LTR Health Insurance : Self-insurance with US$100,000 Bank Deposit

[HerewardtheWake]

Background: I had an O-A visa for which I had the required health insurance. I used the same policy for meeting the LTR visa requirement in 2023 April. The Pacific Cross insurance expensive (at over 100,000 Baht premium) and  is useless because it has a 300,000 Baht deductible. I would like to use the self-insurance route of having a US$100,000 bank deposit. I have been trying in vain to contact LTR visa service in Bangkok. A written message to them gave me a an irrelevant canned answer without addressing my question. Phone calls get me a response to contact by email.

 

How does one go about getting LTR approval of the self-insurance? I got an account  Balance Letter  from my Charles Schwab bank and attached it as a file to my profile on the LTR website, but got no acknowledgment from LTR. 

 

Would it be better to make a visit to the LTR office  in Bangkok? Does one need an appointment? Would a Balance Letter be sufficient to meet the LTR requirement? 

 

If anybody has had any experience with this, please comment.

[FritsSikkink]

"You must have a health insurance policy covering medical expenses of no less than 50,000 USD. The remaining coverage period on the policy shall not be less than 10 months on the date of application. Or you can provide evidence of savings of at least 100,000 USD held in a Thai bank account or overseas bank account for no less than 12 months before the date of application."

[HerewardtheWake]

Frits, thank you. Yes, I am aware of the requirements, but I am trying to find out how to register the

US100,000 deposit with the LTR organization, so that I can cancel my Pacific Cross health insurance. 

[Misty]

8 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Background: I had an O-A visa for which I had the required health insurance. I used the same policy for meeting the LTR visa requirement in 2023 April. The Pacific Cross insurance expensive (at over 100,000 Baht premium) and  is useless because it has a 300,000 Baht deductible. I would like to use the self-insurance route of having a US$100,000 bank deposit. I have been trying in vain to contact LTR visa service in Bangkok. A written message to them gave me a an irrelevant canned answer without addressing my question. Phone calls get me a response to contact by email.

 

How does one go about getting LTR approval of the self-insurance? I got an account  Balance Letter  from my Charles Schwab bank and attached it as a file to my profile on the LTR website, but got no acknowledgment from LTR. 

 

Would it be better to make a visit to the LTR office  in Bangkok? Does one need an appointment? Would a Balance Letter be sufficient to meet the LTR requirement? 

 

If anybody has had any experience with this, please comment.

 

I've found going to the LTR office in Bangkok to be the best way to get answers to questions when I couldn't get answers by phone or email.

 

From others posting in this thread - make sure the bank account balance is with Charles Schwab Bank, and not Charles Schwab Brokerage.  Apparently the LTR unit no longer accepts brokerage accounts for the self insurance requirement.

 

If you do find you need to purchase an insurance policy, check out LMG Insurance - you may find their long stay visa plus policy with a high deductible to be better priced than the one you have:   https://www.lmginsurance.co.th/en/long-stay-visa-plus-premium-plan-100000-usd

 

 

[Thailand J]

 

This is what I got from AXA in November 2023. Their Easycare Visa Plan.

Plan 1 : 2MB per disability.  Plan 2 :4MB per disability. Plan 1 is enough for LTR visa.

 

 

 

[Tom100]

I am in similar situation. Pacific Cross Insurance has proven to be a waste of money and bureaucratic mess so the 100k route now looks better.

I think that you have to visit the Bangkok LTR office to settle this as emails may not be answered. Being in the office forces a decision to be made. 

LTR VISA UNIT

Expatriate Services Division One Stop Service Center for Visa and Work Permit (OSS)
18^th floor, Chamchuri Square Building (MRT Sam Yan Station)
Phayathai Road, Pathumwan Bangkok 10330
Email : ltr[at]boi.go.th
Tel : +66(0) 2209 1100 ext. 1008,1109

 

[Tom100]

18 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Frits, thank you. Yes, I am aware of the requirements, but I am trying to find out how to register the

US100,000 deposit with the LTR organization, so that I can cancel my Pacific Cross health insurance. 

To get my LTR, the BOI asked for 12 consecutive months of financial statements submitted in one PDF. I downloaded 12 PDFs and joined them into one doc. One monthly statement was not enough in 1/2023. 

[Tom100]

I initially showed BOI an investment account holding $100k but they rejected that saying money must be in a BANK account...and they wanted 12 months of BANK statements with $100k which I did not have...so I was forced to buy insurance.

 

Leaving money in a US BANK account is expensive because the interest rates are low. Schwab banking pays only 0.48 annual interest on deposits but you can earn about 5% on a 1-year US T-bill from Schwab investing...so the difference in interest is about $4500 USD per year. Therefore, rather than earn 0.48 in a Bank account, it may be cheaper to buy the minimum Thai insurance and be prepared to pay cash for most medical services. 

