Has A Prenutial/pre-marital Agreement Ruined My Future Relationship?

[twix38]

"It’s you who obviously having doubts with this relationship".

Irrespective of all our other issues, I do expect that the core reason is the above. You have doubts about this bar girl...enough doubt to want to play financially safe and secure.

It is true that were you to succeed in a pre-nup, you would have less concerns and hence possibly work less hard to save it in times of difficulty. Want your cake and eat it too.

I happen to believe your doubts are well placed with a bar girl and think the real problem is not even the pre-nup, but what is starting to become really self apparent. You chose someone who cannot truly be trusted as a life partner, even by the man who loves her (you) and because of this you want to protect yourself. Also, her reaction and refusal, which is also reasonable on grounds of trust etc, could also unfortunately also be due to all the things you fear happening.

Face it. In reality this marriage is already over, if you want to be financially safe and secure.

Why get hung up on marriage now? Why not col down or just have a Thai wedding ceromony and pay a dowry (nothing legal). You are pushing the issue to destruction and maybe you just need to back off and get to know each other better. Time and life will place the answer right in your lap (no pun intended, but what the hel_l anyway - ha ha)

[andreaZ]

I think some people are missing the point that it is a pre-nuptial agreement not a pre-nuptial mandate. If you both can't come to a mutually acceptable agreement before you are married, what is marriage going to be like?

Agreed completely. It’s supposed to protect both parties, not just one, which is why both should have independent legal advice. If thaitang had discussed this issue with his girlfriend beforehand and had a mutually agreed document prepared, rather than simply presenting her with a prenup from his own lawyer and requesting her to sign, he just may have had less problems.

I’d be unhappy, to say the least, if anyone offered me a legal document/contract to sign, whatever the nature, without any input from me. If it was from someone who I had thought was a close friend, well, let’s just say I doubt I would still consider them a friend.

[LaoPo]

my GF is not in that situation. she has all of her family's land in her name. but if we ever do divorce then thai law naturally protects what was hers & what was mine before marriage (not to mention that non-thai's can't own land, i understand that).

You are giving the answer yourself but it's a kind of strange I didn't read nor hear anybody previously in this topic about your point that your GF will ALWAYS keep HER assets/land in Thailand...but at the same time she has problems with your wish to sign a prenuptial agreement where YOU wish to protect YOUR assets in Canada.

Something to think about....

IMHO you would make the biggest mistake in your life if you would NOT have a prenuptial agreement, assuming you do not wish to split 50/50% with HER assets, would it ever come to a divorce...am I correct ?

So, my advise would be: stick to your original plan or don't marry.

Someone wrote : "Besides, if it's true love, it'll never come to divorce correct?"

No: not correct and I disagree with that since most couples marry out of true love but a certain [high] percentage ends up in a divorce, never mind the true love they once experienced and had for each other.

True love sometimes change into true hate or, to a lesser point 'nasty' feelings for one another; apart from that, how come divorces do come around the corner because one of the partners find someone else more...hmmmm...attractive and decide to leave the marriage?

Now, please, don't let anyone tell me here that it does NOT happen.

That's why you need a prenuptial agreement.

LaoPo

[teacup]

I don’t know, perhaps many people have mistaken the”real” true love, with hmm…mayhap “infatuation, mutual advantages, caring, the promise of commitment, etc…and then they get marry. Also a lot of people tend to go into marriage nowadays with the idea that if it doesn't work out there is always a divorce and that isn't a big deal to them. Many of them are selfish little brats who never grew up and do not know how to maintain a relationship.

I truly think when two people really love each other deeply they do put up with things a lot more in a marriage, and don’t have this crazy notion of fairytale ending that they need to be happy all of the time or happily ever after everyday.

Edited July 30, 2007 by teacup

[LaReina]

my GF is not in that situation. she has all of her family's land in her name. but if we ever do divorce then thai law naturally protects what was hers & what was mine before marriage (not to mention that non-thai's can't own land, i understand that). but what if thai law didn't protect her land & non-thai's were allowed to own land. do you not think there would be discussion about protecting that land in the hopefully very unlikely (but there is always a possibility) event of divorce? i would certainly expect there to be.

i wish canadian law viewed pre-marital interests of a person the same way as thai law does but it doesn't. canadian law leaves it up to the individuals to decide what to protect in the event of a divorce by way of a pre-nup.

