UN finds evidence of rape on Oct. 7 and after; Israel: They tried to downplay issue

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I don't think there were many "Jews" living in Germany in that era that did not practice Judaism. My "level of ignorance" on this subject is the belief that the Nazis believed the Jews were both an inferior race and one which accumulated wealth and used it to enslave others. 

Such idiocy!

Nazi laws were totally about race.

If a person had a tiny percentage of Jewish blood from a distant relative, they were on the hit list.

 

It doesn't please me to say this, but the Nazis got most of their ideas of how to enforce their Aryan race utopia by studying American racism (treatment of blacks and the garbage "science" of Eugenics). Aside from tracing blood line records they were really into measuring heads and stuff to determine whether a person was Aryan or not. 

Edited March 9 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"If Zionism is racism as you think then Palestinian nationalism is racist too." Yes! I do. I think both sides in this conflict are racists and anti- the other's religion. 

I don't think that a Palestinian that wants to have a state side by side with Israel is racist in a harmful way even if they're very nationalistic. Nationalism is part of the human condition. You can't wipe it out. If it gets out of hand, of course it is very harmful. A good example is modern Russia. 

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Such idiocy!

Nazi laws were totally about race.

If a person had a tiny percentage of Jewish blood from a distant relative, they were on the hit list.

Why idiocy? I said it was primarily about race. Here is an interesting article on how the Nazis determined if someone was "Jewish." Mischling Test - Wikipedia

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Why idiocy? I said it was primarily about race. Here is an interesting article on how the Nazis determined if someone was "Jewish." Mischling Test - Wikipedia

Maybe you'll find that helpful in your future endeavors.

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I call B.S.!

How is it that Zionist Israel which yes indeed is Zionist as that was the root reason for it's existence to be a homeland of political self determination for Jewish people wants it all when 20 percent of its population is Arab?

 

You're the one who doesn't want to discuss history. Zionists had a good point, right up until they got their own country. Mission accomplished. But no, they babble on about all the "holy lands" or the "promised lands" being theirs by religious inheritance. You seem reluctant to admit that prominent zionists call for all of the land to be settled and the Palestinians removed. Do you deny that is fair comment? Can they claim that and not be racist?

 

Specifically, does a religious belief excuse racist acts? Like mass expulsions and actively working against self determination for Palestinians?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

You're the one who doesn't want to discuss history. Zionists had a good point, right up until they got their own country. Mission accomplished. But no, they babble on about all the "holy lands" or the "promised lands" being theirs by religious inheritance. You seem reluctant to admit that prominent zionists call for all of the land to be settled and the Palestinians removed. Do you deny that is fair comment? Can they claim that and not be racist?

 

Specifically, does a religious belief excuse racist acts? Like mass expulsions and actively working against self determination for Palestinians?

More B.S.

Some Zionists are like that and some aren't.

Its like saying that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Just being a Zionist does not mean a person believes in the things you say.

In that sense I think you're promoting Jew hating -- falsely suggesting that all Zionists think the same things such as support for that horrible leader Netanyahu.

Edited March 9 by Jingthing

[WDSmart]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Maybe you'll find that helpful in your future endeavors.

I'm not a racist. I judge and classify people based on their actions.

Edited March 9 by WDSmart

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More B.S.

Some Zionists are like that and some aren't.

Its like saying that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Just being a Zionist does not mean a person believes in the things you say.

In that sense I think you're promoting Jew hating -- falsely suggesting that all Zionists think the same things such as support for that horrible leader Netanyahu.

 

All zionists are like that.  Zionism's raison d'etre ceased in 1948.

 

So, are the "river to the sea" type of incisive comments made by prominent zionists and for which the ICJ wants punished racist or not? Which zionists are racist and which not?

[Brickleberry]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Such idiocy!

Nazi laws were totally about race.

If a person had a tiny percentage of Jewish blood from a distant relative, they were on the hit list.

 

It doesn't please me to say this, but the Nazis got most of their ideas of how to enforce their Aryan race utopia by studying American racism (treatment of blacks and the garbage "science" of Eugenics). Aside from tracing blood line records they were really into measuring heads and stuff to determine whether a person was Aryan or not. 

 

Israel got most of its ideas from the Americans too.

 

This is why they poisoned drinking wells in 46/47 to clear out the local populace. This is why they massacred whole villages. This is why they make 'reservations' - area A,B,C to slowly but surely eradicate any chance of a Palestinian state by taking more and more land, building more and more settlements.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not a racist. I classify people based on their actions.

In my life experience I have found people that claim that they're free of racism are not to be taken at face value.

As an American I know that American society teaches everyone to be racist.

You need awareness of that reality to fight it.

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

All zionists are like that.  Zionism's raison d'etre ceased in 1948.

 

So, are the "river to the sea" type of incisive comments made by prominent zionists and for which the ICJ wants punished racist or not? Which zionists are racist and which not?

You're a liar. Another one that doesn't know what Zionism is. All Zionists are not like that!

