Did Anyone Know Trink?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/26/2024 at 3:10 AM, HugoFastor said:

I don't mean to sound critical of her outcome, because that's how real life often turns out; not exactly as one would have planned. But when you write a book about it, the reader kind of expects things to end on a more enlightening note. 

Not so in Asian media, so perhaps that's the appropriate ending.

I don't know how many Kung Fu movies I've watched where everyone dies at the end, but a few, and that trend continues, even in more modern Korean movies. Only Hollywood needs a happy ending

 

For a taste of a really tragic ending watch Oldboy, though that isn't the most gruesome that I've seen by far.

 

https://movieweb.com/korean-movies-with-tragic-endings/

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:41 AM, pub2022 said:

I have always thought that you born in the 40s and 50s are the luckiest generation.

Further confirmations in this thread.

We were. Unfortunately I didn't know that till too late. Born after the war, and into the most prosperous times average westerners will ever know, just in time for the sexual revolution ( the pill ). Easy to get work, no <deleted> like the internet to waste time on. Before PC, before woke, before Vietnam tore the whole thing down and stamped on the pieces. That IMO was the beginning of the end of the dream that Kennedy espoused, a better deal for humanity, a dream turned to <deleted> in Dallas.

IMO since then it's just been a long slow spiral into <deleted>, epitomised by the insane idea that we can be a different gender just because we want to be- madness. Then it's all the other barking sideshows along the way.

I actually pity the youths of today, that will likely never know a world without having their faces glued to a screen.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:41 AM, pub2022 said:

I have always thought that you born in the 40s and 50s are the luckiest generation.

Further confirmations in this thread.

Like the song says "you never know what you've got till it's gone" and for sure the good times are gone baby, gone.

[H1w4yR1da]

On 3/25/2024 at 9:10 PM, HugoFastor said:

I read Odzer's book about 30 years ago. Wasn't overly impressed. A bit disappointed in fact how she came to Bangkok to do one thing for her PhD and ended up hooking up with a local guy instead, having a troubled, whirlwind relationship with him, and not really finishing her thesis in the way she had set out. It started out as a project with an interesting and useful narrative and then ended up as a rather typical Bangkok downward spiral story. I don't mean to sound critical of her outcome, because that's how real life often turns out; not exactly as one would have planned. But when you write a book about it, the reader kind of expects things to end on a more enlightening note. 

Quite typical for loso western women to end up with a Thai guy. You see it on the islands all the time.

[josephbloggs]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

When the poster you quoted comes out with garbage like the below quote, one knows he's full of it, as e mails didn't exist when I was reading Trink's column.

 

I was an avid reader of his column, and there was nothing wrong with it. Anyway, it was more an information column than an opinion piece. I guess some allow their obvious dislike for the farang Bar scene in Thailand to taint their opinion of the man that reported on it.

 

So you say I am full of it because I said he cut and pasted from emails. He did. His column was killed (put out of its misery) in December 2003. I don't know about you but I have been using email since the mid 90's. Would you have preferred me to write "it was cut and pasted rubbish from emails and letters"? Happy to make that change for you.

And I see you're one of those people that attacks those with a different opinion saying I am obviously against the farang bar scene if I don't like Trink. It's like saying if I don't like Thaksin then I must love the military. It is possible to dislike both, just as it is possible to enjoy the bar scene but still think Trink was a poor writer, egotistical, and in his latter years dangerous as he constantly banged on about HIV not being passed on by unprotected sex, therefore condoms with hookers are only necessary if you want to avoid pregnancy or other STDs, but not to worry about HIV.

I can reverse it and say because you loved the bar scene you also loved Trink and can't look at what he wrote objectively, because by any objective measure his writing was abysmal, and like I said, misleading and dangerous.

Talentless creep, nothing more, nothing less.

[n00dle]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:31 PM, josephbloggs said:

Never understood the Trink worship. His column was an abomination, just cut and pasted rubbish from emails, lame jokes, and silly cliches. Even his book reviews were poor. He was a talentless man who somehow made a living from it (kudos to him for that), and I never understood why the Bangkok Post kept him for so long.

