9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I was hoping for a "yes" or "no," but, as usual, your answer is just avoiding the question. 

Is it okay to kill "human shields" to get to someone or some group you want to kill?

You do talk nonsense and create noise to cover the reality of what is going on. Hamas see the human shields as a necessary sacrifice, so to them yes its ok for them to be killed. The IDF do everything they can to avoid killing them:

 

The reality is that when it comes to avoiding civilian harm, there is no modern comparison to Israel's war against Hamas. Israel is not fighting a battle like Fallujah, Mosul, or Raqqa; it is fighting a war involving synchronous major urban battles. No military in modern history has faced over 30,000 urban defenders in more than seven cities using human shields and hiding in hundreds of miles of underground networks purposely built under civilian sites, while holding hundreds of hostages.

Despite the unique challenges Israel faces in its war against Hamas, it has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You asked a question about a made up situation which had no connection to the events in this thread .

   Your question has nothing to do with this thread and thus doesn't need to be answered 

Your excuse above should read, "Can't be answered by me without weakening my position." 

Just now, WDSmart said:

Your excuse above should read, "Can't be answered by me without weakening my position." 

 

   You made up a story that has no connection with the situation is this thread .

The Police are not chasing man who has just committed multiple homicides , so your question has no relevance to this thread about a war .

   How you imaginary man being chased by police should be dealt with could well be different to how Hamas would be dealt with 

22 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You do talk nonsense and create noise to cover the reality of what is going on. Hamas see the human shields as a necessary sacrifice, so to them yes its ok for them to be killed. The IDF do everything they can to avoid killing them:

 

The reality is that when it comes to avoiding civilian harm, there is no modern comparison to Israel's war against Hamas. Israel is not fighting a battle like Fallujah, Mosul, or Raqqa; it is fighting a war involving synchronous major urban battles. No military in modern history has faced over 30,000 urban defenders in more than seven cities using human shields and hiding in hundreds of miles of underground networks purposely built under civilian sites, while holding hundreds of hostages.

Despite the unique challenges Israel faces in its war against Hamas, it has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613

Well, IDF's methods of preventing civilian casualties aren't working very well, and all the world knows it. 

Gaza death toll surpasses 30,000 but it's an incomplete count : NPR

Just now, WDSmart said:

Well, IDF's methods of preventing civilian casualties aren't working very well, and all the world knows it. 

Gaza death toll surpasses 30,000 but it's an incomplete count : NPR

Untill you know the breakdown of the spurious Hamas figures they are as much use as one of your analogies. 😂😂😂

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, IDF's methods of preventing civilian casualties aren't working very well, and all the world knows it. 

Gaza death toll surpasses 30,000 but it's an incomplete count : NPR

From your own link

 

"13,000 or so deaths in its overall total of 30,000 are based on accounts from "reliable media sources," though the ministry doesn't cite or say which sources those are"

 

If the IDF were not minimizing then the figure would be much higher, read my link

13 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, IDF's methods of preventing civilian casualties aren't working very well, and all the world knows it. 

Gaza death toll surpasses 30,000 but it's an incomplete count : NPR

 

    About 12 000 of those killed have been Hamas terrorists , so the number of civilians killed has been very low , the enemy combatants to civilians killed ratio is usually much higher than that in wars 

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Human Shields

To all pro-Israeli posters:

Let me try to quash this argument once and for all. I'll give you a similar situation and then ask you a question. I'd like you all to answer it.

Situation: The police are chasing a man who has just committed multiple homicides. He breaks into a house, gathers up a family (man, woman, and two kids), and barricades himself in a room with them. The police enter the house and break down the door to the room. The murderer is armed and is in a corner of the room holding the family, who are now bound, in front of him.

Question: Is it okay for the police to shoot the family, the "human shields," to be able to kill the murderer? 

 

   Keep it to the current situation :

    If a terror group attacks another Country and then goes back to home soil with hostages .

Should the attacked Country then go after those terrorists and free the hostages , or should the attacked Country just forget about the terror attack and forget about  their hostages , for the reason that the terrorists are using their own people as human shields .

   Should Israel surrender to the  terrorists  to save Palestinian human shields ?

32 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

38 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, IDF's methods of preventing civilian casualties aren't working very well, and all the world knows it. 