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Israel got most of its ideas from the Americans too.

 

This is why they poisoned drinking wells in 46/47 to clear out the local populace. This is why they massacred whole villages. This is why they make 'reservations' - area A,B,C to slowly but surely eradicate any chance of a Palestinian state by taking more and more land, building more and more settlements.

Oh I get it. You're accusing Israel of being the same as Nazi Germany. Very predictable. 

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

In my life experience I have found people that claim that they're free of racism are not to be taken at face value.

As an American I know that American society teaches everyone to be racist.

You need awareness of that reality to fight it.

 

Yes, I agree. I am an "American" (born and raised in the USA). Growing up in the 1950s and 60s, I saw lots of racism practiced - and sexism and homophobia, etc. I never really participated in any of that, and now, I believe I am generally free of it.

[Jingthing]

It's time for me to pause posting.

There is only so much that I can take of such a rapid fire of toxic extremist Israel demonization.

It's not like anyone is going to change their mind.

 

[Brickleberry]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're a liar. Another one that doesn't know what Zionism is. All Zionists are not like that!

 

[Brickleberry]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh I get it. You're accusing Israel of being the same as Nazi Germany. Very predictable. 

No, I accused it of behaving like the Americans and their genocide against the native population - the American Indians. Don't take my words and twist them into something else.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're a liar. Another one that doesn't know what Zionism is. All Zionists are not like that!

 

Which zionists are and what makes them like that?

 

Do you believe that not all zionists think the illegal settlements are illegal? My view is that would invalidate their claim to be an adherent to the philosophy. Zionism requires repossession of the "promised lands". No?

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's time for me to pause posting.

There is only so much that I can take of such a rapid fire of toxic extremist Israel demonization.

It's not like anyone is going to change their mind.

 

 

You were simply called upon to rationalise your views and you made no attempt to do so. Your "rapid fire of toxic Israeli demonization" is my idea of forcing your feet to the fire and demonstrate that you're not just motivated by racial animus and bias. And, above all else, we are discussing zionism, not Israelis or Jews.

 

Edited March 9 by ozimoron

[WDSmart]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's time for me to pause posting.

There is only so much that I can take of such a rapid fire of toxic extremist Israel demonization.

It's not like anyone is going to change their mind.

 

I'm sorry you characterize at least some of my postings as "a rapid fire of toxic extremist Israel demonization." I did not intend them to be so. I did intend them to be a counterbalance to what I consider "a rapid-fire of toxic extremist Israel rationalization." Like I've said before, I'm really not on one side or the other and hope both sides will soon come together with an agreement of a ceasefire, exchange of hostages/prisoners, and a beginning of serious negotiations on a two-state solution.

Edited March 9 by WDSmart

[Bkk Brian]

The most horrific report finally issued by the UN after constant denials from some posters has confirmed what Israel and the hostage survivors has been saying for weeks, that Hamas raped  women before murdering them,  cases of Hamas terrorists raping corpses and female hostages have been subjected to rape and horrific sexual violence which is likely ongoing. No wonder the apologists are derailing the topic into blaming Israel.

 

Shameful

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The most horrific report finally issued by the UN after constant denials from some posters has confirmed what Israel and the hostage survivors has been saying for weeks, that Hamas raped  women before murdering them,  cases of Hamas terrorists raping corpses and female hostages have been subjected to rape and horrific sexual violence which is likely ongoing. No wonder the apologists are derailing the topic into blaming Israel.

 

Shameful

Yes, that's despicable and shameful. That's all the more reason Israel should make whatever deal they can to assure the return of the hostages as soon as possible. The last I heard on CNN was that the ceasefire deal will not likely happen soon.
Talks for Gaza ceasefire at a standstill, no deal likely by Ramadan | CNN

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, that's despicable and shameful. That's all the more reason Israel should make whatever deal they can to assure the return of the hostages as soon as possible. The last I heard on CNN was that the ceasefire deal will not likely happen soon.
Talks for Gaza ceasefire at a standstill, no deal likely by Ramadan | CNN

 

If you know its shameful why have you been one of those taking part.

 

Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron says "there is the chance of a ceasefire" but it "requires" Hamas signing the deal Israel has agreed, and insists they should do this "today".

 

 

[Brickleberry]

24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The most horrific report finally issued by the UN after constant denials from some posters has confirmed what Israel and the hostage survivors has been saying for weeks, that Hamas raped  women before murdering them,  cases of Hamas terrorists raping corpses and female hostages have been subjected to rape and horrific sexual violence which is likely ongoing. No wonder the apologists are derailing the topic into blaming Israel.

 

Shameful

 

That's not what Israel was saying for weeks. You are trying to change the narrative. Shameful.

 

Israel was saying for weeks that there was a systemic campaign of rape and sexual violence. This has been found to be false.

 

The report uses very careful language and does not confirm any of Israel's accusations. It does refute some of them, and it also points out there are no victims currently in Israel - that are alive. There is 'clear and convincing information' from released hostages that other hostages might have been raped. We will find out when (if?) they are released.  

