Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I don't need a source to be leery of what the IDF says. After all, their posts aren't done for to let everyone know what's happening. They only post things that show them in the best light, or give them excuses to do what they do. That is completely untrue . The IDF have reported when they have made mistakes and admitted their errors . Your lot just blame Israel for everything, as you do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: You have said two contradictory things there . You are either in favour of Hamas agreeing with the ICJ ruling or you aren't . You make all these bold statement or what you agree with , then go and contradict yourself by disagreeing with them . *I oppose war crimes and support the ICJ's rulings , BUT Hamas should ignore the ICJ rulings and continue with their war crimes* These are not contradictory statements. I am not in favor of Hamas and do think Hamas should abide by the ICJ's ruling, just as I believe Israel should. After reviewing my previous posts for about 10 minutes, I see you enclosed the "quote" above with *asterisks*, implying that it was not an actual quote of mine. I certainly didn't recall posting that, and I see now that I didn't. It is just your interpretation of what I've posted. So, no, that asterisked "quote" should be, *I oppose war crimes and support the ICJ's rulings, AND Hamas should NOT ignore the ICJ rulings and continue with their war crimes of holding hostages.* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: So you only believe the ICJ yet it's also ok for Hamas to ignore what the ICJ orders. You have a problem I don't understand your post above, except the "You have a problem" accusation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: That is completely untrue . The IDF have reported when they have made mistakes and admitted their errors . Your lot just blame Israel for everything, as you do I don't blame Israel for everything. I do blame Hamas for the Oct 7 terrorist attack and the taking of hostages. I do blame Israel for some things, mostly their indiscriminate bombing of northern Gaza and their continuing military actions, which put the Palestinian civilians at great risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Since neither @Nick Carter icp nor @Bkk Brian answered my question to my satisfaction, I'll answer it for them. The reason that whenever the suggestion that Israel is guilty of some kind of war crime is brought up, you immediately counter by saying Hamas is committing war crimes is because you believe the fact that Hamas committed/is committing war crimes justifies Israel from also committing war crimes. A good example is when several of you talk about Hamas using the Palestinian citizens as "human shields." That is probably true to some extent. But, just because someone or some group is using another group as 'human shields" doesn't give you the right to kill those "human shields" to get to the group you are targeting. You are excusing Israel of committing war crimes because Hamas did them first. It's the "He hit me first!" excuse. Edited February 17 by WDSmart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 minutes ago, WDSmart said: These are not contradictory statements. I am not in favor of Hamas and do think Hamas should abide by the ICJ's ruling, just as I believe Israel should. After reviewing my previous posts for about 10 minutes, I see you enclosed the "quote" above with *asterisks*, implying that it was not an actual quote of mine. I certainly didn't recall posting that, and I see now that I didn't. It is just your interpretation of what I've posted. So, no, that asterisked "quote" should be, *I oppose war crimes and support the ICJ's rulings, AND Hamas should NOT ignore the ICJ rulings and continue with their war crimes of holding hostages.* Quotation marks are used to quote someone " " Asterisk marks are not used to quote someone ** So let me get this straight , you think that Hamas should abide by the ICJ ruling and immediately release the hostages and you also think that Hamas should use the hostages release to negotiate terms for their release . Those are two contradictory opinions 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 22 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I don't understand your post above, except the "You have a problem" accusation. In plain English. According to you Hamas can commit war crimes and not comply with international law despite an international court order. Yet you acuse others of being bias. Why should Hamas be allowed to carry on committing war crimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Just wondering whether after posting and reading so many post containing thousands of for and against arguments, spanning over 4 months, did anyone here changed their minds either way? did any of the poster 'came to see the light' for or against either side?... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, ezzra said: did any of the poster 'came to see the light' for or against either side?... You are joking aren't you? And that is not meant as a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, scottiejohn said: You are joking aren't you? And that is not meant as a joke! Why is it a joke? here we have at least a dozen members arguing, quarreling and disagreeing with each other and i just wanted to know if some or any of the members got persuaded or changed their mind to the original position they were holding, I can't see the joke here... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 24 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Quotation marks are used to quote someone " " Asterisk marks are not used to quote someone ** So let me get this straight , you think that Hamas should abide by the ICJ ruling and immediately release the hostages and you also think that Hamas should use the hostages release to negotiate terms for their release . Those are two contradictory opinions Yes, those are contradictory statements when you put them like that with the "and" in between them. I think Hamas should immediately release the hostages, but (not "and"), I don't believe they will. I think they will use them as bargaining chips in any negotiated resolution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: In plain English. According to you Hamas can commit war crimes and not comply with international law despite an international court order. Yet you acuse others of being bias. Why should Hamas be allowed to carry on committing war crimes? Thanks for the explanation. I think Hamas should comply with international law, with or without a court order, just as I think Israel should. I accuse others of being biased because they are only posting about Hamas war crimes and don't believe Israel has committed any. Hamas should not be allowed to carry on committing war crimes, and neither should Israel, BUT, it is not excusable for Israel or Hamas to commit war crimes in an attempt to stop or punish the other side for committing them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 20 minutes ago, ezzra said: Just wondering whether after posting and reading so many post containing thousands of for and against arguments, spanning over 4 months, did anyone here changed their minds either way? did any of the poster 'came to see the light' for or against either side?... Good question. It's hard to see the "light" on either side here. My posts tend to focus on the "darkness" on Israel's side because most of the others here post about the "darkness" on Hamas' side, which I also see. My posts are an attempt to let them know that everything Israel is doing cannot be justified just because of Hamas' dreadful Oct 7 terrorist attack. There's much, much more to this story than just that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Thanks for the explanation. I think Hamas should comply with international law, with or without a court order, just as I think Israel should. I accuse others of being biased because they are only posting about Hamas war crimes and don't believe Israel has committed any. Hamas should not be allowed to carry on committing war crimes, and neither should Israel, BUT, it is not excusable for Israel or Hamas to commit war crimes in an attempt to stop or punish the other side for committing them. What war crimes have Israel committed ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Thanks for the explanation. I think Hamas should comply with international law, with or without a court order, just as I think Israel should. I accuse others of being biased because they are only posting about Hamas war crimes and don't believe Israel has committed any. Hamas should not be allowed to carry on committing war crimes, and neither should Israel, BUT, it is not excusable for Israel or Hamas to commit war crimes in an attempt to stop or punish the other side for committing them. Israel is in keeping with the "provisional measures" of the ICJ Hamas is NOT in keeping with the "order" of the ICJ What war crimes is Israel carrying out? We all know the war crimes of Hamas since Oct 7th and everyday since 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said: What war crimes have Israel committed ? I've covered this several times in previous posts. I won't quote but paraphrase them here. The ICJ believes South Africa's charges of genocide have enough validity to be investigated further. I think the IDF's indiscriminate bombing of northern Gaza will be found to be a war crime. This Topic's topic is the impending ground invasion of Rafha. If Israel doesn't handle this very carefully, it too may be considered a war crime. We'll all just have to wait and see what happens here. It is already worrisome to many of Israel's allies, including the USA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I've covered this several times in previous posts. I won't quote but paraphrase them here. The ICJ believes South Africa's charges of genocide have enough validity to be investigated further. I think the IDF's indiscriminate bombing of northern Gaza will be found to be a war crime. This Topic's topic is the impending ground invasion of Rafha. If Israel doesn't handle this very carefully, it too may be considered a war crime. We'll all just have to wait and see what happens here. It is already worrisome to many of Israel's allies, including the USA. You are the one that keeps bringing it back up though, whenever we discuss the Rafah situation in depth you then divert into the ICJ which has been covered multiple times in its own topics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I've covered this several times in previous posts. I won't quote but paraphrase them here. The ICJ believes South Africa's charges of genocide have enough validity to be investigated further. I think the IDF's indiscriminate bombing of northern Gaza will be found to be a war crime. This Topic's topic is the impending ground invasion of Rafha. If Israel doesn't handle this very carefully, it too may be considered a war crime. We'll all just have to wait and see what happens here. It is already worrisome to many of Israel's allies, including the USA. You made the accusation that Israel is committing war crimes . As you cannot name them, then you are making a false accusation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 55 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Since neither @Nick Carter icp nor @Bkk Brian answered my question to my satisfaction, I'll answer it for them. The reason that whenever the suggestion that Israel is guilty of some kind of war crime is brought up, you immediately counter by saying Hamas is committing war crimes is because you believe the fact that Hamas committed/is committing war crimes justifies Israel from also committing war crimes. A good example is when several of you talk about Hamas using the Palestinian citizens as "human shields." That is probably true to some extent. But, just because someone or some group is using another group as 'human shields" doesn't give you the right to kill those "human shields" to get to the group you are targeting. You are excusing Israel of committing war crimes because Hamas did them first. It's the "He hit me first!" excuse. Human shields dying in battle isn't a war crime though . Hamas using human shields is a war crime though and Hamas are responsible for any deaths of those human shields . Once again Hama commits war crimes and you pass the blame to Israel and accuse Israel of war crimes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WDSmart Posted February 17 Popular Post Share Posted February 17 17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: You made the accusation that Israel is committing war crimes . As you cannot name them, then you are making a false accusation Genocide... 