Appeals court denies Trump’s immunity claims in election interference case

[thaicurious]

50 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Trump continues to believe he could do whatever he wanted with impunity while in office, and yet millions of people want him back in the White House. What a sad and dangerous place the USA has become. 

Millions yes but out of 332 million total population (a google search shows "2022, the total voting-aged population in the US was 255,457,000 people").

 

Here's a recent take on the maga portion of that by percentage

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/views-maga-movement-correspond-iowa-caucus-support-poll-finds-rcna133878

"Views of MAGA movement correspond to Iowa caucus support, poll finds...

Overall, the new NBC News/Des Moines Register/Mediacom poll finds a combined 40% of likely caucusgoers identifying themselves as either “Ultra MAGA” (18%) or “Regular MAGA” (22%) when asked how they view the phrase. Another 38% say they’re neutral to the MAGA movement, and 17% are anti-MAGA."

 

So you've got a Republican Party (which isn't newly nuts as before this was their Gingrich t party nonsense, before that Nixon etc) & the GOP makes up about 25% of all voters currently* and out of that you've got 40% always trumpers.

 

So 40% of 25% of over 255,457,000 people. Yeah, that's millions. 10s of millions. But also that's not the 230 million of the other USA voters who are not that.

 

*https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

Republicans  Independents  Democrats

%%%

2024 Jan 2-22

25   45    27

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, thaicurious said:

Millions yes but out of 332 million total population (a google search shows "2022, the total voting-aged population in the US was 255,457,000 people").

 

Here's a recent take on the maga portion of that by percentage

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/views-maga-movement-correspond-iowa-caucus-support-poll-finds-rcna133878

"Views of MAGA movement correspond to Iowa caucus support, poll finds...

Overall, the new NBC News/Des Moines Register/Mediacom poll finds a combined 40% of likely caucusgoers identifying themselves as either “Ultra MAGA” (18%) or “Regular MAGA” (22%) when asked how they view the phrase. Another 38% say they’re neutral to the MAGA movement, and 17% are anti-MAGA."

 

So you've got a Republican Party (which isn't newly nuts as before this was their Gingrich t party nonsense, before that Nixon etc) & the GOP makes up about 25% of all voters currently* and out of that you've got 40% always trumpers.

 

So 40% of 25% of over 255,457,000 people. Yeah, that's millions. 10s of millions. But also that's not the 230 million of the other USA voters who are not that.

 

*https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

Republicans  Independents  Democrats

%%%

2024 Jan 2-22

25   45    27

 

All of your long and explanatory post is fine. The bottom line is that Trump is in the lead to become President again. If he is allowed to stand. Usually the only person in America not allowed to stand for President is the President if he has served two terms, but 2024 might be an exception. Although the courts move so slowly they might not make up their minds until 2026, which is a bit of a problem.

[Danderman123]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Well colour me shocked. A US court verdict going against Trump. Never saw that coming. 

 

Meanwhile, no charges for Biden in the classified documents case.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/no-charges-for-biden-over-handling-of-classified-documents-washington-post

 

The US in freefall to banana republic status under the Democrats.

 

 

Because Biden's staff returned the documents when they were discovered.

 

Whereas Trump hid the boxes of classified documents he stole.

 

If you can't see the difference, then political propaganda has overwhelmed your brain.

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Trump continues to believe he could do whatever he wanted with impunity while in office, and yet millions of people want him back in the White House. What a sad and dangerous place the USA has become. 

Remember, if average IQ is 100, 50% are over 100, and 50% under 100.

 

That's the explanation why there are so many Trump voters.

[Danderman123]

5 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

 

Trump not wanting jail time has only one choice as I see it. October surprise, he drops out and supports Haley. She beats Biden. She stops all federal charges against Trump. Leaving Trump to plead guilty in Georgia for a plea deal.

Trump's hidden plan.

That could be a plan.

 

Except for the mechanics. Presidential candidates dropping out late in the election means their replacement won't apoear on the ballot.

[thaicurious]

7 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

All of your long and explanatory post is fine. The bottom line is that Trump is in the lead to become President again. If he is allowed to stand. Usually the only person in America not allowed to stand for President is the President if he has served two terms, but 2024 might be an exception. Although the courts move so slowly they might not make up their minds until 2026, which is a bit of a problem.

