Big layoffs ahead in the automotive workshop sector - hold on to your hats!

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Not surprising really, they are now up against serious competition from manufactures offering much better products. Whenever I get round to buying my next car it will definitely be an EV but I wouldn't consider a Tesla for a minute - they are just not as good as their rivals.

https://sea.mashable.com/transportation/32197/the-cybertrucks-failure-is-now-complete

[josephbloggs]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Not surprising really, they are now up against serious competition from manufactures offering much better products. Whenever I get round to buying my next car it will definitely be an EV but I wouldn't consider a Tesla for a minute - they are just not as good as their rivals.

Elon Musk posted this on Twitter / X this morning. Absolutely shockingly misleading! They are close to $40k - you can't include petrol savings in the list price (with small print)!! And the petrol savings are over what timespan?

I generally like Elon for his achievements and vision, although dislike his ring wing nonsense. But this just seems desperate and is really shady. Imagine a train company saying London to Liverpool is £40 (rather than the £100 it actually is) because you are saving the £60 you'd have to spend on petrol if you were to drive. Tesla must be seriously hurting, and stunts like this diminish their credibility.

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by josephbloggs

[Gweiloman]

18 hours ago, Presnock said:

The switch to EV in the US reportedly has already hit the brakes as Americans are used to climbing into their vehicle and driving for hours without having to stop except for maybe a "pit stop" and the EV's just cannot do those long trips YET.  Also the cost of vehicles is becoming difficult for many as wages have not come up to the losses due to inflation and housing is much more expensive than ever before with taxes being increased to pay for all the illegals pouring in.  Once people realize the pollution costs of the materials needed for the EV's they will shudder to think they bought into this by the big $$$$ companies.  Just like Big Pharma - over 500 new billionaires duirng the COVID pandemic and people are still paying for that.  Now we are learning that foods can prevent and cure illnesses instead of drugs and medicines and have no harmful effects on the human body.  Again we were led stray by the Big $$$ companies.  China meanwhile is trying to cover the world with their EV's...should be interesting anyway in my opinion.

The poor performance of EV sales in the US has been well documented and discussed. Very simply, inferior products at exorbitant prices. Add to that, poor charging infrastructure. It’s a no brainer.

[steve187]

On 3/16/2024 at 9:39 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Can we please have a source for that statistic?

the nation reports there are 512,343 ev's ( nov 2023)in Thailand against 20,463,502 (nov 2023) ice vehicles(ceicdata.com)

[connda]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:50 PM, george said:

The electric car fleet is growing and it is at the expense of fossil-fueled vehicles.

When EV spin meets the realities of "maintenance costs" and lack of demand.

Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars
Reuters, Jan 13, 2024

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

the nation reports there are 512,343 ev's ( nov 2023)in Thailand against 20,463,502 (nov 2023) ice vehicles(ceicdata.com)

Not everyone on this forum would consider them to be EV's

This number can be divided by categories as follow:

Battery EV: 120,719 units; Hybrid EV (benzene): 326,178; Hybrid EV (diesel): 11,596; Hybrid EV (LPG/benzene): 400; Plug-in hybrid EV (benzene): 53,172; Plug-in hybrid EV (diesel): 278.

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40033855

[Ralf001]

15 minutes ago, connda said:

When EV spin meets the realities of "maintenance costs" and lack of demand.

Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars
Reuters, Jan 13, 2024

 

Not selling all of them I read... 20,000 or 1/3 of their EV fleet.

[ThaiFelix]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:55 PM, John Drake said:

 

Brakes, too?

They never work here.........according to news reports that is

[vinny41]

12 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Elon Musk posted this on Twitter / X this morning. Absolutely shockingly misleading! They are close to $40k - you can't include petrol savings in the list price (with small print)!! And the petrol savings are over what timespan?

I generally like Elon for his achievements and vision, although dislike his ring wing nonsense. But this just seems desperate and is really shady. Imagine a train company saying London to Liverpool is £40 (rather than the £100 it actually is) because you are saving the £60 you'd have to spend on petrol if you were to drive. Tesla must be seriously hurting, and stunts like this diminish their credibility.

 

 

 

The Tesla website shows $6,000 gas savings over a 5 year period 10,000 miles per year

https://www.tesla.com/modely/design?financeModalTab=gas_savings#overview

if the buyer qualifies for a federal tax credit then $7,500 would be taken off the $42,990 base price

So potentially a combined saving of $13,500 from the  $42,990 base price

[connda]

Big layoffs ahead in the automotive workshop sector - hold on to your hats!