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WDSmart Posted February 17 Popular Post Share Posted February 17 12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Human shields dying in battle isn't a war crime though . Hamas using human shields is a war crime though and Hamas are responsible for any deaths of those human shields . Once again Hama commits war crimes and you pass the blame to Israel and accuse Israel of war crimes Yes, I put the blame on purposefully killing human shields on Israel, and I call that a war crime. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Popular Post Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: Yes, I put the blame on purposefully killing human shields on Israel, and I call that a war crime. Israel hasn't purposefully been killing Human shields though , Israel have asked the civilians to move away from the war zone , Hamas hasn't been allowing civilians to leave . You can call it whatever you want , but you are wrong about that , its not a war crime for human shields to die, but you can call it whatever you want , but you are wrong 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 45 minutes ago, WDSmart said: My posts are an attempt to let them know that everything Israel is doing cannot be justified just because of Hamas' It is TOTTALLY justified because of Hamas's terrorist actions. End of story! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said: You are the one that keeps bringing it back up though, whenever we discuss the Rafah situation in depth you then divert into the ICJ which has been covered multiple times in its own topics. The ICJ has no relevance whilst this totally provoked war by Hamas and their cohorts etc continues! If you are still bothered try discussing it after Israel hopefully wipes Hamas and all of it's supporters of the face of the earth! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Back on topic then after constant deflection The IDF also releases footage from the interrogation of a captured Hamas operative, who says that at least 10 hostages were held at Nasser Hospital. Released hostages have also testified that they were held at the hospital. Interrogated #Hamas terrorist admits to the organization's use of the Nasser Hospital for terror purposes 'This is another way to say "throw your weapon." The international community has to know what happens in Gaza's hospitals,' explains Col. (Ret.) Amit Assa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, WDSmart said: I've covered this several times in previous posts. I won't quote but paraphrase them here. The ICJ believes South Africa's charges of genocide have enough validity to be investigated further. I think the IDF's indiscriminate bombing of northern Gaza will be found to be a war crime. This Topic's topic is the impending ground invasion of Rafha. If Israel doesn't handle this very carefully, it too may be considered a war crime. We'll all just have to wait and see what happens here. It is already worrisome to many of Israel's allies, including the USA. My opinion is that you desperately wanted Israel to lose a war and to be wiped off the map and you side with the Palestinians and now that Israeli seems to be winning the war, your last hope of victory is that Hamas wins through the legal system . Like, the World Court finds Israel to be guilty of genocide and war crimes and the World Court cancels Israel's right to exist and declares a Palestinian state from the river to the sea , kind of way 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 10 hours ago, WDSmart said: I did know that, but that was not Doron Katz Asher was held at Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, and she reported that another ten hostages were being held there. Nasser Hospital is in Khan Younis. Now, let me ask you four things. When was Doron Katz Asher released? What date was the raid on Nasser Hospital? How many hostages did they find? How many Palestinian's died during that raid? All they have is IDF propaganda released information. IMO it's becoming clear the IDF leadership is not primarily concerned with rescuing hostages alive, but is using them as an excuse to attack hospitals, which I understand is a war crime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, WDSmart said: Genocide... Also preventing enough food and medicine to be sent into Gaza. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: All they have is IDF propaganda released information. IMO it's becoming clear the IDF leadership is not primarily concerned with rescuing hostages alive, but is using them as an excuse to attack hospitals, which I understand is a war crime. This is the reality , Israel attacked the hospital to arrest terrorists IDF arrests over 100 terrorists in Gaza's Nasser hospital The IDF announced on Saturday morning that they had arrested over 100 terrorists in Nasser Hospital during operations in the Gaza Strip and that operations would continue for the foreseeable future. Troops from the 98th Division operating in the Khan Yunis area arrested the terrorists in Nasser Hospital with the support of Shayetet 13 special forces embedded in the Division. Simultaneously, troops from the Maglan and Egoz units eliminated terrorists around the area of the hospital. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/idf-arrests-over-100-terrorists-in-gaza-s-nasser-hospital/ar-BB1ipTCt?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=35f3279d00ad4434a0acc8a6804d20e8&ei=2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 To really sums it up, the Palestinians will never be 'happy' even if you give them the whole of Israel and all the jews will leave back to other countries, there will continue to need billions in aid as 'refugees', would Israel/Jews haters will stop hating and blaming ? Hell no, millions will be continue to look for new reasons to hate Jews because that is what the world did and still do for centuries... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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