As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

This is the most disingenuous comment that you have made to date, and you’ve posted some crackers in the last few days, as you have been struggling to hide both your dishonesty, and your virulent hatred for Israel and Israelis.

There are some posters on here that do not hide their hatred and dishonesty, but the poster you quoted is IMO not one of them, as he does not post with hatred or dishonesty.

I have read his posts and none of them contain hatred or dishonesty. By all means quote his words of hatred or dishonesty, but I doubt you will find any to quote.

Edited February 17 by thaibeachlovers

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, WDSmart said:

South Africa has accused Israel of genocide, which is a war crime. The ICJ has not issued its final ruling yet, and that won't come for a long time. The ICJ did order Israel to respond in writing as to how they would try to reduce the killing of civilians in Gaza. As far as I know, they have not done that yet, although I did read something about what the IDF said about how they will provide options for civilians to evacuate Rafah. I don't think this, however, satisfies the ICJ request.

I am being truthful and honest. You just refuse to believe anything that doesn't support your beliefs.

 

   Israel hasn't been charged with war crimes/genocide by a Court of law , South Africa , (with the backing of Iran and Hamas) made the accusation and the ICJ didn't find Israel guilty of those accusations .

  The ICJ gave certain recommendations for Israel to follow to make sure genocide wasn't going to happen  Israel had 30 days to respond to show that it was following those recommendations .

   Once again you were trying to bend the truth to make it appear that Israel were committing war crimes , whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes 

[WDSmart]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oh no.....lol

 

Here's one of those hostages................

 

Freed Israeli hostage says she endured ‘psychological warfare’ during 50 days of Hamas captivity

After 16 days, Asher and her daughters were taken from the apartment to what she described as a “so-called” hospital in the southern Gaza city of Khan Younis. Why “so-called”? 

Because a hospital is “a place that is supposed to take care of people, but instead it was taken over by Hamas and they used it to hide hostages,” Asher said.

The Israeli military has repeatedly said Hamas hides terrorist infrastructure in and around civilian institutions in Gaza, such as hospitals – a claim denied by the militant group. The US has said that Hamas used the Al-Shifa Hospital, the largest in Gaza, as a command center and a place to hold hostages. Asher did not say where she was held.

Asher was joined by other hostages in the hospital complex – the first captives she had met since being taken into Gaza.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/04/middleeast/israel-hostage-doron-katz-asher-interview-hamas-gaza-intl

This discussion (and topic) is about the impending invasion of Rafah, which just recently included, or was preceded by, an invasion of the Nassar Hospital. The IDF claimed they had "evidence" that Hamas was holding or had buried the bodies of hostages there. So far, I've not seen any report that the IDF has found any hostages, living or dead. All I've seen are reports that they have captured up to 16 men they believe to be Hamas militants. Oh, and I've read lots of reports on the chaos and deaths of civilians their invasion of the hospital has caused. 
Five patients die at Gaza’s Nasser hospital after Israeli raid cuts off power and leads to ‘deeply alarming’ scenes | CNN

[WDSmart]

5 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

5 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

  7 hours ago, WDSmart said:

and I hate it when others have so much bias that they can't see both sides

The irony of you, of all people, saying that, is quite breathtaking

…. I might have to open a bottle of Montepulciano d’Abruzzo earlier than usual

After you've had a few glasses of your wine, let me know if you think you or many of the others who post on this Topic have any capacity at all to "see both sides."  

[WDSmart]

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Israel hasn't been charged with war crimes/genocide by a Court of law , South Africa , (with the backing of Iran and Hamas) made the accusation and the ICJ didn't find Israel guilty of those accusations .

  The ICJ gave certain recommendations for Israel to follow to make sure genocide wasn't going to happen  Israel had 30 days to respond to show that it was following those recommendations .

   Once again you were trying to bend the truth to make it appear that Israel were committing war crimes , whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes 

They have been charged with war crimes/genocide by South Africa, and it has been presented before the ICJ.

The ICJ did find "...at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention." And, "The judge also reminded the courtroom that the Jan. 26 decision is only an interim order, part of a wider, pending case that will likely not see a ruling for years. However, 'the catastrophic humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip is at serious risk of deteriorating further before the court renders its final judgment.'"

