Personal Income Tax Guide (for foreigners) Thailand

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

Perhaps you want to have a look at this 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm33520

 

(assuming you may consider the UK still as "first world" .....)

Thanks....as I suspected.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

 

Alan earns $50,000 in the US and sends the money to Thailand to buy a condo.  Assessable?

 

Bill earms $50,000 which he puts in his US bank account.  He borrows $50,000 from another bank and sends that money to Thailand to buy a condo.  Later, he clears the debt from his primary account using the money he earnt.  Assessable?

 

PH

Regarding Alan....the tax guide says, in Para 31:

 

INCOME FOR REAL ESTATE PURCHASE

 

31) The Thai Revenue Department does not consider the purpose of the funds that are imported, only whether the funds are assessable or not. For example, funds imported to buy real estate will be addressed in the same way that imported funds for any purpose will be, there's nothing special about the fact those funds are buying property versus anything else.

 

Regarding Bill:

 

Bill is an idiot, he went to the bank and borrowed money when he already had it in the bank., Bill doesn't deserve a condo and should be taxed under any circumstances.

[Phulublub]

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Regarding Alan....the tax guide says, in Para 31:

 

INCOME FOR REAL ESTATE PURCHASE

 

31) The Thai Revenue Department does not consider the purpose of the funds that are imported, only whether the funds are assessable or not. For example, funds imported to buy real estate will be addressed in the same way that imported funds for any purpose will be, there's nothing special about the fact those funds are buying property versus anything else.

 

Regarding Bill:

 

Bill is an idiot, he went to the bank and borrowed money when he already had it in the bank., Bill doesn't deserve a condo and should be taxed under any circumstances.

I only used "..to buy a condo..." as a follow on to JimGant's post as he used that as an example.  I agree the prupose is irrelevent.

 

Both Alan and Bill have remitted funds to Thailand.  The ultimate source of those funds is earned (assessable) income.  That BIll does so by a circuitous route is, perhaps, exactly the sort of "clever ruse" that tax authorities the world over are trying to eradicate.

 

PH

[mran66]

51)... However, Income that was earned in a year when they were not tax resident but is remitted in a subsequent year, is not taxable under Thai tax rules.

 

Was not aware of this, thought would need to be out for 6+mo every year when want to send cash, however according to this, if out 6mo this year, also next year's remittance is not taxable. As long as this rule remains, out for mo every few years will sort out twx issues. 

[mran66]

51)... However, Income that was earned in a year when they were not tax resident but is remitted in a subsequent year, is not taxable under Thai tax rules.

 

Was not aware of this, thought would need to be out for 6+mo every year when want to send cash, however according to this, if out 6mo this year, also next year's remittance is not taxable. As long as this rule remains, out for mo every few years will sort out twx issues. 

[Mike Lister]

21 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

I only used "..to buy a condo..." as a follow on to JimGant's post as he used that as an example.  I agree the prupose is irrelevent.

 

Both Alan and Bill have remitted funds to Thailand.  The ultimate source of those funds is earned (assessable) income.  That BIll does so by a circuitous route is, perhaps, exactly the sort of "clever ruse" that tax authorities the world over are trying to eradicate.

 

PH

Exactly that, I agree.

[Mike Lister]

15 minutes ago, mran66 said:

51)... However, Income that was earned in a year when they were not tax resident but is remitted in a subsequent year, is not taxable under Thai tax rules.

 

Was not aware of this, thought would need to be out for 6+mo every year when want to send cash, however according to this, if out 6mo this year, also next year's remittance is not taxable. As long as this rule remains, out for mo every few years will sort out twx issues. 

The key issue is tax residency in the year the income was earned. If not tax resident during that year, no tax liability exists when the income is finally remitted (subject to the usual criteria regarding tax paid in country where the income arose).

[mran66]

11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The key issue is tax residency in the year the income was earned. If not tax resident during that year, no tax liability exists when the income is finally remitted (subject to the usual criteria regarding tax paid in country where the income arose).

