Putin Promises 'Immediate' Peace if Ukraine Drops NATO Bid and Cedes Occupied Territories

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

In that poorly written short article by Oleg Dunda who is a member of Ukraine’s parliament he even mispells him name which is shoddy,shoddy,shoddy.When I see howlers like that then I am not minded to dig any deeper. Any academic that doesn't toe the party line will find themsleves subject to withering attacks from the estblishment. Just watch my Andrew Marr/Chomsky video posted upthread. Once they have been effectively cancelled by the MSN then some find themslves on more fringey dubious channels as Professors with large egos (most of them do have from personal experience) who are just happy to get their opinions out there. From what I see, he is simply someone speaking on conscience, courage and incorruptible integrity, a rare quality among scholars of his calibre these days, who are mostly slaves to their government, university or think tank masters funding their careers. He has FO money and a stellar previous reputation so he can afford that luxury.

 

Thankfully we still have Professor Mearsheimer as well I'm sure Oled will have a pop at him soon enough. Many moons ago I sourced a Hill video which was leapt on by Sir Brian as a conspiracy site as a gotcha moment (the you tube channel) and then I said it was the part of the Hill and he went quiet. He maybe right or they are desperate for money and take paid inserts from think tanks and their ilk.

 

https://www.youtube.com/@thehill/videos

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Dunda

 

In 1999, he graduated from the Dnipropetrovsk Technical School of Welding and Electronics (programmer-systems engineer). His diploma thesis (practical) was the development of software for the reliability calculation of electronic devices.[2]

In 2001, he graduated from the State Institute for Advanced Training and Retraining of Management and Specialists of the Metallurgical Complex (Dnipro) with a degree in Finance. His diploma thesis was the development of financial instruments for managing non-performing loans of a commercial bank.[2]

 

 

There literally dozens of articles on Sachs being one of Putins idiot apologists, he's even appeared on Russian TV bestowing his apologist rants. Here's one more and I am not insecure enough to have to make an enlarged post on it.

 

Putin’s American Cheerleaders

How Jeffrey Sachs, Mark Episkopos and Dimitri Simes contribute to the Russian propaganda effort.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/putin-russia-war-ukraine-solovyov-jeffrey-sachs-columbia-university-mark-episkopos-center-national-interest-dimitri-simes-11673017425

https://archive.ph/WRODG

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

There literally dozens of articles on Sachs being one of Putins idiot apologists, he's even appeared on Russian TV bestowing his apologist rants. Here's one more and I am not insecure enough to have to make an enlarged post on it.

 

Putin’s American Cheerleaders

How Jeffrey Sachs, Mark Episkopos and Dimitri Simes contribute to the Russian propaganda effort.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/putin-russia-war-ukraine-solovyov-jeffrey-sachs-columbia-university-mark-episkopos-center-national-interest-dimitri-simes-11673017425

https://archive.ph/WRODG

Another Atlantic Council member - they must have had a meeting of "what should we do with these turbulent priests" .This short enough ?

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/19/independent-think-tank-honors-african-dictator-as-global-citizen-ali-bongo-gabon/

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Another Atlantic Council member - they must have had a meeting of "what should we do with these turbulent priests" .This short enough ?

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/19/independent-think-tank-honors-african-dictator-as-global-citizen-ali-bongo-gabon/

Why bother starting a debate if you have to immediately go off topic?

 

Jeffrey Sachs spreads Beijing, Kremlin propaganda in Taipei

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/4961765

 

Edited June 20 by Bkk Brian

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why bother starting a debate if you have to immediately go off topic?

 

Jeffrey Sachs spreads Beijing, Kremlin propaganda in Taipei

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/4961765

 

Because you started the shoot the messenger spat. We can all trade google link for link.Enough. Please do your Chomsky homework and then get back to me.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Because you started the shoot the messenger spat. We can all trade google link for link.Enough. Please do your Chomsky homework and then get back to me.

I responded to connda on Sachs, then you jumped in, try again.