But no, never met him.

 

Trink was a man from a bygone era, his time passed. you are not expected to understand looking back. 

Stickman too has become obsolete and culturally irrelevant, the lifestyle they documented no longer exists.

That said they have historical significance

[HugoFastor]

9 hours ago, bangkok19 said:

I only ventured upstairs a few times and from memory it was to eat at the Derby King (?) .. they also did take away orders and delivered them to the nearby bars. Can't remember accessing there from the Foodland carpark though. The stairs were near Vinai's.

Thanks, someone mentioned earlier, it was called Bobby's Arms. 

[HugoFastor]

17 minutes ago, n00dle said:

Stickman too has become obsolete and culturally irrelevant, the lifestyle they documented no longer exists.

Interesting point and makes more sense why Trink's column was eventually shuttered in 2003. Towards the late nineties, that whole segment of the Bangkok nightlife scene, which had existed since the seventies, had perished. A different style of Bangkok nightlife emerged, away from all the go-go bars, the small expat/British style pubs, and the vibrant Patpong late night disco and bar scene was gone too. So the things that Trink covered, and Stickman did for that matter, were basically more of just a memory by the time the year 2000 rolled in. End of an era really. 

[thaibeachlovers]

 

 

10 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

So you say I am full of it because I said he cut and pasted from emails. He did. His column was killed (put out of its misery) in December 2003. I don't know about you but I have been using email since the mid 90's. Would you have preferred me to write "it was cut and pasted rubbish from emails and letters"? Happy to make that change for you.

Are you saying Thailand had e mails since mid 90s? I didn't even see mobile phones back then.

 

You seem to have a personal grudge against Trink to despise him so much. To myself and thousands, he was an informative and interesting source about Bkk night life to read weekly.

 

 

Google is not my friend on finding out when internet became commonplace in Thailand, so the best I can do is this

https://blog.apnic.net/2019/09/04/thseries-mapping-thailands-past-present-and-future-internet/

 

“Back then there were no commercial Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in Thailand. The first [Internet Thailand Company] was established in 1995; it deployed a 512 Kbps leased line to UUNET in the USA.

 

So not exactly commonplace then.

 

Another major change in the history of Thailand’s Internet (noted on the map) happened in 2001 following the passing of the Telecommunications Business Act (B.E. 2544). This made getting a license to operate a telecommunications business a lot easier, as previously ISPs were required to be a joint venture with the Communications Authority of Thailand.

 

Which fits with my memories that internet cafes didn't start in Thailand till this century.

Even in London, the first internet cafe I was able to use was very late last century.

 

If you can provide proof that Trink may have been able to use the internet in the mid 90s and the use of e mails in Thailand was commonplace then, I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

[n00dle]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:05 PM, HugoFastor said:

BTW, yes, there are/were a few other hotels designed like The Miami Hotel in and around Sukhumvit. The Honey Hotel on Suk Soi 19 is the one I think you were referring to. There also used to be The Federal Hotel on Suk Soi 11. There was also one called The Manhattan, but I can't remember where it was. There was The Rex Hotel on Suk, closer to Ekamai. And still very much standing is The Florida Hotel on Phayathai Road and The Atlanta Hotel on Suk Soi 2.
 

Funny thing about the Atlanta is that the sign right in front of the hotel says "Sex Tourists Not Welcome". Kind of hard to imagine they would get anything but. From what I recall, it was always the Nana Hotel overflow crowd.
 

All of these were probably built in the 50s or 60s too. 

 

 

The Atlanta Hotel has a rich history, built in 1952, it has the first swimming pools in Thailand. i had never heard the anti venom story in the wikki. They even had a yacht on the Chaopraya.  The original Art Deco lobby remains unchanged.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlanta_Hotel_(Bangkok)#:~:text=History&text=The first owner of The,Company to manufacture snakebite antivenom.

