Another Jail Sentence for Holocaust Denier “Nazi Grandma”

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, susanlea said:

So you are happy to curb free speech and jail 95yos? What kind of person thinks that is justice?

I am very happy she has been convicted of this..............the same offense she has been convicted at least 5 times before.

 

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Holocaust did not start with the Gas Chambers, it started with hate speech. The exact same offense she has been convicted for. There is a very good reason Germany has these laws. 

 

The notorious German Holocaust denier Ursula Haverbeck has been repeatedly convicted of inciting hatred.

 

There are many neo Nazis in Germany that thrive off of this exact hatred.

 

 

 

 

[susanlea]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I am very happy she has been convicted of this..............the same offense she has been convicted at least 5 times before.

 

 

 

So you are happy to see a 95yo put in jail by fascists. Ok then.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, susanlea said:

So you are happy to see a 95yo put in jail by fascists. Ok then.

Why are you repeating your posts all the time?

[susanlea]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Why are you repeating your posts all the time?

Why do you support fascists?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, susanlea said:

Why do you support fascists?

I respect German Law.

 

 

[Social Media]

Reminder to please remain on topic:

 

Another Jail Sentence for Holocaust Denier “Nazi Grandma”

[UWEB]

29 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Why do you support fascists?

Question is who is the fascist here.

[susanlea]

9 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Question is who is the fascist here.

Who is doing the jailing? Them not her. Easy answer. People who use force to restrict freedoms are fascists. People who say incorrect things are just wrong.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why are you repeating your posts all the time?

Because that's what trolls do, no matter their reincarnation.

[cdemundo]

21 hours ago, JonnyF said:

While I disagree with her beliefs/opinions, surely she is allowed to have them.

 

What next? Locking up people who deny the moon landings happened? Locking up men who put on a dress and deny they are a man? Locking up people who deny the existence of earth prior to 4000 BC when god created it?

 

The mad old woman can believe whatever she wants to believe. 

"The mad old woman can believe whatever she wants to believe. "

 

Apparently she can't teach others those beliefs though.

 

 

[john donson]

maybe they can sue her for 1 billion gazillion like ALEX JONES

 

we all know the law here in thailand if you speak about a certain...

 

one activist recently died in jail, while mister teflon paid 0.0001% of his wealth for a get free out of jail card for the same

Edited June 29 by john donson

[cdemundo]

5 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Another definition for you: Socialism advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

Notice the difference between this definition and the previous one of fascism; in particular, who should control the means of production?

 

While most (all?) political ideologies share some attributes, it is the differences that distinguish them.

 

Fascism is widely accepted to have gained prominence in Italy in the late 19th/ early 20th century. While some socialists became fascists, fascism was not "founded" by socialists as you claim.

 

In general, your arguments seem to be akin to:

 

All dogs are mammals.
All cats are mammals.
therefore
All dogs are cats.

 

It's sad that you cannot see the fallacy present here and think that your conclusions are logically sound.

Sometimes people make this claim (that Nazis were socialists) because of the name of the party being National Socialists.

But the Nazis were not socialists in spite of their name.

They were not known for adhering strictly to the truth.

Witness the doctrine of "The Big Lie".

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, cdemundo said:

"The mad old woman can believe whatever she wants to believe. "

 

Apparently she can't teach others those beliefs though.

 

 

 

Yet people can teach others trans ideology, Islam, Christianity and critical race theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[connda]

16 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Yes that's what the article says. I read it.

 

But that's not what she is being prosecuted for now. 

 

Do you really want to live in a world where we lock up people indefinitely because we don't agree with their beliefs? That sounds very totalitarian to me.

 

 

The problem is - some people, in fact many people, really do "want to live in a world where we lock up people indefinitely because we don't agree with their beliefs."  It's become really prevalent on the "progressive" Left in the US and elsewhere in the West since I left America 17 years ago. They align themselves with authoritarians who express similar beliefs as they do and urge authoritarian leaders to strip natural rights, like the Right of Free Speech enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution, away from those with whom the disagree.  The entire "misinformation, disinformation, malinformation" canard is built on a foundation of authoritarianism that seeks to limit the individual's right to expound their views and opinions freely in the public square and to only speak the "official, endorsed narratives."