[Yellowtail]

On 6/18/2024 at 9:14 PM, beautifulthailand99 said:

This is brilliant the single most important interview for people to see to understand how the individuals involved in a conspiracy don't even realise they're involved because it is systemic - even though their intentions are good - and Marr is not a bad person. He's just the person who's sitting in that seat because he believes what he does - and he has his arris handed to him on a plate.

 

"If you’re interested in facts, I’ll tell you what they are and even give you sources”

"Blundering efforts to do good"

 

 

 

Would you please provide a synopsis, and outline what position you are wanting to support with this? 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I responded to connda on Sachs, then you jumped in, try again.

I refer the Right Honourable Member for Bankok South to my previous answer.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I refer the Right Honourable Member for Bankok South to my previous answer.

Go away troll

[beautifulthailand99]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Would you please provide a synopsis, and outline what position you are wanting to support with this? 

It was in reply to the post by Jas- I could spend an inordinate amount of time writing my thesis but it would probably be deleted as an off-topic "rant" and I'm busy in the UK for the next couple of weeks so you will be thankfully spared my deliberations which would have been constructed about manufacturing consent and would be seriously off topic. So I'll swerve if you don't mind.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

Edited June 20 by beautifulthailand99

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It was in reply to the post by Jas- I could spend an inordinate amount of time writing my thesis but it would probably be deleted as an off-topic "rant" and I'm busy in the UK for the next couple of weeks so you will be thanfully spared my deliberations.

If you don't know, just say you don't know. No shame in that. 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

If you don't know, just say you don't know. No shame in that. 

I didn't say or mean that. I said what I meant.

[Tidal wave]

The man is mental and should be eliminated asap preferably by Denis from the AZOV regiment. 

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, Tidal wave said:

The man is mental and should be eliminated asap preferably by Denis from the AZOV regiment. 

But would it be the shark or the eletrocution that got you in the end, I'm with Trump on this.

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I didn't say or mean that. I said what I meant.

In any event, you have not provided a synopsis of the video you linked too, nor have you outlined what position you had hopes to support with it. This is pretty typical that post links to things they do not understand, but in your case, you claim you are just too busy, which is another typical response. 

[beautifulthailand99]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

In any event, you have not provided a synopsis of the video you linked too, nor have you outlined what position you had hopes to support with it. This is pretty typical that post links to things they do not understand, but in your case, you claim you are just too busy, which is another typical response. 

And I have had posts deleted for being off topic. That's a biggie.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

And I have had posts deleted for being off topic. That's a biggie.

Which is another typical dodge. 

 

The video was not deleted, why would proving a synopsis for it and outlining what position you were supporting with it be deleted? 

 

 

[spidermike007]

Putin is an absolute desperado. He would have to be, to travel to North Korea, which is hell on earth. He is increasingly isolated, and if it were not for oil, gas and minerals, Russia would have already collapsed. He is a serial killer, and seems to enjoy inflicting pain, and slaughtering women and children. His increasing tens of billions of dollars in extorted fortune makes him feel great power, but he is a boil on the face of humanity.  

[jas007]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The left in the US needs Russia as an enemy to take the focus off of China and the Middle East. 

The US would consider Russia an enemy even in the absence of problems in the Middle East or with China. The warmongers and the military/industrial complex wouldn’t be in business very long without a boogeyman. The inertia is still there from the Cold War, so it continues.

[jas007]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Would you please provide a synopsis, and outline what position you are wanting to support with this? 

Isn’t it rather obvious? The person interviewing Chomsky is part of the problem and doesn’t even realize it.  He’s part of the mainstream establishment and fails to recognize that that his world view is manufactured. He has good intentions, though.

 

As for wanting a “synopsis “?  Why not just watch the video? It’s interesting. 

[jas007]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Putin is an absolute desperado. He would have to be, to travel to North Korea, which is hell on earth. He is increasingly isolated, and if it were not for oil, gas and minerals, Russia would have already collapsed. He is a serial killer, and seems to enjoy inflicting pain, and slaughtering women and children. His increasing tens of billions of dollars in extorted fortune makes him feel great power, but he is a boil on the face of humanity. .

