JBChiangRai Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said: Cost of the EV battery includes manufacture and destruction ? Ask me in 20 years, I "may" need to replace it then, but I doubt it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korat Kiwi Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Toyota was No1 in NZ for pickup truck for years. Partially because the competition was so weak bordering on non existent. However Toyota appeared to test on their laurels and never upgraded what was bound for the NZ market. Along came Ford a few years ago with their new beaut Ranger. Farmers switched overnight to this new and comfortable pickup truck (Called a ute in NZ and Oz). Toyota has since updated what is being sent to NZ, they are still doing very well with their car fleet but it will take some time to regain their foothold on utes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john donson Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 i don't have a car here in TH to avoid those headaches and costs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 17 hours ago, vinny41 said: UK electric share of the market is 2.1% https://uk.motor1.com/news/710991/car-numbers-european-roads-by-country/ I am assuming that report means cars on the road as it quotes Norway with 20% whereas 90% of new cars sold in Norway are BEV's 15 hours ago, Ralf001 said: Cost of the EV battery includes manufacture and destruction ? I think you mean recycling rather than destruction, Lithium is a rare earth and requires a lot of expensive processing to extract it from the dirt, whereas it exists in vast proportions in a battery, so you would obviously recycle it. The problem is, with the exception of air-cooled batteries, we are still decades away from needing to replace EV's batteries. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 20 hours ago, Madgee said: You keep harping on about 'Most of your charging is done at home overnight' ...... My neighbour desperately wants an EV (stupid man) mainly because he thinks they are fashionable but cannot charge it at home as his car would be parked on the road away from his house. How about those living in condo blocks with very few chargers or even not allowed in the car parks? Respectfully, you use this point over and over again, that's your situation so sometimes start seeing it from another perspective. I'm not doubting the (at present) attractiveness of owning an EV for some but an EV certainly is not suitable for me and many others. It has been mentioned numerous times on various threads that if one doesn’t have access to home charging, owning an EV can be challenging. Having said that, it’s still very doable for the average motorist who mainly uses his car for the daily work commute. Go to a DC charging station once a week, plug it in for 30-40 mins and do any of the following: - watch Netflix or HBO GO or YT on the big infotainment screen - get something to eat - get a massage - go shopping - take a walk - walk the dog - play on the phone - call a friend or a relative - catch up on emails - read a book There are countless things to do while waiting for the car to charge, gloating in the fact that you are saving yourself lots of money compared to driving an ICEV. Your neighbour may not be as stupid as … 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: I am assuming that report means cars on the road as it quotes Norway with 20% whereas 90% of new cars sold in Norway are BEV's I think you mean recycling rather than destruction, Lithium is a rare earth and requires a lot of expensive processing to extract it from the dirt, whereas it exists in vast proportions in a battery, so you would obviously recycle it. The problem is, with the exception of air-cooled batteries, we are still decades away from needing to replace EV's batteries. That's what the title stated in the article All cars on the roads of Europe: The numbers country by country How many are there? How old are they? What is the density? Which fuel is used? Here comes the country comparison As stated if the point of EV's is climate change you need to look at all vehicles on the road not just focus on a small minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 5 minutes ago, vinny41 said: As stated if the point of EV's is climate change you need to look at all vehicles on the road not just focus on a small minority I agree with you on climate change, however on the phase we are in of the adoption cycle it is percentage of new sales that points to which phase we are in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madgee Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 12 minutes ago, Gweiloman said: There are countless things to do while waiting for the car to charge, gloating in the fact that you are saving yourself lots of money compared to driving an ICEV. Your neighbour may not be as stupid as … Another one where it's all about money! Duh. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 11 minutes ago, Madgee said: Another one where it's all about money! Duh. Money makes the world go around The world go around The world go around Money makes the world go around It makes the world go 'round. A mark, a yen, a buck or a pound A buck or a yen A buck or a pound. Is all that makes the world go around That clinking, clanking sound Can make the world go 'round Money money money money Money money money money Money money money If you happen to rich And you feel like a night's entertainment You can pay for a gay escapade If you happen to be rich and alone And you need a companion You can ring (ting-a-ling) for the maid If you happen to be rich And you find you are left by your lover And you moan and you groan quite a lot You can take it on the chin Call a cab and begin to recover On your 14-karat yacht! What!? Money makes the world go around The world go around The world go around Money makes the world go aroung Of that we both are sure On being poor! Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money Money money money, money money money Money money money, money money money Money money money, money money money Money money money, money money money When you haven't any coal in the stove And you freeze in the winter And you curse to the wind at your fate When you haven't any shoes on your feet Your coat's thin as paper And you look 30 pounds underweight When you go to get a word of advice From the fat little pastor He will tell you to love evermore But when hunger comes to rap Rat-a-tat rat-a-tat at the window (At the window!) Who's there? (hunger) oh, hunger! See how love flies out the door For, money makes the world go around The world go around The world Money makes the world go 'round The clinking, clanking sound of Money money money money Money money money money. Get a little, get a little Money money money money Mark, a yen, a buck or a pound That clinking, clanking, clunking sound Is all that makes the world go 'round It makes the world go 'round! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf001 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 31 minutes ago, Gweiloman said: It has been mentioned numerous times on various threads that if one doesn’t have access to home charging, owning an EV can be challenging. Having said that, it’s still very doable for the average motorist who mainly uses his car for the daily work commute. Go to a DC charging station once a week, plug it in for 30-40 mins and do any of the following: - watch Netflix or HBO GO or YT on the big infotainment screen - get something to eat - get a massage - go shopping - take a walk - walk the dog - play on the phone - call a friend or a relative - catch up on emails - read a book There are countless things to do while waiting for the car to charge, gloating in the fact that you are saving yourself lots of money compared to driving an ICEV. Your neighbour may not be as stupid as … With a long charge lead you could park behind the charge station and get into a bit of dogging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 20 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: I agree with you on climate change, however on the phase we are in of the adoption cycle it is percentage of new sales that points to which phase we are in. Personally I think once there is an affordable solution available to all vehicles the government should announce a phase out plan on vehicles starting from Euro 1 emissions to Euro 7 The plan should be announced 5 years in advance to allow businesses to prepare and budget for changes and each phase should have a 3 year life span Yes it would take 26 years to phase out completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, vinny41 said: Personally I think once there is an affordable solution available to all vehicles the government should announce a phase out plan on vehicles starting from Euro 1 emissions to Euro 7 The plan should be announced 5 years in advance to allow businesses to prepare and budget for changes and each phase should have a 3 year life span Yes it would take 26 years to phase out completely All new cars will be electric in 11 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said: All new cars will be electric in 11 years. Think more like 20 years allowing for slippage However, the government has pledged to continue supporting the production of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. Thailand’s Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin stated that he wants the nation to serve as a “last centre” of ICE production until the usage of the technology completely diminishes. More precisely, he reassured that Thailand would continue to support the manufacturing of ICE vehicles for the next 10-15 years. https://asiafundmanagers.com/us/policy-focus-on-ice-vehicles-to-slowdown-thailands-ev-adoption/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 3/16/2024 at 4:32 PM, eisfeld said: The truck filled up at a pump which needs electricity. Those charming hand operated pumps disappeared from my area. The trucks fill up at a facility which likely has it's own generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Gweiloman said: There are countless things to do while waiting for the car to charge, gloating in the fact that you are saving yourself lots of money compared to driving an ICEV. Your neighbour may not be as stupid as … Only till the government brings in road user charges, and with a resale value of $0 will they be gloating when it comes time to buy a new car? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 17 hours ago, Korat Kiwi said: Toyota was No1 in NZ for pickup truck for years. Partially because the competition was so weak bordering on non existent. However Toyota appeared to test on their laurels and never upgraded what was bound for the NZ market. Along came Ford a few years ago with their new beaut Ranger. Farmers switched overnight to this new and comfortable pickup truck (Called a ute in NZ and Oz). Toyota has since updated what is being sent to NZ, they are still doing very well with their car fleet but it will take some time to regain their foothold on utes. Given that parking spaces at NZ supermarkets were done for an average size car, those huge rangers must be a headache to park, I can barely get out of my car as the spaces are so narrow, and my car isn't a monster truck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 14 minutes ago, vinny41 said: Think more like 20 years allowing for slippage However, the government has pledged to continue supporting the production of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. Thailand’s Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin stated that he wants the nation to serve as a “last centre” of ICE production until the usage of the technology completely diminishes. More precisely, he reassured that Thailand would continue to support the manufacturing of ICE vehicles for the next 10-15 years. https://asiafundmanagers.com/us/policy-focus-on-ice-vehicles-to-slowdown-thailands-ev-adoption/ I don’t think there will be any slippage, there’s no need for it. Sretta will be long gone too. Thailand may manufacture ICE vehicles after 2035 but they won’t be for the domestic market. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 19 hours ago, vinny41 said: Hertz announced its EV sell-down plans in January, citing lackluster demand, costly depreciation and expensive repairs not just weak demand combination of all the above Rental Company Sixt Phases Out Tesla EVs From Fleet The German rental car giant says the reduced residual value, and high repair costs as the reasons why it's dropping Teslas. https://insideevs.com/news/699689/tesla-sixt-ev-fleet/ meanwhile more bad news for BYD international sales BYD’s Quality Problems Hit International Markets: Report EVs piling in European warehouses and logistics-related quality issues are new headaches for the world’s largest EV maker. While mold can be a common occurrence in cars, especially when they’re stored for a long duration in humid weather, the issue with BYD cars in Europe was that they didn’t receive the proper treatment to have the mold removed. In Thailand, where Chinese EVs have taken the domestic automotive market by storm, BYD’s quality issues seem to be mounting. Complaints of paint and plastic peeling have become public https://insideevs.com/news/712148/byd-quality-problems-hit-international-markets/ China EV imports are ‘landing in Europe with mold’ - 10,000 unsold cars sit in warehouses At the end of 2023, BYD had over 10,000 passenger cars sitting in European warehouses; the certificates authorizing their sale in the European Union will expire soon, The Wall Street Journal reports. https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1877252/china-ev-imports-europe-mold-cars-warehouses UK electric share of the market is 2.1% https://uk.motor1.com/news/710991/car-numbers-european-roads-by-country/ Yay. The ICE fights back. The luvvies will be sorry when they try to sell theirs. 5555555555555555 I saw a news article a while back. There are thousands of unsellable EVs in China because during covid no one was buying and after covid they didn't have the tech that people want, as obsolete already. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 18 minutes ago, vinny41 said: Think more like 20 years allowing for slippage If anyone thinks there will not be a better tech for cars 20 years from now I have a few bridges for sale, going cheap and barely used. We might not even own cars at all, and just use auto drive taxis powered by who knows what, or WW3 might have made us revert to walking or horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Yay. The ICE fights back. The luvvies will be sorry when they try to sell theirs. 5555555555555555 I saw a news article a while back. There are thousands of unsellable EVs in China because during covid no one was buying and after covid they didn't have the tech that people want, as obsolete already. fake story ex-rental vehicles company went bust 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Just now, JBChiangRai said: I don’t think there will be any slippage, there’s no need for it. Sretta will be long gone too. Thailand may manufacture ICE vehicles after 2035 but they won’t be for the domestic market. I disagree we have seen slippage across the world from the UK, Europe These ICE manufactures will have lock tight contracts with the Thai government to produce vehicles for both the domestic market and export and who knows what will be selling in 10-15 years time if we time travel back to between 2009-2014 how many electric cars sold in Thailand during that period i suspect very few if any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korat Kiwi Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Given that parking spaces at NZ supermarkets were done for an average size car, those huge rangers must be a headache to park, I can barely get out of my car as the spaces are so narrow, and my car isn't a monster truck. That is true, however if you don't live in the main centres the parking areas are hardly ever full. If I had a new wagon I'd probably park it well away from other cars. I know shopping trolleys still cause a lot of dents scratches etc but at least you may not have over eager brats opening a car door onto your vehicle. Those Rangers are nice but a bit over the top for me. My brother has got a 2009 Toyota landcruiser series 200. A big brute of a wagon. Way outside my pay scale at NZ$60K second hand. But at least he uses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 28 minutes ago, vinny41 said: I disagree we have seen slippage across the world from the UK, Europe These ICE manufactures will have lock tight contracts with the Thai government to produce vehicles for both the domestic market and export and who knows what will be selling in 10-15 years time if we time travel back to between 2009-2014 how many electric cars sold in Thailand during that period i suspect very few if any The UK has slipped to 2035, the world seems nailed on that date and we are on target, there is no reason to anticipate any slippage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: The UK has slipped to 2035, the world seems nailed on that date and we are on target, there is no reason to anticipate any slippage. There will always be slippage in 2011 UK government announce that all homes and businesses will have smart meter's fitted by 2019 currently the rollout stands at 57% since the announcement was made in 2011 they have discovered that meter's in basements or flats don't work . However, it has adjusted its deadlines three times and reduced its target installation levels for smart meters from “‘all homes and small businesses’” in 2019, to its current target of 74.5% of homes and nearly 69% of small businesses to have smart meters by the end of 2025. At the end of March 2023, more than a decade after the rollout started, only 57% of all electricity and gas meters were smart. https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/197947/delayed-smart-meter-programme-fails-to-hit-targets-and-secure-public-support/ I predict the same will happen for petrol and diesel phase out of new cars France, Austria, Spain have push the date back to 2040 Germany was pushing back last year until it received concessions to allow for e-fuels and was joined by Italy, Poland and the Czech