 

Here's what is more likely.  Those automotive technicians will begin to work for independent automobile repair shops specializing in maintaining ICE vehicles as that sector of used car repair will outstrip demand for EV by a whole class of Thai citizens who will never be able to afford to purchase no less maintain EVs.  Think big cities like Chiang Mai.  Where are they going to put the acres of charging stations required to keep commercial vehicles, like Songtaews, running. Who's gonna pay for the extensive expansion of what will become an overloaded grid when the Thai government can't even built a few kilometers of bullet-train track in a timely and affordable manner?  Then you have to spend your working hours changing a vehicle instead of earning money. Then like Hertz auto-rentals, the maintenance requirements for EV are going to negatively affect the bottom like of all companies with EV fleets as compared to their competitors who maintain ICE fleets.  But then you'll say, "The government will force them to transition."  Ok - at the potential of causing massive social unrest by disenfranchised citizens who no longer can afford to drive.
I don't see EVs taking much of the market in this highly nationalistic, developing nation with many of its citizens still living in third-world conditions where coal-fired ageing electric grids simply are not dependable as they aren't right now.  Thais are up to their eyeballs in debt.  So riddle me this: who is going to extend over-extended, debt-ridden Thai citizens more debt in order to ditch their ICE vehicles and buy brand new EVs. Or pay for the massive increase in insurance costs as a minor fender bender becomes a 200K to 400K THB repair job.  Average Thais won't be able to afford to repair their EVs so who will pay for the loans needed to repair what would be minor damage to an ICE vehicle? 

"But we need to 'save the planet'."

I'll buy that nonsense when I see the Obamas, the Gores, and the Bidens ditch their beach-front properties and private jets due to melting polar ice caps rising the sea levels.  Until then?  🐃💩

Edited April 21 by connda

[connda]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The Tesla website shows $6,000 gas savings over a 5 year period 10,000 miles per year

https://www.tesla.com/modely/design?financeModalTab=gas_savings#overview

if the buyer qualifies for a federal tax credit then $7,500 would be taken off the $42,990 base price

So potentially a combined saving of $13,500 from the  $42,990 base price

My car cost $10,000 brand new and gets in-excess of 50+ miles per gallon.  Why would I want an expensive EV?  Right off the bat my saving are $32,990 and I'm not sucking off of the teats of a government who is using taxpayer money to essentially subsidize its wealthier than average citizens to purchase over-priced EVs.

[josephbloggs]

12 minutes ago, connda said:

Big layoffs ahead in the automotive workshop sector - hold on to your hats!

 

Here's what is more likely.  Those automotive technicians will begin to work for independent automobile repair shops specializing in maintaining ICE vehicles as that sector of used car repair will outstrip demand for EV by a whole class of Thai citizens who will never be able to afford to purchase no less maintain EVs.  Think big cities like Chiang Mai.  Where are they going to put the acres of charging stations required to keep commercial vehicles, like Songtaews, running. Who's gonna pay for the extensive expansion of what will become an overloaded grid when the Thai government can't even built a few kilometers of bullet-train track in a timely and affordable manner?  Then you have to spend your working hours changing a vehicle instead of earning money. Then like Hertz auto-rentals, the maintenance requirements for EV are going to negatively affect the bottom like of all companies with EV fleets as compared to their competitors who maintain ICE fleets.  But then you'll say, "The government will force them to transition."  Ok - at the potential of causing massive social unrest by disenfranchised citizens who no longer can afford to drive.
I don't see EVs taking much of the market in this highly nationalistic, developing nation with many of its citizens still living in third-world conditions where coal-fired ageing electric grids simply are not dependable as they aren't right now.  Thais are up to their eyeballs in debt.  So riddle me this: who is going to extend over-extended, debt-ridden Thai citizens more debt in order to ditch their ICE vehicles and buy brand new EVs. Or pay for the massive increase in insurance costs as a minor fender bender becomes a 200K to 400K THB repair job.  Average Thais won't be able to afford to repair their EVs so who will pay for the loans needed to repair what would be minor damage to an ICE vehicle? 

"But we need to 'save the planet'."

I'll buy that nonsense when I see the Obamas, the Gores, and the Bidens ditch their beach-front properties due to melting polar ice caps rising the sea levels.  Until then?  🐃💩

Oh my word, there is so much wrong in this post I don't know where to start,

EVs are more expensive than ICEVs? Really? 

And EVs are more expensive and complicated to maintain? Really?  Do you understand what an EV is and how it works? COnversely do you understand what an ICEV is an how it works and how often they need servicing?

[billd766]

On 3/18/2024 at 11:25 AM, JBChiangRai said:

fake story

 

ex-rental vehicles company went bust

True story.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/

 

The story was dated 17 August 2023

 

It seems as though the oldest EV.s dumped are now about 7 years old and obsolete already, and some are newer than that.

