Personal Income Tax Guide (for foreigners) Thailand

[Mike Lister]

I have decluttered the thread and hidden 10 posts from view, only because they didn't contain any truly relevant information and were mostly chatty, thank you's etc. I hope I haven't offended anyone, if I have and you want yours restored, please feel free to say so. It's just that I want to keep the thread easily searchable and readable for new comers.

[kiever]

I have Thai elite visa. It also has exemption?

[thaimacky]

Two questions that I haven't found an answer to yet:

1. I am retired early and married in Thailand. My mother who does not live in Thailand pays for our children's education. Until now she had sent the money to my Thai account and I then transferred it to the schools. I would have to pay taxes on this money from now on, right? Are these school fees also subject to tax law if my mother transfers the money directly to the school using an international bank transfer?

2. How is inherited money treated when I send it to Thailand?

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

As has been noted before, there is no penalty for not filing if you do NOT have assessible income...why get a Tax Number and file a "zero" form if there is no penalty.  However IF the govt decides that WE must have a TN if we have certain incomes in order to move through immigration, then year WE will have to get a TN and do what paperwork they want unless we decide to a friendlier tax countr.  Funny, I just received an article talking about the 10 most desired countries 2024 in the world.  Thailand was number 6 and it said that while there are a few immigration complaints, taxation was avoidable by getting an LTR visa but of course they didn't say if that was easy, cheap or whatever.  But as a last resort, if you meet the necessary requirements for that visa, by royal decree you won't need to pay taxes while in Thailand to the Thais.

We've been thru this a few times already. The fact that there is no penalty for not filing a zero return, does not override the instruction by the RD regarding who must file a return. We cannot give advice that is counter to RD rules, even if posters think their alternate approach is more logical. 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, thaimacky said:

Two questions that I haven't found an answer to yet:

1. I am retired early and married in Thailand. My mother who does not live in Thailand pays for our children's education. Until now she had sent the money to my Thai account and I then transferred it to the schools. I would have to pay taxes on this money from now on, right? Are these school fees also subject to tax law if my mother transfers the money directly to the school using an international bank transfer?

2. How is inherited money treated when I send it to Thailand?

Another nice and easy one I see! :)

 

I'll need to do some digging on this, unless others know? The bits I do know are that inheritance in Thailand is exempt up to a maximum but I don't know how that plays out with the overseas angle. 

 

School fees are also deductible but only if paid by the parents. It might be that your mother can gift you those funds and they would be tax exempt on this end but I'm unsure about how that would be handled on her end since in many countries the gifter must survive the gift date by seven years, otherwise she is taxed.

 

I'll watch for replies from others and if nothing shows up, I'll dig into it.

[Negita43]

If it helps anyone:

1. Here's a PDF of the example tax return form

2 I

Is attachment 2 just a case of forms not catching up with the new scenario

Example Form.pdf

Edited January 12 by Negita43

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

If it helps anyone:

1. Here's a PDF of the example tax return form

2 I

Is attachment 2 just a case of forms not catching up with the new scenario

Example Form.pdf 1.79 MB · 0 downloads

Just what I was looking for.

 

Thank you.

[Negita43]

44 minutes ago, thaimacky said:

2. How is inherited money treated when I send it to Thailand?

Useful to know for me too

Also I am about to open a joint bank account with my gf (to make access to Thai funds easier if I pop off suddenly). How does the new scenario impact on that?

 

[stat]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:26 PM, Aforek said:

My embassy ( France ) tells that because of the "Convention " ( DTA for English people ), we just have to do an income statement in the amphoe ( if we live outside Bangkok ) , but we don't have to pay anything 

who to believe ? 

Are you even sure the DTA applies to you and your form of income? If you have cap gains in France from US shares and you do not live any longer in France the DTA is not relevant for you, just as an example.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

I cannot see why you would obscure posts that do not violate forum policy... Newcomers can stick to your guide IMHO, thanks!

