadis. That's why I think the US government has supported Israel, but that could change if more US citizens began to judge the extreme Israeli attacks on Gaza as unacceptable. I, of course, already do. I think the US (at least the left in the US) had more support for Isarael pre 911 than they do now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabas Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, WDSmart said: I do think they should negotiate a release of the hostages, but I think that needs to be part of a much larger agreement. Here is a link to my more detailed proposal that I posted yesterday, which includes my proposal for a phased release of the hostages. http://www.billsmart.com/writing/opinion/Israel_Palestine/Israel_Palestine Resolution v1.htm While I understand the value of a minimal border, simply dividing Israel in half looks a bit like what's known as a spherical cow approximation, simple but not practical. Is your diagram a suggestion not meant to be taken literally, or do you mean to give the Palestinians everything the State of Israel has built from day one, Tel Aviv, buildings, airports, factories, universities,military installations, and likely nuclear weapons infrastructure? If so, it doesn't seem a legitimate attempt at peace. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Just now, Yellowtail said: I think the US (at least the left in the US) had more support for Isarael pre 911 than they do now. Well, I don't know about that. I'm about as extreme left as you can get, and I've always been uncomfortable with the way the Israelis treated the Palestinians. But I do agree that 911 made a lot of people anti-Arab and anti-Muslim. Maybe that spilled over to the Israelis somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Not just you, the world is condemning Israel. If the US were not supporting them, they'dbe outcast already. I wonder why the USA supports Israel, due to a certain religion perhaps? Among the older demographic there is more islamophobia for sure but I think the issue here is political power. I'm not sure if antisemitism is trending or not, it's been pretty bad since WW2 Edited February 4 by ozimoron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 17 minutes ago, rabas said: While I understand the value of a minimal border, simply dividing Israel in half looks a bit like what's known as a spherical cow approximation, simple but not practical. Is your diagram a suggestion not meant to be taken literally, or do you mean to give the Palestinians everything the State of Israel has built from day one, Tel Aviv, buildings, airports, factories, universities,military installations, and likely nuclear weapons infrastructure? If so, it doesn't seem a legitimate attempt at peace. As I've said in early posts, my simple "half and half" map was mostly just suggestive and based on the UN'a 1947 proportions. It could be done more proportionally to the current population, which, I think, is about 60/40 (60% Israelis). But as I said earlier, whatever map is the result would have to have the two states separate but contiguous within their own state. It couldn't have two separate territories like now with Gaza and the West Bank. But yes, any map like that would inevitably involve the disruption of some Israeli establishments. I don't know how a fair and equitable map could be drawn without doing that. Edited February 4 by WDSmart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yellowtail Posted February 4 Popular Post Share Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Well, I don't know about that. I do 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I'm about as extreme left as you can get, No surprise 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: and I've always been uncomfortable with the way the Israelis treated the Palestinians. But I do agree that 911 made a lot of people anti-Arab and anti-Muslim. Agree with who? 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Maybe that spilled over to the Israelis somehow. That's hilarious 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: As I've said in early posts, my simple "half and half" map was mostly just suggestive. It could be done more proportionally to the population, which, I think, is about 60/40 (60% Israelis). But as I said earlier, whatever map is the result would have to have the two states separate but contiguous within their own state. It couldn't have two separate territories like now with Gaza and the West Bank. But yes, any map like that would inevitably involve the disruption of some Israeli establishments. I don't know how a fair and equitable map could be drawn without doing that. It could with a Berlin corridor. Undesirable but not out of the question. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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