 

Okay... maybe I understood wrong some earlier communication about this (last year) as I understood the remitted is taxable regardless when it was earned IF earned after end of 2023. Anyway I did my preparations last year for the next 2-3 years so that can wait how the whole thing plays out. But this 'reset' can be done repetitively by staying out 6mo a year every now and then, and fixes the issue unless indeed they would change the legistlation to institute global tax liability.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, mran66 said:

 

Okay... maybe I understood wrong some earlier communication about this (last year) as I understood the remitted is taxable regardless when it was earned IF earned after end of 2023. Anyway I did my preparations last year for the next 2-3 years so that can wait how the whole thing plays out. But this 'reset' can be done repetitively by staying out 6mo a year every now and then, and fixes the issue unless indeed they would change the legistlation to institute global tax liability.

There is a a related issue that is pending and which is included on the list of known unknows:

 

L) - income that is earned in a year when the taxpayer is tax resident but not remitted until a year when they are not tax resident, is it later tax assessible in Thailand?

 

This needs further research and probably input from the TRD. I'm pretty certain that a person cannot escape tax, simply by remitting funds when they are not tax resident but exactly how that mechanism will work, is unclear.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Bill is an idiot, he went to the bank and borrowed money when he already had it in the bank., Bill doesn't deserve a condo and should be taxed under any circumstances.

 

Actually, many of us take out loans to preserve our liquid cash position. Bill was especially astute, since this was a case of bringing a loan into Thailand -- or bringing assessable (taxable) income into Thailand. In the former, there's no tax liability up front -- and realistically, no tax liability years down the road when the loan is paid back, by either assessable (but not remitted) or by non assessable income. Thus, a loan bypasses a taxable event. So, once again I say -- FDI, or "foreign investment", if you desire -- is free from Thai taxes. And this is how they want it, as FDI is a powerful economic stimulus.

 

And the poor cousin of FDI, i.e., credit card purchases, is also not going to be taxed. At least not under any realistic scenario.

 

That the Brits -- and apparently they're the only ones -- have a taxation situation with remittances and credit card purchases -- is a curious situation. That certainly doesn't mean Thailand is emulating this scenario, as they've the whole rest of the OECD community to emulate.

 

But, if you're worried your visa will be cancelled, if you don't report your credit card purchases as assessable income -- well, go for it.

[UKresonant]

10 hours ago, mran66 said:

 

Okay... maybe I understood wrong some earlier communication about this (last year) as I understood the remitted is taxable regardless when it was earned IF earned after end of 2023. Anyway I did my preparations last year for the next 2-3 years so that can wait how the whole thing plays out. But this 'reset' can be done repetitively by staying out 6mo a year every now and then, and fixes the issue unless indeed they would change the legistlation to institute global tax liability.

I think the only sure thing going forward  for me, is the income/assessable earned whilst not Thai tax resident, (whilst being Tax resident in the UK) isolating that principle money, for future remittance, with no interest added. Then a base load of;- Thai personal allowances + 150k Zero band + one small exempt pension. 

 

I have have found my location days spread sheet, and will keep it up to date again. It would appear, supprisingly, my longest tax year attendance appears to be 245 days!

 

Hope they keep it remittance basis, as if it becomes global would it be worth it for a historical extra 66 days....

 

 

[aussienam]

If this all gets implemented then it is truly and utterly f****d. 

Privately funded pension in Australia - do not get taxed in Oz.  I don't have a government pension. My assets exceed the threshold (I don't own a primary residence in Oz) to eventually be eligible for an old age pension too at 67 yrs (and Oz you need to go back for 2 years to be eligible).  

 

I have been slowly pushing my investments into my Superannuation fund over the years.  Contribution amounts allowed into the fund are capped yearly, so a slow process.  My goal was to maximize my allowable contribution balance limit into Super to generate a reasonably comfortable tax-free pension until I die and no more BS with tax and tax returns. 

All my investments have been from a lifetime of taxed income, taxed investments and profits, and a disability compensation lumpsum, supposedly to last me about 10-15 years of salary.   

 

Now, my strategy to enjoy my retirement years with a fuss-free pension now looks like my money put into it, will be yet again be subjected to tax - in Thailand.  WTF. I already paid a sh*t ton of taxes in Oz before this money has been/will be pushed into a pension fund.  