 Traveling to North Korea?  Why not?  It’s not as if they’re going to throw him in jail once he arrives.  It’s no place I would visit for vacation, but then again, I’m nobody, so that’s a different story.

Isolated? Reliant on oil, gas, and minerals?  Like just about every major power, I think, or at least some combination of those.  Every country has to adapt. The world has a global economy.

I’ve never been to Russia, but from what I can tell, Putin is well liked in Russia. If all the Russians I come across in the Pattaya area are any indication, the Russian people seem to be relatively happy.  Sometimes they try to talk to me in Russian, but that doesn’t work. Some can speak English, at least a little bit, and in any event, every one of them has always been polite to me.

[connda]

5 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

In that poorly written short article by Oleg Dunda who is a member of Ukraine’s parliament he even mispells him name which is shoddy,shoddy,shoddy.When I see howlers like that then I am not minded to dig any deeper. Any academic that doesn't toe the party line will find themsleves subject to withering attacks from the estblishment. Just watch my Andrew Marr/Chomsky video posted upthread. Once they have been effectively cancelled by the MSN then some find themslves on more fringey dubious channels as Professors with large egos (most of them do have from personal experience) who are just happy to get their opinions out there. From what I see, he is simply someone speaking on conscience, courage and incorruptible integrity, a rare quality among scholars of his calibre these days, who are mostly slaves to their government, university or think tank masters funding their careers. He has FO money and a stellar previous reputation so he can afford that luxury.

 

Thankfully we still have Professor Mearsheimer as well I'm sure Oled will have a pop at him soon enough. Many moons ago I sourced a Hill video which was leapt on by Sir Brian as a conspiracy site as a gotcha moment (the you tube channel) and then I said it was the part of the Hill and he went quiet. He maybe right or they are desperate for money and take paid inserts from think tanks and their compliant stooges.

 

Serious publications embarking on takedowns of established figures would add we approached Professor Sachs on xxx about the facts presented in this article but he declined to comment. Or some such, as I said shoddy,shoddy,shoddy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/@thehill/videos

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Dunda

 

In 1999, he graduated from the Dnipropetrovsk Technical School of Welding and Electronics (programmer-systems engineer). His diploma thesis (practical) was the development of software for the reliability calculation of electronic devices.[2]

In 2001, he graduated from the State Institute for Advanced Training and Retraining of Management and Specialists of the Metallurgical Complex (Dnipro) with a degree in Finance. His diploma thesis was the development of financial instruments for managing non-performing loans of a commercial bank.[2]

 

 

 

I expect all of the hard-core Russian hating neocon/neolib lovers will be mouthing the words, "bub bub but but we never saw this coming" when the nuclear bombs begin to fly.  You all will just stand there slack-jawed watching the horror that the refusal to even consider negotiations with non-Western nations will lead to. 
But you say,
"Russia (China, Iran, DPRK and The Axis Of Evil) must be overthrown - war war war - no negotiations, kill them all down to their last dog - Arggghhh - nuke 'em if they don't surrender!"

Then:

"bub bub but but we never saw this coming - they were bluffing"

Just keep stoking the hate filled rhetoric, your leaders do hear you - "Our citizen want War - War it is!  No negotiations ever.  Bomb them into the stone ages.  Russia (China, Iran, DPRK and The Axis Of Evil) must bow down and surrender to the will of the West or else!" 

 

<BOOM>

🤣  😄😂   😄😂   😄😂   😄😂   😄😂
"Oh connda, Russia's bluffing!  They must surrender because Putin is Hitler. You can't talk to those borsh-eaters  - they are evil Ruskies.  They need to be put down like the dogs they are don't ya know!  You must be Putin's Puppet! And Jeffrey Sachs too!  Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha"

Cooler minds aren't going to prevail.  you want global war?  Enjoy your war and you're hate-fest.