ICJ's Ruling in the Israel-South Africa Case, Explained | TIME

And, @Nick Carter icp, I'd like to ask you what I consider to be a very important question and one which is central to almost all of my posts on this subject. That question is: Why did you end your post above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

This discussion (and topic) is about the impending invasion of Rafah, which just recently included, or was preceded by, an invasion of the Nassar Hospital. The IDF claimed they had "evidence" that Hamas was holding or had buried the bodies of hostages there. So far, I've not seen any report that the IDF has found any hostages, living or dead. All I've seen are reports that they have captured up to 16 men they believe to be Hamas militants. Oh, and I've read lots of reports on the chaos and deaths of civilians their invasion of the hospital has caused. 
Five patients die at Gaza’s Nasser hospital after Israeli raid cuts off power and leads to ‘deeply alarming’ scenes | CNN

We know what this topic is about and I was responding directly to your post, nobody else and the reason I was responding is because you asked me specifically this question:

 

- and where are all the hostages, alive or dead, that the IDF used as a justification for violating this, and all the other hospitals that the IDF has raided, "protected" status?

 

Do I have to repeat my response in regards to the hostage that was released from that same hospital last month and spoke about the other hostages that were also kept in the same room as her, at least another 10 hostages in a dark room with covered window.

 

Regards reports you do not keep up with the news. 100 terror suspects now arrested.

 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/troops-searching-khan-younis-hospital-arrest-more-than-100-terror-suspects/

 

Regards other hospitals that you asked about, I'm sure you've seen the numerous videos, how about this hostage getting forced in, a terrorist with a meat cleaver behind him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67469591

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Bkk Brian

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

They have been charged with war crimes/genocide by South Africa, and it has been presented before the ICJ.

The ICJ did find "...at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention." And, "The judge also reminded the courtroom that the Jan. 26 decision is only an interim order, part of a wider, pending case that will likely not see a ruling for years. However, 'the catastrophic humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip is at serious risk of deteriorating further before the court renders its final judgment.'"

ICJ's Ruling in the Israel-South Africa Case, Explained | TIME

And, @Nick Carter icp, I'd like to ask you what I consider to be a very important question and one which is central to almost all of my posts on this subject. That question is: Why did you end your post above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

 

    The IDF /Israel are fighting a war against terrorists who are committing numerous war crimes on a daily basis , Israel are fighting against war criminal trying to bring them to justice and you are trying to turn that around and make Israel out to be the war criminals 

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

We know what this topic is about and I was responding directly to your post, nobody else and the reason I was responding is because you asked me specifically this question:

 

- and where are all the hostages, alive or dead, that the IDF used as a justification for violating this, and all the other hospitals that the IDF has raided, "protected" status?

 

Do I have to repeat my response in regards to the hostage that was released from that same hospital last month and spoke about the other hostages that were also kept in the same room as her, at least another 10 hostages in a dark room with covered window.

 

Regards reports you do not keep up with the news. 100 terror suspects now arrested.

 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/troops-searching-khan-younis-hospital-arrest-more-than-100-terror-suspects/

 

Regards other hospitals that you asked about, I'm sure you've seen the numerous videos, how about this hostage getting forced in, a terrorist with a meat cleaver behind him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67469591

 

 

 

I was asking about the reported justification of THIS invasion and THIS hospital. Still, up to now, I have not seen any reposts stating that the IDF has found living or dead hostages in their current invasion of Nasser Hospital.

You say that there are now reported to have been "100 terror suspects now arrested." At least you (IDF?) used the designation "suspects." I "suspect" that the IDF identifies all Palestinian men older than 12 as "terror suspects." How and who will determine if these "suspects" are indeed members or supporters of Hamas? If that's left up to the IDF, I "suspect" they will not remain "terror suspects" for very long. They will quickly become recognized as just "terrorists," and then I have no idea what the IDF will do to them. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I was asking about the reported justification of THIS invasion and THIS hospital. Still, up to now, I have not seen any reposts stating that the IDF has found living or dead hostages in their current invasion of Nasser Hospital.