 

The report also noted that there are currently Palestinian victims of Israeli soldiers sexually abusing, humiliating, torturing and raping them. Actual evidence form people who are alive. Not a word about that from you eh? Shameful.

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

6 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, that's despicable and shameful. That's all the more reason Israel should make whatever deal they can to assure the return of the hostages as soon as possible. The last I heard on CNN was that the ceasefire deal will not likely happen soon.
Talks for Gaza ceasefire at a standstill, no deal likely by Ramadan | CNN

 

If you know its shameful why have you been one of those taking part.

 

Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron says "there is the chance of a ceasefire" but it "requires" Hamas signing the deal Israel has agreed, and insists they should do this "today".

I have not been "one of those taking part." Why would you say that? I would never take part in such activities as rape or sexual abuse. The only activity associated with this that I would even consider "taking part" in would be the negotiations, and I've posted my recommendations for those.

So, Lord Cameron says, "there is the chance of a ceasefire" but it "requires" Hamas signing the deal Israel has agreed, and insists they should do this "today".
 

That's not a negotiation; that's an ultimatum. There has to be a negotiation so each side can declare what it wants, and then "negotiations" have to be done to whittle those down into a set that both will accept.

 

I don't know the details of the proposed deal. I've heard it was a six-week ceasefire in exchange for 30 or so hostages and 300 or so prisoners. It was said to have required Hamas to give a written account of the status of their hostages, and that, from what I gathered, was the sticking point. But I don't know why and don't even know that for sure.

[Brickleberry]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

If you know its shameful why have you been one of those taking part.

 

Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron says "there is the chance of a ceasefire" but it "requires" Hamas signing the deal Israel has agreed, and insists they should do this "today"

 

Lies. Israel didn't even have a delegation in Cairo.

 

Ceasefire is not what Israel is going for, they are going for a 'pause' for a few weeks and then they will resume their genocide. Who on earth would agree to a deal that just means you all continue to get killed, bombed etc.

 

Furthermore, Israel have been using aid as leverage - refusing to allow any in. This is against international law, the wishes of the world and the ICJ provisional measures. Disgusting behavior from the supposedly 'most moral army in the world". This is what Israel is doing: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hamas-war-children-starving-famine-warning-death-destruction-rcna141813

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

That's not what Israel was saying for weeks. You are trying to change the narrative. Shameful.

 

Israel was saying for weeks that there was a systemic campaign of rape and sexual violence. This has been found to be false.

 

The report uses very careful language and does not confirm any of Israel's accusations. It does refute some of them, and it also points out there are no victims currently in Israel - that are alive. There is 'clear and convincing information' from released hostages that other hostages might have been raped. We will find out when (if?) they are released.  

 

The report also noted that there are currently Palestinian victims of Israeli soldiers sexually abusing, humiliating, torturing and raping them. Actual evidence form people who are alive. Not a word about that from you eh? Shameful.

 

Still waiting for you to get back to me on your first post in this topic where you were spreading lies and misinformation. You need to address that in full first.

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Brickleberry said:

 

Lies. Israel didn't even have a delegation in Cairo.

 

Ceasefire is not what Israel is going for, they are going for a 'pause' for a few weeks and then they will resume their genocide. Who on earth would agree to a deal that just means you all continue to get killed, bombed etc.

 

Furthermore, Israel have been using aid as leverage - refusing to allow any in. This is against international law, the wishes of the world and the ICJ provisional measures. Disgusting behavior from the supposedly 'most moral army in the world". This is what Israel is doing: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hamas-war-children-starving-famine-warning-death-destruction-rcna141813

 

This is not the topic, you want to go off topic constantly keep me out of it, you also need a source for that image

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have not been "one of those taking part." Why would you say that? I would never take part in such activities as rape or sexual abuse. The only activity associated with this that I would even consider "taking part" in would be the negotiations, and I've posted my recommendations for those.

So, Lord Cameron says, "there is the chance of a ceasefire" but it "requires" Hamas signing the deal Israel has agreed, and insists they should do this "today".
 

That's not a negotiation; that's an ultimatum. There has to be a negotiation so each side can declare what it wants, and then "negotiations" have to be done to whittle those down into a set that both will accept.

 

I don't know the details of the proposed deal. I've heard it was a six-week ceasefire in exchange for 30 or so hostages and 300 or so prisoners. It was said to have required Hamas to give a written account of the status of their hostages, and that, from what I gathered, was the sticking point. But I don't know why and don't even know that for sure.

Its not only Cameron, if you go to the topic on the hostage deal you'll see.

 

[Brickleberry]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not the topic, you want to go off topic constantly keep me out of it, you also need a source for that image

The source is clearly in the post. NBC news

[Brickleberry]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

Still waiting for you to get back to me on your first post in this topic where you were spreading lies and misinformation. You need to address that in full first.

 

 

 

Huh? I can't see your post. Was it deleted?