Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax

[Mike Lister]

19 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Tickets are issued (SITI, Sold Inside, Ticketed Inside) in the country where travel begins. If you are flying THL-XXX-THL, then the ticket will be issued in Thailand in THB. And that cost/price would be assessable income.

 

Years ago you could utilize SOTI, Sold Outside, Ticketed Inside, but no longer possible.

 

Sucks when you drop 120,000 on a business-class ticket.

 

 

So fly short haul to Sing, KL, HK etc and then long haul from there.

[JBChiangRai]

23 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

So fly short haul to Sing, KL, HK etc and then long haul from there.

 

One way to Sing/KL etc

roundtrip KL/Sing to (say) UK. back to BKK

 

Edited May 24 by JBChiangRai

[ballpoint]

Seems to me that this thread has more discussion on "I think this and that are okay, but I'm not sure, and if I go ahead and do this or that, what are the chances it will be investigated?" rather than "this will definitely work, so I'm doing it".  From what I've read, the ones who plan on limiting their time in Thailand to under 180 days per year periodically, and remitting money during that year, seem to be the only ones actually following the title, though I may have missed something.

 

I am retired, under 60, have no pension, and never will.  My regular income is from various managed funds, with a few other eggs in other baskets for a rainy day.  I pay no capital gains tax on sale of the funds, so can't show any evidence of taxes paid to the Thai RD.  I have some (slight) hope from section 42 of the Thai Tax Code:

 

"Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation:

...

(23) Income from sale of investment units in a mutual fund.

(24) Income of a mutual fund.

..."

 

Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

My funds are classed as "mutual" in the "Western" definition, but the Thai RD has this to say (from the same source):

 

"Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

...

Mutual fund means a body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company for a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare.

..."

 

In any event, I'll be consulting a reputable tax advisor before selling and remitting any more.  Last year I remitted enough non-assessable income (under the old rules) to live on this year, and have enough in an otherwise untouched offshore account for two more, so it won't be till late 2026 that this bridge will need to be crossed.  I'm also planning on remitting around THB500,000 of assessable income per year - which is right at my taxable threshold, over the next few years, and file a return each year declaring that amount in order to form a pattern of small annual remits in case they're needed in future.

 

If, as I expect, the Thai RD pooh pooh the idea of my managed funds falling under their definition of "mutual", and until they present a definite position on gifts and use of overseas credit cards, my options are:

 

- Spend less than 180 days in country every two or three years, and sell and remit enough funds during that year to last until my next semi exile.  People are talking about spending six months away at a time, but I would do it more on a rotation basis.  A month here, a month travelling in Vietnam, a month here, a month travelling in Cambodia, a month here, a month in my home country, and so on, making sure the days spent here numbered less than 180.

 

- Cut my spending here.  Not likely.

 

- Just go ahead and pay the tax.  I currently remit around THB 2M per year.  My tax calculator shows THB 328,750 to pay on that, which is affordable, but I'd instead bring in THB 2.46M, pay THB 459,500 tax and have THB 2.0005 in the hand. 

 

To be honest, I'll probably give the monthly holidays method a go, but if that becomes a drag, then I'll just go ahead and pay the tax rather than downgrade my living conditions or put myself out.  Nothing will be done until I consult a reputable tax advisor though.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24 by ballpoint

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Seems to me that this thread has more discussion on "I think this and that are okay, but I'm not sure, and if I go ahead and do this or that, what are the chances it will be investigated?" rather than "this will definitely work, so I'm doing it".  From what I've read, the ones who plan on limiting their time in Thailand to under 180 days per year periodically, and remitting money during that year, seem to be the only ones actually following the title, though I may have missed something.

 

I am retired, under 60, have no pension, and never will.  My regular income is from various managed funds, with a few other eggs in other baskets for a rainy day.  I pay no capital gains tax on sale of the funds, so can't show any evidence of taxes paid to the Thai RD.  I have some (slight) hope from section 42 of the Thai Tax Code:

 

"Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation:

...

(23) Income from sale of investment units in a mutual fund.

(24) Income of a mutual fund.

..."

 

Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

My funds are classed as "mutual" in the "Western" definition, but the Thai RD has this to say (from the same source):

 

"Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

...

Mutual fund means a body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company for a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare.