And therein lies the problem and a possible solution. I am assuming that most posters (with the exception of DM and CG) are from countries whoose laws concerning marriage are a little more fair towards a person who has worked hard prior to marriage.

Even with community property laws, what was yours BEFORE the marriage remains yours after a divorce. What was earned TOGETHER while married is fair game and community property.

These are just logical rights the courts afford most of us, to protect people. In your case, you do not have the courts to protect you, you have to protect yourself. She on the other hand, is protected, and canadian law can not force her to loose what she already has, but can force you.

SO.. solution..

• Marry in Thailand, and never move back to your country. That way, your assests are protected under thai law.
  
• Consult a divorce attorney and find out how the canadian divorce courts view marriage situations where one parties assests are protected by their govt. If by default the Canadian courts automatically rule the same provisions for her citizens before dividing whatever property is owned should a divorce occur.
  
• Find out if she can divorce you in Canada from Thailand, or if like the US, she would need to establish residency.
  
• People with money protect themselves all the time, find out exactly what your choices are in canada (from a divorce lawyer) that does not involve a pre-nup.
  

But on the otherhand.. forget all that I have just written above. That's crazy, that is planning for a divorce when you should be happy planning for your marriage.

If you guys can't compromise on a pre-nup then how will you be able to compromise on anything else later in life? If you NEED to live in Germany and she does not, then what? She stays behind?

IF she gets to canada and feels it is too cold and she misses her family before you have your nest egg inorder then what? you have a long distance marriage?

To all the supporters of the gf's right to refuse the pre-nup. Do you think it is fair that she will enter a marriage with all her assests protected, and thus does not need to work "hard" as someone suggested (towards the OP) to keep the marriage going? While he is left completely vurnerable.

The first MAJOR fight.. will go like this..

I will divorce you and take all your property in Canada.

NOT, because she USED to be a BG, but because she is a female, and that will be her ammunition for life.

And he will be paranoid for their entire marriage.. He will spend the first 5 years wondering if he did the right thing.

[LaReina]

One more thing..

To all the supports of the "no prenup". IF YOU had property that was absolutely protected.. no if's, and's, or but's about it, and a person who also had propety but it was NOT protected wanted to marry you.. then.. honestly speaking, would you STILL feel that it is a sign of mis-trust on their part, to ask you to afford them the same protection which you already have?

Honestly speaking.. would you not feel it is only FAIR to put thier mind at ease?

OR would you feel, you deserve the protection being given you.. and they don't?

[November Rain]

To all the supporters of the gf's right to refuse the pre-nup. Do you think it is fair that she will enter a marriage with all her assests protected, and thus does not need to work "hard" as someone suggested (towards the OP) to keep the marriage going? While he is left completely vurnerable.

The first MAJOR fight.. will go like this..

I will divorce you and take all your property in Canada.

NOT, because she USED to be a BG, but because she is a female, and that will be her ammunition for life.

And he will be paranoid for their entire marriage.. He will spend the first 5 years wondering if he did the right thing.

I wasn't going to say any more on this subject, especially as it seems OP had made up his mind a few posts ago, so (seems to me) everyone's flogging a dead horse, anyway, but I really hope I'm reading this part of your post wrongly, LaReina.

What this seems to be saying to me is "Women will use their legal claim to a man's property against him, because that's in their nature" . If this is what you're saying, my only response to that would be "Do not judge an entire gender by yourself". As I've already said, I've been through it & all I took was half of something jointly owned which I had put into financially. In fact it wasn't even half, because he took advantage of my need for money at that time & gave me a vastly reduced price. So, not all women will do that, it's not in all of our natures.

If I'm wrong in my interpretation, LaReina, I apologise, but could you clarify what you do mean by that statement?

[November Rain]

One more thing..

To all the supports of the "no prenup". IF YOU had property that was absolutely protected.. no if's, and's, or but's about it, and a person who also had propety but it was NOT protected wanted to marry you.. then.. honestly speaking, would you STILL feel that it is a sign of mis-trust on their part, to ask you to afford them the same protection which you already have?

Honestly speaking.. would you not feel it is only FAIR to put thier mind at ease?

OR would you feel, you deserve the protection being given you.. and they don't?

I can only answer this for myself, but if this were my case, he wouldn't need to ask for a pre-nup, because I'd have already suggested that I sign a document stating I had no claim on his property.