I think the fright factor comes both by the power the US yields & that the US is not just the longest continually living constitutional democracy that now seems in jeopardy but also is seen by many as democracy's protectorate, particularly considering the other two biggest powers in the world are authoritarian and that we've seen other smaller countries go that way lately. So, yeah, that's scary and it magnifies the 10% (40% of 25%) crazy but still does not yet make the US a "dangerous place"; that's the job of our lack of gun safety laws.

 

You are right that the Constitution of the United States provides for conditions qualifying candidates for presidency. I still have faith that the "justice delayed is justice denied (the people)" will assure the most important cases (14th Amend & Smith) on Trump are adjudicated before a general election, though time is becoming ever more precious.

 

What might have become dangerous in America is that the 10% crazies and their adjunct 20% sympathizers that make up the 30% of the Republican "base" have been aided by the rest of the GOP's capitulating to them, with the traditional real conservatives abandoning (or being kicked out of) their own party. We've seen misstatements, misdirection, outright lying, even criminal behavior but we've never seen a pathological liar before which I think is also denied by the Constitution's 25th Amendment and, given today's technology not known at our founding, could be medically verified simply by getting an MRI image of Trump's brain to check for an overabundance of white matter. That alone ought disqualify because it prevents him from living in reality and thereby unable to perform the duties of president to protect and defend the country's constitution from which our laws derive.

 

So we have on the one hand the technology (MRI brain scan) to prevent a Trump candidacy which has not even been considered while on the other hand the technology (social media) for a pathological lying con artist to bamboozle a large enough portion of the population to gain office when the electoral college was originally affected to deny that very thing but in a time when the founders could not have known of electronic social media* and even that was before the electoral college, which was supposed to be independent, was coopted by a two party system.

 

*Hamilton's Federalist Paper 68, March 14, 1788

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed68.asp

"election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations...

 

The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States." (bolding mine)

 

So the very thing established by the founders to prevent the likes of a Trump has been perverted by the Republican Party to elevate such a pathological lying con man of "talents for low intrigue and the little arts" to the presidency.

 

We defeated them last election. I place my hope there.

[thaicurious]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

That could be a plan.

 

Except for the mechanics. Presidential candidates dropping out late in the election means their replacement won't apoear on the ballot.

Unless she's his vp pick and his plan is to become her bitch which might be his bed fantasy but unlikely his preferred public persona of being a misogynist, said not as a disrespect but as an obvious matter of fact.

[Chomper Higgot]

I’ve read the OP twice but can’t spot the ‘kryptonite’ that’s keeping Trump’s usual supporters away from this topic.

 

 

[Caldera]

On 2/7/2024 at 4:10 AM, Social Media said:

"We cannot accept former President Trump’s claim that a President has unbounded authority to commit crimes that would neutralize the most fundamental check on executive power."

 

Says it all. Nobody is above the law.

[pomchop]

23 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

The USA 'justice' system is making America look like a third world banana republic. Sad.

The only problem with the justice so far is that they are allowing donnie and his dumbo lawyers to file frivolous motion after motion rather than grow a pair and just say NO MORE BS.  Let the trials begin and let a jury look at all the evidence and decide innocent or guilty.  And it is actually stacked in defendant's favor as has to be unanimous verdict. 

 

Why are trumpers so afraid of the trials?  Reckon it just might be that donnie and the dumbos know he is guilty and his ONLY hope of not becoming a convict is to delay delay delay and then figure a way to get the kool aide crew to send him more $$ and vote for him...of course when he loses as he will he will once again kick and scream and whine like a 5 y.o. that it is all so unfair and rigged. 

 

Supremes are highly unlikely to even hear the immunity case as it is so absurd as to be a waste of time.  The appeals court ruling is exceptionally well done and destroys each and very BS argument made by trumps lawyers.  Read it.

 

The big one is the ballot case which they basically have no choice but to hear and i suspect they will try to find some loophole to allow them to avoid having to actually rule on the article as it is written.  But meantime donnie will get tried by Jack Smith probably in May and he is very highly likely to be convicted of multiple felonies and sentenced to jail.  And he damn well knows it. He will try his best to sow chaos violence and create bedlam as it as usual is all about him and he could not care less about his kool aide cult joining their fellow kool aid coup plotters into the slammer for several years.