..."

 

In any event, I'll be consulting a reputable tax advisor before selling and remitting any more.  Last year I remitted enough non-assessable income (under the old rules) to live on this year, and have enough in an otherwise untouched offshore account for two more, so it won't be till late 2026 that this bridge will need to be crossed.  I'm also planning on remitting around THB500,000 of assessable income per year - which is right at my taxable threshold, over the next few years, and file a return each year declaring that amount in order to form a pattern of small annual remits in case they're needed in future.

 

If, as I expect, the Thai RD pooh pooh the idea of my managed funds falling under their definition of "mutual", and until they present a definite position on gifts and use of overseas credit cards, my options are:

 

- Spend less than 180 days in country every two or three years, and sell and remit enough funds during that year to last until my next semi exile.  People are talking about spending six months away at a time, but I would do it more on a rotation basis.  A month here, a month travelling in Vietnam, a month here, a month travelling in Cambodia, a month here, a month in my home country, and so on, making sure the days spent here numbered less than 180.

 

- Cut my spending here.  Not likely.

 

- Just go ahead and pay the tax.  I currently remit around THB 2M per year.  My tax calculator shows THB 328,750 to pay on that, which is affordable, but I'd instead bring in THB 2.46M, pay THB 459,500 tax and have THB 2.05 in the hand. 

 

To be honest, I'll probably give the monthly holidays method a go, but if that becomes a drag, then I'll just go ahead and pay the tax rather than downgrade my living conditions or put myself out.  Nothing will be done until I consult a reputable tax advisor though.

 

Consulting a reputable tax advisor is an excellent idea, especially since nobody in this thread (or its predecessor) has identified themself as an experienced, Thai trained and certified, Tax CPA. Our role in this thread is to provide information for members to follow up and decide upon and to get them thinking about what to do next, apparently it's working.

[Mike Teavee]

15 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Seems to me that this thread has more discussion on "I think this and that are okay, but I'm not sure, and if I go ahead and do this or that, what are the chances it will be investigated?" rather than "this will definitely work, so I'm doing it".  From what I've read, the ones who plan on limiting their time in Thailand to under 180 days per year periodically, and remitting money during that year, seem to be the only ones actually following the title, though I may have missed something.

 

I am retired, under 60, have no pension, and never will.  My regular income is from various managed funds, with a few other eggs in other baskets for a rainy day.  I pay no capital gains tax on sale of the funds, so can't show any evidence of taxes paid to the Thai RD.  I have some (slight) hope from section 42 of the Thai Tax Code:

 

"Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation:

...

(23) Income from sale of investment units in a mutual fund.

(24) Income of a mutual fund.

..."

 

Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

My funds are classed as "mutual" in the "Western" definition, but the Thai RD has this to say (from the same source):

 

"Section 39 In this Chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:

...

Mutual fund means a body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company for a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare.

..."

 

In any event, I'll be consulting a reputable tax advisor before selling and remitting any more.  Last year I remitted enough non-assessable income (under the old rules) to live on this year, and have enough in an otherwise untouched offshore account for two more, so it won't be till late 2026 that this bridge will need to be crossed.  I'm also planning on remitting around THB500,000 of assessable income per year - which is right at my taxable threshold, over the next few years, and file a return each year declaring that amount in order to form a pattern of small annual remits in case they're needed in future.

 

If, as I expect, the Thai RD pooh pooh the idea of my managed funds falling under their definition of "mutual", and until they present a definite position on gifts and use of overseas credit cards, my options are:

 

- Spend less than 180 days in country every two or three years, and sell and remit enough funds during that year to last until my next semi exile.  People are talking about spending six months away at a time, but I would do it more on a rotation basis.  A month here, a month travelling in Vietnam, a month here, a month travelling in Cambodia, a month here, a month in my home country, and so on, making sure the days spent here numbered less than 180.

 

- Cut my spending here.  Not likely.

 

- Just go ahead and pay the tax.  I currently remit around THB 2M per year.  My tax calculator shows THB 328,750 to pay on that, which is affordable, but I'd instead bring in THB 2.46M, pay THB 459,500 tax and have THB 2.0005 in the hand. 