 

My property, I aim to sell in a few years. There will be expected capital gains.  My idea was to use the proceeds of the sale, with its gains, to eventually buy a nice condominium or a company titled house/villa somewhere in Thailand.  But, there is no F*****G way I am paying 35% tax in Thailand to buy a property over 5 M Baht.  Even if it was 10% tax.  That's an instant equivalent capital loss and a huge increase in what we pay as a foreigner compared to a Thai or a wealthy person possessing a LTR visa.  You would have to have rocks in your head to accept that sort of exorbitant tax to just buy a property!

 

I also thought maybe one day buying a nice car in Thailand off the proceeds of my sale.  Nope.  No F*****G way.  If I have to pay a stupidly excessive income tax on a vehicle purchase, then forget it.  Not worth it. 

 

Two things just there that instantly reduce quality of life expectations.

 

I'm hardly bringing any money into Thailand this year.  Why the hell risk it?  The cost of living here has just ramped up if this goes ahead. 

 

Yeah .... generous tax exemptions as a consolation.  What a joke.  Pensioners and other self funded retirees came here to escape high costs of living and relax after a life of paying taxes.

 

Even with DTA, it doesn't remove the history of taxes already paid on incomes and investments that have been pushed into retirement funds that pay tax-free pensions, if those pensions aren't exempt.  

 

What benefits would Thailand provide to a foreigner tax-paying resident?  I pay VAT, I pay taxes on road registration already.  I get fees deducted from the bank.  I spend all my remitted money when here.  

 

Phillipines I suppose.  Hoping they don't pull the same thing there. But so far doesn't seem the case.  

 

I'm sitting on my hands for now.  Not committing anything beyond essential living costs in Thailand.  See how this tax year pans out.  See if the Thai RD want to actively enforce this.  Spending a few months abroad too to reduce time in Thailand. 

99% of expats in Thailand will be doing just that - wait and see.  Not actively going to the RD and asking for a Tax ID number.  If RD want to rope every 179 + day expat in, they'll do it with visa renewals.  Simple.  

Or, RD will not want to cause an exodus and leave it as it has been for decades.

 

Being out of Thailand during the Thai tax lodgement period as well complicates things.  

 

 

[Mike Lister]

13 minutes ago, aussienam said:

If this all gets implemented then it is truly and utterly f****d. 

Privately funded pension in Australia - do not get taxed in Oz.  I don't have a government pension. My assets exceed the threshold (I don't own a primary residence in Oz) to eventually be eligible for an old age pension too at 67 yrs (and Oz you need to go back for 2 years to be eligible).  

 

I have been slowly pushing my investments into my Superannuation fund over the years.  Contribution amounts allowed into the fund are capped yearly, so a slow process.  My goal was to maximize my allowable contribution balance limit into Super to generate a reasonably comfortable tax-free pension until I die and no more BS with tax and tax returns. 

All my investments have been from a lifetime of taxed income, taxed investments and profits, and a disability compensation lumpsum, supposedly to last me about 10-15 years of salary.   

 

Now, my strategy to enjoy my retirement years with a fuss-free pension now looks like my money put into it, will be yet again be subjected to tax - in Thailand.  WTF. I already paid a sh*t ton of taxes in Oz before this money has been/will be pushed into a pension fund.  

 

My property, I aim to sell in a few years. There will be expected capital gains.  My idea was to use the proceeds of the sale, with its gains, to eventually buy a nice condominium or a company titled house/villa somewhere in Thailand.  But, there is no F*****G way I am paying 35% tax in Thailand to buy a property over 5 M Baht.  Even if it was 10% tax.  That's an instant equivalent capital loss and a huge increase in what we pay as a foreigner compared to a Thai or a wealthy person possessing a LTR visa.  You would have to have rocks in your head to accept that sort of exorbitant tax to just buy a property!

 

I also thought maybe one day buying a nice car in Thailand off the proceeds of my sale.  Nope.  No F*****G way.  If I have to pay a stupidly excessive income tax on a vehicle purchase, then forget it.  Not worth it. 