The family is an odd one, after being something of a haven for drug smugglers in the 70s, things took a very moralistic  turn. Even today, while they have lightened up they is still a chance you will be turned away or asked to leave the premises, if they don't like the way you look.

 

I haven't eaten in the restraunt since before COVID but one page of the meu used to (and still may)  says this:

 

Quote

The Atlanta is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.
The Atlanta does not hesitate to refuse rooms to  persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Atlanta.
The Atlanta does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.
Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.
Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.
Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.
Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.
The Atlanta does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.
The Atlanta also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.
To keep The Atlanta private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome,
room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the bulding and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.
Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management’s discretion.
Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.
The Atlanta operates a  ”ZERO TOLERANCE “ policy regarding
    * TROUBLE-MAKERS,
    * POSSESSORS  AND  USERS  OF  ILLICIT DRUGS  and
    * ALL   OTHER  ILLEGAL  AND   NEFARIOUS   ACTIVITIES
‘Zero tolerance’ means that the police are called without advance warning to the miscreant, without hesitation and without apology.
Visitors who object to any of The Atlanta’s policies or  who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring and indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The Atlanta is not that kind of place.
Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people’s country:  those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.
On these policies, The Atlanta is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls
‘customer feedback’.
The Atlanta caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.
No discussion. No compromise.

The clientele is very specific, return visitors, NGO's anyone seeking oasis in the area. The rooms are plain and the pool has seen better days but it is still remarkable.

Sadly the woman who ran the coffee shop passed last year and with her went some of the most wonderful inexpensive Thai food in the area. I used to eat there often, others tried but were unsuccessful.

I have several friends who begin and end their stay in Bangkok at the Atlanta and have been doing so for years. i always take time to spend a day by the pool when they do. 

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

Are you saying Thailand had e mails since mid 90s? I didn't even see mobile phones back then.

 

You seem to have a personal grudge against Trink to despise him so much. To myself and thousands, he was an informative and interesting source about Bkk night life to read weekly.

 

 

Google is not my friend on finding out when internet became commonplace in Thailand, so the best I can do is this

https://blog.apnic.net/2019/09/04/thseries-mapping-thailands-past-present-and-future-internet/

 

“Back then there were no commercial Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in Thailand. The first [Internet Thailand Company] was established in 1995; it deployed a 512 Kbps leased line to UUNET in the USA.

 

So not exactly commonplace then.

 

Another major change in the history of Thailand’s Internet (noted on the map) happened in 2001 following the passing of the Telecommunications Business Act (B.E. 2544). This made getting a license to operate a telecommunications business a lot easier, as previously ISPs were required to be a joint venture with the Communications Authority of Thailand.

 

Which fits with my memories that internet cafes didn't start in Thailand till this century.

Even in London, the first internet cafe I was able to use was very late last century.

 

If you can provide proof that Trink may have been able to use the internet in the mid 90s and the use of e mails in Thailand was commonplace then, I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

Jeez, give it up. Why are you fixating on the email thing? It was one word in several paragraphs I write about it and that's what you pounce on and want to keep wibbling on about. His column was full of cut and pasted nonsense, it doesn't matter whether it was emails, letters, telegrams or carrier pigeons, it is irrelevant!

I remember signing up for my first email account (Yahoo) at work at a Thai company I worked at from 1995 to 1998, I don't remember the exact date for some weird reason, but like I said (many times) it is irrelevant to the point I was making. Can you let go of your fixation now?

 

[n00dle]

On 3/26/2024 at 6:18 AM, beautifulthailand99 said:

It was quite a place.

It is quite a place.

[n00dle]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:43 AM, ballpoint said:

And not to forget the Golden Palace, on Sukhumvit 1

Loved the Mercedes emblem embellishments in the wall out front

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

Interesting point and makes more sense why Trink's column was eventually shuttered in 2003. Towards the late nineties, that whole segment of the Bangkok nightlife scene, which had existed since the seventies, had perished. A different style of Bangkok nightlife emerged, away from all the go-go bars, the small expat/British style pubs, and the vibrant Patpong late night disco and bar scene was gone too. So the things that Trink covered, and Stickman did for that matter, were basically more of just a memory by the time the year 2000 rolled in. End of an era really. 