 

To be honest, I'll probably give the monthly holidays method a go, but if that becomes a drag, then I'll just go ahead and pay the tax rather than downgrade my living conditions or put myself out.  Nothing will be done until I consult a reputable tax advisor though.

Just my thoughts, as you say there is scant definitive information available yet. 

1. I believe the exemption on "Mutual Finds" is for Thai Mutual Funds, assuming yours are not in Thailand I don't think you'll get any relief for them 
2. The < 180 days in Thailand will work, but there is an outstanding question around whether income/gains accrued whilst you're Tax Resident in Thailand, will be taxable even if remitted it in a year where you're not Tax Resident? If they are then the 6 months out every 3-4 years would only work if you accrued/remitted all of your income/gains in the year you were Non-Tax Resident.
3. Have you considered the LTR Visa? - $80K of income pa which can include Capital Gains or $40K pa income (again can use Capital Gains) plus a $250K investment & you get exemption from Tax on remitted overseas income. 

 

Edited May 24 by Mike Teavee

[bamnutsak]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

So fly short haul to Sing, KL, HK etc and then long haul from there.

 

Yes, this would work if on separate tickets.

 

Adds an extra stop/time, may not be able to check bags through, extra cost, no protection for missed connection.

 

BKK-SIN/KUL/HKG would of course be assessable income.

 

You could have a relative in your home country purchase the ticket with their credit card issued in your name, then reimburse them. But not 100% sure that this would pass muster with Thai Revenue Officials.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24 by bamnutsak

[ballpoint]

57 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Just my thoughts, as you say there is scant definitive information available yet. 

1. I believe the exemption on "Mutual Finds" is for Thai Mutual Funds, assuming yours are not in Thailand I don't think you'll get any relief for them 
2. The < 180 days in Thailand will work, but there is an outstanding question around whether income/gains accrued whilst you're Tax Resident in Thailand, will be taxable even if remitted it in a year where you're not Tax Resident? If they are then the 6 months out every 3-4 years would only work if you accrued/remitted all of your income/gains in the year you were Non-Tax Resident.
3. Have you considered the LTR Visa? - $80K of income pa which can include Capital Gains or $40K pa income (again can use Capital Gains) plus a $250K investment & you get exemption from Tax on remitted overseas income. 

 

 

Hi Mike, I appreciate your posts on these threads.  In reply to your questions:

 

"1. I believe the exemption on "Mutual Finds" is for Thai Mutual Funds, assuming yours are not in Thailand I don't think you'll get any relief for them"

 

Yes, that's my belief too, which is why I said there was only slight hope.  I think they're referring to things like Thai infrastructure funds, which are tax free for at least some of their term and do fall under the definition of "trading activities that affect public safety and welfare".  However, in places like the Bangkok Bank investment site they do place managed funds under the heading "mutual", which is where the "hope" part of "slight hope" came from.  Either way, I'm not banking on it, but will get advice.

 

 

"2. The < 180 days in Thailand will work, but there is an outstanding question around whether income/gains accrued whilst you're Tax Resident in Thailand, will be taxable even if remitted it in a year where you're not Tax Resident? If they are then the 6 months out every 3-4 years would only work if you accrued/remitted all of your income/gains in the year you were Non-Tax Resident."

 

I can't see how they'd enforce the bit about overseas income made during a tax resident year being taxable, even if remitted during a non-tax resident year.  Unless they come up with a new law stating everyone making a remittance in any year, whether a tax resident or not, must file a tax return for that year.  There is currently no necessity to file a return for any year you are a non-tax resident.  In any case, that's speculation about what might or might not be okay, which is what I was trying to avoid in my post.  My words were "sell and remit enough funds during that (non-tax resident) year".  I do not realise any income from my funds until the year I sell them - all annual distributions are automatically reinvested, therefore, until the outstanding question has a definite answer, I would sell and remit them in the same year.  

 

"3. Have you considered the LTR Visa? - $80K of income pa which can include Capital Gains or $40K pa income (again can use Capital Gains) plus a $250K investment & you get exemption from Tax on remitted overseas income."