 

I'm outta here.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, connda said:

 

I expect all of the hard-core Russian hating neocon/neolib lovers will be mouthing the words, "bub bub but but we never saw this coming" when the nuclear bombs begin to fly.  You all will just stand there slack-jawed watching the horror that the refusal to even consider negotiations with non-Western nations will lead to. 
But you say,
"Russia (China, Iran, DPRK and The Axis Of Evil) must be overthrown - war war war - no negotiations, kill them all down to their last dog - Arggghhh - nuke 'em if they don't surrender!"

Then:

"bub bub but but we never saw this coming - they were bluffing"

Just keep stoking the hate filled rhetoric, your leaders do hear you - "Our citizen want War - War it is!  No negotiations ever.  Bomb them into the stone ages.  Russia (China, Iran, DPRK and The Axis Of Evil) must bow down and surrender to the will of the West or else!" 

 

<BOOM>

🤣  😄😂   😄😂   😄😂   😄😂   😄😂
"Oh connda, Russia's bluffing!  They must surrender because Putin is Hitler. You can't talk to those borsh-eaters  - they are evil Ruskies.  They need to be put down like the dogs they are don't ya know!  You must be Putin's Puppet! And Jeffrey Sachs too!  Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha"

Cooler minds aren't going to prevail.  you want global war?  Enjoy your war and you're hate-fest.

 

I'm outta here.

The doomsday crystal ball is out again with an overload of emoji's.....lol

[Gweiloman]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

There literally dozens of articles on Sachs being one of Putins idiot apologists, he's even appeared on Russian TV bestowing his apologist rants. Here's one more and I am not insecure enough to have to make an enlarged post on it.

 

Putin’s American Cheerleaders

How Jeffrey Sachs, Mark Episkopos and Dimitri Simes contribute to the Russian propaganda effort.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/putin-russia-war-ukraine-solovyov-jeffrey-sachs-columbia-university-mark-episkopos-center-national-interest-dimitri-simes-11673017425

https://archive.ph/WRODG

Ah.. your usual ad hominem attack on someone whose intellect far exceeds yours. As usual, you don’t challenge the points, preferring to take the cowardly action of lobbing stones behind a wall. Pathetic.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

Ah.. your usual ad hominem attack on someone whose intellect far exceeds yours. As usual, you don’t challenge the points, preferring to take the cowardly action of lobbing stones behind a wall. Pathetic.

What ad hominem attack? The link provided a factual account, I cannot read it for you.

 

I see you are however carrying on with the personal attacks.

[Gweiloman]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What ad hominem attack? The link provided a factual account, I cannot read it for you.

 

I see you are however carrying on with the personal attacks.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Now a trolling emoji with nothing else........

[jas007]

Jeffrey Sachs has impeccable credentials. A tenured Harvard professor at an early age, now a professor at Columbia.  And yet, because he thinks for himself and has a viewpoint that’s not in lockstep with the mainstream narrative, he’s a “Putin apologist.”  A line of reasoning that’s an excellent example of everything wrong with today’s media and how it’s now being used as propaganda.  Anyone who doesn’t agree with the mainstream narrative is an idiot!  And people are dumb enough to believe that.  Amazing, if you stop and think about it l. 
 

[jas007]

3 hours ago, connda said:

 

I expect all of the hard-core Russian hating neocon/neolib lovers will be mouthing the words, "bub bub but but we never saw this coming" when the nuclear bombs begin to fly.  You all will just stand there slack-jawed watching the horror that the refusal to even consider negotiations with non-Western nations will lead to. 
But you say,
"Russia (China, Iran, DPRK and The Axis Of Evil) must be overthrown - war war war - no negotiations, kill them all down to their last dog - Arggghhh - nuke 'em if they don't surrender!"

Then:

"bub bub but but we never saw this coming - they were bluffing"

Just keep stoking the hate filled rhetoric, your leaders do hear you - "Our citizen want War - War it is!  No negotiations ever.  Bomb them into the stone ages.  Russia (China, Iran, DPRK and The Axis Of Evil) must bow down and surrender to the will of the West or else!" 

