Building Green

[Adagio]

I am at the very early planning stages of building a house (single story, stilted, 2 beds, large surround balcony) on Koh Phangan. I would like to build as ecologically soundly as my budget will allow. I would appreciate peoples comments on the merits of the three main possibilities of wood, steel and concrete.

I know concrete to be an environmentally unfriendly material due to the vast amounts of energy used (and so CO2 produced) in it's manufacture. as far as I know though this is the cheapest option.

Wood is potentially a renewable resource and looks great but a couple of friends have said the problems that come with it, such as the constant need to be applying toxic chemicals and the quality of the materials available mean they would not use it again. I very much doubt the wood I could get hold of on this island would come from a renewable resource anyway and would probably be the product of illegal, or at the very least unsustainable logging, something I would not want to support. Apparently it's very expensive here too.

I know next to nothing about building in steel here or anywhere. Would local builders even be able to do it? I would at least want the roof structure in steel which I have seen being done around the island. Building the structure in steel would only have any point if there is a substantial ecological or financial merit in doing so.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Adagio

[Gary A]

I live out in the boonies and during the past three years, I have not seen a single house built with wooden rafters. So to answer that question, the Thais are VERY good at using steel for the roof portion of the house. The foundation will be the difficult part. You will need a good engineer who will tell you whether to build on driven pilings or if you can get by with conventional poured footer. In any case I think it is a good idea to use concrete for stilts. Wood is still commonly used for the walls because the wood is far enough off the ground to allow visual inspections. There is a wooden house on stilts near our house. It is now empty. The stilts were made from wood. The entire house is full of termites. It still looks good but I would be afraid to walk on the floors.

[canuckamuck]

Just dig a hole and cover it with fallen branches.

[baabaabobo]

I live in a Balinese style house which uses all three.

The "stilts" are made of cement to avoid termites entering. The support beams are steel and everything else is wood.

The wood needs changing every 5 years due mainly to mushrooms and mold. We have thatched roofs on our salas which also need changing annually. Wood has good insulation and is easily replaceable but needs constant attention. IMO this is the way to go as the climate does not need thick cement walls. There are hard or oily woods that are sustainable such as rubber tree.

[Adagio]

Just dig a hole and cover it with fallen branches.

I am not sure whether I am supposed to find that helpful or funny.

[Adagio]

I live in a Balinese style house which uses all three.

The "stilts" are made of cement to avoid termites entering. The support beams are steel and everything else is wood.

The wood needs changing every 5 years due mainly to mushrooms and mold. We have thatched roofs on our salas which also need changing annually. Wood has good insulation and is easily replaceable but needs constant attention. IMO this is the way to go as the climate does not need thick cement walls. There are hard or oily woods that are sustainable such as rubber tree.

Thank you, I have pretty much been thinking along these lines, though with a tile roof as I am not planning on the roof being step enough for thatch to be completely watertight.

I would still appreciate any comments on the environmental and cost implications of the various options.

[canuckamuck]

Just dig a hole and cover it with fallen branches.

I am not sure whether I am supposed to find that helpful or funny.

Well if it is helpful thats great, but I was just having a chuckle.

No offense intended.

[Adagio]

I live out in the boonies and during the past three years, I have not seen a single house built with wooden rafters. So to answer that question, the Thais are VERY good at using steel for the roof portion of the house. The foundation will be the difficult part. You will need a good engineer who will tell you whether to build on driven pilings or if you can get by with conventional poured footer. In any case I think it is a good idea to use concrete for stilts. Wood is still commonly used for the walls because the wood is far enough off the ground to allow visual inspections. There is a wooden house on stilts near our house. It is now empty. The stilts were made from wood. The entire house is full of termites. It still looks good but I would be afraid to walk on the floors.

Thank you, most helpful. you have also confirmed my pre-conceptions. Decorative but not structural wood. Shame.

[Adagio]

Just dig a hole and cover it with fallen branches.

I am not sure whether I am supposed to find that helpful or funny.

Well if it is helpful thats great, but I was just having a chuckle.

No offense intended.

None taken but I'd work on your comedy routine

[chownah]

Earth and bamboo is eco friendly. When done properly it can look nice too although most of what you see looks pretty home made if you know what I mean.

Whatever you build try to build it to last...a building that lasts twice as long uses only half the resources more or less. One problem in Thailand is that everyone wants a new house so houses are not built to last more than one generation. Many Thai people do recycle parts of old buildings and even build houses with that in mind by not putting in unneeded nails.

Also consider size. Building a house bigger than necessary blah blah blah. Consider the design and consider how you can make your living space more efficient blah blah blah.

Chownah

[Adagio]

Earth and bamboo is eco friendly. When done properly it can look nice too although most of what you see looks pretty home made if you know what I mean.

Whatever you build try to build it to last...a building that lasts twice as long uses only half the resources more or less. One problem in Thailand is that everyone wants a new house so houses are not built to last more than one generation. Many Thai people do recycle parts of old buildings and even build houses with that in mind by not putting in unneeded nails.

Also consider size. Building a house bigger than necessary blah blah blah. Consider the design and consider how you can make your living space more efficient blah blah blah.

Chownah

I was thinking of a bungalow for guests somewhere down the line. This sounds possible for that though I think I would want something more substantial for my main home. Unless there are builders who could do this on my island (Koh PhaNgan) it might not be an option anyway but all ideas gratefully accepted.