You say that there are now reported to have been "100 terror suspects now arrested." At least you (IDF?) used the designation "suspects." I "suspect" that the IDF identifies all Palestinian men older than 12 as "terror suspects." How and who will determine if these "suspects" are indeed members or supporters of Hamas? If that's left up to the IDF, I "suspect" they will not remain "terror suspects" for very long. They will quickly become recognized as just "terrorists," and then I have no idea what the IDF will do to them. 

Tell me, which hospital was Doron Katz Asher and another 10 hostages held? Read the CNN link, Khan Younis.

 

Which hospital is at Khan Younis? Hint.....................Nasser Hospital. Get a grip man and read

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    The IDF /Israel are fighting a war against terrorists who are committing numerous war crimes on a daily basis , Israel are fighting against war criminal trying to bring them to justice and you are trying to turn that around and make Israel out to be the war criminals 

@Nick Carter icp, that does not answer my question. Since your answer is very important to me, I'll repeat it with some more information...

You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? 

You hinted at the answer with your comment above, "The IDF /Israel are fighting a war against terrorists who are committing numerous war crimes on a daily basis." 

So, I ask again, What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

@Nick Carter icp, that does not answer my question. Since your answer is very important to me, I'll repeat it with some more information...

You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? 

You hinted at the answer with your comment above, "The IDF /Israel are fighting a war against terrorists who are committing numerous war crimes on a daily basis." 

So, I ask again, What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

So, I ask again, What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

 

What's that got to do with Hamas who are committing war crimes?

[WDSmart]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Tell me, which hospital was Doron Katz Asher and another 10 hostages held? Read the CNN link, Khan Younis.

 

Which hospital is at Khan Younis? Hint.....................Nasser Hospital. Get a grip man and read

I did know that, but that was not 

 

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Tell me, which hospital was Doron Katz Asher and another 10 hostages held? Read the CNN link, Khan Younis.

 

Which hospital is at Khan Younis? Hint.....................Nasser Hospital. Get a grip man and read

Doron Katz Asher was held at Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, and she reported that another ten hostages were being held there.
Nasser Hospital is in Khan Younis.

Now, let me ask you four things.

When was Doron Katz Asher released?
What date was the raid on Nasser Hospital? 
How many hostages did they find?
How many Palestinian's died during that raid?

 

Edited February 17 by WDSmart

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So, I ask again, What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

 

What's that got to do with Hamas who are committing war crimes?

@Bkk Brian, I wasn't asking you, but I could. Anyway, I don't understand your question. Nick Carter, icp, and I were discussing the ICJ's investigation and litigation of the charges that Israel is committing genocide and war crimes.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

I did know that, but that was not 

 

Doron Katz Asher was held at Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, and she reported that another ten hostages were being held there.
Nasser Hospital is in Khan Younis.

Now, let me ask you four things.

When was Doron Katz Asher released?
What date was the raid on Nasser Hospital? 
How many hostages did they find?
How many Palestinian's died during that raid?

 

Would you also like to know what toothpaste the hostages left behind? This is about just one piece of evidence among many others that the IDF had to enter the hospital under international law. Now we know as a result of that they have so far uncovered weapons including rocket launchers, arrested 20 Hamas and in total questioning 100 terror suspects so no doubt it will end up being more than 20. Fully justifying their entry

 

As IDF operations continue in Nasser Hospital: 

🔴 IDF troops uncovered medications with the names of Israeli hostages inside the hospital along with weapons. 

🔴 A report was received regarding the failure of electrical systems within the hospital. Our troops worked to repair the generator while bringing an alternative one.
In addition, the IDF supplied food for infants and water to the hospital. This was carried out with the Coordination and Liaison Administration for Gaza (CLA).

The IDF will continue to operate in accordance to international law against Hamas which systematically operates within civilian infrastructure.

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

@Bkk Brian, I wasn't asking you, but I could. Anyway, I don't understand your question. Nick Carter, icp, and I were discussing the ICJ's investigation and litigation of the charges that Israel is committing genocide and war crimes.

But I asked you are you not going to answer such a simple question?

[Nick Carter icp]

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

@Nick Carter icp, that does not answer my question. Since your answer is very important to me, I'll repeat it with some more information...

You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? 

