Judge to hear arguments on whether to dismiss Trump’s classified documents prosecution

[Social Media]

 

A federal judge is set to hear arguments on Thursday regarding the prosecution of Donald Trump for possession of classified documents, with his legal team contending that the former president had the right to retain these records when he departed the White House for Florida.

 

The crux of the matter revolves around differing interpretations of the Presidential Records Act. Trump's attorneys assert that this legislation granted him the authority to classify the documents as personal and keep them in his possession after his presidency concluded. However, special counsel Jack Smith's team contends that the files Trump is accused of possessing are presidential records, not personal ones, and that the statute does not apply to classified and top-secret documents housed at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida.

 

Prosecutors argue that the Presidential Records Act does not exempt Trump from criminal liability, nor does it allow him to unilaterally designate highly classified presidential records as personal. They maintain that Trump's actions may constitute obstruction of justice and warrant criminal investigation.

 

The outcome of this legal dispute will determine whether the case proceeds to trial or is dismissed. U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon, nominated to the bench by Trump himself, will preside over the hearing and consider the arguments put forth by both sides.

In addition to the dispute over the Presidential Records Act, the judge will also hear arguments on a separate motion filed by Trump's legal team, asserting that the statute forming the basis of the criminal charges against him is unconstitutionally vague as it pertains to a former president.

 

Trump's defense has consistently invoked the Presidential Records Act since the FBI's search of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022. Trump's lawyers argue that he designated the records he retained as personal property, while prosecutors contend that these documents included highly sensitive information related to national security.

 

Judge Cannon, while previously ruling in favor of the special counsel's team on procedural matters, has hinted at the unique nature of prosecuting a former president for possession of classified documents. The case marks the first-ever criminal prosecution of a former U.S. president without charges related to the transmission or delivery of national defense information.

 

Trump faces 40 felony counts in Florida, alleging that he willfully retained classified documents and resisted government demands to return them after leaving office. Prosecutors emphasize the severity of the charges and the alleged misconduct, including Trump's alleged efforts to conceal records and obstruct the FBI investigation.

 

The hearing represents the latest development in one of four prosecutions Trump faces as he endeavors to return to the White House. Both sides have proposed trial dates in the summertime, pending the judge's ruling.

 

15.03.24

Source

 

[Tug]

She didn’t dismiss it I just wish she would expedite it instead of slowing it down 

[jerrymahoney]

23 minutes ago, Tug said:

She didn’t dismiss it I just wish she would expedite it instead of slowing it down 

This page lists Judge Cannon's telephone number. Maybe you should give her a call.

 

https://images.law.com/contrib/content/uploads/fatwire/dailybusinessreview/miami/USDistrictFederalCourt.pdf

 

From NY Times March 14, 2024 :

 

In her order, Judge Cannon acknowledged that Mr. Trump’s lawyers had raised “various arguments warranting serious consideration,” but she added that their concerns about the Espionage Act were better made in “connection with jury-instruction briefing.”

 

Her suggestion that the case could be moving toward dealing with jury issues was the clearest indication she has given so far that it may eventually be headed to trial, though she has yet to set a date.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/14/us/politics/trump-classified-documents-case.html

Edited March 14 by jerrymahoney

[Tug]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

This page lists Judge Cannon's telephone number. Maybe you should give her a call.

 

https://images.law.com/contrib/content/uploads/fatwire/dailybusinessreview/miami/USDistrictFederalCourt.pdf

I’d just get myself in trouble……..thanks just the same 

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, Tug said:

I’d just get myself in trouble……..thanks just the same 

OK. Also:

 

"Although the Motion raises various arguments warranting serious consideration, the Court ultimately determines, following lengthy oral argument, that resolution of the overall question presented depends too greatly on contested instructional questions about still-fluctuating definitions of statutory terms/phrases as charged, along with at least some disputed factual issues as raised in the Motion," the order said.

 

Cannon dismissed the arguments without prejudice, meaning defense lawyers could raise the argument again later in the case.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-expected-attend-hearing-seek-dismissal-classified-documents/story?id=108092856

[thaibeachlovers]

Given that Biden was excused for his crimes regarding holding onto government documents when he wasn't even a president, it's going to be a travesty if Trump is convicted when Biden doesn't even have to stand trial on it.

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

OK. Also:

 

"Although the Motion raises various arguments warranting serious consideration, the Court ultimately determines, following lengthy oral argument, that resolution of the overall question presented depends too greatly on contested instructional questions about still-fluctuating definitions of statutory terms/phrases as charged, along with at least some disputed factual issues as raised in the Motion," the order said.

 

Cannon dismissed the arguments without prejudice, meaning defense lawyers could raise the argument again later in the case.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-expected-attend-hearing-seek-dismissal-classified-documents/story?id=108092856

So, the case is not dismissed.

 

Donny turning up in court didn’t sway the judge he appointed to the bench.

 

 

Of course he never hoped for such a thing.

[andersonat]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Biden was excused for his crimes regarding holding onto government documents when he wasn't even a president, it's going to be a travesty if Trump is convicted when Biden doesn't even have to stand trial on it.

 

TBL,

 

You're going to have to do a tad more reading/"research" in order to learn what DT is actually being charged with in the Florida-Case, in order to understand why Biden was "excused". 

 

 

[HappyExpat57]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Biden was excused for his crimes regarding holding onto government documents when he wasn't even a president, it's going to be a travesty if Trump is convicted when Biden doesn't even have to stand trial on it.

WHY do you keep bringing up this weak tea comparison? Apples and oranges. The crux of the case against the fraudster rapist is that he knowingly fought to hide the documents from the FBI and keep them for himself.