I have to fundamentally disagree. From the early 90s till well into this century the farang scene in Bkk, which was basically Patpong, Nana, and Cowboy, remained basically the same. Purachai had a major impact during thaksin's diabolical period as PM, but it did come back, even if not as vibrant as previously.

Early closing also made a huge difference as the scene in Nana after closing moved into Sukhumvit where small businesses soon moved in to provide pavement tables and drinks. Nana itself carried on much as always.

 

I can't speak for Patpong this century as I no longer went there due to the vile night market, and many of the Gogos were gone and replaced by bag shops.

Cowboy, which I did visit occasionally remained much the same, except for Tilac, which was my first hang out and the source of my first long time Thai GF, went horribly flashy and unpleasant.

 

IMO the most drastic change has come from the internet which means the better girls no longer have to rotate around a chrome pole for some hours, in hope of being rented out.

 

I prefer to think that Trink was woked out of his job. Had he just been simply retired as no longer relevant, they would at the least have given him a decent send off, which they didn't. New brooms and all that.

[n00dle]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:43 AM, ballpoint said:

BTW, yes, there are/were a few other hotels designed like The Miami Hotel in and around Sukhumvit. The Honey Hotel on Suk Soi 19 is the one I think you were referring to. There also used to be The Federal Hotel on Suk Soi 11. There was also one called The Manhattan, but I can't remember where it was. There was The Rex Hotel on Suk, closer to Ekamai. And still very much standing is The Florida Hotel on Phayathai Road and The Atlanta Hotel on Suk Soi 2.

 

 

These were all RR hotels bullt for the Ameican forces with a pool in the courtyard and a coffee shop. The Atlanta precedes them all by at least a decade, often 2. 

[n00dle]

25 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

Interesting point and makes more sense why Trink's column was eventually shuttered in 2003. Towards the late nineties, that whole segment of the Bangkok nightlife scene, which had existed since the seventies, had perished. A different style of Bangkok nightlife emerged, away from all the go-go bars, the small expat/British style pubs, and the vibrant Patpong late night disco and bar scene was gone too. So the things that Trink covered, and Stickman did for that matter, were basically more of just a memory by the time the year 2000 rolled in. End of an era really. 

When I arrived in 1996 Trink was a curiosity among younger expats. By 2000 the internet was readily available hence the rise of Stickman, the "bar" scene had given way to clubbing and a druggy freelance after hours scene.

what fun it was    

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Jeez, give it up. Why are you fixating on the email thing? It was one word in several paragraphs I write about it and that's what you pounce on and want to keep wibbling on about. His column was full of cut and pasted nonsense, it doesn't matter whether it was emails, letters, telegrams or carrier pigeons, it is irrelevant!

I remember signing up for my first email account (Yahoo) at work at a Thai company I worked at from 1995 to 1998, I don't remember the exact date for some weird reason, but like I said (many times) it is irrelevant to the point I was making. Can you let go of your fixation now?

 

Nonsense in YOUR opinion. Thousands enjoyed his column, so why do you persist in trying to bring him down? Did he insult you personally or something?

Why can't you just let posters that enjoyed his contribution to our lives celebrate his column? Why do you have to be so nasty about him. You didn't like his column, OK, can't you leave the thread be and not come on just to be a wet blanket.

 

Bye.

[HugoFastor]

10 minutes ago, n00dle said:

 

 

These were all RR hotels bullt for the Ameican forces with a pool in the courtyard and a coffee shop. The Atlanta precedes them all by at least a decade, often 2. 

My memory is a bit foggy, but I think there were even a few more hotels in this genre: The Tai-Pan, The Asia (Soi Ngam Duphli I think), The White Orchid, and I think there was also one on Petchaburi Road close to the Sukhumvit Soi 3 intersection, but the name of that one evades me now. Maybe someone else with a better memory can help to fill in the blanks and correct any errors I made. 
 