 

Your experience and best choice will vary based on your current/expected insurance premiums and your pre-existing conditions for which you get no insurance coverage.

[HerewardtheWake]

Tom, Misty, Thailand, thank you for such useful replies and information. You have addressed my questions precisely. I will talk with my insurance agent and see if I can lower my premium, albeit for another useless deductible schedule. US$100,000 will generate interest slightly exceeding the policy premium, so Tom's idea is very relevant. 

[JimGant]

Just a reminder, in the unlikely event you're not aware -- Tricare, and other similar gov't health policies, *are* acceptable for an LTR visa. I had to get one of those throwaway polices from LMG for my OA visa, as Tricare wasn't, of course, one of the 12 acceptable Thai health policies. Thus, one more nice feature of an LTR visa.

[JackGats]

My understanding was that you had to show a balance of over 100k for the last 12 months. Monthly bank statements or a yearly breakdown if you are lucky enough to have a bank supplying such a yearly summary.

 

Worst-case is if your bank only issues monthly statements in another language than English. Then you're in for substantial translation costs.

[Tom100]

1 hour ago, HerewardtheWake said:

I will talk with my insurance agent and see if I can lower my premium, albeit for another useless deductible schedule. 

I contacted Pacific Cross Thailand directly to ask if I could buy an annual policy with only the LTR required coverage of $50,000. They said "no", I must buy a policy with minimum 3 million baht coverage...because that was what they offer foreigners (the policy is called "New Normal Lifestyle Series"). The agent readily admitted that this was in excess of BOI/LTR requirements and said there was some internal consideration of a policy to meet the legal requirement. 

 

I have paid Pacific Cross 2 years of premiums and they have still not paid for my only small claim I made months ago. First they claimed the forms were never received which was proven false. Then they asked for more paperwork and yet another copy of my passport. I have given them 3 signed copies of passport already this year. What BS!

 

[MPoll]

2 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Tom, Misty, Thailand, thank you for such useful replies and information. You have addressed my questions precisely. I will talk with my insurance agent and see if I can lower my premium, albeit for another useless deductible schedule. US$100,000 will generate interest slightly exceeding the policy premium, so Tom's idea is very relevant. 

I have Pacific Cross with a 40,000 baht deductible. I’ve had PC for six years. During that time I haven’t made a claim and I am getting about a 20,000 baht no claim discount. Whatever your deductible, it you are not making claims then you can get a break on the cost.

 

Just because I haven’t made a claim I don’t consider my PC insurance to be useless. I have it for a catastrophic health event, the most likely and obvious would be a vehicle accident but it could be any number of other types of illnesses and injuries. I just had a case of Dengue fever. I was lucky it wasn’t serious but I was happy to have the insurance it it had because serious.

[oldcpu]

For the OP, with regards to the $100K US$ equivalent in the bank for self health insurance, that was the approach that I adopted for the LTR self health insurance (even thou I have excellent health insurance from European Cigna).

 

Initially I provided BoI proof exceeding the the $100K US$ cash equivalent for 1 year (in Cdn$ trading account) and BoI ejected that.  I then provided proof exceeding the the $100K US$ cash equivalent in a Canadian 'Registered Retirement Savings Plan' (RRSP) (similar conceptually to a USA 401k) but since my RRSP was 'self directed' (and being 'self directed' it allowed me to trade equities with the account) that was also rejected (even thou its called a 'savings account' and even thou it is registered in Canada). 

 

In the end I pointed to $100K US$ cash equivalent in a Foreign Currency account (Euros) in a Thai bank (Krungsri), that had just recently exceeded the being present of 1-year requirement and that was accepted. 

 

For the Krungsri, I went to the bank in person, and they provided me a bank statement with an accompanying letter stating the money had been in their bank for > 1 year.

 

The above took a few iterations with BoI (pointing to account after account), but for a LTR-WP (where the WP supposedly means wealthy) I don't consider the above too onerous.  I guess it all boils down to one's definition of 'wealthy'. 

 

I could have done all this much quicker if I had adopted a different approach (providing more detail on all of my financial status) but I preferred then (and still prefer now) not to provide more detail to BoI than needed.  That attitude of mine likely dragged things out much more than necessary.

[Pib]

10 hours ago, Tom100 said:

To get my LTR, the BOI asked for 12 consecutive months of financial statements submitted in one PDF. I downloaded 12 PDFs and joined them into one doc. One monthly statement was not enough in 1/2023. 

Just to ditto Tom100's post above.  To self-insure for a LTR visa BOI is now looking for $100K equivalent in a bank acct for 12 months...proven by providing account statements for that 12 months period.  The great, great majority of bank/financial firms provide a monthly statement although a few might only provide a quarterly statement.     And acct statements are usually available right online going back at least a year....actually usually for years.

