Condo transfer thai to husband

[Robert Paulson]

Does one have to transfer all the money etc to Thailand to transfer a condo from a thai to a foreigner she is married to? Or would the transfer be easier than that?

[Mike Lister]

Your post is difficult to interpret as to what you're really asking. If a foreigner wants to buy a condo, it must be in the foreign quota and all the funds used to buy it must be remitted from overseas. If a person is married to a Thai who owns a condo, any transfer will depend on the foreign quota aspect. 

[Peterw42]

48 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Does one have to transfer all the money etc to Thailand to transfer a condo from a thai to a foreigner she is married to? Or would the transfer be easier than that?

The normal requirements still apply, to buy a condo in foreign quota, the equivalent money has to come from outside Thailand.

The foreigner can use any money that has been bought into Thailand to obtain an fet to show the bank. (money to buy a car etc)

[john donson]

i was in contact with a lawyer that claimed they knew a sort of agent that could make the bank paper the money came from overseas, even it did not... 8000 baht per million...

[Robert Paulson]

9 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Your post is difficult to interpret as to what you're really asking. If a foreigner wants to buy a condo, it must be in the foreign quota and all the funds used to buy it must be remitted from overseas. If a person is married to a Thai who owns a condo, any transfer will depend on the foreign quota aspect. 

What if the Thai wife wants to give the condo to the foreign husband. Was it unlcear? 

[Robert Paulson]

9 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The normal requirements still apply, to buy a condo in foreign quota, the equivalent money has to come from outside Thailand.

The foreigner can use any money that has been bought into Thailand to obtain an fet to show the bank. (money to buy a car etc)

so if someone wants to gift the condo what would be the price needed for remittance money of a condo being transferred for zero baht? 

Edited May 4 by Robert Paulson

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

What if the Thai wife wants to give the condo to the foreign husband. Was it unlcear? 

The issue of foreign quota still prevails, if there is no foreign quota available, ownership of the condo can't happen using any means.

 

 

 

[Robert Paulson]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

The issue of foreign quota still prevails, if there is no foreign quota available, ownership of the condo can't happen using any means.

 

 

 

Ok so let’s assume there is foreign quota available. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

Ok so let’s assume there is foreign quota available. 

Presumably the Thai wife could use Gift Tax to gift ownership of the condo, to the husband, but then there's the issue of conjugal property under the marriage laws which is where it gets messy. You'd need to pose the question to a Thai CPA to get closer to the 100% correct answer.

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Presumably the Thai wife could use Gift Tax to gift ownership of the condo, to the husband, but then there's the issue of conjugal property under the marriage laws which is where it gets messy. You'd need to pose the question to a Thai CPA to get closer to the 100% correct answer.

Can you explain about this gift tax and how it would work in a condo transfer?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Can you explain about this gift tax and how it would work in a condo transfer?

 

[Peterw42]

15 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

so if someone wants to gift the condo what would be the price needed for remittance money of a condo being transferred for zero baht? 

The full amount would still need to be remitted. Otherwise everyone would simply call any purchase a gift and avoid the requirements. 

The land office would see it as a normal transaction and still want to see foreign funds, and they would still charge transfer fees taxes etc.

Edited May 4 by Peterw42

[Robert Paulson]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The full amount would still need to be remitted. Otherwise everyone would simply call any purchase a gift and avoid the requirements. 

The land office would see it as a normal transaction and still want to see foreign funds, and they would still charge transfer fees taxes etc.

Well no, not everyone could gift it like I’m talking about above because it’s a spouse. But I agree I’m sure what you’re saying is correct but not everyone could just haul off and gift properties. 

[Mike Lister]

25 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Well no, not everyone could gift it like I’m talking about above because it’s a spouse. But I agree I’m sure what you’re saying is correct but not everyone could just haul off and gift properties. 

I don't believe a Thai can effectively gift any type of property to a non-Thai, even inheritance of property requires the foreigner sell it within one year. 

[RobertJNerder]

14 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I don't believe a Thai can effectively gift any type of property to a non-Thai, even inheritance of property requires the foreigner sell it within one year. 

But why not, should foreign quota be available on a condo (as per OP's assumption)?

 

It seems clear that certain taxes and fees will be levied as with any transfer regardless if foreigner or Thai. I assume that in case of a gift, the Treasury Department's property valuation lists would be used as a calculation base.

The question I'd be also be interested in would be, is FET needed on any amount of money (up to the original purchase price) if it is gifted from a Thai to the foreign spouse.

 

[soi3eddie]

19 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The full amount would still need to be remitted. Otherwise everyone would simply call any purchase a gift and avoid the requirements. 

The land office would see it as a normal transaction and still want to see foreign funds, and they would still charge transfer fees taxes etc.

Correct. When I acquired my Thai ex-wife's 50% of our Bangkok condo on divorce, I had to remit from overseas an amount of 50% of the agreed value in order to get her name taken off the chanote (it was in both our names). The land office will want to see the foreign funds remittance receipt.  Once title was transferred to my name only, the funds were sent back to the UK by my lawyer. Very lucky that I was able to access sufficent funds.

 

[RobertJNerder]

@Peterw42what do you mean by "full amount" when it is gifted as per OP's scenario?

@soi3eddieWhy would the lawyer send back the money to you when you purchased your ex-wife's share of the condo?

[Robert Paulson]

34 minutes ago, RobertJNerder said:

@Peterw42what do you mean by "full amount" when it is gifted as per OP's scenario?

@soi3eddieWhy would the lawyer send back the money to you when you purchased your ex-wife's share of the condo?