 

Two things just there that instantly reduce quality of life expectations.

 

I'm hardly bringing any money into Thailand this year.  Why the hell risk it?  The cost of living here has just ramped up if this goes ahead. 

 

Yeah .... generous tax exemptions as a consolation.  What a joke.  Pensioners and other self funded retirees came here to escape high costs of living and relax after a life of paying taxes.

 

Even with DTA, it doesn't remove the history of taxes already paid on incomes and investments that have been pushed into retirement funds that pay tax-free pensions, if those pensions aren't exempt.  

 

What benefits would Thailand provide to a foreigner tax-paying resident?  I pay VAT, I pay taxes on road registration already.  I get fees deducted from the bank.  I spend all my remitted money when here.  

 

Phillipines I suppose.  Hoping they don't pull the same thing there. But so far doesn't seem the case.  

 

I'm sitting on my hands for now.  Not committing anything beyond essential living costs in Thailand.  See how this tax year pans out.  See if the Thai RD want to actively enforce this.  Spending a few months abroad too to reduce time in Thailand. 

99% of expats in Thailand will be doing just that - wait and see.  Not actively going to the RD and asking for a Tax ID number.  If RD want to rope every 179 + day expat in, they'll do it with visa renewals.  Simple.  

Or, RD will not want to cause an exodus and leave it as it has been for decades.

 

Being out of Thailand during the Thai tax lodgement period as well complicates things.  

 

 

So excitable!

 

There is a separate discussion on tax for Australians, it may help you to join that debate.

[rogersplash]

hey there! How can I prove that I had earned the money before 31.12.2023? Is a list of assets from the bank dated December 31, 2023 accepted? Do I need it to translate to English or Thai? My bank statement would be in German. Can I use the same bank statement for several years till there is no more assets on the bank? In other words, can I transfer this amount of money to Thailand without paying taxes till there is no more assets on the bank? Thanks and kind Regards!

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, rogersplash said:

hey there! How can I prove that I had earned the money before 31.12.2023? Is a list of assets from the bank dated December 31, 2023 accepted? Do I need it to translate to English or Thai? My bank statement would be in German. Can I use the same bank statement for several years till there is no more assets on the bank? In other words, can I transfer this amount of money to Thailand without paying taxes till there is no more assets on the bank? Thanks and kind Regards!

Yes, yes and yes. That is not to say that the Thai RD wont introduce new rules later but as things stand currently, that's the way it appears.

 

EDIT TO ADD: No need to translate copies of anything until asked, potentially never needed. Just make sure you know what is what.

[indieke]

I have a question. some things seam clear, others not. I got a list from Belgian embassy, and that is you have to declare your income, or part of it, you get from Belgian and then NOT to be double taxed, give proof. This proof, has to be translated and certified by the Embassy! Cost cost on things that have been payed in land of origin already. The rates in Belgium are very high. 

 

But please enlighten me on this. I transfer amounts to Thailand. But I have no INCOME! Nothing, zero zero.

 

On onher fb forums there is discussions what to do in this case. If I understand well, I only have to ask a Tin, if I consider myself to fall in to the category of being obliged to.

 

Transfer on themself are not taxable. How can I not have income? It is particular. I am 64, and been mostly independent.  I have sold my property 2 years ago, and on that alone, can live easy for 10 years here. Money from before,  inheritance, selling my company, years ago has been BORROWED to a company. The company bought with it serviced apartments.    They cash the rent, pay taxes in Europe, but they pay me back, without INTEREST, over the next 20 years. So this and many years, I can easily live on this.

 

My proof is a contract signed with the company, a statement from director, and most important the balance sheet of the company showing the debt towards me.

 

So, I can just leave it like that, considered I have no gain, just my own money is returned over 20 years? No need to ask for Tin? And if they find me, I just explain, why I not fill in a tax document?  

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, indieke said:

I have a question. some things seam clear, others not. I got a list from Belgian embassy, and that is you have to declare your income, or part of it, you get from Belgian and then NOT to be double taxed, give proof. This proof, has to be translated and certified by the Embassy! Cost cost on things that have been payed in land of origin already. The rates in Belgium are very high. 