[jumnien]

In my opinion, the pre-nupt is not primarily to protect your money and assets. There is a tendency to drift off into self-centered fear and greed in this marriage game. We have to remember that we are all part of an intricate web of social relationships and responsibilities. The pre-nupt most often protects the many people (parents, ex-spouses, children from previous marriages, adopted children, adopted families, employees, charities, etc.) that one's estate and one's business supports in the present or in the future. To enter into financial relationships without a contract or worse yet, with a contract negotiated by governments led by the likes of George Bush, is imprudent. Remember, if you don't initiate an agreement, you are still making an agreement negotiated by someone else.

Do I think people are stupid not to have a pre-nupt. Not at all. I'm just reporting my positive experience.

[TheWalkingMan]

Get a pre-nup... let me rephrase that... Get a pre-nup!

Just out of curiosity, what is she brining into the relationship? I mean is she working now or are you providing 100% support? Can she actually do anything besides clean house? Sorry for the bad questions, but I have heard too many stories of ex-BGs who are unthinking, lazy and cannot do anything while in Thailand and completely lose it when confronted with unfamiliar things.

As others have said before, love can turn nasty and I am sure that many here can relate a story of the one with the most assests being taken to the cleaners.

I view this as insurance that you hope you never need to use as you are in love. However, not having this insurance when you know the possibility is there for you to get "taken" is foolish. Picture this... no pre-nup and wifey meets some less than honorable females who explain in detail the divorce laws. Heaven help you if some of the ladies have stories of how much money they got along with land and property. Now wifey's mind begins to mull over money, money, money... Get a big house back home along with a D-Max truck...

Just explain to her that it is not fair that she could get half of everything from you and you cannot get anything from her Thai based assets in case of a divorce. All you are doing is trying to keep things even and equitable. If she cannot grasp the simple concept of fairness, then you really have a problem and I would suggest that she does not have your interests as a high priority.

How good is her English? Have you had your thoughts translated into Thai?

Anyway, I did not mean to sound rude, but her feeling iffy about signing a pre-nup makes me wonder who she is fighting for.

Stick to your guns and get the pre-nup.

TheWalkingMan

[batami]

Here are some comments from the "for what it is worth department". I ahve been married twice. The first time I was divorced I was taken to the cleaners - lost everything house, cars, etc etc and was stuck with maintenance too. So i was back at the bottom of the ladder again and believe me, I decided that is not where i was ever going to be again. I rebuilt my life and my (modest) wealth and transferred the whole lot into an offshore Trust. Some while later I married a Filipino lady - marry in haste and repent at leisure - so the saying goes. and after three years we were definitely in the separation zone and we split up. She had not worked in those three years; spent frequent trips to Philippines when she was not a college (At my expense) and we were in the Uk when we split up. She thought she was going to land a nice little packet to disappear back to Asia with ..... was she pissed off when she finally understood that actually i had nothing - no assets, no money, no anything (the house was owned by the trust and i rented it) and my pension fund was owned by the Trust. So, she went with the same that she arrived with, save that she had a house and land in the Philippines which she bought in "our" name and which for a short time had a loan serviced from my income (why did i do that - that's another story)

I now live in Thailand, I have a great Thai girlfriend - she is educated and has a good job and has never asked me for money. I have made it clear that I rent my house, and I have a pension - that's as far as it goes. So any divorce would mean diddly squat. Yes I do have assets - still wrapped up in an Trust and when anything happens to me my kids get the lot. However, if things go as well as I hope it is easy for me to make provision for my girlfriend.

Short answer, look seriously at an offshore trust. (PM me if you want further info)

Best of luck

[sbk]

I think some people are missing the point that it is a pre-nuptial agreement not a pre-nuptial mandate. If you both can't come to a mutually acceptable agreement before you are married, what is marriage going to be like?

Agreed completely. It’s supposed to protect both parties, not just one, which is why both should have independent legal advice. If thaitang had discussed this issue with his girlfriend beforehand and had a mutually agreed document prepared, rather than simply presenting her with a prenup from his own lawyer and requesting her to sign, he just may have had less problems.

I’d be unhappy, to say the least, if anyone offered me a legal document/contract to sign, whatever the nature, without any input from me. If it was from someone who I had thought was a close friend, well, let’s just say I doubt I would still consider them a friend.

This is what makes the most sense to me, frankly. Also curious as to whether or not the pre-nup has been translated into Thai? Chances are, she doesn't understand it, doesn't know what it means or says and, wisely so, isn't willing to sign something she doesn't understand.