Republic. https://www.globalfleet.com/en/safety-environment/europe/features/road-net-zero-clear-journey-not?a=API07&t[0]=Emissions&t[1]=Electric Hybrid&t[2]=Sustainability&curl=1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 18 minutes ago, vinny41 said: There will always be slippage in 2011 UK government announce that all homes and businesses will have smart meter's fitted by 2019 currently the rollout stands at 57% since the announcement was made in 2011 they have discovered that meter's in basements or flats don't work . However, it has adjusted its deadlines three times and reduced its target installation levels for smart meters from “‘all homes and small businesses’” in 2019, to its current target of 74.5% of homes and nearly 69% of small businesses to have smart meters by the end of 2025. At the end of March 2023, more than a decade after the rollout started, only 57% of all electricity and gas meters were smart. https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/197947/delayed-smart-meter-programme-fails-to-hit-targets-and-secure-public-support/ I predict the same will happen for petrol and diesel phase out of new cars France, Austria, Spain have push the date back to 2040 Germany was pushing back last year until it received concessions to allow for e-fuels and was joined by Italy, Poland and the Czech Republic. https://www.globalfleet.com/en/safety-environment/europe/features/road-net-zero-clear-journey-not?a=API07&t[0]=Emissions&t[1]=Electric Hybrid&t[2]=Sustainability&curl=1 I hope I am still around to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 The Thai Government target for EV production is Amongst them are the 30@30 policy that aims to transition 30% of its auto production to EVs by 2030 So that a target on 30% EV production by 2030 leaving 70% ICE production if it takes 7 years to get to 30% how many years will it take to get to 100% 16 years from now maybe 2040 https://asiafundmanagers.com/us/policy-focus-on-ice-vehicles-to-slowdown-thailands-ev-adoption/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, vinny41 said: The Thai Government target for EV production is Amongst them are the 30@30 policy that aims to transition 30% of its auto production to EVs by 2030 So that a target on 30% EV production by 2030 leaving 70% ICE production if it takes 7 years to get to 30% how many years will it take to get to 100% 16 years from now maybe 2040 https://asiafundmanagers.com/us/policy-focus-on-ice-vehicles-to-slowdown-thailands-ev-adoption/ I think the 30@30 policy is about right to achieve domestic sales to be 100% EV’s by 2035 which is also their policy, the two policies are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary they are complementary. Thailand accounts for 72% of all EV sales in ASEAN countries, so it’s only to be expected that ICE vehicles will continue to be exported and EV exports will lag behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said: I think the 30@30 policy is about right to achieve domestic sales to be 100% EV’s by 2035 which is also their policy, the two policies are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary they are complementary. Thailand accounts for 72% of all EV sales in ASEAN countries, so it’s only to be expected that ICE vehicles will continue to be exported and EV exports will lag behind. I think that wouldn't happen as well as cars Thailand is a major manufacturer of trucks and other commercial vehicles Most countries now have a local content requirement for imports If they don't achieve the 40% local content will be very difficult to export EV's According to a local newspaper, the Thai National Shippers’ Council (TNSC) supports the government’s stance towards a buoyant ICE automotive industry. TNSC chairman Chaichan Chareonsuk said that the value addition of EVs to local manufacturers is only 34%, while for ICE vehicles the value addition of 53%. But, to reach its 30@30 goals, Thailand still has a long way to go. “Based on the current market situation and expected future movements, we believe that the Thai government will most likely miss its 1.123 million zero-emission vehicles target by 2030,” says Hirotaka Uchida, Head of Arthur D. Little Thailand, Automotive and Manufacturing in Southeast Asia Pacific. https://asiafundmanagers.com/us/policy-focus-on-ice-vehicles-to-slowdown-thailands-ev-adoption/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 There is no evidence to suggest Thailand will miss its target of 100% EV sales by 2035. We are 11 years away and we were around 10% last year, I think we will be between 15% and 20% this year. I am very concerned that other countries like UK, EU and the Former Colonies are doing exactly the wrong thing with Chinese EV’s to accelerate EV uptake. I think they will protect their local auto manufacturers who would like nothing more than to back pedal on EV production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 27 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: There is no evidence to suggest Thailand will miss its target of 100% EV sales by 2035. We are 11 years away and we were around 10% last year, I think we will be between 15% and 20% this year. I am very concerned that other countries like UK, EU and the Former Colonies are doing exactly the wrong thing with Chinese EV’s to accelerate EV uptake. I think they will protect their local auto manufacturers who would like nothing more than to back pedal on EV production. it was clearly stated in the article by this guy we believe that the Thai government will most likely miss its 1.123 million zero-emission vehicles target by 2030,” says Hirotaka Uchida, Head of Arthur D. Little Thailand, Automotive and Manufacturing in Southeast Asia Pacific. Normally as a rule Most Government's incurred slippage when they try to enforce a target that the majority of the public are not signed up to Every country adopts measures to protect their own local auto manufacturing base hence any country that wants to export cars to Thailand with the exception of China is subject to import tariffs on between 40-80% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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