[canuckamuck]

None taken but I'd work on your comedy routine

can't please em all.

PS: Steel has a massive enviro production cost as well.

Probably more than cement because it needs to be shipped, whereas Thailand is a massive producer of cement.

[chownah]

I don't mean to insult the builders on Koh PhaNgan but if you are going to limit yourself to their expertise then really you probably don't have many options..concrete...wood...bamboo..sheet metal shack construction....asbestos board....that's probably about it really. I know around here in the north that's about all the locals know how to build with and building with bamboo is a dying art really and only a few old people in my neighborhood have any idea how to really do it.

Chownah

[londonthai]

get teak wood from the old houses around for the floor/ceiling/roof and balcony - you will still need to give an attention to termites.

do brick walls - fast and easy to do, no need for maintanance like wood.

[Gary A]

About a year ago I saw some new eco bricks. They are apparently made from sand, clay and a little cement. They are pressed in a hydraulic press then dried in the sun. I was quite curious so I bought a couple of them. For a test, I have left them exposed to the weather and use them for blocking up my farm implements. They have proven to be a lot stronger than the cheap concrete blocks, look much better and have weathered well. I think I will use them if I ever build a new house. They are interlocking and both houses I have seen that used them have used no morter. The farang painted his and the Thai left his plain. I was a little skeptical about using no mortar but after the inside surface was plastered, it seems quite strong.

[Adagio]

About a year ago I saw some new eco bricks. They are apparently made from sand, clay and a little cement. They are pressed in a hydraulic press then dried in the sun. I was quite curious so I bought a couple of them. For a test, I have left them exposed to the weather and use them for blocking up my farm implements. They have proven to be a lot stronger than the cheap concrete blocks, look much better and have weathered well. I think I will use them if I ever build a new house. They are interlocking and both houses I have seen that used them have used no morter. The farang painted his and the Thai left his plain. I was a little skeptical about using no mortar but after the inside surface was plastered, it seems quite strong.

I've seen these around, I just didn't realise (beyond the obvious) what they were. Thank you, just the sort of advice I am after. Thanks for the second hand wood advice too, also well worth thinking about.

[hellohello]

You might check into what my friend Tony is doing in Bali.

http://www.balithouse.com/

good luck.

[Gerontion]

Adobe, rammed earth, cob and straw bale are all simple peasant technologies that use local materials and have very low embodied energy. There's a ton of information on the web about all of these. If you read Thai, you can start at http://www.baandin.org/web/ or at http://www.baandin.com/index.php. As someone said, your house probably won't be gracing the cover of Wallpaper but who wants to buy into that kind of one-upmanship? Build something beautiful and organic and be proud of it.

[canopy]

Are the eco blocks mentioned still available and if so, where?

[johnson36]

About a year ago I saw some new eco bricks. They are apparently made from sand, clay and a little cement. They are pressed in a hydraulic press then dried in the sun. I was quite curious so I bought a couple of them. For a test, I have left them exposed to the weather and use them for blocking up my farm implements. They have proven to be a lot stronger than the cheap concrete blocks, look much better and have weathered well. I think I will use them if I ever build a new house. They are interlocking and both houses I have seen that used them have used no morter. The farang painted his and the Thai left his plain. I was a little skeptical about using no mortar but after the inside surface was plastered, it seems quite strong.

what is the size of the block and how much do they cost ?

[Rimmer]

There was a program just yesterday on Thai TV about making these blocks, We watched it because the guys that make them are quite close to us and we had previously purchased some for test.

The blocks are made one at a time by pressing sand, cement and so we were told in the TV program dirt in a hand operated press no water is used.

About one year back we purchased some of the blocks and were testing them for suitability in a low garden wall

The blocks we tested crumbled after only a short time.

Seems to me that If no water is used then the cement mix can never start to cure and the blocks will always crumble.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Rimmer

[canopy]

Seems to me that If no water is used then the cement mix can never start to cure and the blocks will always crumble.

Yes, this sounds an awful lot like an operator error. Never mind it seems obvious to the most casual observer that cement must have water to cure.

[Svenn]

.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Svenn

[Svenn]

...double post...

Edited October 14, 2009 by Svenn

[Svenn]

None taken but I'd work on your comedy routine

can't please em all.

PS: Steel has a massive enviro production cost as well.

Probably more than cement because it needs to be shipped, whereas Thailand is a massive producer of cement.

Yes, this Canadian has a point- I read an article recently about how trying to build globally neutral "eco-friendly" homes is about the most asinine concept one can have in construction. Adagio, this fanciful cause and effect chain you're trying to trace back to the 'production costs' is an ultimately zero net game: the article mentioned that building homes the cheapest is actually likely to have the least requirement of production capital, and therefore pollution, than any other method. Sure it might not be the most eco-friendly home individually if you go the cheap route, but its net footprint on the world at large is likely to be smallest. Basically, it helps if you don't dump 10 liters of gasoline on your property, or have a giant teak beam in your eco-library, but other than that, there's really nothing you can do.

My guess is that these eco-friendly people are more interested in serving their ego and their judgmental sense of self-righteousness than actually making a practical dent on the planet. Your bitter responses to the Canadian suggest this, so if you don't mind, go sit in your hole and cover it with fallen branches (but make sure not to disturb the ant habitat when you dig the hole)