 

A lot of other links on the internet telling the same or a similar story, if you want to do a little research to sort out true and fake stories and publish the links.

 

Do you have the link to prove that it is a fake story?

[steve187]

1 hour ago, connda said:

My car cost $10,000 brand new and gets in-excess of 50+ miles per gallon.  Why would I want an expensive EV?  Right off the bat my saving are $32,990 and I'm not sucking off of the teats of a government who is using taxpayer money to essentially subsidize its wealthier than average citizens to purchase over-priced EVs.

is that $10,000 in Thailand, what is it

[Ralf001]

13 minutes ago, steve187 said:

is that $10,000 in Thailand, what is it

 

Those horrid little Suzuki Celerio death traps are around 10k new... In Thailand

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

True story.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/

 

The story was dated 17 August 2023

 

It seems as though the oldest EV.s dumped are now about 7 years old and obsolete already, and some are newer than that.

 

A lot of other links on the internet telling the same or a similar story, if you want to do a little research to sort out true and fake stories and publish the links.

 

Do you have the link to prove that it is a fake story?

yes your own link suggests it’s a fake story and if I may quote

 

This time, the cars were likely deserted after the ride-hailing companies that owned them failed, or because they were about to become obsolete 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Big layoffs ahead in the automotive workshop sector - hold on to your hats!

 

Here's what is more likely.  Those automotive technicians will begin to work for independent automobile repair shops specializing in maintaining ICE vehicles as that sector of used car repair will outstrip demand for EV by a whole class of Thai citizens who will never be able to afford to purchase no less maintain EVs.  Think big cities like Chiang Mai.  Where are they going to put the acres of charging stations required to keep commercial vehicles, like Songtaews, running. Who's gonna pay for the extensive expansion of what will become an overloaded grid when the Thai government can't even built a few kilometers of bullet-train track in a timely and affordable manner?  Then you have to spend your working hours changing a vehicle instead of earning money. Then like Hertz auto-rentals, the maintenance requirements for EV are going to negatively affect the bottom like of all companies with EV fleets as compared to their competitors who maintain ICE fleets.  But then you'll say, "The government will force them to transition."  Ok - at the potential of causing massive social unrest by disenfranchised citizens who no longer can afford to drive.
I don't see EVs taking much of the market in this highly nationalistic, developing nation with many of its citizens still living in third-world conditions where coal-fired ageing electric grids simply are not dependable as they aren't right now.  Thais are up to their eyeballs in debt.  So riddle me this: who is going to extend over-extended, debt-ridden Thai citizens more debt in order to ditch their ICE vehicles and buy brand new EVs. Or pay for the massive increase in insurance costs as a minor fender bender becomes a 200K to 400K THB repair job.  Average Thais won't be able to afford to repair their EVs so who will pay for the loans needed to repair what would be minor damage to an ICE vehicle? 

"But we need to 'save the planet'."

I'll buy that nonsense when I see the Obamas, the Gores, and the Bidens ditch their beach-front properties and private jets due to melting polar ice caps rising the sea levels.  Until then?  🐃💩

You don’t understand EV’s, you need very few charging stations in cities near your home. We will never need or have acres of charging stations.

[ba ba]

On 3/16/2024 at 1:09 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Brakes can last the lifetime of the EV, it rarely uses the brakes, instead turning the kinetic energy of movement back into stored energy in the battery instead of heat as in a legacy vehicle.

 

 

Typical battery life in forecasted to be 18-20 years, eg longer than the life of the vehicle.

have you had a flat tyre yet 

[Photoguy21]

On 3/17/2024 at 1:40 PM, vinny41 said:

CEO steps down after being hit with expensive EV repairs and low resale prices following purchase of 100,000 Teslas

https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/

Musk's price cuts crash Tesla values

https://www.fudzilla.com/news/58616-musk-s-price-cuts-crash-tesla-values

Rental Company Sixt Phases Out Tesla EVs From Fleet

The German rental car giant says the reduced residual value, and high repair costs as the reasons why it's dropping Teslas.

https://insideevs.com/news/699689/tesla-sixt-ev-fleet/

Musk said Tesla cars would rise in value, but the opposite happened

Its simple cutting prices because your sales are falling does have a knoc

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/03/cars/musk-tesla-cars-value-ev-prices/index.html

cutting prices due to falling sales does affect the value of the cars for  existing customers

Exactly. Second hand value of EV's will be pennies. Anyone buying a second hand EV will assume that a battery replacement will be necessary and that does not come cheap, not to mention the charging time and the availability of chargers.