[heybruce]

I don't know if Trump ever thought that this BS absolute immunity claim would fly.  If he did he's even dumber than I thought.  However filing nonsense appeals delays his trial, which is what he wants.

[pomchop]

On 2/7/2024 at 1:12 PM, EastBayRay said:

Trump is innocent 

 

his best chance is a court that is not biased politically although that looks slim seeing as the US system is filled to the brim with lib judges 

poor little donnie...everybody is always picking on him...how dare them assemble massive amounts of evidence of his crimes to include thousands of documents, audio and video tape much in his own words, as well as first hand testimony provided almost exclusively by life long republicans who voted for trump and he witnessed in person many of his crimes and in spite of death threats from the cult testified under oath as to what they saw and heard.  How dare all those LIB judges many appointed by trump rule against the cult leader. Poor little donnie.  Everything he did in his entire life was absolutely perfect and it is all a giant witch hunt where old senile joe managed to convince all these trumpers to testify against orange jesus...good job joe i bet that was not easy to do.

[Berkshire]

17 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I don't know if Trump ever thought that this BS absolute immunity claim would fly.  If he did he's even dumber than I thought.  However filing nonsense appeals delays his trial, which is what he wants.

Trump probably never believed it.  But a good number of his idiot supporters did.  Just like they believe every lie that comes out of his mouth.  But yeah, delay was his primary objective.

[pomchop]

On 2/7/2024 at 2:28 PM, Wrwest said:

I will be interested in learning more from the PBS Newshour/Marris Poll coming out today in the USA. The Appeals Court has firmly rejected Donald Trump’s claim of immunity in the charges brought against him by a citizen based Federal Grand Jury. The Poll reflects the current political divide. Better than 65% of Independent and Democrat Americans asked, say that Donald Trump should not have immunity from prosecution. Of Republicans asked, 68% say Donald Trump should be immune from prosecution. It is on such a basis that some, including myself, fear that there is a real possibility currently that far too many Americans are willing to move toward authoritarian rule … that any President should be immune from the law in any action while President?!

So do those 68% also agree that under their "logic" that Biden can if he wants tomorrow have Trump arrested or even killed and not face prosecution.  How dumb do you have to be to think that any person should have absolute immunity to commit any and all crimes. 

 

The "cult" has spoken and as usual are proving once again that they are completely and totally under the spell cast by the orange jesus....go ahead trump you are our savior and god so do anything anytime anywhere to anybody as you are above all the pesky laws that every other president and citizen has lived under for the past couple of centuries.

 

Truly disgusting lack of intelligence and lack of ability to see the absurdity of their position.

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Trump probably never believed it.  But a good number of his idiot supporters did.  Just like they believe every lie that comes out of his mouth.  But yeah, delay was his primary objective.

Trump's plan to delay the January 6 case likely means the trial will proceed in August or September. After the Manhattan trial.

 

So, voters in November will have his convictions fresh in their minds when they vote.

 

I'm pretty sure that no one is going to change their votes after Trump has racked up multiple convictions, but some potential Trump voters will stay home.

 

After the results of the second trial, even some of the Trump fluffers here will disappear. But, if you ask them today if they will cease to post Trump propaganda here after the second trial results in a conviction, their response would be "Trump won't be convicted".

 

[Walker88]

Very simple question:

 

If trump hadn't called his goobers to DC on 6 January ("It'll be WILD!"), and if he didn't hold his silly rally on the Mall, telling his goobers to 'fight like hell' and 'march to the Capitol', how many would have come to DC totally on their own, marched to the Capitol, and attacked law enforcement officers while trying to get to the VP to hang him and SotH to do her harm?

 

ZERO.

 

Thus, trump is guilty of---at the very least---providing aid or comfort to insurrectionists, which is the wording of the 14th Amendment, Article III:

 

"engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

 

trump calls the convicted 6 January terrorists "hostages", and says he will pardon them if re-elected. That is "aid or comfort".

 

There are only three reasons someone cannot run for President:

 

1) under age 35

2) Not born in the US

3) engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

 

trump clearly should be barred from running because of the 3rd disqualifying thing.