 

You either know this and choose to ignore it or you just enjoy trolling.

[HappyExpat57]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

She didn’t dismiss it I just wish she would expedite it instead of slowing it down 

 

She has been bought and paid for by the fraudster. She is making EVERY choice she can to delay, hoping he gets re-elected so he will then appoint her to an even better position. It's a good thing he won't get re-elected.

[jerrymahoney]

46 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

 

She has been bought and paid for by the fraudster. She is making EVERY choice she can to delay, hoping he gets re-elected so he will then appoint her to an even better position. It's a good thing he won't get re-elected.

The converse may also be true: If she issues any silly orders or motion judgments, all of which except a jury dismissal the feds can appeal, and Trump is NOT again elected, she can maybe look to spend her lifetime Federal judicial appointment in some Florida or other backwater.

[LosLobo]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Biden was excused for his crimes regarding holding onto government documents when he wasn't even a president, it's going to be a travesty if Trump is convicted when Biden doesn't even have to stand trial on it.

 

In your one sentence you have managed to squeeze in a fruit salad of logical fallacies:

1. False Equivalence:  This fallacy occurs when someone assumes that two things should be treated the same because they seem similar, but in fact, the differences are significant. In this case, the situations of Biden and Trump are being compared directly without taking into account the specific details and contexts of each case.

2. Begging the Question/Circular Reasoning:  This occurs when the conclusion of an argument is used as a premise of that same argument. The statement assumes that Biden was “excused for his crimes” as a fact to argue that it would be unfair if Trump is convicted. However, this premise itself is not established as a fact.

3. Ad Hominem:  When an argument is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. In this case, the focus is on Biden and Trump as individuals, rather than the specific actions or legal issues at hand.       

Remember, a strong argument is based on logic and evidence, not on personal attacks or assumptions. 😊

[Chomper Higgot]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:52 AM, jerrymahoney said:

OK. Also:

 

"Although the Motion raises various arguments warranting serious consideration, the Court ultimately determines, following lengthy oral argument, that resolution of the overall question presented depends too greatly on contested instructional questions about still-fluctuating definitions of statutory terms/phrases as charged, along with at least some disputed factual issues as raised in the Motion," the order said.

 

Cannon dismissed the arguments without prejudice, meaning defense lawyers could raise the argument again later in the case.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-expected-attend-hearing-seek-dismissal-classified-documents/story?id=108092856

Jack Smith has responded and directly challenges the Judge’s legally baseless ruling:

‘Writ of mandamus’ !

 

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.428.0.pdf

Edited April 3 by Chomper Higgot

[Danderman123]

I'll translate this into English:

 

IF Judge Cannon issues jury instructions that require the jury to return a Not Guilty verdict, by then, its too late for Jack Smith to appeal.

 

So, he is asking that she propose jury instructions now, so he can appeal now, if necessary.

 

Jack Smith, rather sarcastically, provided some sample jury instructions that would get Trump off the hook.

[Danderman123]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:07 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Biden was excused for his crimes regarding holding onto government documents when he wasn't even a president, it's going to be a travesty if Trump is convicted when Biden doesn't even have to stand trial on it.

We all realize that its difficult for you to grasp the difference between having a handful of classified documents mixed in with boxes of other documents that were returned when discovered, and hiding classified documents from the FBI.

 

These are known facts that you seem unable to understand.

 

Trump required his attorneys to lie about his retaining boxes of classified documents. You apparently thinks that's okay.

[Chomper Higgot]

43 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I'll translate this into English:

 

IF Judge Cannon issues jury instructions that require the jury to return a Not Guilty verdict, by then, its too late for Jack Smith to appeal.

 

So, he is asking that she propose jury instructions now, so he can appeal now, if necessary.

 

Jack Smith, rather sarcastically, provided some sample jury instructions that would get Trump off the hook.

He’s also set the stage for the appellate court to consider if Judge Cannon is making judgements void of legal basis and pointing out she is clearly exhibiting impartiality.

 

 

 

 

[Danderman123]

34 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He’s also set the stage for the appellate court to consider if Judge Cannon is making judgements void of legal basis and pointing out she is clearly NOT exhibiting impartiality.

 

Fixed it for you

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Fixed it for you

Thank you.

 

Yes you are correct.

 

She bending over backwards to help the guy who she owed her job to.

 

Interestingly, there only needs to be an appearance of bias for the judge to be removed from the case.

 

I have the feeling Jack Smith had been giving her all the rope she needs. 

[jerrymahoney]

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I'll translate this into English:

 

IF Judge Cannon issues jury instructions that require the jury to return a Not Guilty verdict, by then, its too late for Jack Smith to appeal.

 

So, he is asking that she propose jury instructions now, so he can appeal now, if necessary.

 

Jack Smith, rather sarcastically, provided some sample jury instructions that would get Trump off the hook.

Opinion - Trump’s threats to the rule of law continue

By Jennifer Rubin

April 3, 2024 at 12:00 p.m. EDT

 

A reader asks: Can Judge Cannon order a directed verdict of acquittal in the documents case in the event Trump is convicted by a jury, and is there any recourse for special counsel Smith if she does?

 

Answer: If she judges that the evidence is insufficient for a reasonable jury to convict, she can direct a verdict in the defendant’s favor. There is no appeal because any attempt to retry the defendant would constitute double jeopardy. This is one really good reason to seek her recusal.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/03/trump-courts-newsletter-undermine/

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

This is one really good reason to seek her recusal.

Correct