[JBChiangRai]

32 minutes ago, ba ba said:

have you had a flat tyre yet 

I left some screws on the drive and did have a slow puncture, B-Quik repair punctures for free.

 

27 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Exactly. Second hand value of EV's will be pennies. Anyone buying a second hand EV will assume that a battery replacement will be necessary and that does not come cheap, not to mention the charging time and the availability of chargers.

The current values are proving you wrong, I have sold 2 secondhand EV’s and another member here has sold one, they are holding up as well or better than ICE.

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Those horrid little Suzuki Celerio death traps are around 10k new... In Thailand

You'd rate a Celerio that highly?

Couldn't even drive one comfortably and I'm only 6ft. Build quality was appalling, even wifey turned her nose up at it so we went for the NETA V for the school run. It fulfills the task brilliantly, cutting the monthly fuel bill by 80% compared to the Triton we used to run.

[Photoguy21]

36 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I left some screws on the drive and did have a slow puncture, B-Quik repair punctures for free.

 

The current values are proving you wrong, I have sold 2 secondhand EV’s and another member here has sold one, they are holding up as well or better than ICE.

Good for you but batteries do not last forever no matter how much you look after them and for an EV they are not cheap.

[Photoguy21]

37 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I left some screws on the drive and did have a slow puncture, B-Quik repair punctures for free.

 

The current values are proving you wrong, I have sold 2 secondhand EV’s and another member here has sold one, they are holding up as well or better than ICE.

Question for you, if EV's are so good why did you sell 2 of them? You imply they last as long as an ICE vehicle so it would be reasonable to assume you would have kept them.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Question for you, if EV's are so good why did you sell 2 of them? You imply they last as long as an ICE vehicle so it would be reasonable to assume you would have kept them.

Probably got a few quid, if you have, changing a care every couple of years is the norm, let the second hand buyer deal with any aggro.....😋

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Good for you but batteries do not last forever no matter how much you look after them and for an EV they are not cheap.

 

2 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Question for you, if EV's are so good why did you sell 2 of them? You imply they last as long as an ICE vehicle so it would be reasonable to assume you would have kept them.

Battery life is expected to be 18 to 20 years, and they typically say they should outlast the vehicle.

 

I sold the first EV because it was two years old, coming out of warranty, and a very expensive car and got out whilst there was still a long waiting list. It was ruinously expensive if it broke. A set of four tires was over ฿100,000 too.

 

I sold the second EV, an MG EP+ because I bought a BYD Seal Performance on a spur of the moment and passed down my MG4 to my daughter and sold her MG EP+ 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Photoguy21 said:

Exactly. Second hand value of EV's will be pennies. Anyone buying a second hand EV will assume that a battery replacement will be necessary and that does not come cheap, not to mention the charging time and the availability of chargers.

Electric vehicle market faces risk from non-performing loans

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo.

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

[billd766]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

yes your own link suggests it’s a fake story and if I may quote

 

This time, the cars were likely deserted after the ride-hailing companies that owned them failed, or because they were about to become obsolete 

Actually it wasn't my story but picked up internationally.

 

If the vehicles were abandoned for whatever reason and not false. then the story is true.

Unless of course you come up with a better link to say that the story is false.

 

It doesn't matter that the ride-hailing companies that owned them failed, or because they were about to become obsolete, but the fact is the vehicles actually were and still are abandoned .

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Question for you, if EV's are so good why did you sell 2 of them? You imply they last as long as an ICE vehicle so it would be reasonable to assume you would have kept them.

What an odd question. People sell ICEVs too to trade up for a new model. Does that mean ICEVS aren't any good?

[zhounan]

You love technology and innovation until you're the victim.

 

We are all underestimating robotization.

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Exactly. Second hand value of EV's will be pennies. Anyone buying a second hand EV will assume that a battery replacement will be necessary and that does not come cheap, not to mention the charging time and the availability of chargers.

Last October in the Facebook groups I did see approx 10-20 Byd atto 3 appear from owners that want to sell and buy the Seal model used prices advertised were from B800,000 -B1,100,000 the top end pricing was very close to the official retail price for the extended version

Problem for both sellers and buyers as finance wouldn't lend on used ev payment options were limited to cash or taking over the finance contract (Can be expensive if original buyer went for low down payment option and finance repayments over 72 months

So some people took a B400k hit on a few months old car because they wanted the seal model

I have seen recently someone wants to offload their November Byd Atto3 model problem for them total outstanding on their finance agreement was B1.3million baht no-one is going to pay that amount on a used 2023 model when a brand new atto3 extended can be purchased for B949,900