Red Phoenix Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Average Covid-19 victim dies years before they otherwise would The idea that people who die of Covid have lived longer than average fails to appreciate these are the very people who would have been expected to live much longer. As we have written before, people dying of Covid lose about a decade of life, on average. ... An 82-year-old man can expect to live for another 7.4 years on average, while an 85-year-old woman can expect to live another 6.87 years on average. https://fullfact.org/news/boris-johnson-whatsapp-covid-life-expectancy-cummings/ Pure nonsense! The average age of a person dying with/from COVID was 82.3 years of age. How could you then lose about about 10 years of your life? That implies they would have lived on average till 92.3 yeas of age if they hadn't caught COVID. As I wrote before > That average of 82.3 years of age for persons dying with/from COVID shows that the large majority of those that died were already very senior, and for every tragedy of a young person dying from COVID there must have been dozens of +82 year old seniors that died from/with COVID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 And virtually everyone that died of covid had at least one comorbidity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 Because the average lifetime ages at birth are totally different than the average age of death once people have survived into their 70s or 80s (meaning they've survived up to that point all that life could throw at them) and still have years left (absent COVID). Three myths about COVID-19 that the data proved wrong Myth 1: ‘Those who die from COVID-19 would have died soon anyway’ In the first year of COVID-19 (5 March 2020 to 5 March 2021), 1.5 million potential years of life were lost in the UK as a result of people dying with the virus. In England and Wales alone this figure is 1.4 million. On average, each of the 146,000 people who died with COVID-19 lost 10.2 years of life. https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/one-year-on-three-myths-about-COVID-19-that-the-data-proved-wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stats Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 A post with an unsourced and unsubstantiated claim has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 38 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Average Covid-19 victim dies years before they otherwise would The idea that people who die of Covid have lived longer than average fails to appreciate these are the very people who would have been expected to live much longer. As we have written before, people dying of Covid lose about a decade of life, on average. ... An 82-year-old man can expect to live for another 7.4 years on average, while an 85-year-old woman can expect to live another 6.87 years on average. https://fullfact.org/news/boris-johnson-whatsapp-covid-life-expectancy-cummings/ Most had higher risk of dying, after the average life expectancy age. No real surprises there, especially the higher aged and unhealthy groups. I was born 1954, and my life expectancy was 67.7 yrs, and almost come true Covid deaths by age group ... the old & unhealthy (source) Edited May 9 by KhunLA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Because the average lifetime ages at birth are totally different than the average age of death once people have survived into their 70s or 80s (meaning they've survived up to that point all that life could throw at them) and still have years left (absent COVID). Did the study consider comorbidities, or just the average remaining life expectancy of healthy people at their age? A healthy 80 year old may expect to live another 10 years, but not one who's 50 pounds overweight and has diabetes and COPD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 (edited) 17 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Most had higher risk of dying, after the average life expectancy age. No real surprises there, especially the higher aged and unhealthy groups. I was born 1954, and my life expectancy was 67.7 yrs, and almost come true Covid deaths by age group ... the old & unhealthy (source) China is always good for accurate, broadly representative COVID data! Especially at the very outset of the pandemic... 🙂 From your source above: Older Statistics Data from initial studies in China ... The Epidemiological Characteristics of an Outbreak of 2019 Novel Coronavirus Diseases (COVID-19) - China CCDC, February 17 2020 Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) [Pdf] - World Health Organization, Feb. 28, 2020 [emphasis added] Edited May 9 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 3 minutes ago, impulse said: Did the study consider comorbidities, or just the average remaining life expectancy of healthy people at their age? A healthy 80 year old may expect to live another 10 years, but not one who's 50 pounds overweight and has diabetes and COPD. AFAIK, the data looks at the actual life expectancies at the population level (meaning all) once people got to those advanced ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: AFAIK, the data looks at the actual life expectancies at the population level (meaning all) once people got to those advanced ages. And averages it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) In IMHO, and my opinion only, AstraZeneca is being withdrawn for a couple reason: ... obviously low sales, and IMHO, because nobody trusts them anymore ... possibly more, IMHO, coming the end of 2024, it will not longer be protected from liabilities, under the 'PREP Act' and yes, you read that correctly. At least in the USA, Under the PREP Act, covid PrEPs & covid countermeasures, (note, not called a vaccine) were protected from