Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Jeff the Chef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

 

Hamas’s incursion into Israel on October 7 transformed the politics of the Middle East. Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit) has carried out a forensic analysis of the events of that day – examining seven hours of footage from CCTV, dashcams, personal phones and headcams of dead Hamas fighters, and drawing up a comprehensive list of those killed.

 

In October 7, the I-Unit reveals widespread human rights abuses by Hamas fighters and others who followed them through the fence from Gaza into Israel.
 
But the investigation also found that many of the worst stories that came out in the days following the attack were false. This was especially true of atrocities that were used repeatedly by politicians in Israel and the West to justify the ferocity of the bombardment of the Gaza Strip, such as the mass killing of babies and allegations of widespread and systematic rape.
 
In particular the I-Unit reveals that claims by the Israel Defence Force that it found 8 burned babies at a house in Kibbutz Be’eri were entirely untrue. There were no babies in the house and the 12 civilians inside were killed by Israeli forces when they stormed the house.
 
This was one of a number of incidents where the police and army appear to have killed Israeli citizens.
 
October 7 is a deep dive into the events that led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people, the significance of which will reverberate for decades.

[Wobblybob]

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not trying to cover the evil intent of Hamas. I'm trying to reveal to you the evil, revengeful actions of the IDF.

You constantly make excuses for these terrorist monsters and by Israel trying to make sure another 7/10 never happens again, and by doing so it can never be construed as "revenge". You purposely use incorrect wording to give a little credence to your overly biased posts!

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not trying to cover the evil intent of Hamas. I'm trying to reveal to you the evil, revengeful actions of the IDF.

I know exactly what you're doing. Go away

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wonder how many dead children the poster you quoted would consider excessive?

Why don't you ask him instead of talking about him, there's a word for what you are.

[Bkk Brian]

34 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

 

Hamas’s incursion into Israel on October 7 transformed the politics of the Middle East. Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit) has carried out a forensic analysis of the events of that day – examining seven hours of footage from CCTV, dashcams, personal phones and headcams of dead Hamas fighters, and drawing up a comprehensive list of those killed.

 

In October 7, the I-Unit reveals widespread human rights abuses by Hamas fighters and others who followed them through the fence from Gaza into Israel.
 
But the investigation also found that many of the worst stories that came out in the days following the attack were false. This was especially true of atrocities that were used repeatedly by politicians in Israel and the West to justify the ferocity of the bombardment of the Gaza Strip, such as the mass killing of babies and allegations of widespread and systematic rape.
 
In particular the I-Unit reveals that claims by the Israel Defence Force that it found 8 burned babies at a house in Kibbutz Be’eri were entirely untrue. There were no babies in the house and the 12 civilians inside were killed by Israeli forces when they stormed the house.
 
This was one of a number of incidents where the police and army appear to have killed Israeli citizens.
 
October 7 is a deep dive into the events that led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people, the significance of which will reverberate for decades.

Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit)

[WDSmart]

11 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You constantly make excuses for these terrorist monsters and by Israel trying to make sure another 7/10 never happens again, and by doing so it can never be construed as "revenge". You purposely use incorrect wording to give a little credence to your overly biased posts!

I'm not trying to "make excuses for these terrorist monsters." I admit my posts are predominantly one-sided, but that's because ALL of yours (and others) are also. I am just trying to make sure both sides are presented. 

I do consider the IDF bombing and now invasion of Gaza have a lot of revenge in it. That is the correct wording, the wording I wanted to use to convey the nature of the excessive civilian casualties Gaza has suffered. 

[WDSmart]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I know exactly what you're doing. Go away

What! Are you telling me to "go away"? Stop it! You're liable to make me cry! 🥹 

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why don't you ask him instead of talking about him, there's a word for what you are.

Yes, that's "someone who speaks about people in the third person." 😁

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, that's "someone who speaks about people in the third person." 😁

 

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

What! Are you telling me to "go away"? Stop it! You're liable to make me cry! 🥹 

 

"Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War."

[Nick Carter icp]

31 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

 

Hamas’s incursion into Israel on October 7 transformed the politics of the Middle East. Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit) has carried out a forensic analysis of the events of that day – examining seven hours of footage from CCTV, dashcams, personal phones and headcams of dead Hamas fighters, and drawing up a comprehensive list of those killed.

 

In October 7, the I-Unit reveals widespread human rights abuses by Hamas fighters and others who followed them through the fence from Gaza into Israel.
 
But the investigation also found that many of the worst stories that came out in the days following the attack were false. This was especially true of atrocities that were used repeatedly by politicians in Israel and the West to justify the ferocity of the bombardment of the Gaza Strip, such as the mass killing of babies and allegations of widespread and systematic rape.
 