In one of my previous posts, I also accidentally referred to the Atlanta as the Atlantic. Was there also one called The Atlantic somewhere too?

[HugoFastor]

12 minutes ago, n00dle said:

When I arrived in 1996 Trink was a curiosity among younger expats. By 2000 the internet was readily available hence the rise of Stickman, the "bar" scene had given way to clubbing and a druggy freelance after hours scene.

what fun it was    

Yes, by 2000, the whole scene changed. Patpong started entering into the death throes era. Cowboy and Nana had become cliched and more frequented by Japanese tourists. The club scene in Suk Soi 11 had emerged. Thermae had also become something mainly for the Japanese. Bossy and Spicy out by National Stadium area became the new after hours replacements for expats. And fewer and fewer local expats, the ones who weren't regional expat tourists, had abandoned most of the old haunts. 

[beautifulthailand99]

Washington Square staggered on well into the 2000s before all being demolished, I used to visit the US rib joint there quite regularly that was very good and there was Soi Zero under the toll way and another small area long since gone whose name I forget.

[n00dle]

30 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

The club scene in Suk Soi 11 had emerged.

i have rented the same house on 11 for nearly 20 years. The changes make the mind reel. The 2000's were a hell of an era. 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Washington Square staggered on well into the 2000s before all being demolished, I used to visit the US rib joint there quite regularly that was very good and there was Soi Zero under the toll way and another small area long since gone whose name I forget.

I was fortunate enough to visit both before they ceased to be. Can't say I was impressed by either though, but I guess they had their regular clientele.

 

Did anyone try one of the No Hands restaurants? I never did get the hang of them, and never knew if I was supposed to get more than food or not- I didn't, but perhaps I didn't know the secret password or something. I only tried twice and gave up on them. It was early days and I didn't speak any Thai and they didn't speak any English.

[thaibeachlovers]

42 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

Yes, by 2000, the whole scene changed. Patpong started entering into the death throes era. Cowboy and Nana had become cliched and more frequented by Japanese tourists. The club scene in Suk Soi 11 had emerged. Thermae had also become something mainly for the Japanese. Bossy and Spicy out by National Stadium area became the new after hours replacements for expats. And fewer and fewer local expats, the ones who weren't regional expat tourists, had abandoned most of the old haunts. 

One wonders if the Bkk places are headed for the same fate as the world famous Bugis street in Singapore? During LKY's puritanical era where he sanitised Singapore it got shut down, apparently became derelict and eventually reincarnated as a shopping/ restaurant street, like a thousand others. All that remains of it's fame is the name.

 

Perhaps Patpong will become the hub of bag shops, Nana will be three levels of restaurants and bars, and Cowboy- well who knows? It'd be nice if they preserved it as a museum of when Bkk was actually interesting, and not the hub of shopping malls. Perhaps they could build a replica of one of the R and R hotels as well. It'd be popular with us old guys for sure.

 

Does anyone remember the Carlton Hotel, just around the corner from Cowboy? I had my first lesson in Thai customs when the waiter brought a jug of water that had suspicious things floating around in it, but my GF to be wouldn't let me complain. We just didn't drink it.

[HugoFastor]

20 minutes ago, n00dle said:

i have rented the same house on 11 for nearly 20 years. The changes make the mind reel. The 2000's were a hell of an era. 

A house on Soi 11? Still to this day? Don't recall ever seeing one. 30 years ago a friend of mine used to stay there at the Grand President in a serviced apartment. I would go down there to meet him. Wasn't much on that Soi back then in the way of restaurants or bars. Only a few. There was mainly an Italian place I think and The Federal Hotel coffee shop. Living there now must be a wasteland of noise at night though. 

[geisha]

1 hour ago, n00dle said:

 

The Atlanta Hotel has a rich history, built in 1952, it has the first swimming pools in Thailand. i had never heard the anti venom story in the wikki. They even had a yacht on the Chaopraya.  The original Art Deco lobby remains unchanged.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlanta_Hotel_(Bangkok)#:~:text=History&text=The first owner of The,Company to manufacture snakebite antivenom.