I've decluttered the thread for the reasons stated, please don't be argumentative or disrupt the thread with off topic issues. If you have concerns about my actions, please feel free to PM me or Admin. I'll cut you some slack on this occasion but am likely to declutter again in the future and remove off topic posts. 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Negita43 said:

Useful to know for me too

Also I am about to open a joint bank account with my gf (to make access to Thai funds easier if I pop off suddenly). How does the new scenario impact on that?

 

A good question, I need to think about that.

 

But your joint bank account idea needs some thought because joint banks accounts are closed on the death of one of the account holders and the account subject to Probate. A better approach might be to open an "either, or" account which means that both parties own the account individually and separately, both can transact on the account independent of the other and the account will remain open if one person dies. One of the two owners must be nominated to be responsible for tax on the account, that can't be split. But be aware that a joint or an either/or account will not be accepted by Immigration for visa extension purposes which must be in your name alone.

[Mike Lister]

17 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

 

Appreciate you are trying to be helpful here Mike, but you trying to address queries like this, starts to take this into the absurd.

 

"Is my mum (a non thai resident) paying for school fees in Thailand taxable" (whether directly or by transfering me $ that ends up in a Thai bank ac)

 

Of course it isn't, but you start to speculate by mentioning deductibility and gifts, and leave doubt in people's minds. 

 

If you extrapolate this logic- "My Mother visited me in Thailand, she paid for my hotel stay when we visited Samui. Is this a taxable event?

 

Even more farcical..."My mum bought me 3 Changs. Do I need to add the cost of them to my tax return?"

 

Can you see where your good intentions are leading here?

 

 

 

 

If you have a response for the OP and can improve on the one given, please feel free to provide it and I'm sure he will be grateful.

[anrcaccount]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If you have a response for the OP and can improve on the one given, please feel free to provide it and I'm sure he will be grateful.

 

Fair enough.

 

1. Your Mother paying school fees will not be a a taxable event. 

 

2. Inheritance. Exempt from PIT. See these links, but for amounts under 100 Million THB (plus a bunch of other exceptions) , no need to worry about any Inheritance Tax:

 

https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/inheritance-tax/

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/other-taxes#:~:text=Heirs are subject to the,where the rate is 5%.

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Fair enough.

 

1. Your Mother paying school fees will not be a a taxable event. 

 

2. Inheritance. Exempt from PIT. See these links, but for amounts under 100 Million THB (plus a bunch of other exceptions) , no need to worry about any Inheritance Tax:

 

https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/inheritance-tax/

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/other-taxes#:~:text=Heirs are subject to the,where the rate is 5%.

A good find regarding inheritance, thank you.

 

Perhaps a better way to manage the school fees is for the op to receive them from his mother in some way, possibly as a Gift, and to pay them directly since he will be able to make use of the tax deduction whilst the mother cannot. This is what I had suggested previously but appears to have been misunderstood. That would be the more cost effective route but as said previously, raises questions in the mothers home country.

[Negita43]

27 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

A better approach might be to open an "either, or" account which means that both parties own the account individually and separately,

Sorry for not being clear - any account I open would be an either/or signatory -is that not an option within the joint account process or do I need to ask for a special type of account.

Also with regard to the inheritance there are at least two scenarios:

Foreigner dies abroad leaves assets to another foreigner in Thailand (my solution - if possible and amount warrants - get out of country for the requsite number of days!)

Foreigner dies whilst in Thailand with assets abroad willed to Thai a) wife b)gf

You have my deepest sympathy Mike - this subject is like Japanese Knotweed - it keeps growing and growing!

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Negita43 said:

Sorry for not being clear - any account I open would be an either/or signatory -is that not an option within the joint account process or do I need to ask for a special type of account.

Also with regard to the inheritance there are at least two scenarios:

Foreigner dies abroad leaves assets to another foreigner in Thailand (my solution - if possible and amount warrants - get out of country for the requsite number of days!)

Foreigner dies whilst in Thailand with assets abroad willed to Thai a) wife b)gf

You have my deepest sympathy Mike - this subject is like Japanese Knotweed - it keeps growing and growing!

A joint account is owned by the both of you jointly, an either/or account is owned by both of you separately. When you open an either/or account you both fill out account opening forms but you leave with a single account. With a joint account you fill out one application only.