[trader1]

but to me the solution lies in not marrying someone that I can't trust, not in treating family like business.

A marriage contract is a legal document that in the event of future discord gives monetary rights to both parties. One of those parties may have more to lose financially, so to ensure fairness to both parties there is an extra document pinned to the orginal called a 'pre-nup'. What is the objection.

Edited July 31, 2007 by trader1

[onzestan]

I have been following this thread with great interest, and wasn't sure if I would contribute or not.

Fact is the OP only thought of marriage after he found out she could not get a visa if not married.

Fact is he didn't ask the girl what she thought about a pre-nuptial, but imposed it.

Fact is that he has absolutely no idea what goes on in the mind of Thai rural people.(Whether ex-BG or not)

Fact is we don't know how these 2 people feel about each other and what social influences play a role here.

All this makes me have doubts about the sincerity of the OP in REALLY wanting to marry her for better or for WORSE.

My opinion only and no malice intended.

Onzestan

[eek]

Stick to your guns!

You worked hard and no point in risking.

If she loves you she should come round and understand the reasons why.

Dont relent on this. You may have a wonderful long marriage together, but IF something goes wrong, you dont want to lose all you worked hard for.

[thaitang]

Fact is the OP only thought of marriage after he found out she could not get a visa if not married.

i thought i had mentioned in my original post that i asked my GF to marry me after i returned home to canada after 18 months living with my GF in LOS. sure that was after the first time she was refused a tourist visa to come back home with me, while i was still living with her in LOS.

we actually applied for another tourist visa for her to visit me back home here in canada after we were already making the plans to marry. i actually wanted my GF to meet my family & friends & make the marriage announcement while she was here with me. it would also be an opportunity for the GF to give being in canada a bit of a test ride.

when that second app for a tourist visa was refused i figured that our next move would be after we marry & then apply for her PR to canada so she could finally come visit me & hopefully stay if it suited her. i was so hoping we would get that opportunity.

Fact is he didn't ask the girl what she thought about a pre-nuptial, but imposed it.

well i didn't think i had actually imposed it. i got the pre-nup drawn up, sent it to my GF & asked her to take it to a local thai lawyer/notary (at my cost as i send her regular monetary imbursements) to have it completely explained & give the GF the opportunity to ask whatever questions she might have. i was open to working the agreement with any input my GF might have. unfortunately she has clammed right up & basically has refused to discuss even the possibility of such an agreement.

Fact is that he has absolutely no idea what generally goes on in the mind of Thai rural people.(Whether ex-BG or not)

truth be told, i honestly don't know what goes on in the minds of Thai rural people. although i was pretty sure i had a pulse on what made the GF tick (and vice versa). i admit i totally mis-read her reaction to a pre-nup.

just my thoughts on your opinions. no malice taken.

tt

[meow_lek]

tt,

Your gf had been working in an industry that subverts the dynamics of relationships into transactions. Maybe she sees this pre-nup along those lines too. For you it's easy to find other girlfriends/wives even when you're old and unattractive. How will she fare if you divorced and she's the uneducated, rural lady past her prime in beauty? Your options are much wider than hers. I don't blame her how she feels. (This may sound a little sexist but I think it's a reality)

The post on offshore assets was spot on. Cyphon your assets offshore - that's your pre-nup to yourself. Don't invest into the relationship what you can't afford to lose.

I have also been 'taken to the cleaners' in a defacto relationship. Marriage papers or not - doesn't matter when it comes down to liability (and naiviety).

Finally use some future hindsight for your heart as well as your bank balance.

You can never make the wrong decision. Good luck

meow

[bina]

lots of people assume that people in other countries/cultures know or understand legal rights and priveleges that to european/anglos are par for the course:

living in israel fo rthe past 21 years i never even knew what a pre nuptial was; now it is all the rage in young couples or in remarried couples but is considered an 'american' thing to do....

my 'new' thai husband hasnt a clue, i have no assets but when i mentioned making a sort of pre nup document to protect me and him (he's in the foreign country at the moment, with me, so he needs the 'protection' more than i do) he couldnt understand why;

the same goes for owning your own bank account ( i never did in jprevious marriage and lost all, and now have created one w/o husband along with joint account with him. he went ballistic when he first heard that i'd made a single account for me, but now understands the reasoning behind it but it took lots of explanation that it wasnt cause i didnt love him but due to legal laws in this country that would mean i would have no access to the joint account if he were to die as he is a foreign national and those are the legalities here.... no cheap loopholes, only lawyer ones);

making wills can also be seen as 'taboo' among partners from different cultures; like a bad luck type thing....not neccessarily because the partner doesnt love his/her spouse or wants to 'take him/her for a ride'...

