placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: I don't think its irrelevant at all. Hamas is using the population as human shields which is a war crime What don't you understand about Eloquent pilgrim's claim that Hamas is still responsible for protecting Gazans because it is the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, placeholder said: What don't you understand about Eloquent pilgrim's claim that Hamas is still responsible for protecting Gazans because it is the government? What is you you don't understand that Hamas is committing war crimes against its own civil population and increasing the huge deaths figures as a result? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said: Really, fantastic news; when did the population of Gaza overthrow their elected government, who have they been replaced with, and does that mean that they have released all the hostages ? I've got news for you. There is at least one other way to overthrow a government elected or not. Do I really have to specify for you what that is? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 The rest of the time; they dress as civilians, and hide amongst them, too. https://twitter.com/YaariCohen/status/1759921476977782837 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said: What is you you don't understand that Hamas is committing war crimes against its own civil population and increasing the huge deaths figures as a result? You've got nothing. You have no answer for the fact that Hamas is no longer governing Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, placeholder said: You've got nothing. You have no answer for the fact that Hamas is no longer governing Gaza. "You've got nothing." Did Hamas tell you that? They still seem to be the ones who are consulted in talks for ceasefires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: What is you you don't understand that Hamas is committing war crimes against its own civil population and increasing the huge deaths figures as a result? As for those huge death figures. As the evidence I provided shows, those huge death figures are largely the result of Israel lowering it's standards and targeting what it calls centers of power as a way to convince the people of Gaza to put pressure on Hamas. There's actually more than that. Israel is now targeting for destruction hones that may harbor even junior members of Hamas without regard to collateral death and injury of civilians. And given that there are probably some 80,000 members of Hamas in Gaza, it pretty much allows Israel to attack any high rise and many private homes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, placeholder said: As for those huge death figures. As the evidence I provided shows, those huge death figures are largely the result of Israel lowering it's standards and targeting what it calls centers of power as a way to convince the people of Gaza to put pressure on Hamas. There's actually more than that. Israel is now targeting for destruction hones that may harbor even junior members of Hamas without regard to collateral death and injury of civilians. And given that there are probably some 80,000 members of Hamas in Gaza, it pretty much allows Israel to attack any high rise and many private homes as well. Really, I have other articles that say otherwise that have already been posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 21 Popular Post Share Posted February 21 5 minutes ago, placeholder said: You have no answer for the fact that Hamas is no longer governing Gaza. Well please tell us all who is then, because I can’t find it on any news outlet anywhere; you stopped posting coherently some time ago, but now you have just descended into total nonsense. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said: Well please tell us all who is then, because I can’t find it on any news outlet anywhere; you stopped posting coherently some time ago, but now you have just descended into total nonsense. Clearly nobody, right? Unless it's Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: Clearly nobody, right? Unless it's Israel. Hamas regroups in northern Gaza to prepare new offensive Militant Palestinian group begins to rebuild system of governance in north after being driven out by Israeli forces https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/30/hamas-returns-northern-gaza-new-offensive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, ozimoron said: Clearly nobody, right? wrong, try again; who do you think is negotiating with Qatar and Egypt, and who do you think is holding the hostages 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, Eloquent pilgrim said: wrong, try again; who do you think is negotiating with Qatar and Egypt, and who do you think is holding the hostages An armed militia negotiing with neighboring countries is not akin to governing a nation state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: An armed militia negotiing with neighboring countries is not akin to governing a nation state. I never new its political wing was also armed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wobblybob Posted February 21 Popular Post Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: An armed militia negotiing with neighboring countries is not akin to governing a nation state. Not to you it isn't, you'd move heaven and Earth to excuse these vile terrorists! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, ozimoron said: An armed militia negotiing with neighboring countries is not akin to governing a nation state. Complete and utter nonsense; the armed militia (terrorist organisation - I know you can’t bring yourself to say it) that you refer to, have been the legitimate government of Gaza for 18 years; they have received widespread support from the citizens of Gaza ever since being elected on a manifesto to eradicate every Jew in the world … remember them all dancing and partying in the streets on 7 and 8 of October 23. They are still the government of Gaza, however you try to spin it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, Eloquent pilgrim said: Complete and utter nonsense; the armed militia (terrorist organisation - I know you can’t bring yourself to say it) that you refer to, have been the legitimate government of Gaza for 18 years; they have received widespread support from the citizens of Gaza ever since being elected on a manifesto to eradicate every Jew in the world … remember them all dancing and partying in the streets on 7 and 8 of October 23. They are still the government of Gaza, however you try to spin it. What bills have Hamas introduced in their parliament since October? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 24 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said: Well please tell us all who is then, because I can’t find it on any news outlet anywhere; you stopped posting coherently some time ago, but now you have just descended into total nonsense. I provided you a link to an extensive article that discusses the issue of what are the criteria that need to be met to be considered an occupying power. If that article is your idea of incoherence, I'm not surprised at all by your characterization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Not since the Romans expelled the Jews. Since then it's been occupied by different peoples. On the basis that if a certain people occupied the land 2,000 years ago they still own it now, the English should give their land back to the Celts. Or American back to the Indians and Australia back too the aborigines 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 9 minutes ago, retarius said: Or American back to the Indians and Australia back too the aborigines The difference is both countries have a single state system without apartheid. Your analogy falls short (of relevance). Edited February 21 by ozimoron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/17/2024 at 6:05 PM, ezzra said: Why is it a joke? here we have at least a dozen members arguing, quarreling and disagreeing with each other and i just wanted to know if some or any of the members got persuaded or changed their mind to the original position they were holding, I can't see the joke here... I think the answer is no, no one has changed their minds. People like me, who are revolted by the slaughter of innocents are not persuaded by arguments that attempt to justify the slaughter who argue that Israel is right every time it comments an atrocity. It's like tow football fans arguing, neither win change their support for their team because of the other's arguments. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/18/2024 at 6:01 AM, ezzra said: To really sums it up, the Palestinians will never be 'happy' even if you give them the whole of Israel and all the jews will leave back to other countries, there will continue to need billions in aid as 'refugees', would Israel/Jews haters will stop hating and blaming ? Hell no, millions will be continue to look for new reasons to hate Jews because that is what the world did and still do for centuries... Very stupid to call anyone who disagree with slaughter of innocents as 'Israel/Jew haters'. I disagree with the slaughter and wish it would stop, end off story. I cannot understand tpeople who try to justify it, especially those that take the easy route, avoid arguing the morals and call everyone who disagrees with the Jew Haters. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, retarius said: Very stupid to call anyone who disagree with slaughter of innocents as 'Israel/Jew haters'. I disagree with the slaughter and wish it would stop, end off story. I cannot understand tpeople who try to justify it, especially those that take the easy route, avoid arguing the morals and call everyone who disagrees with the Jew Haters. Indeed. Demonizing the opposition is tried and true tactic of war criminals and those who defend them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, placeholder said: You have no answer for the fact that Hamas is no longer governing Gaza This is blatantly untrue; it is fake news, what is your source for this, please provide evidence 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 14 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said: This is blatantly untrue; it is fake news, what is your source for this, please provide evidence You seem to believe that unless Hamas officially abandoned it's claim to governance, then it is still the government of Gaza. As far as the determination of an occupying power is concerned, this is false. Which you would know if you had read the link I posted. Determining who who is in charge of a war zone is ultimately based on reality. Who is effectively in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: You seem to believe that unless Hamas officially abandoned it's claim to governance, then it is still the government of Gaza. As far as the determination of an occupying power is concerned, this is false. Which you would know if you had read the link I posted. Determining who who is in charge of a war zone is ultimately based on reality. Who is effectively in charge. Hamas are still the official defacto governing body until they are not officially anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said: Hamas are still the official defacto governing body until they are not officially anymore. "Official defacto"? It is to laugh. I think you need to look up what de facto means. In fact, because Israel exerted so much control over Gaza even when the Hamas government was in power, Israel was widely held to be the occupying power of Gaza. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, placeholder said: "Official defacto"? It is to laugh. I think you need to look up what de facto means. In fact, because Israel exerted so much control over Gaza even when the Hamas government was in power, Israel was widely held to be the occupying power of Gaza. Laugh away . HAMAS has been the de facto governing body in the Gaza Strip since 2007, when it ousted the Palestinian Authority from power. OPERATING AREAS Primarily in Gaza; also maintains a presence in the West Bank; Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon; and key regional capitals, such as Doha, Qatar, and Cairo, Egypt. https://www.dni.gov/nctc/ftos/hamas_fto.html#:~:text=HAMAS has been the de,the Palestinian Authority from power.&text=Primarily in Gaza%3B also maintains,Qatar%2C and Cairo%2C Egypt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said: Laugh away . HAMAS has been the de facto governing body in the Gaza Strip since 2007, when it ousted the Palestinian Authority from power. OPERATING AREAS Primarily in Gaza; also maintains a presence in the West Bank; Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon; and key regional capitals, such as Doha, Qatar, and Cairo, Egypt. https://www.dni.gov/nctc/ftos/hamas_fto.html#:~:text=HAMAS has been the de,the Palestinian Authority from power.&text=Primarily in Gaza%3B also maintains,Qatar%2C and Cairo%2C Egypt. Did you actually read the entirety of what you posted? If you had you would have noticed that according to this website the most recent of Hamas attacks on Israel took place in 2022. Since you apparently haven't bothered to look up what "de facto" means,here's a definition with an apt example: "in fact, or in effect, whether by right or not." "the island has been de facto divided into two countries" https://www.google.com/search?q=de+facto&oq=de+facto&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRhBMgYIAhBFGDzSAQg3MDE3ajBqNKgCALACAA&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, placeholder said: Did you actually read the entirety of what you posted? If you had you would have noticed that according to this website the most recent of Hamas attacks on Israel took place in 2022. Since you apparently haven't bothered to look up what "de facto" means,here's a definition with an apt example: "in fact, or in effect, whether by right or not." "the island has been de facto divided into two countries" https://www.google.com/search?q=de+facto&oq=de+facto&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRhBMgYIAhBFGDzSAQg3MDE3ajBqNKgCALACAA&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Yes I read it and? Yes I know the meaning and? Since when was it ousted from that roll officially. I was not aware Israel had declared victory. Last I heard Hamas was still invited for ceasefire talks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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