CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Somewhat OT but interesting. Let me say at the outset that I am a staunch EV supporter, and for my next car purchase, I am considering a Neta or Ora. However, I hope the manufacturers won't make the same marketing mistakes they made in Australia. https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/effectively-worthless-ev-bubble-bursts/news-story/f9337c5dc80ab4520ee253f692f137c5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UWEB Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Sky News Australia is the same as Fox News in the US, so what else you are expecting from them. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 Could it be the reaction to BYD entering the market? The only discount they offered and are currently offering is on last year's model Atto 3 to clear stock for MY2024. Clearly biased and appallingly written article btw. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 26 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: Somewhat OT but interesting. Let me say at the outset that I am a staunch EV supporter, and for my next car purchase, I am considering a Neta or Ora. However, I hope the manufacturers won't make the same marketing mistakes they made in Australia. https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/effectively-worthless-ev-bubble-bursts/news-story/f9337c5dc80ab4520ee253f692f137c5 If you can run to it, the ORA Good Cat is a much better car than the Neta V (which is pretty good btw). I would also look at the MG4, they are pretty cheap now and drive better than the other two. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 19 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: ORA Good Cat Ora is my second choice and I am hoping (dreaming) that Ora's Punk Cat EV (a VW Beetle Clone) will be made available in LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: Clearly biased and appallingly written article "Cars have always been money pits" and (if true) "A brand new Tesla Model Y is now $11,400 cheaper. The Peugeot e2008 has been given a massive cut from $63,000 to $39,990. On the lower end of the market, a GWM Ora is down 20 per cent to $35,990." sounds pretty factual and alarming to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 Just now, CharlesHolzhauer said: "Cars have always been money pits" and (if true) "A brand new Tesla Model Y is now $11,400 cheaper. The Peugeot e2008 has been given a massive cut from $63,000 to $39,990. On the lower end of the market, a GWM Ora is down 20 per cent to $35,990." sounds pretty factual and alarming to me. All cars are money pits with the exception of some limited supply exotica. Yet the one to watch (BYD) aren't discounting their cars. I suspect the other automakers discounts are a reaction to BYD's pricing. Tesla has been slashing their prices for over a year now, the Peugeot price cut clearly means it wasn't selling, it's an inferior car to the Atto 3 standard range with a much lower output motor and is only $6,000 more for the MY2023 version after Peugeot's price adjustment. Clearly, Peugeot got the pricing wrong. I suspect once the stock is gone, that's it. It's now priced on a par with the (probably) superior MG4. The article is wrong to say the EV market is on its arse when the largest EV automaker is not discounting and it's wrong to say Australia is heavily discounting EV's when what we are seeing is (probably) a market adjustment due to BYD aggressive pricing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 BYD has been making significant strides in the Australian market. Here’s a summary of their recent sales performance and ambitious goals: In 2023, BYD sold 12,438 vehicles in Australia Their intention is to double that number to 25,000 in 2024 Currently, they are 113% up on sales compared to the previous year The EV bubble has most definitely not burst in Australia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 I really like to see how the EV market will develop over the next decade or so. Who would want to buy i.e. a 10 year old vehicle which needs a new battery when the battery costs (almost?) as much as a new vehicle? I watch a YouTube channel where a guy restores old BMWs. Some of them are 30 years old and he restores them to a condition similar to new. Can you imagine that with any EV? No. Best case you can make it look like it is new and then park it and never touch it again. 2 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 10 year old cars depreciate to a fraction of their new cost. I think with EV cars it will not just be down to condition, it will be down to the SoH (State of Health) of the battery pack, buyers will want to know that figure, and the price will be set accordingly. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Can you imagine that with any EV? Actually, I can. But any speculation is only as good as one's belief in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 4 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: Actually, I can. But any speculation is only as good as one's belief in it. Does any of the EVs now have a battery which the manufacturer claims will be good for 10 years or more? If the repair cost (buying a new battery because they can't be repaired) is more than the vehicle's value, then it just doesn't make any sense to buy the new battery. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 Most EV batteries are expected to last 20 years, they are guaranteed typically 8, just like most ICE engines are guaranteed 3 years. 1 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Does any of the EVs now have a battery which the manufacturer claims will be good for 10 years or more? If the repair cost (buying a new battery because they can't be repaired) is more than the vehicle's value, then it just doesn't make any sense to buy the new battery. It seems that this is not a real issue for the makers of EVs and their battery manufacturers (see comment from JBChiangRai). The fact is that battery technology is progressing rapidly. Batteries will likely become cheaper, and a completely different element might emerge, eliminating the need for rare earth or other scarce and expensive elements. New battery modules could replace the 'old' types. Technology doesn't stop here, and rest assured, the battery manufacturers are fully aware of your and others' concerns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lee65 Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 46 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Can you imagine that with any EV? Of course not. For one thing the computer tech - software and hardware - will have been completely changed and non-restorable. There's really no point in trying to discuss the obvious with these EV nutjobs. 3 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: It seems that this is not a real issue for the makers of EVs and their battery manufacturers (see comment from JBChiangRai). The fact is that battery technology is progressing rapidly. Batteries will likely become cheaper, and a completely different element might emerge, eliminating the need for rare earth or other scarce and expensive elements. New battery modules could replace the 'old' types. Technology doesn't stop here, and rest assured, the battery manufacturers are fully aware of your and others' concerns. Manufacturers want to sell more. And more. They don't want things which last forever. Sure, new technology will replace old technology - in new vehicles. And that makes the old vehicles even more obsolete. There are very few examples where devices with old technology are adapted to work with new technology. Old vehicles with old carburetors still work - and are relatively easy to repair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: Most EV batteries are expected to last 20 years, they are guaranteed typically 8, just like most ICE engines are guaranteed 3 years. Who expects batteries to last 20 years? And who expects that combustion engines fail after 3 years? Greta? 