[thaicurious]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

After the results of the second trial, even some of the Trump fluffers here will disappear.

Unless his mounting legal bills interfere with their pay checks first.

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

 

 

There are only three reasons someone cannot run for President:

 

1) under age 35

2) Not born in the US

3) engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

 

trump clearly should be barred from running because of the 3rd disqualifying thing.

I would agree with you - if someone had bothered to convict Trump of sedition in the past.

[Tug]

9 minutes ago, thaicurious said:

Unless his mounting legal bills interfere with their pay checks first.

I think a majority of the trump fluffers ( kudos to whoever thought of that term! Chortle 🤭)are most likely paid by a certain organization that hails from st,Petersburg after all seems that trump and the GOP are performing better for Putin than the Russian military at the moment 

[thaicurious]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

I think a majority of the trump fluffers ( kudos to whoever thought of that term! Chortle 🤭)are most likely paid by a certain organization that hails from st,Petersburg after all seems that trump and the GOP are performing better for Putin than the Russian military at the moment 

If less loss of life is the measure; if as much chaos, maybe a tie. Was just kidding but it does seem that way sometimes and where that'd be funded, that's the same pair of ideological pants whether one pocket Putin, another the Republican Party, etc. I don't know what will be the evolution of democracy but this certainly is a test of it.

 

As to the trump fluffer designation, cute, yet considering the toadstool in question, yikes, ick, yikes!

[newnative]

Good decision--and really the only decision. Now, lock him up already.

[newnative]

On 2/7/2024 at 1:42 PM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Trump continues to believe he could do whatever he wanted with impunity while in office, and yet millions of people want him back in the White House. What a sad and dangerous place the USA has become. 

     Yes, 'millions of people want him back in the White House' but, take heart.  It's never been 50% of the voters in his two presidential runs.  He lost by 2 million in 2016 and it got worse in 2020, losing by 7 million, even running as the incumbent president, a horrible, embarrassing showing.   How must it feel to know that the other guy was picked over you by 7 million voters?  You, in your mind, the best president ever?  They soundly rejected, 'best president'.  Loser in both races. 

     The wild card, of course, is the cursed Electoral College, with the possibility of a relative handful of electors going against the will of the voters, as was done in 2016.   I have no doubt that Biden will once again win the popular vote but a smart VP pick by Trump could possibly swing the cursed Electoral College once again his way.  Scary any way you look at it and, as you say, sad, as well.

     And, if any more proof is needed regarding the perversity of the cursed EC, look no further than VP choices sometimes picked, not for their experience and ability to take over as president, but, rather, for their hoped for ability to carry a state and its electoral votes in the election.   

[Bangkok Barry]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

And, if any more proof is needed regarding the perversity of the cursed EC,

 

Not being American, I have no idea why there has to be an EC. In other democracies the people vote, the votes are counted and the one with the most votes wins. It's really that simple. Another thing I don't understand about the American system is that after serving two terms the only person in America who is banned from standing for President is the President. Doesn't matter how good he has been for the country (and I know that no leader of any country is perfect in office), they are banned. And so the US got Trump instead of Obama, although Hillary Clinton wouldn't have been great either. It baffles me how a country of over 330,000,000 can't find anyone other than a dangerous ego-maniac or a geriatric to run for President.

 

Cue posts about Obama being a total failure who ruined America and Trump or Biden are better suited to be President.....

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Not being American, I have no idea why there has to be an EC. In other democracies the people vote, the votes are counted and the one with the most votes wins. It's really that simple. Another thing I don't understand about the American system is that after serving two terms the only person in America who is banned from standing for President is the President. Doesn't matter how good he has been for the country (and I know that no leader of any country is perfect in office), they are banned. And so the US got Trump instead of Obama, although Hillary Clinton wouldn't have been great either. It baffles me how a country of over 330,000,000 can't find anyone other than a dangerous ego-maniac or a geriatric to run for President.

 

Cue posts about Obama being a total failure who ruined America and Trump or Biden are better suited to be President.....

     I'm an American and I think there was never a need for the EC, and certainly not now.   I'm with you--count the votes and the person who gets the most, wins.  Yes, as you say, it really is that simple!   Losing by 7 million votes would certainly have prevented Trump from using his ridiculous Big Lie that the election was 'stolen' from him.