Gaza death toll surpasses 30,000 but it's an incomplete count : NPR

Untill you know the breakdown of the spurious Hamas figures they are as much use as one of your analogies. 😂😂😂

So, would you argue with a figure of 20,000 or even 10,000? Even if the number of civilians killed were as low as that, IDF's action would still be deplorable. 

34 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

From your own link

 

"13,000 or so deaths in its overall total of 30,000 are based on accounts from "reliable media sources," though the ministry doesn't cite or say which sources those are"

 

If the IDF were not minimizing then the figure would be much higher, read my link

If the IDF were not indiscriminately bombing, killing everyone they thought might be a terrorist, and, oh yes, killing "human shields, the overall total would be much, much lower.

28 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    About 12 000 of those killed have been Hamas terrorists , so the number of civilians killed has been very low , the enemy combatants to civilians killed ratio is usually much higher than that in wars 

So you think 18,000 civilians killed is "very low"? Wow! 😞 

46 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, IDF's methods of preventing civilian casualties aren't working very well, and all the world knows it. 

Gaza death toll surpasses 30,000 but it's an incomplete count : NPR

The IDF never said prevent. That's impossible. They are trying to reduce. 

24 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Keep it to the current situation :

    If a terror group attacks another Country and then goes back to home soil with hostages .

Should the attacked Country then go after those terrorists and free the hostages , or should the attacked Country just forget about the terror attack and forget about  their hostages , for the reason that the terrorists are using their own people as human shields .

   Should Israel surrender to the  terrorists  to save Palestinian human shields ?

My answer: No. Israel should negotiate with the terrorists to save the lives of both the hostages, the "human shields," and even combatants on both sides. 

See how you should answer questions? With a "yes" or "no" (or I don't know), followed, if necessary, by an explanation.

Just now, WDSmart said:

So you think 18,000 civilians killed is "very low"? Wow! 😞 

 

   It is , compared to other wars .

About an average of 20 000 civilians have been killed in Iraq/Afghanistan every year since 2001

Nearly 500 000 civilians have been killed there since 2001

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The IDF never said prevent. That's impossible. They are trying to reduce. 

I took the term "prevent" from Bkk Brian's post, which is at the beginning of this thread of posts:

"Despite the unique challenges Israel faces in its war against Hamas, it has implemented more measures to prevent civilian casualties than any other military in history."

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So, would you argue with a figure of 20,000 or even 10,000? Even if the number of civilians killed were as low as that, IDF's action would still be deplorable. 

I would argue that any death of innocent civilians is tragic, but under the circumstances Hamas has no one but themselves to blame. At the end of the day the Israelis are there to do a job and that is to rid the dangers from these phycopathic killers and secure the release of the hostages, they must never repeat the massacres that happened on 7/10, the prelude to this war.

 

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

My answer: No. Israel should negotiate with the terrorists to save the lives of both the hostages, the "human shields," and even combatants on both sides. 

See how you should answer questions? With a "yes" or "no" (or I don't know), followed, if necessary, by an explanation.

 

   Then there will be regular hostage taking , and every hostage taking would mean Israel giving up more and more concessions .

   Israel would have to agree to all Hamas demands , Hamas would control the Israeli Government and give orders telling them what do to .

   Israel would have to  give Hamas the keys to Israel and Israelis all pack their bags and emigrate and go and live somewhere else

8 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

If the IDF were not indiscriminately bombing, killing everyone they thought might be a terrorist, and, oh yes, killing "human shields, the overall total would be much, much lower.

If Hamas released the hostages and surrendered there would be zero killing. Enough of your games and noise to cover the evil intent of Hamas

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I was hoping for a "yes" or "no," but, as usual, your answer is just avoiding the question. 

Is it okay to kill "human shields" to get to someone or some group you want to kill?

I'd have asked him if it's OK to destroy an entire building full of women and children to kill one Hamas in the building.

I presume that is why they drop very large bombs on a building full of innocent children, destroying the entire building and burying many of the children under the rubble where they can't be rescued because israelis won't allow enough fuel in to move the diggers.

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

So you think 18,000 civilians killed is "very low"? Wow! 😞 

I wonder how many dead children the poster you quoted would consider excessive?