 

Yes, I've gone through the thread on that, and looked at their website.  My problem is I don't sell $80k of funds annually, so can't show that as regular income.  I do make more than that most years in gains, but spread over a number of funds, and then immediately reinvested.  I suppose I could sell $80k for a year or two to build a record of it and then reinvest the excess, and do the same after five years when they check again.  Going the other route, I do sell more than $40k per year, but tying up $250k of capital in Thailand is an issue.  As is, now, bringing the money into the country to make the investment.  I need to know for sure just what my tax bill will be, and weigh that up against potential loss of investment income by fulfilling the LTR requirements. Unfortunately, even the big tax accountancies don't seem to have the full picture from the Thai RD at the moment.  Most of their work is for expats employed by multinationals, who are unaffected by the new directive.  When I was working here, my employer used PwC to file my taxes, and the question of remittances didn't even come up.  Wait and see I guess.  Trouble is, it's more wait and less see at the moment.

 

 

Edited May 24 by ballpoint

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

 

Tickets are issued (SITI, Sold Inside, Ticketed Inside) in the country where travel begins. If you are flying THL-XXX-THL, then the ticket will be issued in Thailand in THB. And that cost/price would be assessable income.

 

Years ago you could utilize SOTI, Sold Outside, Ticketed Inside, but no longer possible.

 

Sucks when you drop 120,000 on a business-class ticket.

 

 

I buy most of my tickets SOTI.

Yes, if you want to fly with TG they are very reluctant to do this. 

But flying Arab airlines I never paid THB, and the tickets were never issued in Thailand,  even travel started in BKK.

 

Good to know that TG is now 35% more expensive.

[Satcommlee]

Pay your taxes guys, but pump 500K a year into an RMF fund which is tax deductable...

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, ballpoint said:

Yes, that's my belief too, which is why I said there was only slight hope.  I think they're referring to things like Thai infrastructure funds, which are tax free for at least some of their term and do fall under the definition of "trading activities that affect public safety and welfare".  However, in places like the Bangkok Bank investment site they do place managed funds under the heading "mutual", which is where the "hope" part of "slight hope" came from.  Either way, I'm not banking on it, but will get advice.

All Thai mutual funds are tax free, not only infrastructure funds or similar things. Including all the feeder funds they sell, where you effectively get exposure to foreign mutual funds (like Schroeder or whatever)

That's routine at BBLAM, SCB asset management, Krungsri asset management and all the others. 

 

About foreign mutual funds,  I don't know. It wasn't a question until know. 

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, ballpoint said:

I would sell and remit them in the same year

Good. 

Has been recommended before,  somewhere in these gigantic threads

[Lorry]

8 minutes ago, Satcommlee said:

Pay your taxes guys, but pump 500K a year into an RMF fund which is tax deductable...

Please elaborate

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Please elaborate

The contributions are tax deductible, up to 30% of assessible income, max 500k. It's a retirement fund, you have to hold it for minimum 5 years. UOB has several such funds.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-benefit/rmf

[scottdavio]

On 5/18/2024 at 4:48 PM, PJ71 said:

This sounds like the most sensible option.

 

What's the calendar year, 1st Jan - 31st Dec?

I have spoke to a few, rather wealthy friends who plan on doing the 179 day, these people spend a fortune in Thailand, there must be plenty of others considering doing the same, including myself. 

[PJ71]

17 minutes ago, scottdavio said:

I have spoke to a few, rather wealthy friends who plan on doing the 179 day, these people spend a fortune in Thailand, there must be plenty of others considering doing the same, including myself. 

Yeah, or wing it on tourist visas.

[KhunHeineken]

23 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Yeah, or wing it on tourist visas.

Yes.  Why would you bother leaving 800k baht in a Thai bank for a retirement visa / extension when you are staying just less than 6 months here a year? 

 

3 months in - 3 months out - 3 months in - 3 months out shouldn't cause any problems with immigration.  

 

The 800k baht invested elsewhere, at a better rate, will pay for the travel costs. 

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The contributions are tax deductible, up to 30% of assessible income, max 500k. It's a retirement fund, you have to hold it for minimum 5 years. UOB has several such funds.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-benefit/rmf

Thx.

So it's useful if you have Thailand sourced income

It is not useful if you want to bring money into Thailand to spend it in Thailand, but you are reluctant to pay up to 35% on the money you bring to spend here

[K2938]

9 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

The < 180 days in Thailand will work, but there is an outstanding question around whether income/gains accrued whilst you're Tax Resident in Thailand, will be taxable even if remitted it in a year where you're not Tax Resident?

