Red, Black and White 220V wires.

[carlyai]

Years ago the electrician ran some wires to outside driveway lights.

When I'm not there he never runs earth wires.

As these are metal lights I have always been going to run an earth and finally getting round to it.

There's a bit more to the story, but I've found for most of the run (about 20m) there are red, black and white wires. 

So instead of running a new earth cable I'm going to use one of the existing cables.

He was using red and black to some of the lights and red and white to others.

I want to use white for neutral, black for active and red for earth.

Does this seem the best setup for the wires I have?

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Years ago the electrician ran some wires to outside driveway lights.

When I'm not there he never runs earth wires.

As these are metal lights I have always been going to run an earth and finally getting round to it.

There's a bit more to the story, but I've found for most of the run (about 20m) there are red, black and white wires. 

So instead of running a new earth cable I'm going to use one of the existing cables.

He was using red and black to some of the lights and red and white to others.

I want to use white for neutral, black for active and red for earth.

Does this seem the best setup for the wires I have?

Back when I served my electrical engineering apprenticeship, black was neutral, red was live and green was earth, but in the UK that change to brown, blue and green however in Thailand it seems that electricians will use any old piece of wire that they've got hanging around the place, including joining one colour to another inside of the conduit, thereby confusing the person working on it.

 

Black is generally considered live in Thailand, but you may wish to seek other inputs regarding this, however one piece of advice whatever you are going to do with your wiring, be sure to label it, either with tape on each wire with a marking on it, or indeed a separate piece of paper with the wiring code that you have installed, placed where it can be referred to.

 

And Never take anything for granted here, because when I bought my first house I wanted to move the aircon in the bedroom so turned all of the circuit breakers off in the house and was about to start work on it, but tested it first, and it was still live, so I turned off the main breaker for the house and it was still live!! 

 

The electrician had tapped into the wires from the supply off the outside meter, before it had reached the distribution board, thereby ensuring that it could never be made "un-live". Beware Thai electricians.
 

[brianthainess]

19 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Years ago the electrician ran some wires to outside driveway lights.

When I'm not there he never runs earth wires.

As these are metal lights I have always been going to run an earth and finally getting round to it.

There's a bit more to the story, but I've found for most of the run (about 20m) there are red, black and white wires. 

So instead of running a new earth cable I'm going to use one of the existing cables.

He was using red and black to some of the lights and red and white to others.

I want to use white for neutral, black for active and red for earth.

Does this seem the best setup for the wires I have?

Red for Earth? 😱⚡ spare a thought for anybody else that might do electrical work on your house.

[johng]

You can choose whatever color you want...upto you just as the "electricain" did

but in Thailand they tend to use black as live white as neutral and something else as earth I prefer green....maybe put a note in the conenection boxes explaining for the next person who has to work on them.

[BenStark]

Red would be the very last colour I expect to be earth.

 

 

[Crossy]

I would get some green heatshrink/sleeving and sleeve the red.

 

That at least keeps Black = Live and White/Grey = Neutral per Thai (and US/Canada) convention.

 

[CanadaSam]

I would do red live, black neutral, and white earth, if those are the colours you have to work with.

[Shmo]

35 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Red would be the very last colour I expect to be earth.

 

 

They make green tape every day. It’s a common fix for the color coding. Don’t get too hung up about it “, a couple wraps of tape wherever there is joints for identification and you are good to go. 
(meter and test everything, Somchai the electrician has his own code to follow. )

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Does this seem the best setup for the wires I have?

No.

Do it again, and do it right. Like Brown, blue and yellow/green wires.

And never rely on any colors on wires in Thailand. If red is N in one cable, that doesn't mean it's the same at another cable in the same installation. It seems many Thai "electricians" don't know or don't care or both.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

be sure to label it, either with tape on each wire with a marking on it, or indeed a separate piece of paper with the wiring code that you have installed

But don't assume anybody will (be able to) read it and (be able to) understand it. 

[xylophone]

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But don't assume anybody will (be able to) read it and (be able to) understand it. 

In English and Thai should be ok (hopefully)!!

[NoDisplayName]

How long are the runs in total, what type of (scrap) wire was used, and what is the condition of the conduit?

 

Replacing 20 meters of the correct wire type is cheap enough, and won't take any more time, as you won't be bogged down trying to figure out and correct all the misteaks made by the last expert.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, xylophone said:

In English and Thai should be ok (hopefully)!!

It seems I only meet Thai technicians who never ever read the manual.

Like: why should we care what anybody wrote down?

And later: why does this not work the way we imagined it should work - if only something would be written somewhere...

 

To be fair, not only Thais have this attitude.

[carlyai]

I'll go with Crossy's idea and place some green heat shrink over the cable I decide to be earth in the outside Consumer Unit.

At the moment I'm not inclined to re-wire the run with correct colored wires and as SWMBO is replanting along the driveway I need to finish it or it will be difficult to get my ladder safely against the driveway wall.

One of my Thai friends just fell of his ladder, busting his knee and toes and last month Wifey fell of the ladder last month and had a big infection and stiches in her leg.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

I'll go with Crossy's idea and place some green heat shrink over the cable I decide to be earth in the outside Consumer Unit.

At the moment I'm not inclined to re-wire the run with correct colored wires and as SWMBO is replanting along the driveway I need to finish it or it will be difficult to get my ladder safely against the driveway wall.

One of my Thai friends just fell of his ladder, busting his knee and toes and last month Wifey fell of the ladder last month and had a big infection and stiches in her leg.

Absolutely the most pragmatic solution, not to mention the fastest. 
 