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

If the IDF were not indiscriminately bombing, killing everyone they thought might be a terrorist, and, oh yes, killing "human shields, the overall total would be much, much lower.

You could consider it from the point of view that by killing so many it allows the ones left alive to eat a bit more, considering the israelis are only allowing a bare minimum amount of food in and Gazans are starving. Israelis are so considerate in that way.

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

If Hamas released the hostages and surrendered there would be zero killing. Enough of your games and noise to cover the evil intent of Hamas

I'm not trying to cover the evil intent of Hamas. I'm trying to reveal to you the evil, revengeful actions of the IDF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

 

Hamas’s incursion into Israel on October 7 transformed the politics of the Middle East. Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit) has carried out a forensic analysis of the events of that day – examining seven hours of footage from CCTV, dashcams, personal phones and headcams of dead Hamas fighters, and drawing up a comprehensive list of those killed.

 

In October 7, the I-Unit reveals widespread human rights abuses by Hamas fighters and others who followed them through the fence from Gaza into Israel.
 
But the investigation also found that many of the worst stories that came out in the days following the attack were false. This was especially true of atrocities that were used repeatedly by politicians in Israel and the West to justify the ferocity of the bombardment of the Gaza Strip, such as the mass killing of babies and allegations of widespread and systematic rape.
 
In particular the I-Unit reveals that claims by the Israel Defence Force that it found 8 burned babies at a house in Kibbutz Be’eri were entirely untrue. There were no babies in the house and the 12 civilians inside were killed by Israeli forces when they stormed the house.
 
This was one of a number of incidents where the police and army appear to have killed Israeli citizens.
 
October 7 is a deep dive into the events that led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people, the significance of which will reverberate for decades.

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not trying to cover the evil intent of Hamas. I'm trying to reveal to you the evil, revengeful actions of the IDF.

You constantly make excuses for these terrorist monsters and by Israel trying to make sure another 7/10 never happens again, and by doing so it can never be construed as "revenge". You purposely use incorrect wording to give a little credence to your overly biased posts!

18 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not trying to cover the evil intent of Hamas. I'm trying to reveal to you the evil, revengeful actions of the IDF.

I know exactly what you're doing. Go away

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wonder how many dead children the poster you quoted would consider excessive?

Why don't you ask him instead of talking about him, there's a word for what you are.

34 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0atzea-mPY&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

 

Hamas’s incursion into Israel on October 7 transformed the politics of the Middle East. Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit) has carried out a forensic analysis of the events of that day – examining seven hours of footage from CCTV, dashcams, personal phones and headcams of dead Hamas fighters, and drawing up a comprehensive list of those killed.

 

In October 7, the I-Unit reveals widespread human rights abuses by Hamas fighters and others who followed them through the fence from Gaza into Israel.
 
But the investigation also found that many of the worst stories that came out in the days following the attack were false. This was especially true of atrocities that were used repeatedly by politicians in Israel and the West to justify the ferocity of the bombardment of the Gaza Strip, such as the mass killing of babies and allegations of widespread and systematic rape.
 
In particular the I-Unit reveals that claims by the Israel Defence Force that it found 8 burned babies at a house in Kibbutz Be’eri were entirely untrue. There were no babies in the house and the 12 civilians inside were killed by Israeli forces when they stormed the house.
 
This was one of a number of incidents where the police and army appear to have killed Israeli citizens.
 
October 7 is a deep dive into the events that led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people, the significance of which will reverberate for decades.

Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit)

11 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You constantly make excuses for these terrorist monsters and by Israel trying to make sure another 7/10 never happens again, and by doing so it can never be construed as "revenge". You purposely use incorrect wording to give a little credence to your overly biased posts!

I'm not trying to "make excuses for these terrorist monsters." I admit my posts are predominantly one-sided, but that's because ALL of yours (and others) are also. I am just trying to make sure both sides are presented. 

I do consider the IDF bombing and now invasion of Gaza have a lot of revenge in it. That is the correct wording, the wording I wanted to use to convey the nature of the excessive civilian casualties Gaza has suffered. 

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I know exactly what you're doing. Go away

What! Are you telling me to "go away"? Stop it! You're liable to make me cry! 🥹 

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why don't you ask him instead of talking about him, there's a word for what you are.

Yes, that's "someone who speaks about people in the third person." 😁