 

But please enlighten me on this. I transfer amounts to Thailand. But I have no INCOME! Nothing, zero zero.

 

On onher fb forums there is discussions what to do in this case. If I understand well, I only have to ask a Tin, if I consider myself to fall in to the category of being obliged to.

 

Transfer on themself are not taxable. How can I not have income? It is particular. I am 64, and been mostly independent.  I have sold my property 2 years ago, and on that alone, can live easy for 10 years here. Money from before,  inheritance, selling my company, years ago has been BORROWED to a company. The company bought with it serviced apartments.    They cash the rent, pay taxes in Europe, but they pay me back, without INTEREST, over the next 20 years. So this and many years, I can easily live on this.

 

My proof is a contract signed with the company, a statement from director, and most important the balance sheet of the company showing the debt towards me.

 

So, I can just leave it like that, considered I have no gain, just my own money is returned over 20 years? No need to ask for Tin? And if they find me, I just explain, why I not fill in a tax document?  

Your first step is to read the document in the OP, it is linked below for convenience, have you done that yet?

 

Please confirm the above and then we''ll see what questions need answers.

 

 

[Lacessit]

I am waiting to hear from any poster who has gone to Immigration for a retirement extension, and has been told they must have a Thai tax number for the extension to be approved.

[indieke]

19 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Your first step is to read the document in the OP, it is linked below for convenience, have you done that yet?

 

Please confirm the above and then we''ll see what questions need answers.

 

 

 

In fact I have yes. All of it. First it is very long. Second, my native tongue is not English, so I could have misinterpreted some things. And about my question, I have thought that if you have no taxable INCOME (not transfer), no declaration is needed in my case. But on other places they say opposite, that as a foreigner here over 180 days, have to anyway.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, indieke said:

 

In fact I have yes. All of it. First it is very long. Second, my native tongue is not English, so I could have misinterpreted some things. And about my question, I have thought that if you have no taxable INCOME (not transfer), no declaration is needed in my case. But on other places they say opposite, that as a foreigner here over 180 days, have to anyway.

Ok thanks for that.

 

You are correct, if you have no assessable income that is transferred to Thailand, you do not need to file a Thai tax return. Only income that is transferred to Thailand requires tax assessment, any income that remains outside of Thailand does not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[topt]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am waiting to hear from any poster who has gone to Immigration for a retirement extension, and has been told they must have a Thai tax number for the extension to be approved.

There are always "rogue" offices that make up their own requirements but otherwise personally I think you will be waiting a long time.........potentially a very long time.

I just did my extension 2 weeks ago and no issue. 

[Mahk]

I've recently begun to look at the possibility of retiring.  I'm an American and my entire retirement will be based on U.S. Dividends, Interest, and Capital Gains, with zero pensions.

If I'm looking at what you posted along with the Double Tax Agreement posts from the RD (which you also posted), I'm confused on how it works and am looking for further guidance...

 

As far as dividends and interest go, it looks like one of these two scenarios may play out:

1:  U.S. taxes my dividends at 15%, I transfer the funds to Thailand and due to the DTA, I pay no taxes in Thailand on it.

2:  U.S. taxes my dividends at 15%, I transfer the funds to Thailand and Thailand sees that I make more than 5mil Baht/year and wants 35% tax minus the 15% I already paid to the U.S.

As far as Capital Gains go, I can't really find anything about that in the DTA, but long term Capital Gains in the U.S. will be taxed at 15% for me.

Any thoughts?

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Mahk said:

I've recently begun to look at the possibility of retiring.  I'm an American and my entire retirement will be based on U.S. Dividends, Interest, and Capital Gains, with zero pensions.

If I'm looking at what you posted along with the Double Tax Agreement posts from the RD (which you also posted), I'm confused on how it works and am looking for further guidance...

 

As far as dividends and interest go, it looks like one of these two scenarios may play out:

1:  U.S. taxes my dividends at 15%, I transfer the funds to Thailand and due to the DTA, I pay no taxes in Thailand on it.

