Queer Planet documentary ruffles homophobe's feathers

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Thanks for the info. I'll watch out for it. The topic is nothing new. Biological Exuberance by Bagemihl was published 25 years ago. It was a core university text in animal behaviour courses, and it cited hundreds of studies going back decades. Back then, the main theory was that there were higher levels of homosexuality in species with high-need offspring, with homosexual adults 'nannying' or adopting the offspring of others to increase overall species survival. But then Black Swans also have a surrogacy system, and male-male pairs are by far the most successful at raising offspring, so that might have changed over time. I'm interested to see what the current theories are. 

True its nothing new.

[Baht Simpson]

1 hour ago, Keep Right said:

I find it interesting that some people blame the "right wing" for all their hostility. This hostility goes against the very idea of accepting the homosexual lifestyle. I would like to think we have the freedom to accept homosexuality but also not accept it. This is true freedom whether it be the "right wing" or the left wing.

It depends on what form that non-acceptance takes. Too often it leads to  inequality, discrimination and worse. 

 

And for the nth time homosexuality is not  a lifestyle, it's a sexual orientation like heterosexuality.  
 

I think there's little doubt that the right-wing are predominately the main users of anti-LGBT rhetoric,. 

Edited June 8 by Baht Simpson

[Baht Simpson]

I actually have mixed feelings about this. It's true that showing that same sex attraction is seen in the wild is a good counter-argument to those that say it isn't. However, we are not wild animals. 

 

David Hume, the moral philosopher, whom I very much admire in other respects, opined that men who were attracted to each other were no better than beasts in the field and applauded two men stoned in the stocks, one who died. Clearly this is absurd and he was criticised for his views, probably driven by his religion.

 

I have no doubt that homosexuality is purely natural, but the fact that wild animals have same-sex attraction is to my mind irrelevant. 

[gamb00ler]

34 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

I have no doubt that homosexuality is purely natural, but the fact that wild animals have same-sex attraction is to my mind irrelevant.

In many species there is a very strong mother-offspring bond.  I suppose you also consider that irrelevant.

I have no idea what these emojis/characters mean, but they all were displayed when I searched for "odd".

౸౻𑢱౺

[Baht Simpson]

4 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

In many species there is a very strong mother-offspring bond.  I suppose you also consider that irrelevant.

I have no idea what these emojis/characters mean, but they all were displayed when I searched for "odd".

౸౻𑢱౺

Well, some animals eat and/or kill their young. Just because that's occurs in nature it's not a good argument for humans to do it. Do you see my point?

 

Not sure what your second sentence means.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Baht Simpson said:

I have no doubt that homosexuality is purely natural, but the fact that wild animals have same-sex attraction is to my mind irrelevant. 

 

16 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Well, some animals eat and/or kill their young. Just because that's occurs in nature it's not a good argument for humans to do it. Do you see my point?

 

Not sure what your second sentence means.

I hope you realize that the species with higher levels of brain function, and mammalian are much more likely to have characteristics in common with homo sapiens than lower order life forms.  To me that means that observations of same sex relationships in higher functioning animals implies that such relationships are based on physical characteristics.  Since these similar actions occur in animals that are "closer" to humans on the tree of evolution I think it's rather slipshod logic to say it's irrelevant.

Edited June 8 by gamb00ler

[Baht Simpson]

15 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I think its rather slipshod logic to say it's irrelevant.

I think it's entirely irrelevant. If it was subsequently found that animals didn't actually have same-sex attractions would that invalidate homosexuality in humans? Of course not. That's my point. We shouldn't have to justify what we are with animal behaviour. It justs arms the anti crowd.

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

I think it's entirely irrelevant. If it was subsequently found that animals didn't actually have same-sex attractions would that invalidate homosexuality in humans? Of course not. That's my point. We shouldn't have to justify what we are with animal behaviour. It justs arms the anti crowd.

Extremely irrelevant, as who the hell cares.  I do find it strange, that it's used to justify whoever's lifestyle by comparing.    It must by natural, it must be normal ... no sh!t.

 

People enjoy same or bi sex, then that's entirely normal for them.   Other people that don't, well, that's entirely normal for them.   

 

It's the constant "look at me", "this  is why",   part that is annoying to me.  Myself and every gay or bi person I know thinks it's embarrassing also.  STFU and just live your life ... nobody cares.

[Jingthing]

58 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

I think it's entirely irrelevant. If it was subsequently found that animals didn't actually have same-sex attractions would that invalidate homosexuality in humans? Of course not. That's my point. We shouldn't have to justify what we are with animal behaviour. It justs arms the anti crowd.

You don't get it.

Anything and everything arms the bigots.

They don't need any excuse.

Their bigotry is irrational.

 

Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism
and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to
dehumanize a large group of people, to deny
their humanity, their dignity and personhood.

Coretta Scott King

Edited June 8 by Jingthing

[Baht Simpson]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You don't get it.

Anything and everything arms the bigots.

They don't need any excuse.

Their bigotry is irrational.

 

Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism
and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to
dehumanize a large group of people, to deny
their humanity, their dignity and personhood.