the point is not to jump to conclusions based on the way you see things but to try to get in to the other person's head to see what he/she is imagining or thinking

bina

israel

[canadiangirl]

l

the point is not to jump to conclusions based on the way you see things but to try to get in to the other person's head to see what he/she is imagining or thinking

bina

israel

Bina,

you speak wise words. Also from meow_lek, talking about how your girlfriend might be quite sick of a world that subverts human relationships into transactions (very insightful!) and might see the pre-nup as an extension of that.

To the OP:

All but the richest of my Thai friends seem fairly adverse to advance planning. I don't know too much first-hand about rural people, but from what I've read, what we would consider "preventing future problems " they see as basically "asking for it" from the universe -- thinking about bad things making them happen. So you can guess how a pre-nup might come across.

If you think you might still have a future together, perhaps back off about the pre-nup for now, and think of a more "palatable" way to present it later -- maybe discuss the terms together and get something drafted together in both Thai and English instead of presenting it as a done deal in English.

You seem like a very caring and considerate person towards your girlfriend, so I don't think you were intending to freak her out, but I think that being presented with a legal document, all drafted up in a language you don't speak very well, would be daunting to the staunchest among us!

Edited July 31, 2007 by canadiangirl

[LaReina]

To all the supporters of the gf's right to refuse the pre-nup. Do you think it is fair that she will enter a marriage with all her assests protected, and thus does not need to work "hard" as someone suggested (towards the OP) to keep the marriage going? While he is left completely vurnerable.

The first MAJOR fight.. will go like this..

I will divorce you and take all your property in Canada.

NOT, because she USED to be a BG, but because she is a female, and that will be her ammunition for life.

And he will be paranoid for their entire marriage.. He will spend the first 5 years wondering if he did the right thing.

I wasn't going to say any more on this subject, especially as it seems OP had made up his mind a few posts ago, so (seems to me) everyone's flogging a dead horse, anyway, but I really hope I'm reading this part of your post wrongly, LaReina.

What this seems to be saying to me is "Women will use their legal claim to a man's property against him, because that's in their nature" . If this is what you're saying, my only response to that would be "Do not judge an entire gender by yourself". As I've already said, I've been through it & all I took was half of something jointly owned which I had put into financially. In fact it wasn't even half, because he took advantage of my need for money at that time & gave me a vastly reduced price. So, not all women will do that, it's not in all of our natures.

If I'm wrong in my interpretation, LaReina, I apologise, but could you clarify what you do mean by that statement?

I apologise, and I stand corrected, and thank you for pointing that out. That was a generalised statment and it should not have been.

[britmaveric]

(at my cost as i send her regular monetary imbursements)

Why do you send her money? Last time I checked this isnt necessary for a bf/gf relationship, doesnt she have a job?

[DamianMavis]

As the saying goes, we leave our brains at the airport.

We do things in this country that we wouldnt do back home... men is so stoopid.

Damian

[thaitang]

Why do you send her money? Last time I checked this isnt necessary for a bf/gf relationship, doesnt she have a job?

ouch, that sounds so sinister.

the GF does indeed have a job working in a salon making 6k baht + tips per month. not a great deal & i don't enjoy thinking of her making due on that alone. what i send to her is not very much in the end to me but i think it means a lot to her.

i have send the GF money about every couple of months since i returned home because some of it is for her to pamper herself. i have also asked her to pick up various items & send them to me (dvd movies/tv show series, software, some food items i have really come to love but can't find here at home & some other odds & ends). i started sending her money because when we were going for her travel visa to canada the second time & i was here at home i thought it would be a good idea to have some extra dosh in her bank that she could show during her app process. the money was then going to be used to buy her airline ticket.

tt

[LaoPo]

Why do you send her money? Last time I checked this isnt necessary for a bf/gf relationship, doesnt she have a job?

ouch, that sounds so sinister.

the GF does indeed have a job working in a salon making 6k baht + tips per month. not a great deal & i don't enjoy thinking of her making due on that alone. what i send to her is not very much in the end to me but i think it means a lot to her.

i have send the GF money about every couple of months since i returned home because some of it is for her to pamper herself. i have also asked her to pick up various items & send them to me (dvd movies/tv show series, software, some food items i have really come to love but can't find here at home & some other odds & ends). i started sending her money because when we were going for her travel visa to canada the second time & i was here at home i thought it would be a good idea to have some extra dosh in her bank that she could show during her app process. the money was then going to be used to buy her airline ticket.

tt

Question:

Why was her tourist visa denied ?