In particular the I-Unit reveals that claims by the Israel Defence Force that it found 8 burned babies at a house in Kibbutz Be’eri were entirely untrue. There were no babies in the house and the 12 civilians inside were killed by Israeli forces when they stormed the house.
 
This was one of a number of incidents where the police and army appear to have killed Israeli citizens.
 
October 7 is a deep dive into the events that led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people, the significance of which will reverberate for decades.

 

   It really doesn't matter about the smaller details . 

The whole Oct 7  terror attack was a war crime and an atrocity targeting innocent civilians and taking hostages .

   130 people were killed in the attack on Kibbutz Be'eeri , including a 10 month old baby , some Israelis were killed by the IDF in a shootout with Hamas .

   Your report doesn't state that any Israelis were killed by Hamas that day .

Israels retaliatory attack on Gaza would have happened on the strength of the Hamas invasion alone ,regardless of the small details (like the ages of the deceased  )

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not trying to "make excuses for these terrorist monsters." I admit my posts are predominantly one-sided, but that's because ALL of yours (and others) are also. I am just trying to make sure both sides are presented. 

I do consider the IDF bombing and now invasion of Gaza have a lot of revenge in it. That is the correct wording, the wording I wanted to use to convey the nature of the excessive civilian casualties Gaza has suffered. 

I'm not trying to "make excuses for these terrorist monsters." I admit my posts are predominantly one-sided, but that's because ALL of yours (and others) are also. I am just trying to make sure both sides are presented. 

 

Are you saying that by us stating that Hamas and friends made incursions into Israel to commit these massacres is biased and we are not being fair to the phycopathic killers, are you suggesting we should be more understanding and forgive them which which would give them carte blanche to carry out more attrocities in Israel.

 

I do consider the IDF bombing and now invasion of Gaza have a lot of revenge in it. That is the correct wording, the wording I wanted to use to convey the nature of the excessive civilian casualties Gaza has suffered. 

 

Ensuring or trying to ensure these attrocities never happen again can ever be described as "revenge"!

[Bkk Brian]

Damage to buildings in wars:
🔸Raqqa Syria - 40%
🔸Mosul Iraq - 65%
🔸Gaza - 35%
Israel is setting a professional standard unprecedented in modern urban warfare. Hamas have used the last 17 years to weaponize the urban environment intentionally planting their command and control capabilities, weapons manufacturing facilities and rocket launch pads from within, around and beneath the homes and buildings of Gaza. This is a precise war, but it is war nevertheless.  

https://twitter.com/LTCPeterLerner/status/1771458623991930900

 

[WDSmart]

14 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I'm not trying to "make excuses for these terrorist monsters." I admit my posts are predominantly one-sided, but that's because ALL of yours (and others) are also. I am just trying to make sure both sides are presented. 

 

Are you saying that by us stating that Hamas and friends made incursions into Israel to commit these massacres is biased and we are not being fair to the phycopathic killers, are you suggesting we should be more understanding and forgive them which which would give them carte blanche to carry out more attrocities in Israel.

 

I do consider the IDF bombing and now invasion of Gaza have a lot of revenge in it. That is the correct wording, the wording I wanted to use to convey the nature of the excessive civilian casualties Gaza has suffered. 

 

Ensuring or trying to ensure these attrocities never happen again can ever be described as "revenge"!

My answer is "yes" to your question above. That's not an unqualified "yes," but it's a "yes" that means you should be doing much, much more of what you describe in your question and much, much less of defending the IDF's revenge killings as you are doing now.

IMO, and in the growing conclusion of most of the world, the IDF's barbarous military actions in Gaza do have a large quality of "revenge" about them. I don't consider them just "retaliatory."

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

My answer is "yes" to your question above. That's not an unqualified "yes," but it's a "yes" that means you should be doing much, much more of what you describe in your question and much, much less of defending the IDF's revenge killings as you are doing now.

IMO, and in the growing conclusion of most of the world, the IDF's barbarous military actions in Gaza do have a large quality of "revenge" about them. I don't consider them just "retaliatory."

You have finally lost the plot, the lights are on but nobody is in.🥴

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Damage to buildings in wars:
🔸Raqqa Syria - 40%
🔸Mosul Iraq - 65%
🔸Gaza - 35%
Israel is setting a professional standard unprecedented in modern urban warfare. Hamas have used the last 17 years to weaponize the urban environment intentionally planting their command and control capabilities, weapons manufacturing facilities and rocket launch pads from within, around and beneath the homes and buildings of Gaza. This is a precise war, but it is war nevertheless.  

https://twitter.com/LTCPeterLerner/status/1771458623991930900

 

What? A history lesson from you? 😮 (But one of which I approve.) 