All the scenario tables by the various international accountancy firms I have seen solely focus on whether the income was accrued while you are a tax resident in Thailand or not and do not at all focus on if at the time of remittance you are a Thai tax resident or not (see for example https://www.mazars.co.th/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/tax/revenue-department-s-guidance-on-foreign-income, same e.g. EY).  So why should the latter be relevant?  Do you have any reputable source saying this?

 

Edited May 24 by K2938

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, K2938 said:

All the scenario tables by the various international accountancy firms I have seen solely focus on whether the income was accrued while you are a tax resident in Thailand or not and do not at all focus on if at the time of remittance you are a Thai tax resident or not (see for example https://www.mazars.co.th/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/tax/revenue-department-s-guidance-on-foreign-income, same e.g. EY).  So why should the latter be relevant?  Do you have any reputable source saying this?

 

This has been discussed in extenso a long time ago, and, no, no reputable source. 

Just common sense and the RC.

 

The practical consequences if they really want non-residents to file taxes, even in years you are not in Thailand at all - have fun!

(Example: first trip ever to Thailand Jan +Feb 2024, go back to work in Sweden until Aug 2024, stay in Thailand Sep 2024 - Feb 2025. Leave and never come back. In 2025 you need to file taxes in Thailand for 2024. In 2026, when you have all but forgotten Thailand,  you have to file taxes for the money you spent Jan and Feb 2025, it can easily be over the threshold where you don't have to pay anything)

 

But in Thailand and in tax offices, common sense is not a reputable source.

[Klonko]

As regards gifts to spouses and conjugal property, and assuming that gifts are not tax assessable income of the giver when derived from funds which would become assessable income of the giver if remitted to the giver's Thai account:

 

Conjugal property may be an angle for TRD to make the gift at least partially tax assessable income of the receiver. Even if the giver uses income from own (not conjugal) foreign property, this income is conjugal property and 50% of the remitted funds are a "gift" of the receiver to her/himself. To be on the safe side, the giver can only use funds from own property, possibly prior savings which may not become tax assessable anyway when remitted to the giver's Thai account.

 

Some people may be able to choose another marital property status. My Thai wife and myself will not have conjugal property but separation of properties. While this is not possible under Thai law itself, we can agree on separation of properties under my home jurisdiction, which choice is recognised in my home country and should be recognised in Thailand under international private law, although our marriage was concluded in Thailand and our main domicile is Thailand.

 

We do not have separation of properties in order to establish a more favourable framework for our envisaged partial gift scheme, but because splitting conjugal property, which includes any income from own property in Thailand and abroad, would be practically a nightmare especially if I live as long as some of my family members, and my wife will be financially well secured anyway. The separation of properties will make our partial gift scheme more robust as side benefit.

 

Financial planning is not limited to taxes. I recommend spending efforts on marital property and estate planning as well.

Edited May 24 by Klonko

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

All the scenario tables by the various international accountancy firms I have seen solely focus on whether the income was accrued while you are a tax resident in Thailand or not and do not at all focus on if at the time of remittance you are a Thai tax resident or not (see for example https://www.mazars.co.th/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/tax/revenue-department-s-guidance-on-foreign-income, same e.g. EY).  So why should the latter be relevant?  Do you have any reputable source saying this?

 

Only funds that are remitted to Thailand are potentially assessable, those that remain outside the country are not. That means the priority concern and starting point is the date they are remitted to Thailand and whether or not you are tax resident here or not. If you were tax resident, those funds move to the next stage of review which is to determine their assessability to tax and when and how they were earned. If they were earned after 1 January 2024 and whilst you were tax resident in Thailand, they are highly likely to be tax assessable here, unless something in the DTA says they are not.

 

There is an open issue that we cannot resolve regarding the assessability of funds that are remitted in a year whilst not Thai tax resident, but earned whilst you were, and if they are  assessable to Thai tax or not. I appreciate this scenario runs counter to the rule whereby only remitted funds are assessable to Thai tax, but it nevertheless concerns many of us.

[Mike Lister]

11 hours ago, Lorry said:

Thx.