The family is an odd one, after being something of a haven for drug smugglers in the 70s, things took a very moralistic  turn. Even today, while they have lightened up they is still a chance you will be turned away or asked to leave the premises, if they don't like the way you look.

 

I haven't eaten in the restraunt since before COVID but one page of the meu used to (and still may)  says this:

 

The clientele is very specific, return visitors, NGO's anyone seeking oasis in the area. The rooms are plain and the pool has seen better days but it is still remarkable.

Sadly the woman who ran the coffee shop passed last year and with her went some of the most wonderful inexpensive Thai food in the area. I used to eat there often, others tried but were unsuccessful.

I have several friends who begin and end their stay in Bangkok at the Atlanta and have been doing so for years. i always take time to spend a day by the pool when they do. 

The Atlanta was my hotel for my first visits to Bangkok. I was younger and felt safe there. Fantastic building, 1 st pool in Bangko I think ?  Loved the map room, the restaurant was fantastic, some of the best authentic Thai food I ever had. Lots of journalists  stayed there and I met really interesting characters. Later in my professional life, I based my restaurant menus on the Atlanta ones. I still have the cut outs and the menus which I copied by hand. Still have them. My menus are still going strong today although I retired a few years ago and sold up after 35 years , So the Atlanta menu lives on. 

[HugoFastor]

34 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Washington Square staggered on well into the 2000s before all being demolished, I used to visit the US rib joint there quite regularly that was very good and there was Soi Zero under the toll way and another small area long since gone whose name I forget.

I stayed not far from WS at that time. There were some good places around the area to eat. An excellent Thai restaurant on Soi 22 around the corner called Rahn Derm. Also a northern Thai place a few shops down from it called Ging Glao. And then you had that New Orleans place, which was popular, I think I went once and wasn't particularly overwhelmed. The WS movie theatre was a good value though. Saw a number of films there, before it turned into a cabaret show venue. All the beer bars in there looked pretty tired though. Never ventured into to any of them. There were many better options at the time. 

[HugoFastor]

Someone mentioned cell phones earlier, I remember the company I was working for gave me a cell phone to use in 1996. That was my first one in Bangkok. They had been around for at least 5-6 years already at that time I think. We also had internet and email access already in 96'

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

I stayed not far from WS at that time. There were some good places around the area to eat. An excellent Thai restaurant on Soi 22 around the corner called Rahn Derm. Also a northern Thai place a few shops down from it called Ging Glao. And then you had that New Orleans place, which was popular, I think I went once and wasn't particularly overwhelmed. The WS movie theatre was a good value though. Saw a number of films there, before it turned into a cabaret show venue. All the beer bars in there looked pretty tired though. Never ventured into to any of them. There were many better options at the time. 

I stayed for many years in Som's Guest House in Soi 22 run by the excellent Som and her alcie husband who was the fount of all knowledge. Som had a couple of bars on the Soi and BA staff would hang out there when on layover.

[beautifulthailand99]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was fortunate enough to visit both before they ceased to be. Can't say I was impressed by either though, but I guess they had their regular clientele.

 

Did anyone try one of the No Hands restaurants? I never did get the hang of them, and never knew if I was supposed to get more than food or not- I didn't, but perhaps I didn't know the secret password or something. I only tried twice and gave up on them. It was early days and I didn't speak any Thai and they didn't speak any English.

That was legendary, but I never went but was on my list of things to do that I never did !

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

That was legendary, but I never went but was on my list of things to do that I never did !

I was left feeling ripped off, so unless you spoke perfect Thai then I don't think you missed anything.

First time left me puzzled, and on the second visit they managed to make me really angry before I even started the meal, which didn't make for a nice time. That one did speak a bit of English so I was able to explain why I was so angry. Nice girl, bad experience. I don't remember, but I probably gave her a tip for putting up with an angry farang and being nice.