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post In the jungle Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 With very rare exceptions, such as the original Tesla Roadster, I cannot see there ever being classic EVs. EVs are throw away cars. 1 1 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post connda Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 If I purchase in EV I'll purchase the most cost effective make and model. Which means I'll probably be purchasing a Chinese BYD. Why? The Chinese are going to beat the pants off of the Western EV technology as well as being able to manufacture them for less money therefore providing consumers with a significant discount compared to Western models. "We hate the Chinese commies and their c**p products. Grrrr!" Yeah - I know. But I have no problems with either the Chinese or their products. So - feel free to pay a premium in order to "show them Chinese commies a thing or two." 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said: All cars are money pits with the exception of some limited supply exotica. I paid the Thai equivalent of $10K from my car. It gets over 50+ mph. A typical trip to the dealer for the check-up and oil changes cost between 2K to 4K THB. What you should have said is, "Cars are status symbols and the most status conscious consumers pour their hard earned cash into their status symbol's money pit." There - fixed it! Much more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post connda Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 11 minutes ago, In the jungle said: With very rare exceptions, such as the original Tesla Roadster, I cannot see there ever being classic EVs. EVs are throw away cars. A massive battery on wheels. The primary cost of the EV - the battery. Once the battery is shot. Good-bye EV. Built-in obsolescence extraordinaire. "But they will save the polar ice caps!" Of course they will. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Lee65 said: There's really no point in trying to discuss the obvious with these EV nutjobs. Many thanks for sparing us. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said: Who expects batteries to last 20 years? And who expects that combustion engines fail after 3 years? Greta? Your most constructive and pertinent questions have been duly noted. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, In the jungle said: With very rare exceptions, such as the original Tesla Roadster, I cannot see there ever being classic EVs. EVs are throw away cars. Your sentimentality seems to be getting the better of you. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CharlesHolzhauer Posted June 2 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 2 55 minutes ago, connda said: There - fixed it! 52 minutes ago, connda said: Of course they will. 1 hour ago, connda said: Yeah - I know. I’m glad you found your own answers. You’re so clever, and I’m sure other posters reading this are in awe. Well done. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted June 2 Popular Post Share Posted June 2 43 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: Many thanks for sparing us. 41 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: Your most constructive and pertinent questions have been duly noted. 40 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: Your sentimentality seems to be getting the better of you. 38 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said: I’m glad you found your own answers. You’re so clever, and I’m sure other posters reading this are in awe. Well done. Good that we have contributors like you with well researched answers and statements. 😉 That's the beauty for those EV sellers. Many of their buyers are those do-gooders who want to be seen as the smart green people who save the world. But somehow their longing to be one of the "look, I am the good guy" people is higher than their capacity to see reality. 1 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandersnatch Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 The usual negative fiction from the EV haters, so how about some facts for balance Several AN members, including myself, bought the BYD Seal when it was launched in Thailand last year. It comes with 8 years of 100% free servicing (parts and labour) 8 years warranty on the car and battery (guaranteed to not fall below 70% capacity) I chose the BYD Seal over the Tesla model 3 for the following reasons: It was considerably cheaper, it comes with LiFePO4 across the range which is far safer battery chemistry and has a far longer cycle life at the expense of energy density, it comes with bi-directional charging. As I am off-grid (no meter) I use the Seal for backup power for the house. If in 8 years time the battery capacity has really dropped by 30% (unlikely as that would mean BYD would have had to fork out for many batteries that had fallen below 70%) I would still have nearly 5 Tesla Power-walls of backup energy storage. Meaning the seal would be worth far more than the average 8 year old car just in terms of energy storage alone. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Most EV batteries are expected to last 20 years, they are guaranteed typically 8, just like most ICE engines are guaranteed 3 years. factory car warranty lifespan ranges from 3 years to 10 years depending on Brand and country Here in Thailand Ford offer 10 year warranty on its powertrain ( engine and transmission guaranteed for 10 years or 150,000 km) In the UK some brands offer 7 year warranties on all their cars MG UK for example offer 7 year warranty while other countries only get 4 year warranty All Toyota and Lexus models UK are covered by a three-year/100,000-mile warranty. Though that isn’t too much to scream home about, there is an extra sweetener. A scheme introduced in 2021 can see that warranty boosted with each service. Toyota’s new ‘Relax’ warranty sees you given another year of coverage every time you have your car serviced at an authorised dealer. This is valid for up to 10 years from your car’s date of manufacture and covers cars already sold by the manufacturer if you’re in the used market. https://www.carwow.co.uk/best/cars-with-good-warranties-0170 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch boy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 5 hours ago, UWEB said: Sky News Australia is the same as Fox News in the US, so what else you are expecting from them. Fox news is watched by more people than CNN, MSNBC or any other news outlet, so what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch boy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Interesting article, and so very true but the global alarmists will keep buying them and keep losing money. So very funny. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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