 

We're moving so far off topic here with the inheritance question that I have to draw a line I'm afraid, sorry, you probably ought to search for threads on wills and probate to cover that point or open a topic about it specially..

[UKresonant]

Just now, Negita43 said:

Maybe my old mind is going wonky but is the implication of that - if you keep say pension income earned in the UK, in 2023 and don't remit it till one or more years later then it is not declarable/taxable?

That was the old way which was discontinued effective 1st Jan 2024.

 

e.g. 2019 I practiced doing monthly transfers via SWIFT, I would send the net value of on of my pensions, month for month from the year before. no complication. The amount of Tax free money from 2017/2018 UK tax year, (non-resident 2018 <180 Days)  if brought in 2019 would not be applicable for Tax in Thailand.

 

Now its gone to the other extreme, everything  is potentially taxable going forward have to prove it was savings from before 2024, or isolate it with a tax paid  record for remitting in future years.  It just makes things so potentially complicated for me going forward. I have never been full time in Thailand,  so don't want to get caught between the two tax systems, if there for say 270 days, all my income is subject to Tax and taxed in the UK. 

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Maybe my old mind is going wonky but is the implication of that - if you keep say pension income earned in the UK, in 2023 and don't remit it till one or more years later then it is not declarable/taxable?

 

9 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

That was the old way which was discontinued effective 1st Jan 2024.

 

e.g. 2019 I practiced doing monthly transfers via SWIFT, I would send the net value of on of my pensions, month for month from the year before. no complication. The amount of Tax free money from 2017/2018 UK tax year, (non-resident 2018 <180 Days)  if brought in 2019 would not be applicable for Tax in Thailand.

 

Now its gone to the other extreme, everything  is potentially taxable going forward have to prove it was savings from before 2024, or isolate it with a tax paid  record for remitting in future years.  It just makes things so potentially complicated for me going forward. I have never been full time in Thailand,  so don't want to get caught between the two tax systems, if there for say 270 days, all my income is subject to Tax and taxed in the UK. 

 

 

 

 

Pension income earned in 2023 but not remitted until 2024 will not be taxable in Thailand since income earned before 1 January 2024 is excluded from the new rule.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

[UKresonant]

Just now, thaimacky said:

Two questions that I haven't found an answer to yet:

1. I am retired early and married in Thailand. My mother who does not live in Thailand pays for our children's education. Until now she had sent the money to my Thai account and I then transferred it to the schools. I would have to pay taxes on this money from now on, right? Are these school fees also subject to tax law if my mother transfers the money directly to the school using an international bank transfer?

2. How is inherited money treated when I send it to Thailand?

 

My understanding is they would not be taxable  the problem may be what records they may ask for if queried on the remittances, perhaps get mum to put "GIFTTO .." in the transfer record perhaps, isolate the Inherited funds, maybe even pay to a different account in Thailand.  Not items for filing on the return unless the anticipated new return form, has and explanation section for non-assessable remittance, which is very doubtful. (Such cash gifts into the UK would not be taxable for income tax purposes, based on reading HMRC community blog examples, between countries).

 

p.s. Just an opinion on what reading I have done 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

A good question, I need to think about that.

 

But your joint bank account idea needs some thought because joint banks accounts are closed on the death of one of the account holders and the account subject to Probate. A better approach might be to open an "either, or" account which means that both parties own the account individually and separately, both can transact on the account independent of the other and the account will remain open if one person dies. One of the two owners must be nominated to be responsible for tax on the account, that can't be split. But be aware that a joint or an either/or account will not be accepted by Immigration for visa extension purposes which must be in your name alone.

Thank you for that information. I had not realised about the either or option on a joint bank account.

[Negita43]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

We're moving so far off topic here with the inheritance question that I have to draw a line I'm afraid, sorry, you probably ought to search for threads on wills and probate to cover that point or open a topic about it specially..

Thanks Mike my will situation UK and Thai is covered I had started the idea of a Joint account (either or) before all this palava started so that I could transfer money to Thailand and it would be easy for my gf to access on my demuse. Now I think I might have to rethink it all.