What they miss is that in a totalitarian/authoritarian system of governance, it's usually just a matter of time before you run afoul of some other tenet of the governing authoritarian's system of beliefs - and then?  You yourself become the target of the totalitarian/authoritarian's wrath.

Study history.  History is replete with examples.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller

As a object lesson, it's worthwhile to read about pastor Martin Niemöller himself:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists

Germany may no longer be bound to the horror of Nazism, but they have now embraced a different kind of totalitarianism that seeks to erase any opinion about the history of their country that does not reflect their own singular view of that history.  Disagree with the "officially endorsed historical narratives" and you will find yourself in prison.  There is something drastically wrong with that - it is the criminalization of speech itself!  Like I said, I'd never live in Germany.  That elderly women should not be in prison for voicing opinions.  For as much as I criticize America, I do so out of a love of the country and the Constitution upon which it was founded.  It still supports the right of the individual to express their opinions regardless of whether we agree with those opinions or not.  But if you haven't noticed, many Western countries are now attempting to criminalize speech.  There are massive dangers to the natural rights of the individual in those authoritarian forms of governance. 

[daveAustin]

On 6/28/2024 at 6:42 AM, JonnyF said:

While I disagree with her beliefs/opinions, surely she is allowed to have them.

 

What next? Locking up people who deny the moon landings happened? Locking up men who put on a dress and deny they are a man? Locking up people who deny the existence of earth prior to 4000 BC when god created it?

 

The mad old woman can believe whatever she wants to believe. 

Indeed she can, but she should probably keep her opinions to herself. As dense as it is, openly voicing denial of the moon landings is fine since millions of people were not slaughtered in the process of attempting to go there and, afaik, does not incite hatred.

[BarraMarra]

So Khun La feels he has the right to walk around saying what he wants on Topics that mostly are out of bounds like the Holocaust deniers? wonder how he would fare walking round Alabama with a black lives Matter badge on his shirt.  

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Indeed she can, but she should probably keep her opinions to herself. As dense as it is, openly voicing denial of the moon landings is fine since millions of people were not slaughtered in the process of attempting to go there and, afaik, does not incite hatred.

 

What happened to freedom of speech?

 

We don't lock up jehovahs witnesses for talking factually incorrect nonsense about the creation of earth. Or the trans activists who claim men can have periods.

 

Once we outlaw wrongspeak, wrongthought will be next.

 

Don't give an inch.

[KhunLA]

36 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

So Khun La feels he has the right to walk around saying what he wants on Topics that mostly are out of bounds like the Holocaust deniers? wonder how he would fare walking round Alabama with a black lives Matter badge on his shirt.  

He / I would never, as 'all lives matter'.   

I'm part of the 'human race', not white, , black, christian, jew, muslim, dem or rep.   Citizen of earth, anti label user and just happen to hold a USA PP.

 

Only got  few adjectives to describe people, arrogant & ignorant-stupid, and the only 2 that I can post.  (stupid is just an schooled version of ignorant) 

 

blm riots were an embarrassment to and for blacks.   Nothing but a money grab by the organizers.  And the left fell for it, hook line & sinker.

Edited June 29 by KhunLA

[NativeBob]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yet people can teach others trans ideology, Islam, Christianity and critical race theory.

nice sequence. lovely!

[NativeBob]

51 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Indeed she can, but she should probably keep her opinions to herself

I think she did, but scandal-hungry mass media inflate it to the size of international scandal.

On youtube interviews she barely talks. not incoherent like Biden, but quite mumblish. 

Nazi grandma? Please!

[BarraMarra]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

He / I would never, as 'all lives matter'.   

I'm part of the 'human race', not white, , black, christian, jew, muslim, dem or rep.   Citizen of earth, anti label user and just happen to hold a USA PP.

 

Only got  few adjectives to describe people, arrogant & ignorant-stupid, and the only 2 that I can post.  (stupid is just an schooled version of ignorant) 

 

blm riots were an embarrassment to and for blacks.   Nothing but a money grab by the organizers.  And the left fell for it, hook line & sinker.

You didnt answer KhunLa would you walk around the Streets of Alabama with a BLM Badge on.

[RayC]

9 hours ago, susanlea said:

You falsely claimed it was right wing. I educated you. Free this time. Next time I want to be paid.