 

 

[mudcat]

I did manage in October 2022 to get BOI to accept my Roth IRA which was well in excess of the $100,000 requirement.  I plan on re-submitting this account upon renewal and seeing if they accept it as it is part of my estate planning portfolio and does not get touched.  I did make a point of pointing by including a plan description out that a Roth IRA is a liquid account with no taxes due or early withdrawal penalties.  My brokerage statement includes a 3-year look back chart on the first page of the statement which may have convinced them the money was available had been available over time.  

 

I also have a Pacific Cross policy that qualifies, but given the uncertainty of being able to maintain that policy should I ever cost Pacific Cross real money I would prefer to have BOI accept real assets rather than a marketing promises on a Thai Insurance company brochure.

 

 

 

[kimothai]

On 3/27/2024 at 11:52 AM, JimGant said:

Just a reminder, in the unlikely event you're not aware -- Tricare, and other similar gov't health policies, *are* acceptable for an LTR visa. I had to get one of those throwaway polices from LMG for my OA visa, as Tricare wasn't, of course, one of the 12 acceptable Thai health policies. Thus, one more nice feature of an LTR visa.

I was in the same boat with OA visa and BlueCross and having to use Pacific Cross.  It gave me a great sense of pleasure to cancel the expensive Pacific Cross that I never used for 3 years and get a partial refund.  Not to mention not have to deal with the silly 90 day report or bank reporting.  LTR was like a breath of fresh air.

[FinePoint]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:04 PM, mudcat said:

I did manage in October 2022 to get BOI to accept my Roth IRA which was well in excess of the $100,000 requirement.  I plan on re-submitting this account upon renewal and seeing if they accept it as it is part of my estate planning portfolio and does not get touched.  I did make a point of pointing by including a plan description out that a Roth IRA is a liquid account with no taxes due or early withdrawal penalties.  My brokerage statement includes a 3-year look back chart on the first page of the statement which may have convinced them the money was available had been available over time.  

 

I also have a Pacific Cross policy that qualifies, but given the uncertainty of being able to maintain that policy should I ever cost Pacific Cross real money I would prefer to have BOI accept real assets rather than a marketing promises on a Thai Insurance company brochure.

 

 

 

Hello Mudcat, I'm in the same boat -- hoping BOI will accept my Roth or other IRA money-market funds to meet the self-insurance requirement of maintaining at least US$100,000 in a U.S. (bank) account. Would you mind letting us know whether you've had any further dealings with BOI about this? As far as you may know, is BOI now accepting Roth and IRA funds to meet the self-insurance test provided 12 months of consecutive statements documenting the minimum $100K?  

[mudcat]

I have not had any contact with BOI about accepting a Roth IRA balance for the $100,000 substitute for a "Bank" balance in lieu of a foreign or Thai health insurance policy and do not plan on raising the issue with them until my recertification in three-years.  I continue to maintain a Thai health insurance policy as fallback, but given the nature of Thai insurance companies, the 25% discount for a 40K ThB deductible and a 3-year no claim discount  keep the policy affordable (to me) so it can serve as a major medical policy.

 

As mentioned before, my Roth statements have a three-year look back chart on the first page and every December statement shows there have been no distributions or contributions in that calendar year under "Retirement Contribution and Distribution Summary" or something similar demonstrating that increases and decreases in the balance are the result of market movement and not me drawing down my balance, and as a retiree, I cannot contribute to it, so it is a lump of money that earns returns (or absorbs losses) under my brokerages 'private client' advisor scheme.    I am fortunate in that between my Social Security benefit (direct deposited here) and my government pension paid into my U.S. checking account, I have not needed to withdraw from my Roth IRA

 

The Roth serves as the principal asset I will be leaving to my wife if I pre-decease her or split between two educational institutions (a daycare center I taught at in the 1970s and the graduate school I attended in the 1990s) should she pre-decease me.   

[Pib]

On 10/6/2024 at 4:28 AM, FinePoint said:

Hello Mudcat, I'm in the same boat -- hoping BOI will accept my Roth or other IRA money-market funds to meet the self-insurance requirement of maintaining at least US$100,000 in a U.S. (bank) account. Would you mind letting us know whether you've had any further dealings with BOI about this? As far as you may know, is BOI now accepting Roth and IRA funds to meet the self-insurance test provided 12 months of consecutive statements documenting the minimum $100K?  

Unless something has changed BOI did accept "investment" type funds such is IRA type funds during the first 3 months or so of the LTR program to meet the $100K self-insure requirement....this was back in the Sep-Nov 2022 timeframe as the LTR program began accepting application 1 Sep 2022.   Then around Dec 2022 BOI  did a flip-flop and applicants who tried to use "investment" type funds to self-insure were being rejected based on posts in this and related LTR threads....BOI started requiring the $100K to be in a regular type savings/checking bank account vs stocks.