 

<BOOM>

🤣  😄😂   😄😂   😄😂   😄😂   😄😂
"Oh connda, Russia's bluffing!  They must surrender because Putin is Hitler. You can't talk to those borsh-eaters  - they are evil Ruskies.  They need to be put down like the dogs they are don't ya know!  You must be Putin's Puppet! And Jeffrey Sachs too!  Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha"

Cooler minds aren't going to prevail.  you want global war?  Enjoy your war and you're hate-fest.

 

I'm outta here.

I agree.  “We never saw this coming! Russia was bluffing.”  That’s really what they’ll say, if they’re still around to say anything.

 

Propaganda is dangerous. Censorship is dangerous.  You end up with a population of people who can only regurgitate the narrative they’ve been fed.

 

Stand on a busy street in any major American city and question the people walking by. See what they know about Russia and world politics.

 

-A large percentage would not be able to locate Russia on a map.

-A large percentage would not know that the Soviet Union no longer exists.

- A large percentage would think that Russia has a weak and ineffective military.

- A large percentage would think that the Russian economy is in shambles and that the country still exists only to function as a gas station for the rest of Europe.

- A larger percentage would think that Russia is an enemy of the United States, and that Putin (assuming they know who he is) is a dictator who enjoys killing women and children.

-A large percent would think that the Russian people are “bad people.”

-and the list goes on.

 

Russian art, literature, and music?  Not part of the narrative. Real Russian history? Ditto.  

 

Even members of congress might hold these views.  Not because they actually know anything, but because those are the things they’ve been told to believe. And so the world is being led to war so that a few defense contractors can make a few more dollars.

 

 

[rabas]

1 hour ago, jas007 said:

Jeffrey Sachs has impeccable credentials. A tenured Harvard professor at an early age, now a professor at Columbia.  And yet, because he thinks for himself and has a viewpoint that’s not in lockstep with the mainstream narrative, he’s a “Putin apologist.”  A line of reasoning that’s an excellent example of everything wrong with today’s media and how it’s now being used as propaganda.  Anyone who doesn’t agree with the mainstream narrative is an idiot!  And people are dumb enough to believe that.  Amazing, if you stop and think about it l. 

 

Yes, he is quite intelligent and a very independent thinker. Such people sometimes get it wrong because they lack grounding, the same thing behind their creativity. It comes with the territory.

 

He was inadvertently (unknowingly) enmeshed with the Covid lab leak cover up but over two years came to realize his error and is now a strong lab leak advocate.

 

Because he's an economist and not an historian, I'm not sure he sees all sides of the Putin/Russia/Ukraine issue. He may be partially influenced by his perennial America bad views.  

 

As for mainstream, I don't think there's a mainstream narrative the way you think there is. "It's complicated" is probably a better view.

[rabas]

19 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I agree.  “We never saw this coming! Russia was bluffing.”  That’s really what they’ll say, if they’re still around to say anything.

 

Propaganda is dangerous. Censorship is dangerous.  You end up with a population of people who can only regurgitate the narrative they’ve been fed.

 

Stand on a busy street in any major American city and question the people walking by. See what they know about Russia and world politics.

 

-A large percentage would not be able to locate Russia on a map.

-A large percentage would not know that the Soviet Union no longer exists.

- A large percentage would think that Russia has a weak and ineffective military.

- A large percentage would think that the Russian economy is in shambles and that the country still exists only to function as a gas station for the rest of Europe.

- A larger percentage would think that Russia is an enemy of the United States, and that Putin (assuming they know who he is) is a dictator who enjoys killing women and children.

-A large percent would think that the Russian people are “bad people.”

-and the list goes on.

 

Russian art, literature, and music?  Not part of the narrative. Real Russian history? Ditto.  

 

Even members of congress might hold these views.  Not because they actually know anything, but because those are the things they’ve been told to believe. And so the world is being led to war so that a few defense contractors can make a few more dollars.

 

I'm the case that breaks your theory. I love Russia and it's people. I grew up in cold war Europe, traveled throughout Russia, Ukraine, the Iron Curtain countries, and East Berlin. saw what Hitler had done and Russia was doing. I have close, long time Russian friends. My strong anti Putin's Russia views come from them. 

 

Maybe your views of the world are too simple.