Yes, the map above shows that this "war that started Oct 7, 2023" has some historical precedence—in fact, PLENTY of historical precedence. 

And, as I've said many, many times, just because someone else does something bad, or even does something bad to you, doesn't give you the right to do it also.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

My answer is "yes" to your question above. That's not an unqualified "yes," but it's a "yes" that means you should be doing much, much more of what you describe in your question and much, much less of defending the IDF's revenge killings as you are doing now.

IMO, and in the growing conclusion of most of the world, the IDF's barbarous military actions in Gaza do have a large quality of "revenge" about them. I don't consider them just "retaliatory."

 

   Why is it that so many Pro Palestinians  always seem to speak on behalf of the whole World and give the Whole Worlds opinion about things ?

 

      *The whole World says/thinks  blah blah blah*

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You have finally lost the plot, the lights are on but nobody is in.🥴

The lights are on over here. You just have your sunglasses on to filter in only the light you want to see.

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why is it that so many Pro Palestinians  always seem to speak on behalf of the whole World and give the Whole Worlds opinion about things ?

 

      *The whole World says/thinks  blah blah blah*

New Polling Shows How Much Global Support Israel Has Lost | TIME

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

The lights are on over here. You just have your sunglasses on to filter in only the light you want to see.

What is bad in your eyes is based on your continual defending the terrorists, you are in no position to criticise Israel for wanting to safeguard its own citizens!

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

What? A history lesson from you? 😮 (But one of which I approve.) 

Yes, the map above shows that this "war that started Oct 7, 2023" has some historical precedence—in fact, PLENTY of historical precedence. 

And, as I've said many, many times, just because someone else does something bad, or even does something bad to you, doesn't give you the right to do it also.

What? A history lesson from you?

 

No, the analysis and map by the UN was released just a few days ago.

[Wobblybob]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

New Polling Shows How Much Global Support Israel Has Lost | TIME

Interestingly your link confirms when the war started and it doesn't tally with what you claim.

 

The war began on Oct. 7, when Hamas massacred some 1,200 Israelis and took 240 hostage. Israel's retaliation has resulted in the reported deaths of at least 24,000 Palestinians, most of them women and children. Last week, the International Criminal Court took up South Africa's case charging Israel with committing “genocidal acts” in Gaza.

[Nick Carter icp]

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

New Polling Shows How Much Global Support Israel Has Lost | TIME

 

   That link doesn't back up your  claim that

    "and in the growing conclusion of most of the world, the IDF's barbarous military actions in Gaza do have a large quality of "revenge" about them."

   "Revenge" wasn't even mentioned 

[WDSmart]

15 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

What is bad in your eyes is based on your continual defending the terrorists, you are in no position to criticise Israel for wanting to safeguard its own citizens!

I don't ALWAYS defend the "terrorists." I have NEVER defended their Oct 7 attack or their taking of hostages. I have attempted to explain all that from THEIR perspective, but THEIR perspective is not always MY perspective. And the Israeli perspective is also not always MY perspective, especially as it concerns the bombing and invasion of Gaza.

I'm not criticizing Israel for wanting to DEFEND its own citizens. I'm criticizing Israel for the nature of the IDF's bombing and invasion of Gaza.

And I reserve the right to criticize anyone for anything at any time. 

[WDSmart]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What? A history lesson from you?

 

No, the analysis and map by the UN was released just a few days ago.

Yes, it might have been, but it is a map showing the historical devastation of the entire area. 

[WDSmart]

13 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

24 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

New Polling Shows How Much Global Support Israel Has Lost | TIME

Interestingly your link confirms when the war started and it doesn't tally with what you claim.

Please reread the title of the article... 🤨

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, WDSmart said:

Yes, it might have been, but it is a map showing the historical devastation of the entire area. 

Yes, it might have been

 

No it was 

[ozimoron]

 

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I don't ALWAYS defend the "terrorists." I have NEVER defended their Oct 7 attack or their taking of hostages. I have attempted to explain all that from THEIR perspective, but THEIR perspective is not always MY perspective. And the Israeli perspective is also not always MY perspective, especially as it concerns the bombing and invasion of Gaza.

I'm not criticizing Israel for wanting to DEFEND its own citizens. I'm criticizing Israel for the nature of the IDF's bombing and invasion of Gaza.

And I reserve the right to criticize anyone for anything at any time. 

I'm not criticizing Israel for wanting to DEFEND its own citizens. I'm criticizing Israel for the nature of the IDF's bombing and invasion of Gaza.

 

It's like love and marriage.......you can't have one without the other.

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Please reread the title of the article... 🤨

Please refer to my quote from your link.

[WDSmart]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Yes, it might have been

 

No it was 

So you and that former officer of the IDF say....