Coretta Scott King

I'm sorry but I'm not going to live my life trying to justify what I am to other people. I'm not going to try to prove that animals do the same as me. I'm not going to try to prove there's a "gay gene" so that I can show that it's a natural phenomenon. I'm not going to try to prove whether or not  God loves gays when it says something derogatory in the Bible. I couldn't care less about arguing the toss about my sexuality with those that oppose it. As you say, it never ends, so why engage with bigots on these issues. You just go round in circles.

 

Let's stick to the real issues of representation, acceptance, diversity, visibility and most of all, equality, especially this month. 

 

As I said previously I agree that the counter-argument to the 'not natural' crowd is welcome but my personal opinion is that validating anyone's sexual orientation isn't necessary and we shouldn't entertain anyone that wants to. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

I'm sorry but I'm not going to live my life trying to justify what I am to other people. I'm not going to try to prove that animals do the same as me. I'm not going to try to prove there's a "gay gene" so that I can show that it's a natural phenomenon. I'm not going to try to prove whether or not  God loves gays when it says something derogatory in the Bible. I couldn't care less about arguing the toss about my sexuality with those that oppose it. As you say, it never ends, so why engage with bigots on these issues. You just go round in circles.

 

Let's stick to the real issues of representation, acceptance, diversity, visibility and most of all, equality, especially this month. 

 

As I said previously I agree that the counter-argument to the 'not natural' crowd is welcome but my personal opinion is that validating anyone's sexual orientation isn't necessary and we shouldn't entertain anyone that wants to. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not suggesting that gay people do anything of that kind.

[Baht Simpson]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not suggesting that gay people do anything of that kind.

All good then. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Baht Simpson said:

All good then. 

 

 

Yes but it's extremely annoying that here on the gay forum vile homophobes always come on to heckle and suggest we need to justify our existence to them.

Imagine if bigots like that always did that on a racial minority forum.

That wouldn't be OK.

Why is it OK to happen on the gay forum?

 

Edited June 8 by Jingthing

[KhunLA]

Playing 'devil's advocate', as stated, only watched part of the trailer.   And get the gist, homo & bisexual a thing in the animal world, so normal, and so should be considered normal in the human world.  No argument from me, as consenting adults can do what ever they wish with their bodies ... I do, and some people think I'm nuts.

 

Curious though, did the doc touch on (doubtful), the incest in the animal world?  How about inbreeding ?

 

How about the raping of animals by same ? Along with gang raping, as seen that myself with dogs.

 

Or the adults killing their young, so no competition later ?

 

All quite normal in the animal world.   Or maybe the spiders & praying mantis that kill their partners after mating.  

 

Good defense if arrested for rape or murder in the human world 

Surely a not guilty or acquittal in court.

 

Cherry picking to fit the narrative ... never really work in real life.

[jonesthepost]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not a lifestyle. 

Of course people are free to be ignorant bigots.

POT  KETTLE 

 

[Baht Simpson]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Playing 'devil's advocate', as stated, only watched part of the trailer.   And get the gist, homo & bisexual a thing in the animal world, so normal, and so should be considered normal in the human world.  No argument from me, as consenting adults can do what ever they wish with their bodies ... I do, and some people think I'm nuts.

 

Curious though, did the doc touch on (doubtful), the incest in the animal world?  How about inbreeding ?

 

How about the raping of animals by same ? Along with gang raping, as seen that myself with dogs.

 

Or the adults killing their young, so no competition later ?

 

All quite normal in the animal world.   Or maybe the spiders & praying mantis that kill their partners after mating.  

 

Good defense if arrested for rape or murder in the human world 

Surely a not guilty or acquittal in court.

 

Cherry picking to fit the narrative ... never really work in real life.

You're pretty much proving my point.

[Baht Simpson]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes but it's extremely annoying that here on the gay forum vile homophobes always come on to heckle and suggest we need to justify our existence to them.

Imagine if bigots like that always did that on a racial minority forum.

That wouldn't be OK.

Why is it OK to happen on the gay forum?

 

Who knows why these people do what they do. They seem to get a kick out of it. I'm not so worried about the haters, they're easily dismissed. It's the ones that  promulgate inaccuracies that push my buttons. But again they seem to have old fashioned, entrenched views that won't be shaken: the comfort of feeling superior. 

 

Oh, and the ones with "gay friends" who agree with every word that leaves their mouths. 🙂  As if that matters. It's usually the same names.

 

Happy Pride to the lovers and a big raspberry to the haters.

 

Edited June 9 by Baht Simpson

[susanlea]

On 6/8/2024 at 6:29 PM, Jingthing said:

I thought it was worthy because the ignorant right wing backlash is major news.

If you don’t feel welcome to exit the topic.

Never heard anything. You must go looking for haters. Most don't care. Where are the haters located? In another country right?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Never heard anything. You must go looking for haters. Most don't care. Where are the haters located? In another country right?

We discuss international gay related topics here. Not limited to Thailand.

 

Here you go again:

 

New ‘Queer Planet’ Documentary Is Making Conservatives Lose It | Them

[Juana Tenderloin]

Troll post removed.