2:  U.S. taxes my dividends at 15%, I transfer the funds to Thailand and Thailand sees that I make more than 5mil Baht/year and wants 35% tax minus the 15% I already paid to the U.S.

As far as Capital Gains go, I can't really find anything about that in the DTA, but long term Capital Gains in the U.S. will be taxed at 15% for me.

Any thoughts?

Have you read the document in the OP, the very first post because that is your starting point for further question?

 

The tax rates in Thailand are stepped or tiered, the first 150k is zero rated, the next 150k is taxed at 5% and so on up the scale. So when you say you will be taxed at 35% on 5 million, that is not correct, 35% is the top tier but it is not the effective tax rate.

 

My comments below are subject to the terms of your country's DTA with Thailand, which I have not read and the contents of which, may effect the answer.

 

Dividend income from sources outside Thailand is taxed in Thailand at Personal Income Tax rates, and any overseas tax already paid will be credited and used as an offset against tax due. Conformation of this exists in the link following link:  https://sherrings.com/dividend-income-personal-income-tax-thailand.html. This means your answer number 2 is mostly correct except the effective tax rate would be lower than 35%-15%. Also, any income/dividends earned before 1 January 2024, is exempt.

 

Capital Gains in Thailand is taxed at Personal Income Tax (PIT) rates which once again means stepped or tiered rates of tax. And once again, all income earned prior to 1 January 2024 is exempt from Thai tax. If you have an effective means of separating principal and interest, within any capital gains, the principal will be tax free but the interest will be taxable using PIT rates. Note: it is unclear at this moment whether the Thai RD will use apportionment when Capital Gains are remitted to Thailand, rather than using a separation of principle and interest but the latter seems safe under any circumstances.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

I will add to Para 38, Dividend Income, to make more clear the taxation of domestic and overseas dividends.

 

Dividend income from sources outside Thailand is taxed here at PIT rates using the stepped tax tables. Any overseas tax already paid will be credited and used as an offset against any Thai tax that is due. Conformation of this exists in the link following link:  https://sherrings.com/dividend-income-personal-income-tax-thailand.html. Any dividends paid before 1 January 2024, is exempt.

[BebFr]

I would like to know if the Wise THB account is considered in Thailand ? 

My Wise $ account is in US, my Wise € account is in EU, but for THB, I cannot find the information.

 

So if I transfer in Wise $ to THB, do I transfer money from abroad to Thailand ?

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, BebFr said:

I would like to know if the Wise THB account is considered in Thailand ? 

My Wise $ account is in US, my Wise € account is in EU, but for THB, I cannot find the information.

 

So if I transfer in Wise $ to THB, do I transfer money from abroad to Thailand ?

Yes, because THB is a restricted currency hence the exchange for delivery purposes is made in Thailand, not overseas.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

54 minutes ago, BebFr said:

I would like to know if the Wise THB account is considered in Thailand ? 

My Wise $ account is in US, my Wise € account is in EU, but for THB, I cannot find the information.

 

So if I transfer in Wise $ to THB, do I transfer money from abroad to Thailand ?

Wise have an excellent response team - email them any question (if you have an account) and they will usually answer within a day or two. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

19 hours ago, aussienam said:

If this all gets implemented then it is truly and utterly f****d. 

Privately funded pension in Australia - do not get taxed in Oz.  I don't have a government pension. My assets exceed the threshold (I don't own a primary residence in Oz) to eventually be eligible for an old age pension too at 67 yrs (and Oz you need to go back for 2 years to be eligible).  

 

I have been slowly pushing my investments into my Superannuation fund over the years.  Contribution amounts allowed into the fund are capped yearly, so a slow process.  My goal was to maximize my allowable contribution balance limit into Super to generate a reasonably comfortable tax-free pension until I die and no more BS with tax and tax returns. 

All my investments have been from a lifetime of taxed income, taxed investments and profits, and a disability compensation lumpsum, supposedly to last me about 10-15 years of salary.   