You hinted at the answer with your comment above, "The IDF /Israel are fighting a war against terrorists who are committing numerous war crimes on a daily basis." 

So, I ask again, What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

 

   Do you oppose war crimes or are you just using those allegations  to attack Israel ?

If you think that war crimes are unacceptable, then you would like to see them stopped .

As you seem to sided with Hamas and their hostage taking and oppose Israel's attempts to free those hostage 

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

But I asked you are you not going to answer such a simple question?

 

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

But I asked you are you not going to answer such a simple question?

Yes, if you insist. You asked, "What's that got to do with Hamas, who are committing war crimes?"

I'm not sure to what the "that" in your question above refers, but I'll assume it was my question to Nick Carter icp, which was "You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, '...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes.'?'"

 

If that's the case, my answer is "nothing." My question to Nick Carter icp has nothing to do with Hamas committing war crimes. It has to do with why he brought up Hamas when I was asking him about Israel committing war crimes.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

 

Yes, if you insist. You asked, "What's that got to do with Hamas, who are committing war crimes?"

I'm not sure to what the "that" in your question above refers, but I'll assume it was my question to Nick Carter icp, which was "You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, '...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes.'?'"

 

If that's the case, my answer is "nothing." My question to Nick Carter icp has nothing to do with Hamas committing war crimes. It has to do with why he brought up Hamas when I was asking him about Israel committing war crimes.

So what war crimes are Hamas committing now? 

 

[WDSmart]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Do you oppose war crimes or are you just using those allegations  to attack Israel ?

If you think that war crimes are unacceptable, then you would like to see them stopped .

As you seem to sided with Hamas and their hostage taking and oppose Israel's attempts to free those hostage 

- I do oppose war crimes. I am not using these allegations to "attack" Israel. I'm using these allegations to try to reveal to you that Israel is engaging in genocide/war crimes.
- Yes, I'd like to see the war crimes stopped. I'd like to see the war stopped, whether the military actions are war crimes or not.
- I do not side with Hamas in their taking of hostages. That is a war crime. I do not oppose Israel's attempts to free the hostages. I do oppose any of Israel's attempts if they are war crimes. I would like to see Israel attempt to free the hostages by negotiating an agreement with Hamas that includes a permanent cease-fire. 

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So what war crimes are Hamas committing now? 

 

Hamas continues to hold hostages. That is a war crime. I don't know if they are committing any other war crimes, but they might be.

 

Edited February 17 by WDSmart

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

- I do oppose war crimes. I am not using these allegations to "attack" Israel. I'm using these allegations to try to reveal to you that Israel is engaging in genocide/war crimes.
- Yes, I'd like to see the war crimes stopped. I'd like to see the war stopped, whether the military actions are war crimes or not.
- I do not side with Hamas in their taking of hostages. That is a war crime. I do not oppose Israel's attempts to free the hostages. I do oppose any of Israel's attempts if they are war crimes. I would like to see Israel attempt to free the hostages by negotiating an agreement with Hamas that includes a permanent cease-fire. 

 

   So you disagree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should immediately release the hostages unconditionally ?

   Those so called war crimes that you oppose, you actually support the war crime committed by Hamas .

  Says it all really , you keep going on about war crimes and the ICJ .

ICJ gives a ruling about war crimes committed by Hamas ,  and you think that ruling should be ignored and the war crimes to continue 

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Hamas continues to hold hostages. That is a war crime. I don't know if they are committing any other war crimes, but they might be.

 

Indeed they are aside from the hostages, they are using hospitals and those inside them as human shields, also a war crime. The IDF says Hamas maintains a command room, an intelligence and interrogation complex, and a police station at Nasser Hospital.

 

IDF entered the hospital to stop them, the IDF have not been committing war crimes doing so,

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   So you disagree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should immediately release the hostages unconditionally ?

   Those so called war crimes that you oppose, you actually support the war crime committed by Hamas .

  Says it all really , you keep going on about war crimes and the ICJ .

ICJ gives a ruling about war crimes committed by Hamas ,  and you think that ruling should be ignored and the war crimes to continue 

@Nick Carter icp, Thanks for your reply. It's not a reply to my question, but it's getting closer and closer to that....