So it's useful if you have Thailand sourced income

It is not useful if you want to bring money into Thailand to spend it in Thailand, but you are reluctant to pay up to 35% on the money you bring to spend here

RTF and LTF funds are popular because of the tax break and don't require income from employment to fund them. It is entirely lawful for a foreigner to remit assessable funds from overseas each year and put up to 30% of that income (max 500k) into a an RFT which must be held for a minimum of five years. That reduces assessable income each year by up to 30%. As long as the RTF performs reasonably well, it can be beneficial. 

 

I held an LTF for several years but cashed out early because pf an airline bankruptcy which destroyed my profit. The value of those share holdings in the LTF was adjusted down to reflect the purchase price alone and to forego all dividends, for the past twenty plus years. When I encashed the policy I was taxed at 5% without the ability to reclaim. The key issue with LTF is trying to find one that performs better than the Western alternatives.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-benefit/rmf

[Mike Teavee]

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

All the scenario tables by the various international accountancy firms I have seen solely focus on whether the income was accrued while you are a tax resident in Thailand or not and do not at all focus on if at the time of remittance you are a Thai tax resident or not (see for example https://www.mazars.co.th/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/tax/revenue-department-s-guidance-on-foreign-income, same e.g. EY).  So why should the latter be relevant?  Do you have any reputable source saying this?

 

As I said it's an outstanding question because, as you say, none of the information out there really covers tax status at time of remittance, it all focuses on Tax status when the income was earned. 

 

My personal opinion is that it is not taxable as you wouldn't be filing a Tax Return if you were Non-Tax Resident, but I won't be taking that chance with the >10Million THB I'll be remitting from the tax free lump sum I get when my pensions kick in so will be getting the money & remitting it in a year when I'm non-tax resident. 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, Klonko said:

As regards gifts to spouses and conjugal property, and assuming that gifts are not tax assessable income of the giver when derived from funds which would become assessable income of the giver if remitted to the giver's Thai account:

 

Conjugal property may be an angle for TRD to make the gift at least partially tax assessable income of the receiver. Even if the giver uses income from own (not conjugal) foreign property, this income is conjugal property and 50% of the remitted funds are a "gift" of the receiver to her/himself. To be on the safe side, the giver can only use funds from own property, possibly prior savings which may not become tax assessable anyway when remitted to the giver's Thai account.

 

Some people may be able to choose another marital property status. My Thai wife and myself will not have conjugal property but separation of properties. While this is not possible under Thai law itself, we can agree on separation of properties under my home jurisdiction, which choice is recognised in my home country and should be recognised in Thailand under international private law, although our marriage was concluded in Thailand and our main domicile is Thailand.

 

We do not have separation of properties in order to establish a more favourable framework for our envisaged partial gift scheme, but because splitting conjugal property, which includes any income from own property in Thailand and abroad, would be practically a nightmare especially if I live as long as some of my family members, and my wife will be financially well secured anyway. The separation of properties will make our partial gift scheme more robust as side benefit.

 

Financial planning is not limited to taxes. I recommend spending efforts on marital property and estate planning as well.

Gifts between spouses (or explicitly given to one of the spouses) are considered "Sin Suan Tua" (Personal Property) & not conjugal property...

 

Personal property (Sin Suan Tua) under Thai marriage laws (section 1471) consists of:

1. property belonging to either spouse before marriage
2. property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse
3. property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift
4. Khongman.

Jointly owned matrimonial property

A marriage in Thailand creates jointly owned marital property (Sin Somros) of husband and wife. Property acquired during the course of the marriage (subject to the above section 1472) and 'fruits' of personal property during marriage will become jointly owned property between husband and wife.

Jointly owned property (section 1474) between husband and wife (Sin Somros) consists of:

1. property acquired during marriage;
2. property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will of gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros (jointly owned property);
3. fruits of Sin Suan Tua (personal property).

 

https://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/personal-and-marital-property.html

 

 

Edited May 24 by Mike Teavee

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

As I said it's an outstanding question because, as you say, none of the information out there really covers tax status at time of remittance, it all focuses on Tax status when the income was earned. 

 

"... it all focuses on Tax status when the income was earned" simply because in the new tax rule announcement it's implied and granted that the only people impacted are Thai tax residents.