 

Now, my strategy to enjoy my retirement years with a fuss-free pension now looks like my money put into it, will be yet again be subjected to tax - in Thailand.  WTF. I already paid a sh*t ton of taxes in Oz before this money has been/will be pushed into a pension fund.  

 

My property, I aim to sell in a few years. There will be expected capital gains.  My idea was to use the proceeds of the sale, with its gains, to eventually buy a nice condominium or a company titled house/villa somewhere in Thailand.  But, there is no F*****G way I am paying 35% tax in Thailand to buy a property over 5 M Baht.  Even if it was 10% tax.  That's an instant equivalent capital loss and a huge increase in what we pay as a foreigner compared to a Thai or a wealthy person possessing a LTR visa.  You would have to have rocks in your head to accept that sort of exorbitant tax to just buy a property!

 

I also thought maybe one day buying a nice car in Thailand off the proceeds of my sale.  Nope.  No F*****G way.  If I have to pay a stupidly excessive income tax on a vehicle purchase, then forget it.  Not worth it. 

 

Two things just there that instantly reduce quality of life expectations.

 

I'm hardly bringing any money into Thailand this year.  Why the hell risk it?  The cost of living here has just ramped up if this goes ahead. 

 

Yeah .... generous tax exemptions as a consolation.  What a joke.  Pensioners and other self funded retirees came here to escape high costs of living and relax after a life of paying taxes.

 

Even with DTA, it doesn't remove the history of taxes already paid on incomes and investments that have been pushed into retirement funds that pay tax-free pensions, if those pensions aren't exempt.  

 

What benefits would Thailand provide to a foreigner tax-paying resident?  I pay VAT, I pay taxes on road registration already.  I get fees deducted from the bank.  I spend all my remitted money when here.  

 

Phillipines I suppose.  Hoping they don't pull the same thing there. But so far doesn't seem the case.  

 

I'm sitting on my hands for now.  Not committing anything beyond essential living costs in Thailand.  See how this tax year pans out.  See if the Thai RD want to actively enforce this.  Spending a few months abroad too to reduce time in Thailand. 

99% of expats in Thailand will be doing just that - wait and see.  Not actively going to the RD and asking for a Tax ID number.  If RD want to rope every 179 + day expat in, they'll do it with visa renewals.  Simple.  

Or, RD will not want to cause an exodus and leave it as it has been for decades.

Being out of Thailand during the Thai tax lodgement period as well complicates things.  

Lots of issues there mate - and I hear you - and no one knows everything that is for sure.

 

I can say this - your Super is taxed at 15% of the nett earnings if it is in 'accumulation phase' - the Super Fund pays the ATO direct on its total amount of earnings in all accounts in the accumulation phase . But there is no detail on taxes paid by each account holder - so proving that tax has been paid to TRD would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.  If or when you transition to 'retirement phase' and receive regular scheduled payments, your account earnings is tax free (but that money becomes taxable income for ATO and DHS purposes - not taxed but counted). 

 

The issues related to your property and capital gains taxes are far more complicated and you would need to get taxation advice from a tax specialist - when things pan out.  Your idea to keep your head down and be quiet is very good - and all Expats should follow that advice. As things progress I am sure TRD will clarifiy things - if only through the Courts as this progresses over the next few years.

 

Regarding other countries - both Malaysia and Philippines have stated that they have no intention of applying income taxes against the money that Retired Expats bring into their countries. However, how that actually plays out in each country, given that this is all about stopping global tax avoidance, is uncertain - clearly the 'wait and see' method is the best approach.  

[BebFr]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Wise have an excellent response team - email them any question (if you have an account) and they will usually answer within a day or two. 

Answer from Wise: 

"The law and regulation of your Wise account should follow the regulations based on your registered address."

[Mike Lister]

15 minutes ago, BebFr said:

Answer from Wise: 

"The law and regulation of your Wise account should follow the regulations based on your registered address."

There is a difference between showing THB for example in an account balance and actually taking delivery of the currency. THB is traded around the world but not actually for delivery. So if you ask whether the Baht in your THB account is assessable income, my answer is no, unless you actually take delivery of it in Thailand, at that point the currency has been remitted, until then it hasn't.