liabilities, which will come to and end Dec 2024. Guessing it's a good idea to get rid of all that stock before hand. Can reads about it here and here. Also for those that don't know, USA has a specially 'Vaccine / PREP/ countermeasures'' court system to handle lawsuits, that settles them, with compensation, and usually relieves the manufacturers the burden of admitting and be assigned fault for the damages hey incur. Which you can read about here. ..."What does it mean to be awarded compensation? Being awarded compensation for a petition does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the alleged injury. In fact: • Approximately 60 percent of all compensation awarded by the VICP comes as result of a negotiated settlement between the parties in which HHS has not concluded, based upon review of the evidence, that the alleged vaccine(s) caused the alleged injury." Can read about that here and how it covers 'covid countermeasures': Many vaccines have low effective rates, 'seasonal flu vaccine' one of the obviously ones per CDC date. Along with many, harm and injure the recipients, and they get compensated quickly, IF, they know about this program. ... "Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $5 billion" Or they can go through the usual court system, but expect a lengthy, expensive fight y the manufacturers. Edited May 9 by KhunLA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBruv Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Average Covid-19 victim dies years before they otherwise would The idea that people who die of Covid have lived longer than average fails to appreciate these are the very people who would have been expected to live much longer. As we have written before, people dying of Covid lose about a decade of life, on average. ... An 82-year-old man can expect to live for another 7.4 years on average, while an 85-year-old woman can expect to live another 6.87 years on average. https://fullfact.org/news/boris-johnson-whatsapp-covid-life-expectancy-cummings/ The idea that people who died from vaccine induced blood clots & heart attacks etc lived shorter than average fails to appreciate these are the very people who would have been expected to live much much longer - many decades in some cases. The most famous AZ victim was Lisa Shaw, who was 44 (and left behind a very young daughter) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796 Edited May 10 by stats broken/non-working weblink removed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 The AZ COVID vaccine was never approved for general use in the United States... The furthest it got was a clinical trials round, and no blood clotting cases surfaced in that U.S. trial. So I'm not sure what the potential U.S. liability might be.... AstraZeneca withdraws US COVID vaccine application, shifts focus to antibody treatments Nov 10, 2022 After missing the boat for emergency use of COVID-19 vaccines, AstraZeneca has finally pulled the plug on efforts to sell its shot in the U.S. AstraZeneca has decided to withdraw its application for COVID vaccine Vaxzevria with the FDA, CEO Pascal Soriot told reporters during a press briefing Thursday. The U.S. market is already well supplied, and the demand for vaccines is declining, Soriot said. https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-withdraws-us-covid-vaccine-application-focus-shifts-antibody-treatments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 4 minutes ago, BigBruv said: The idea that people who died from vaccine induced blood clots & heart attacks etc lived shorter than average fails to appreciate these are the very people who would have been expected to live much much longer - many decades in some cases. https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus//freedomofinformationfoi/deathsandinjuriesasaresultoftheastrazenecavaccination The most famous AZ victim was Lisa Shaw, who was 44 (and left behind a very young daughter) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796 No one's arguing there were very rare side effects from the AZ vaccine, not even AZ as a general principle. But it will come down to the UK courts to decide whether or not the vaccine was to blame in individual cases, given that both COVID and other medical conditions can and do cause the same kinds of blood clots. The other thing to keep in context about this is the 50+ plaintiffs in the UK court cases come from among 50 million total AZ vaccine doses given in the UK.... just one indication of just how rare the blood clotting issue has been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBruv Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: COVID ...can and do[es] cause blood clots. The idea that you can catch a RESPIRATORY virus which gives you blood clots is very difficult to believe. I suspect I know the real cause though I understand why many organisations would push the 'covid gives you blood clots' narrative. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BigBruv said: The idea that you can catch a RESPIRATORY virus which gives you blood clots is very difficult to believe. Then I guess you need to bone up on your medical studies: "It is well established that COVID itself caused a significantly increased risk of these related blood clots and also thrombocytopenia (low platelet count). An August 2021, analysis of 30 million vaccinated people in the UK showed that the risks of thrombocytopenic events were much higher following a COVID infection, compared with any COVID-related vaccine." https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-05-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-withdrawn-victim.html "Blood clotting is a complex process, involving many different proteins and chemical messengers all interacting with each other in a series of reactions. Venous thromboembolism, an umbrella term for several common blood clotting diseases, is quite common, affecting roughly 17,000 Australians each year. While cases can vary in severity, many are treatable with medications such as heparin and other anti-clotting treatments. Blood clots are a known complication of COVID-19 itself. One analysis found that 14.7 per cent of COVID-19 patients developed some form of blood clotting, often in places like the legs or lungs, where other blood clots are more commonly found." https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/what-we-know-about-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-blood-clots Blood clots are also a complication of COVID-19 Researchers have also seen a strong association between blood clots and COVID-19 infection itself, says Hyung Chun, MD, a Yale Medicine cardiologist. “Unfortunately, in those who are sick enough with COVID-19 to be in the intensive care unit [ICU], blood clots have been a major factor in their illness,” Dr. Chun says. Close to 20% of COVID-19 patients in the ICU develop blood clots, he says. “That’s far higher than what you’d expect for patients who are in the ICU for different conditions. Estimates I’ve seen are in the 3 to 10% range for patients admitted for other reasons," adds Dr. Chun. https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots Edited May 9 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 9 Author Share Posted May 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, KhunLA said: Along with many, harm and injure the recipients, and they get compensated quickly, IF, they know about this program. ... "Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $5 billion" All of those VICP cases and dollars involve vaccines other than the COVID vaccines, which for now are covered under a different federal program... But nonetheless to add some context on the broader vaccines issue involving VICP: "How many petitions have been awarded compensation? According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2021 over 6 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 10,870 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 7,846 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, approximately 1 individual was compensated. [emphasis added] https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vicp/vicp-stats-09-01-23.pdf "When coverage under the PREP Act Declaration for COVID-19 ends, COVID-19 vaccine injuries could be compensated through VICP, contingent on additional regulatory and statutory changes. To be included in the VICP, (1) the vaccine must be recommended by the CDC for routine administration to children or pregnant women; (2) the vaccine must be made subject by act of Congress to the excise tax that funds VICP; and (3) the Secretary of HHS must add the vaccine to the Vaccine Injury Table, which lists injuries and conditions associated with vaccines covered by VICP. Should all of these changes occur, COVID-19 vaccines would be covered by VICP. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46982 Edited May 9 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Phoenix Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: "It is well established that COVID itself caused a significantly increased risk of these related blood clots and also thrombocytopenia (low platelet count). An August 2021, analysis of 30 million vaccinated people in the UK showed that the risks of thrombocytopenic events were much higher following a COVID infection, compared with any COVID-related vaccine." Say no more, say nor more... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 10 hours ago, KhunLA said: Most had higher risk of dying, after the average life expectancy age. No real surprises there, especially the higher aged and unhealthy groups. I was born 1954, and my life expectancy was 67.7 yrs, and almost come true Covid deaths by age group ... the old & unhealthy (source) And now look at your life expectancy at birth and your present life expectancy and you're there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBruv Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Close to 20% of COVID-19 patients in the ICU develop blood clots, he says. And what % of the 'C19' patients (who developed blood clots in the ICU )were vaccinated????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 For people in the U.S. hospitalized with COVID, the overwhelming odds are they're NOT up-to-date with the recommended COVID vaccines (meaning having received a bivalent booster or the newest XBB monovalent vaccine), per the study below. (the gray shaded columns represent those NOT up-to-date with COVID vaccines: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2024-02-28-29/02-COVID-Taylor-508.pdf Centers for Disease Control and Prevention National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases COVID-19–Associated Hospitalizations among Adults — COVID-NET, 2023–2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBruv Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 So you *don't know* what % of the 'C19' patients (who developed blood clots in the ICU) were vaccinated. Got it. Overwhelming odds are that they would have been *vaccinated on arrival at hospital (if not before)* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 4 minutes ago, BigBruv said: Overwhelming odds are that they would have been *vaccinated on arrival at hospital (if not before)* Sorry, but that's simply not the way it works in the U.S., where most people have to voluntarily decide if they want to get vaccinated or not. If it were, the above chart would not be showing what it did, which was 70% of U.S. adult COVID hospitalizations in the subject study were not up-to-date with the recommended COVID vaccinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Phoenix Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Sorry, but that's simply not the way it works in the U.S., where most people have to voluntarily decide if they want to get vaccinated or not. If it were, the above chart would not be showing what it did, which was 70% of U.S. adult COVID hospitalizations in the subject study were not up-to-date with the recommended COVID vaccinations. Yep, huge market-potential for a Covid-vaccination subscription service to keep you 'updated' with your shots. The wet dream of Pfizer and Moderna would be to make that mandatory... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter zwart Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/8/2024 at 9:27 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said: There have been a lot of different studies done by a lot of different researchers around the world on the impact of COVID vaccines during the pandemic, and they all have come to the same/similar conclusions: COVID vaccines saved 20M lives in 1st year, scientists say https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-england-54d29ae3af5c700f15d704c14ee224b5 Report: COVID-19 vaccines saved US $1.15 trillion, 3 million lives https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/report-covid-19-vaccines-saved-us-115-trillion-3-million-lives COVID-19 vaccinations have saved more than 1.4 million lives in the WHO European Region, a new study finds https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/16-01-2024-covid-19-vaccinations-have-saved-more-than-1.4-million-lives-in-the-who-european-region--a-new-study-finds As you can see the numbers go all the way. No one knows. Completly subjective 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 4 hours ago, Red Phoenix said: Yep, huge market-potential for a Covid-vaccination subscription service to keep you 'updated' with your shots. The wet dream of Pfizer and Moderna would be to make that mandatory... "Covid 365"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBruv Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Sorry, but that's simply not the way it works in the U.S., where most people have to voluntarily decide if they want to get vaccinated or not. If it were, the above chart would not be showing what it did, which was 70% of U.S. adult COVID hospitalizations in the subject study were not up-to-date with the recommended COVID vaccinations. But you *DON'T KNOW* what % of the 'C19' patients (who developed blood clots in the ICU) were vaccinated. You're just guessing to support your narrative - that's fine. Edited May 10 by BigBruv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof999 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 On 5/9/2024 at 8:19 PM, KhunLA said: Most had higher risk of dying, after the average life expectancy age. No real surprises there, especially the higher aged and unhealthy groups. I was born 1954, and my life expectancy was 67.7 yrs, and almost come true Covid deaths by age group ... the old & unhealthy (source) Those %ages are actually quite scary. Let's not forget that COVID was ridiculously contagious. I know of very few people that did know have known infections. The lowest death rate on the chart for an >10 year old is 0.2%. Let's take just the UK population of 67M and take only those aged between 10 and 39 years old, which I'd estimate at 50%. 67,000,000 * 0.5 * 0.002 = 67,000. 67,000 young people dead in the UK alone, including many with no pre-existing conditions is not to be scoffed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 10 minutes ago, Woof999 said: Let's take just the UK population of 67M and take only those aged between 10 and 39 years old, which I'd estimate at 50%. 67,000,000 * 0.5 * 0.002 = 67,000. 67,000 young people dead in the UK alone, including many with no pre-existing conditions is not to be scoffed at. The total official death toll from COVID in the UK during the pandemic has been more than 230,000 (all ages) thus far, and growing at about 100+ new COVID deaths per week lately. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://ukhsa-dashboard.data.gov.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof999 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: The total official death toll from COVID in the UK during the pandemic has been more than 230,000 (all ages) thus far, and growing at about 100+ new COVID deaths per week lately. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://ukhsa-dashboard.data.gov.uk/ Indeed. I was just highlighting that the percentages shown in the post I quoted looked small but, even when applying only the lowest %age and to the lowest age groups least likely to have underlying conditions, would still equate to many tens of thousands of deaths. A common narrative is that COVID only really killed the elderly or those with pre-existing conditions. It didn't. It killed the otherwise healthy in frightening numbers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 21 minutes ago, Woof999 said: Indeed. I was just highlighting that the percentages shown in the post I quoted looked small but, even when applying only the lowest %age and to the lowest age groups least likely to have underlying conditions, would still equate to many tens of thousands of deaths. This is UK COVID deaths data by age group for the first two years of the pandemic: The elderly made up the largest share of COVID deaths, but there were sizable deaths as well among several younger age groupings. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1291744/covid-19-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-by-age-and-gender/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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