 

Since non tax residents are only taxed on their Thai-sourced income wherever it is earned/paid, remittance event is irrelevant (because you'll have to declare and pay income tax even if this income is not remitted in Thailand).

 

Hence, non tax residents in Thailand are never impacted by the remittance tax rule.

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

"... it all focuses on Tax status when the income was earned" simply because in the new tax rule announcement it's implied and granted that the only people impacted are Thai tax residents.

 

Since non tax residents are only taxed on their Thai-sourced income wherever it is earned/paid, remittance event is irrelevant (because you'll have to declare and pay income tax even if this income is not remitted in Thailand).

 

Hence, non tax residents in Thailand are never impacted by the remittance tax rule.

It was put back onto the list of unknowns following the last debate. If there's nothing new to add, let's not discuss it again.

 

P) - Returned to the list: The issue of whether income earned in a year when tax resident but remitted to Thailand in a year when not tax resident………….is it taxable? Many contradictory reports on this, even from within TRD and tax consultants themselves. 

[bamnutsak]

18 hours ago, Lorry said:

I buy most of my tickets SOTI.

Yes, if you want to fly with TG they are very reluctant to do this. 

But flying Arab airlines I never paid THB, and the tickets were never issued in Thailand,  even travel started in BKK.

 

Can you share any details on how you buy SOTI? In which country do you purchase "most of your tickets"? Maybe a sample itinerary, airline and pricing. How do you choose the currency?

 

AFAIK, International Sales Indicators (ISI) were modified 15 January 2005.

[Klonko]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Gifts between spouses (or explicitly given to one of the spouses) are considered "Sin Suan Tua" (Personal Property) & not conjugal property...

…

Jointly owned property (section 1474) between husband and wife (Sin Somros) consists of:  …

1. fruits of Sin Suan Tua (personal property).

…

Therefore, if the spouses' properties are subject to Thai marital law, a "gift" remittance between spouses from foreign income from personal property comes from joint marital property and IMO 50% of such remittance should qualify as regular tax assessable income of the receiving spouse. If the spouses' properties' are fully separated under applicable foreign law, such remittance remains fully tax exempt within Thai gift rules.

[J Branche]

Also Reference Thailand Revenue Department Order

 

No. P.162/2023 issued 21 November 2023

“The provisions of paragraph one Section 41 shall not apply to assessable income arising before the date 1 January 2024.”

NOT TAX ADVICE, I interpret this as keep Clear, Documentation of Source (Pension, Social Security, Wages, Investment), Proof that this was assessable before 1 Janurary 2024 and the Balance showing the amount assessable Before and After 1 Jan 2024 so there will be little confusion.  No unjustified taxes.

 

Also reference YouTube Channel

Expat Tax Thailand  I believe he answers a lot of the common questions 

 

Additional Be Aware that the Same Deductions and Exemptions are allowed and applied to Foreign Sourced Income Remitted to Thailand

unless otherwise specified.  Single Person 60,000 baht deduction, actual policy cost not more than 25,000 Baht for Health/Medical Insurance Policy from THAI Business.  I have Pacific Cross or (Pacific Cross Health Insurance PCL) office Bangkok since they are licensed, registered and have office in Thailand they should qualify.  Wages receive a deduction, Check on percentage.  After all these the first 150,000 baht Remitted is 0 Zero tax.

So effectively the first 210,000 Baht is remitted 0 Zero Tax. 

 

Edited May 25 by J Branche

[dinga]

9 minutes ago, J Branche said:

Also Reference Thailand Revenue Department Order

 

No. P.162/2023 issued 21 November 2023

“The provisions of paragraph one Section 41 shall not apply to assessable income arising before the date 1 January 2024.”

NOT TAX ADVICE, I interpret this as keep Clear, Documentation of Source (Pension, Social Security, Wages, Investment), Proof that this was assessable before 1 Janurary 2024 and the Balance showing the amount assessable Before and After 1 Jan 2024 so there will be little confusion.  No unjustified taxes.

 

 

Don't you just need to have documentation to show the closing balance of all offshore investments as at 31/12/2023??? ie.  aren't all such balances not-accessable.  Agree all investments after that date - and which are the source of transfers to Thailand by tax residents - will need detailed evidence/documentation to support whether assessable or not-assessable

 

Or am I missing something here?