I understood she has land in her name, a job and maybe a house...? That would be enough reason for most countries to grant a visa.

So, what was/were the reasons(s) ?

And, what's the situation with your proposal to the prenup ?

LaoPo

[thaitang]

Why was her tourist visa denied ?

I understood she has land in her name, a job and maybe a house...? That would be enough reason for most countries to grant a visa.

believe it or not she was denied the visa because i provided too much information (silly me i thought the more info the better). they decided because we had an established romantic relationship that that is a big reason for her to not want to return back to thailand. they told her best course of action was the PR route because we were already far into a relationship. you don't have to tell me, i know it is crazy but when i shared this crazy refusal/outcome at the time on a canadian immigration forum, it turns out that is actually normal for canada to refuse tourist visa in such cases.

And, what's the situation with your proposal to the prenup ?

well i am really doing my best to give her some time & space. i always feel like i am pretty aggressive at whatever i do & sometimes i need to turn it down a notch or two & handle things with a little more delicately (i can can be the bull in a china shop at times). i talked to her about adding in some compensation into the pre-nup for her in the event that the marriage ever hits the rocks. she is still pretty upset thinking i am treating the marriage as a business deal.

so i really believe we might have gone beyond a point of no return. i haven't totally given up but it doesn't feel too promising. i think even if she agrees to the pre-nup now that i know how dead-set against the idea of it she is/was & a compromise that big makes me wonder how it might affect our relationship (tainted?).

tt

[LaoPo]

i think even if she agrees to the pre-nup now that i know how dead-set against the idea of it she is/was & a compromise that big makes me wonder how it might affect our relationship (tainted?).

Hmmm...ask her what she thinks of the idea to sell her land for xx money and put it in a bank account.

You put up the same money and tell her, OK, we split 50/50% in a joint account.

Ask her if she would feel comfortable with that.

Wait and see what she says...

LaoPo

[OxfordWill]

And pick yourself up a copy of "Thailand Fever" (or get your GF to buy it and send to you) I think the full title is WGood medicine for Thailand Fever" subtitle something like "A roadmap for Thai/Western couples" and read it from cover to cover before doing anything else. Might be able to find it on amazon. Short book easy to read.

[TheWalkingMan]

i think even if she agrees to the pre-nup now that i know how dead-set against the idea of it she is/was & a compromise that big makes me wonder how it might affect our relationship (tainted?).

Hmmm...ask her what she thinks of the idea to sell her land for xx money and put it in a bank account.

You put up the same money and tell her, OK, we split 50/50% in a joint account.

Ask her if she would feel comfortable with that.

Wait and see what she says...

LaoPo

I was thinking of something similar to that. Have her sell the land, stick the money in the bank and if she leaves you... you can keep half as compensation for a broken heart. Now that would go over like a lead balloon.

And there is your test, is she willing to put her assets on the line to be with you. If not... well does anyone here really need to spell it out?

Cheers,

TheWalkingMan

[November Rain]

And pick yourself up a copy of "Thailand Fever" (or get your GF to buy it and send to you) I think the full title is WGood medicine for Thailand Fever" subtitle something like "A roadmap for Thai/Western couples" and read it from cover to cover before doing anything else. Might be able to find it on amazon. Short book easy to read.

Now, that's one of the best suggestions I've seen on this thread!

[gzu88bv]

what's the problem?

Have a Thai wedding ceromony ONLY. Not legal and important to Thaia's and dowry payment due. No pre-nup needed

NEVER marry legally without pre-nup as her refusal says a lot about her character and possibly sincerity and not yours.I think you may well regret a legal marriage without one down the road and feel absolutely gutted.

It's a thai ceromony or tell her to go and find another partner. The future grief and this episode of refusal to haunt your future together, if you don't do a pre-nup, is your warning

I like this post.

And you can also ask yourself, what does your love bring to the table? If a marriage is done the right way, a pre-nup is just the right thing to do nowadays.