I understand yhe pressure you are under so I will not bother you again about inheritance.

[Mike Lister]

I've removed a couple of posts that questioned moderator actions and comments on other posts. If you wish to discuss such things, please PM me or contact support but leave the thread clear of such remarks so that it remains more easily readable. Thanks

[Moonlover]

20 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The previous poster said that his pensions were within the UK Personal Allowance hence there was no need to pay UK tax. If his pensions had been higher than the PA and UK tax was due, we would have then explored what types of pensions were involved and whether the DTA offered any respite from tax when they were remitted to Thailand but this wasn't necessary. I explained that the Thai equivalent of the UK PA is TEDA which in his case, comes to a similar amount hence no tax is due. If his UK pensions were higher than the UK PA and he had been taxed, that could be used to offset any tax due in Thailand, under the terms of a DTA. Is that more clear or does it need more explanation?

 

As a caveat to the above: we do not know at this stage, how the Thai RD will manage this whole rule change e business which is why the imperative currently is to wait and see what happens and what news emerges. There is a range of possibilities ranging from the really good news, eg, we changed our minds, sorry for the upset, to, we're going to tax quite a few things.....and anywhere in between.

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. It tells me one thing at least. I. along with most folks around here do not understand the complexities of DTAs or even whether they worth the paper they are written on!

 

I totally agree with your second paragraph. Why don't we just leave this whole damn business alone until we DO actually have some more concrete answers on this matter from the RD or whoever? All we seem to be doing is stirring up a load of very muddy water to no real affect, other than introducing unneeded stress into many peoples daily lives who, quite frankly can do without it.

 

 

Edited January 13 by Moonlover

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. It tells me one thing at least. I. along with most folks around here do not understand the complexities of DTAs or even whether they worth the paper they are written on!

 

I totally agree with your second paragraph. Why don't we just leave this whole damn business alone until we DO actually have some more concrete answers on this matter from the RD or whoever? All we seem to be doing is stirring up a load of very muddy water to no real affect, other than introducing unneeded stress into many peoples daily lives who, quite frankly can do without it.

 

 

 

As I just wrote in a reply to another poster elsewhere, we don't know what the tax rules will be for filing in  first quarter next year, those rules are very unclear and uncertain. 

 

But we do know what the rules are for filing this first quarter and what this whole business has made painfully clear is that many foreigners in Thailand have not realised that they were obliged to file a tax return, every year.

 

I strongly suggest everyone read the document at the begining of the OP.

 

[gearbox]

On 1/11/2024 at 9:11 PM, Mike Lister said:

Gifts up to THB 20 mill. between husband and wife in Thailand are tax free, whether or not overseas gifts are tax free is not clear. 

 

Travelers can bring up to USD15k into Thailand without having to report it it to Customs, anything over that amount requires a Customs declaration. The question then is, what to do with that money next? If it is deposited into a bank it will register as a Foreign Currency Exchange and identification/passport will be required. Yes, technically that is assessable income that has been imported in cash.

 

The capability to monitor and report on foreign ATM transactions does exist since they all go through bank or visa/mastercard networks and then via a Central Clearing bank. Whether or not those transaction will be reported, is another matter entirely.

In Australia the foreign ATM withdrawals are not considered international file transfers and the banks are not required to report them to the government. The govt can have access to them only if there is ongoing investigation.

If I withdraw money from my Aussie debit card in Thailand there is not enough info for the Thai authorities to resolve definitely my entity, there is no passport, DOB or address info associated with the withdrawal.

[Mike Lister]

26 minutes ago, gearbox said:

In Australia the foreign ATM withdrawals are not considered international file transfers and the banks are not required to report them to the government. The govt can have access to them only if there is ongoing investigation.

If I withdraw money from my Aussie debit card in Thailand there is not enough info for the Thai authorities to resolve definitely my entity, there is no passport, DOB or address info associated with the withdrawal.

If we dig further into this aspect we will end up far outside the scope of the things this thread hopes to discuss because we get into the realm of what information is shared between governments and Central Banks as a result of global and regional agreements. I seriously do not want to see a debate develop on this point because it was discussed in the 200 page thread repeatedly and still no definitive answer was arrived at. If anyone wants to understand more on this information sharing aspects, the 200+ page thread is the place to find it and I'll link it below. 