You have to go through the motions of buying the condo even though it’s a gift. Including paying all the taxes. It’s quite ridiculous imo especially considering if it’s a gift from a spouse or family member

[RobertJNerder]

Does that mean you had to remit money to your spouse with FET? And if so what amount? 

[Robert Paulson]

1 hour ago, RobertJNerder said:

Does that mean you had to remit money to your spouse with FET? And if so what amount? 

I think it’s how much they decide the condo is worth, which is another annoyance I’ve seen where they seem to want to appraise a taxable value higher than you could get if you sold. It’s all a shakedown as usual. Yes from what I can tell you’d have to remit the money, for nothing

Edited May 7 by Robert Paulson

[soi3eddie]

2 hours ago, RobertJNerder said:

 

@soi3eddieWhy would the lawyer send back the money to you when you purchased your ex-wife's share of the condo?

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My divorce financial settlement was done in the UK where we both live. Also, it was a complicated division of multiple assets so she didn't get 50% of the value in cash as she kept 100% of other asets. 

 

Edited May 7 by soi3eddie

[Peterw42]

11 hours ago, RobertJNerder said:

@Peterw42what do you mean by "full amount" when it is gifted as per OP's scenario?

@soi3eddieWhy would the lawyer send back the money to you when you purchased your ex-wife's share of the condo?

An amount of money, equal to the price of the condo, need to be transferred into Thailand from another country.

The land office will have their own appraisal of the condo, So you cant say the price is 1,000 baht.

 

The land office wont recognize "gifting", anytime a property changes ownership, that is a sale and fees/taxes are due.

[Mike Lister]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

An amount of money, equal to the price of the condo, need to be transferred into Thailand from another country.

The land office will have their own appraisal of the condo, So you cant say the price is 1,000 baht.

 

The land office wont recognize "gifting", anytime a property changes ownership, that is a sale and fees/taxes are due.

Any supporting evidence for that statement? 

 

The Thai Revenue Department has far greater authority, reach and more extensive powers than the Land Office and the Thai Revenue Code does allow for Gift Tax. It seems improbable that if the Revenue allowed it, that the Land Office wouldn't.

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Any supporting evidence for that statement? 

 

The Thai Revenue Department has far greater authority, reach and more extensive powers than the Land Office and the Thai Revenue Code does allow for Gift Tax. It seems improbable that if the Revenue allowed it, that the Land Office wouldn't.

 

Gift tax is for personal income. whether or not tax is due on income. its got nothing to do with the transfer fees and taxes on property.

Depending on circumstances, the husband could have an income tax liability on being given a property. Gift tax is so people cannot avoid income tax by declaring something a gift. The Thai tax office may well levy a gift tax on the husband receiving a property.

 

Again, nothing to do with property transfer.

The Land office charges transfer fees, stamp duty, capital gains etc., (on what they say its worth) every time a property changes hands. Regardless of whether the property changed hands for 10 baht or 10 million baht.

 

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Gift tax is for personal income. whether or not tax is due on income. its got nothing to do with the transfer fees and taxes on property.

Depending on circumstances, the husband could have an income tax liability on being given a property. Gift tax is so people cannot avoid income tax by declaring something a gift. The Thai tax office may well levy a gift tax on the husband receiving a property.

 

Again, nothing to do with property transfer.

The Land office charges transfer fees, stamp duty, capital gains etc., (on what they say its worth) every time a property changes hands. Regardless of whether the property changed hands for 10 baht or 10 million baht.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood, I hadn't picked up on the fact you were discussing transfer fees et al and taxes on property.

[RobertJNerder]

7 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

An amount of money, equal to the price of the condo, need to be transferred into Thailand from another country.

The land office will have their own appraisal of the condo, So you cant say the price is 1,000 baht.

 

The land office wont recognize "gifting", anytime a property changes ownership, that is a sale and fees/taxes are due.

Thanks, it seems clear to me that when it is gifted, the land office will use the official (probably Treasury Department's) appraisal of the condo as a calculation basis to levy tax and fees.

 

What I wasn't sure of, was based on what value actual money needs to be transferred in the scenario of gifting from a Thai to a non-Thai spouse or if there needed to be money transfer at all.

So these situations may occur in terms of money needed to be remitted from abroad:

1. nothing,

2. full amount of the original purchase price stated on the Sale and Purchase Agreement to Thai spouse--> FET form for documentation,

3. full amount of the (virtual) official appraisal value to Thai spouse --> FET for documentation

 

As to @Robert Paulson it seems #3 is the case.

For @soi3eddie 's scenario it seemed an "agreed value" was put down which seems more like a straightforward purchase situation with a price tag rather than a gifting situation.

Edited May 8 by RobertJNerder

[mrwebb8825]

A lot depends on 2 things; 1) Does the condo belong to a "group" that has a set by government Thai to Foreign Ownership percentage they must maintain? and 2) What kind of financing did the wife/gf get to purchase the condo?

 

My wife and I bought a condo under 1 or the government finance schemes but the hitch is "Thai Only" to qualify. We can add or transfer to, me when we've paid it off.

[RobertJNerder]

@mrwebb8825, you said your wife and you bought it, but is your name on the Chanote?

[mrwebb8825]

58 minutes ago, RobertJNerder said:

@mrwebb8825, you said your wife and you bought it, but is your name on the Chanote?

It will be when we pay it off next year.

[RobertJNerder]

Would you expect to remit additional money from abroad at the time it will be transferred to you (somewhat as per OP‘s situation) as that would constitute transfer from Thai to foreign (co-)ownership?