 

And Certificate of Investment (CD) type investment typically offered by banks was acceptable if a "monthly" statement for the past 12 months can be provided. I asked BOI about using a CD in mid 2023 and below is a partial quote of their answer.

 

Quote

Based on the information provided, if the retained amount in the bank account is more than 100,000 USD for the past 12 months, it is possible for the document to be accepted as evidence. However, it is important to note that you will need to provide the required documentation for each month within the 12-month period. This means providing bank statements or other relevant documents that clearly show the balance and transaction activity for each month.

 

[oldcpu]

Deleted post (mostly duplicate of previous post) - see above

[Thailand J]

I just got a renewal notice from AXA. My insurance  with 300k deductible is practically useless other then for LTR visa requirement. Premium has increased about 2000B to 19000B, that is only a negligible fraction, 0.6% of $100k.

 

Not only that I can invest the $100k in stocks, I also moved my 800,000B non-o retirement visa deposit into stocks. S&P500 is up double digit year to date.

With insurance, paperwork is also very simple.

 

[JohnnyBD]

3 hours ago, Thailand J said:

Not only that I can invest the $100k in stocks, I also moved my 800,000B non-o retirement visa deposit into stocks. S&P500 is up double digit year to date.

With insurance, paperwork is also very simple.

Good move. I also bought AXA insurance for my LTR visa instead of going the $100k in bank route. Do you keep 100% of your available monies in the stock market, or do you keep some in fixed income? Everyone's situation is different. Some people like to keep different asset allocations (example; 90/10%, 80/20%, etc. stocks/fixed income) due to their risk tolerance or individual situation. So, for those who like to keep some of their money in fixed income anyway, going the $100k in bank route makes a lot of sense. Capital One bank is currently paying 4.10% on their high yield savings, Chase Bank was paying 4.40% on theirs, and one can still get short-term CDs for 4.50%.

[Thailand J]

I have stocks and very little cash. I had bond holdings until 11 year ago when sold them and invested the money into BRK/B at about $104 per share. Today BRK/B is about $450 per share.

I was going to sell BRK/B whenever I needed cash but I have been selling other stocks with less capital gain to minimize tax.

 

[FinePoint]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:46 PM, Pib said:

Unless something has changed BOI did accept "investment" type funds such is IRA type funds during the first 3 months or so of the LTR program to meet the $100K self-insure requirement....this was back in the Sep-Nov 2022 timeframe as the LTR program began accepting application 1 Sep 2022.   Then around Dec 2022 BOI  did a flip-flop and applicants who tried to use "investment" type funds to self-insure were being rejected based on posts in this and related LTR threads....BOI started requiring the $100K to be in a regular type savings/checking bank account vs stocks.

 

And Certificate of Investment (CD) type investment typically offered by banks was acceptable if a "monthly" statement for the past 12 months can be provided. I asked BOI about using a CD in mid 2023 and below is a partial quote of their answer.

 

 

Thanks for your reply, Mudcat. I'm glad to hear BOI may be willing, conditionally, to accept CD's and presumably, money market funds, to meet the self-insurance test. Or so it seems to me based on the snippet of their reply to your query. If so, the BOI will have proven itself reasonable and praiseworthy for avoiding a senseless hurdle to the LTR visa.   

[Middle Aged Grouch]

For 50 bucks you get a hassle free 3 month tourist visa to Vietnam, with no hassles compared to all the fuss on the LTR.

 

Many retirees from the west who look for a winter stay in Asia, come to Thailand who only gives 2 months visa waiver then apply for the 3 month hassle free, multi entry visa to Vietnam. Far better then going through all the hassle Thailand loves to make on foreigners. No problem. well will spend the money in Vietnam.

[oldcpu]

21 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

For 50 bucks you get a hassle free 3 month tourist visa to Vietnam, with no hassles compared to all the fuss on the LTR.

 

Many retirees from the west who look for a winter stay in Asia, come to Thailand who only gives 2 months visa waiver then apply for the 3 month hassle free, multi entry visa to Vietnam. Far better then going through all the hassle Thailand loves to make on foreigners. No problem. well will spend the money in Vietnam.

 

$50 for 3 months ONLY from Vietnam ??? That's crap !!    The LTR is good for 10 years and one is not restricted to 3 months.

 

Further, a GREAT thing about Thailand is there are many different Visas.  Why pay $50 for 3 months in Vietnam, when one can enter Thailand visa exempt for 60-days, and then apply for a 30-day extension and get 90-days (ie 3 months) and not have to pay $50. Clearly Thailand' options there are FAR superior.  Not to mention other aspects of Thailand are superior (for example, the superior quality of Thailand's hospital system comes to mind).

 

Frankly?  You can have Vietnam.  I MUCH prefer Thailand and not just because of Thailand's superior Visa options.