 

Let me just say however that any person who makes a cash withdrawal in one country using an ATM card from another, provides the basis of tracking data (card number and issuing bank) which can easily be traced by the banks and network providers such as Mastercard and Visa, to disclose name of the account holder and other identity data. Technically those things are easily possible. Politically and practically it may be a different story since it will depend on agreements for international data sharing.

 

 

[gearbox]

14 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If we dig further into this aspect we will end up far outside the scope of the things this thread hopes to discuss because we get into the realm of what information is shared between governments and Central Banks as a result of global and regional agreements. I seriously do not want to see a debate develop on this point because it was discussed in the 200 page thread repeatedly and still no definitive answer was arrived at. If anyone wants to understand more on this information sharing aspects, the 200+ page thread is the place to find it and I'll link it below. 

 

Let me just say however that any person who makes a cash withdrawal in one country using an ATM card from another, provides the basis of tracking data (card number and issuing bank) which can easily be traced by the banks and network providers such as Mastercard and Visa, to disclose name of the account holder and other identity data. Technically those things are easily possible. Politically and practically it may be a different story since it will depend on agreements for international data sharing.

Thanks Mike for all the work you have done to clarify the upcoming tax issues.

Myself can't be bothered with that much complexity, as long as they can't track me I'll do the minimum I can get away with. Cash in hand through the borders and ATM withdrawals are the ways to go in my circumstances.

Edited January 13 by gearbox

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. It tells me one thing at least. I. along with most folks around here do not understand the complexities of DTAs or even whether they worth the paper they are written on!

 

I totally agree with your second paragraph. Why don't we just leave this whole damn business alone until we DO actually have some more concrete answers on this matter from the RD or whoever? All we seem to be doing is stirring up a load of very muddy water to no real affect, other than introducing unneeded stress into many peoples daily lives who, quite frankly can do without it.

 

 

I recognize fully the extent to which many people are scared at present, my inbox has notes from many of them. Which is why we agreed to collectively write the document that we have, in order to inform and raise awareness. I don't think that ignoring all of this is a good solution, even if the outcome could be that not much changes at all. If anyone needs help understanding the issues they can post questions in the thread I posted, alternatively they are welcome to PM me. I think a little bit of education will go a long way for most people.

[John207]

21 hours ago, Presnock said:

As has been noted before, there is no penalty for not filing if you do NOT have assessible income...why get a Tax Number and file a "zero" form if there is no penalty.  However IF the govt decides that WE must have a TN if we have certain incomes in order to move through immigration, then year WE will have to get a TN and do what paperwork they want unless we decide to a friendlier tax countr.  Funny, I just received an article talking about the 10 most desired countries 2024 in the world.  Thailand was number 6 and it said that while there are a few immigration complaints, taxation was avoidable by getting an LTR visa but of course they didn't say if that was easy, cheap or whatever.  But as a last resort, if you meet the necessary requirements for that visa, by royal decree you won't need to pay taxes while in Thailand to the Thais.

I'm a LTR visa holder and I was thinking that even though the LTR visa was tax exempt by royal decree when it was first issued in Sep-22, there is a possibility that the new Sep-23 law change about the taxable foreign income have superseded the previous status in terms of foreign remitted income alone. I'm looking around to find more info and needless to say if anybody comes across any literature on that subject, I would be interested to hear. Wife says I'm thinking too much, possibly right! :-) 

[Presnock]

28 minutes ago, John207 said:

I'm a LTR visa holder and I was thinking that even though the LTR visa was tax exempt by royal decree when it was first issued in Sep-22, there is a possibility that the new Sep-23 law change about the taxable foreign income have superseded the previous status in terms of foreign remitted income alone. I'm looking around to find more info and needless to say if anybody comes across any literature on that subject, I would be interested to hear. Wife says I'm thinking too much, possibly right! :-) 

since LTR visa is tax exempt vita Royal Decree, my opinion is you have nothing to worry about as that trumps the civilian/mil govt too.