- I do NOT disagree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should release the hostages unconditionally.
- I do NOT support EITHER of the war crimes of which Israel or Hamas are accused.
- The case before the ICJ was a charge levied against Israel, not a charge levied against Hamas.
- I do support the ICJ's interim ruling that Israel should immediately review its military actions to avoid killing civilians and return a report on how they will do that within a month. I also support the ICJ's interim ruling that Hamas should return the hostages unconditionally. To my knowledge, neither of these has been done.

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Indeed they are aside from the hostages, they are using hospitals and those inside them as human shields, also a war crime. The IDF says Hamas maintains a command room, an intelligence and interrogation complex, and a police station at Nasser Hospital.

 

IDF entered the hospital to stop them, the IDF have not been committing war crimes doing so,

So, if IDF says so, that's what we should believe? 

The ICJ has determined in its interim ruling that "...at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention."
https://time.com/6588931/icj-ruling-israel-genocidal-acts-gaza-south-africa/

The ICJ has access to far more information than you or I or any of these Forums have, so, at least for now, I will believe them over the statements of the IDF.
 

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So, if IDF says so, that's what we should believe? 

The ICJ has determined in its interim ruling that "...at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention."
https://time.com/6588931/icj-ruling-israel-genocidal-acts-gaza-south-africa/

The ICJ has access to far more information than you or I or any of these Forums have, so, at least for now, I will believe them over the statements of the IDF.
 

What have the ICJ said about Nasser Hospital? Thats you just deflecting again. You are now down to belief because credible links have been produced. Do you have a source to discredit what they say? 

Edited February 17 by Bkk Brian

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

@Nick Carter icp, Thanks for your reply. It's not a reply to my question, but it's getting closer and closer to that....

- I do NOT disagree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should release the hostages unconditionally.
- I do NOT support EITHER of the war crimes of which Israel or Hamas are accused.
- The case before the ICJ was a charge levied against Israel, not a charge levied against Hamas.
- I do support the ICJ's interim ruling that Israel should immediately review its military actions to avoid killing civilians and return a report on how they will do that within a month. I also support the ICJ's interim ruling that Hamas should return the hostages unconditionally. To my knowledge, neither of these has been done.

So you don't agree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should release the hostages unconditionally which obviously means you also don't agree with the UN Security Council resolution which states the same order.

 

2 International bodies that Hamas refuses to comply with because they are terrorists, murder, rape and committing atrocities is their game, you don't have that excuse, what excuse do you have?

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

25 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

 I would like to see Israel attempt to free the hostages by negotiating an agreement with Hamas that includes a permanent cease-fire. 

 

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

@Nick Carter icp, 

- I do NOT disagree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should release the hostages unconditionally.
 

 

   You have said two contradictory things there .

You are either in favour of Hamas agreeing with the ICJ ruling or you aren't .

You make all these bold statement or what you agree with , then go and contradict yourself by disagreeing with them .

   *I oppose war crimes and support the ICJ's rulings , BUT Hamas should ignore the ICJ rulings and continue with their war crimes*

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

@Nick Carter icp,
- I do support the ICJ's interim ruling that Israel should immediately review its military actions to avoid killing civilians and return a report on how they will do that within a month. I also support the ICJ's interim ruling that Hamas should return the hostages unconditionally. To my knowledge, neither of these has been done.

 

 

   Within a month , Israel needs to report back in a month, in a month from 26 th January .

It is still within the month and Israel doesn't need to report back until 26 th February .

   Hamas were told to immediately  releases the hostages unconditionally .

If Hamas don't comply with any ruling , then why should Israel be expected to ?

[WDSmart]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The ICJ have not said anything about Nasser Hospital, thats you just deflecting again. You are now down to belief because credible links have been produced. Do you have a source to discredit what they say? 

I don't need a source to be leery of what the IDF says. After all, their posts aren't done for to let everyone know what's happening. They only post things that show them in the best light, or give them excuses to do what they do. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I don't need a source to be leery of what the IDF says. After all, their posts aren't done for to let everyone know what's happening. They only post things that show them in the best light, or give them excuses to do what they do. 

So you only believe the ICJ yet it's also ok for Hamas to ignore what the ICJ orders. You have a problem