 

I note that you avoided answering my question regarding the meaning of, "It was a symbol of collectivist government authority and is widely used to symbolize". I will be generous and assume that - with the benefit of hindsight - you now realise that the sentence in question is utter gibberish.

 

I did not falsely claim anything. I provided you with a quote which defined fascism, and characterized it as being right-wing (ideology). It may have escaped your notice, but it is common in political discussion to portray fascism as 'right-wing' and communism as 'left wing'. 

 

Given I am unwilling to pay you to "educate" me - a laughable proposition in itself as you have consistently proven yourself incapable of engaging in rational argument - I assume that this is the end of this exchange. Small mercies.

[susanlea]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I note that you avoided answering my question regarding the meaning of, "It was a symbol of collectivist government authority and is widely used to symbolize". I will be generous and assume that - with the benefit of hindsight - you now realise that the sentence in question is utter gibberish.

 

I did not falsely claim anything. I provided you with a quote which defined fascism, and characterized it as being right-wing (ideology). It may have escaped your notice, but it is common in political discussion to portray fascism as 'right-wing' and communism as 'left wing'. 

 

Given I am unwilling to pay you to "educate" me - a laughable proposition in itself as you have consistently proven yourself incapable of engaging in rational argument - I assume that this is the end of this exchange. Small mercies.

I quoted Mussolini history. You are trying to rewrite history. You are dishonest.

[susanlea]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

but it is common in political discussion to portray fascism as 'right-wing' and communism as 'left wing'.

Only by modern lefties. History says Mussolini was a socialist. People who rewrite history are dishonest.

[RayC]

Just now, susanlea said:

I quoted Mussolini history. You are trying to rewrite history. You are dishonest.

 

I am neither dishonest nor am I trying to rewrite history. 

 

You are desperate. This is unsurprising given that you have backed yourself into a corner with your illogical argument.

[susanlea]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

I am neither dishonest nor am I trying to rewrite history. 

 

You are desperate. This is unsurprising given that you have backed yourself into a corner with your illogical argument.

You are either ignorant or dishonest.

 

https://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2015/Samuelsfascism.html

Economist Ludwig von Mises, who fled the Nazi conquest of Europe, contended that the “economic program of Italian Fascism did not differ from the program of British Guild Socialism as propagated by the most eminent British and European socialists.”56

In The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics, Sheldon Richman succinctly states: “As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.

 

[susanlea]

After the worldwide Great Depression, Mussolini became more vocal in his claims that fascism explicitly rejected the capitalist elements of economic individualism and laissez-faire liberalism.10 In his “Doctrine of Fascism,” Mussolini wrote: “The Fascist conception of life accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with the State

 

https://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2015/Samuelsfascism.html

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Only by modern lefties. History says Mussolini was a socialist. People who rewrite history are dishonest.

 

To repeat one last time.

 

Yes, Mussolini was a socialist. Mussolini then rejected socialism and embraced a 'new philosophy' which was referred to as fascism. Fascism is a different ideology to socialism.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand.

[RayC]

7 minutes ago, susanlea said:

You are either ignorant or dishonest.

 

https://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2015/Samuelsfascism.html

Economist Ludwig von Mises, who fled the Nazi conquest of Europe, contended that the “economic program of Italian Fascism did not differ from the program of British Guild Socialism as propagated by the most eminent British and European socialists.”56

In The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics, Sheldon Richman succinctly states: “As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.

 

 

4 minutes ago, susanlea said:

After the worldwide Great Depression, Mussolini became more vocal in his claims that fascism explicitly rejected the capitalist elements of economic individualism and laissez-faire liberalism.10 In his “Doctrine of Fascism,” Mussolini wrote: “The Fascist conception of life accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with the State

 

https://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2015/Samuelsfascism.html

 

 " .. Fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer" while at the same time  " (Fascism) explicitly (rejects) the capitalist elements of economic individualism and laissez-faire liberalism"

 

See any problem there?

 

Here's a more objective and nuanced description of the similarities and differences of fascism and socialism:

 

https://www.dictionary.com/compare-words/fascism-vs-socialism

[RayC]

23 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Only by modern lefties. History says Mussolini was a socialist. People who rewrite history are dishonest.

🤷🤦