Those suggestions of replacing the cables ostensibly for standardised colours ignore the fact that Thai electrons are not  prejudiced and will happily use the most convenient cable, along with the fact that standards change so changing all the cable is pointless, this doesn’t address the point that while cable is not very expensive the labour of changing it for no valid reason is. If you have a genuine need to replace a damaged cable then there is an opportunity to stop being colour prejudiced 

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, johng said:

You can choose whatever color you want...upto you just as the "electricain" did

but in Thailand they tend to use black as live white as neutral and something else as earth I prefer green....maybe put a note in the conenection boxes explaining for the next person who has to work on them.

In US white is neutral, green is earth, red and black is power

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

In US white is neutral, green is earth, red and black is power

 

I suspect this is why there are large stocks of red, black, white flexible.

 

My only rule is that green or green/yellow can only ever be ground (no over-sleeving).

[Maybole]

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

Back when I served my electrical engineering apprenticeship, black was neutral, red was live and green was earth, but in the UK that change to brown, blue and green however in Thailand it seems that electricians will use any old piece of wire that they've got hanging around the place, including joining one colour to another inside of the conduit, thereby confusing the person working on it.

 

Black is generally considered live in Thailand, but you may wish to seek other inputs regarding this, however one piece of advice whatever you are going to do with your wiring, be sure to label it, either with tape on each wire with a marking on it, or indeed a separate piece of paper with the wiring code that you have installed, placed where it can be referred to.

 

And Never take anything for granted here, because when I bought my first house I wanted to move the aircon in the bedroom so turned all of the circuit breakers off in the house and was about to start work on it, but tested it first, and it was still live, so I turned off the main breaker for the house and it was still live!! 

 

The electrician had tapped into the wires from the supply off the outside meter, before it had reached the distribution board, thereby ensuring that it could never be made "un-live". Beware Thai electricians.
 

I had exactly the same thing done with a shower heater. The only reason I can think of was that it saved him 5 or 6 metres of cable.

[bluejets]

Green/ yellow trace is the regulation colour code pretty much world wide. Use of any other conductor colour for any earthing conductor in the high voltage is prohibited.

Reason is obvious as all other colours can be used as active /neutral/sw wire ....colour and designation dependant on country of use.

As a side note, just because light may have metal structure does not automatically mean it is required to be earthed.In fact, if double insulated,earthing renders it as an illegal connection.

[Crossy]

17 minutes ago, bluejets said:

Green/ yellow trace is the regulation colour code pretty much world wide. Use of any other conductor colour for any earthing conductor in the high voltage is prohibited.

Reason is obvious as all other colours can be used as active /neutral/sw wire ....colour and designation dependant on country of use.

As a side note, just because light may have metal structure does not automatically mean it is required to be earthed.In fact, if double insulated,earthing renders it as an illegal connection.

 

UK regs allow any colour for earth, so long as it's over-sleeved green/yellow at connection points. Domestic twin and earth has a bare (uninsulated) earth core, sleeving required at the ends of course.

 

What is absolutely not permitted is the use of a green/yellow core for anything other than earth (no over-sleeve permitted).

 

In Thailand, pretty much anything goes in domestic 😞 

[carlyai]

Driveway lights nearly done (had to buy one new mechanical bit yesterday).

Strange (to me anyway) I could not buy green heatshrink.  I sprayed the yellow heatshrink green. 🙂

I also noticed that the red cables are white, just dipped in red paint probably.

I looked at all the old 220v power cable I have left over from the house wiring 8 years ago, and alot of the red paint has come off leaving Rd/Wh (it's an analogue term like 'slate') cable.

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:53 AM, brianthainess said:

Red for Earth? 😱⚡ spare a thought for anybody else that might do electrical work on your house.

Yanks use red for earth. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:27 AM, carlyai said:

Years ago the electrician ran some wires to outside driveway lights.

When I'm not there he never runs earth wires.

As these are metal lights I have always been going to run an earth and finally getting round to it.

There's a bit more to the story, but I've found for most of the run (about 20m) there are red, black and white wires. 

So instead of running a new earth cable I'm going to use one of the existing cables.

He was using red and black to some of the lights and red and white to others.

I want to use white for neutral, black for active and red for earth.

Does this seem the best setup for the wires I have?

Don't be too fussed about active and neutral colours. 

 

Keep the earth green and yellow only. 

 

 

Edited February 24 by SAFETY FIRST

[brianthainess]

8 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Yanks use red for earth. 

They are stupid then if it were true true, but it is not true, green or just cooper. just like using red on fire Exit signs, the hardest color to see in a fire. 

Edited February 24 by brianthainess

[SAFETY FIRST]

4 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

They are stupid then if true, just like using red on fire Exit signs, the hardest color to see in a fire. 

It is strange to us none Yanks. 

 

I think they are changing to our standards. 

 

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/content/discovery/ideas-and-advice/electrical-wiring-regulations-guide

 

Edited February 24 by SAFETY FIRST

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

It is strange to us none Yanks. 

 

I think they are changing to our standards. 

 

read my edit.

[Crossy]

16 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Yanks use red for earth. 

 

Really, I thought red was for the second 120V phase. So red and black are both hot, white/grey is neutral and green is ground.

[SAFETY FIRST]

15 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Really, I thought red was for the second 120V phase. So red and black are both hot, white/grey is neutral and green is ground.

I'm not sure exactly how they colour code their wires, never worked in America.

 

For many years I've worked offshore, for an American company, sadly with too many Americans (joking, they're OK).

I see red wires used all the time for grounding/earthing.

 

 

Edited February 24 by SAFETY FIRST

[ThaiFelix]

28 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

They are stupid then if it were true true, but it is not true, green or just cooper. just like using red on fire Exit signs, the hardest color to see in a fire. 

Yep thats rite, easy rule if it bites you its red.................................

[bluejets]

Too many in here watch too much and take litterally whatever Macguiver has to offer.