Owning A Business

[Rionoir]

And btw, you should thank Razzell for pointing out the erroneous information, and A_Traveller for actually pointing out what I expanded on after further research after I presume he went to bed

Sorry... big thanks to both of you too

[onethailand]

Thanks again. There might be an issue with that part about the extra staffing... since, ah... there really is no work for, how many people was it, 6? =P But I guess we will just have to see how it goes... thanks over and over lol, I really appreciate having this cleared up.

If you count your Thai partner, you only need 3 more. I should dig that up as well, this is what I remember being told by Sunbelt but I don't recall having read the actual regulations. Staff can be secretary, office manager, messenger, driver if you like. Not so sure whether or not a maid would count. Or perhaps even hire more photographers, or even trainees, so that you can grow your business. Either way salaries are significantly lower here than in the US. My admin assistant gets about $300 a month and that's overpaying her for what she does. My personal assistant gets about $600 and is worth it but she would've been just as happy at about $450, and that's with years of experience. And with trainees you're looking at roughly $200 a month.

edit -> Hmm.

First of all, here are Sunbelt's rates for company formation - http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thaila...any-Limited.php

Secondly, according to the information on Sunbelt's site, you do *not* need to hire Thai staff *nor* need to meet minimum salary standards for your nationality in order to obtain a work permit. http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thailand-Work-Permit.php

If this is all correct - it will end up being a lot cheaper than you think - but be advised that a Treaty of Amity registration is significantly more expensive, so you should probably ask your partner to hold the majority of the shares. http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thaila...mity-Treaty.php - be advised that the professional fees are only one small part of what you will need to pay, I believe I spent over 100K in the end for everything.

Edited July 31, 2007 by onethailand

[Rionoir]

I believe I spent over 100K in the end for everything.

I was dividing by 3 instead of 33 for a second, I almost had a heart attack. That sounds very reasonable though. I actually was talking to my partner before and realized that I could hire extra photogs and such that would make a lot of sense. Well I can't wait to talk to sunbelt now - looks like this might work out afterall.

I've got time to work it all out anyway, I think I am going to go to that Thai language school (Wallen?) because I can get a student visa for a year and feel everything out before getting in over my head there... not to mention improve my Thai and be able to communicate with my employees! heh Completely off the topic there, but if anyone has any recommendation or experience with that school I'd love to hear it.

[Moonfruit]

I guess my post from last night did sound very negative after the few beers that i had! Sorry about that. No offence intended.

I am aware that there are a few very good photographers based in Thailand and it would be worth picking their brains to see how they go about it. I dont think i can link to external boards there, but if you are interested to do so drop me an IM and ill give you a web link to a forum used by them.

You may also drop by the F Stop cafe on Soi 20 (or is it soi 18?? Google it!) where many local based photogs hang out/exhibit their work to some degree.

Best of luck with it.

[RAZZELL]

Well, we're in for a shocker here.

The link posted above on ThaiVisa says that this is the Schedule Annexed to the Royal Decree Stipulating Work in Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Aliens B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979) .

http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/non-resident/v...3&M_CODE=47

However, it is NOT. It is actually the Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281), from 1972, which was replaced by the Thai Foreign Business Act of 1999 ("FBA").

Section 1. This Act shall be called the "Foreign Business Act 1999".

Section 2. This Act shall come into force immediately after the lapse of the 90-day period that commences on the date of its publication in the Government Gazette.

Section 3. The following shall be repealed:

(1) Announcement No. 281of the National Executive Council dated November 24, 1972.

(2) The Act of 1978 amending Announcement No. 281, of the National Executive Council dated November 24, 1972.

(3) Act No. 2 of 1992 amending Announcement No. 281 of the National Executive Council dated November 24, 1972.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/law/fba_e1999.phtml

The Schedule Annexed to the Royal Decree Stipulating Work in Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Aliens B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979) stipulates 39 professions in which aliens may not work. That is the same list that most of us have referred to in a number of places, and photography is not amongst the professions prohibited.

The Alien Business Law does in fact state that photography is prohibited - as a BUSINESS. But this has already been superceded by the Thai Foreign Business Act (FBA) as of 3 March 2000.

The FBA stipulates the three Lists that I referred to above. Photography does NOT appear on any of these lists. And furthermore, these restricted lists are for businesses which foreigners may not operate - they do not represent occupations which are prohibited to foreigners.

Thus, it should be plainly clear that photography is NOT restricted to aliens Now you know why I asked to see a reference...

Excellent post...

Maybe I can start a business now

RAZZ

Edited August 5, 2007 by RAZZELL

[Rionoir]

Thank you whoever recommended Sunbelt Asia... they are gonna have this whole business setup for me before I even get on a plane.

I'm still getting conflicting reports though as far as the photography thing. Sunbelt made it sound like it isn't a problem the way they are setting the company up, but if a company wanted to hire me specifically as a photographer they said it would be more difficult... which sounds like photographer must still be on some list? Anyway... totally worth the expense having someone else worry about the legal aspect of things.

[RAZZELL]

Well, we're in for a shocker here.

The link posted above on ThaiVisa says that this is the Schedule Annexed to the Royal Decree Stipulating Work in Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Aliens B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979) .

http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/non-resident/v...3&M_CODE=47

However, it is NOT. It is actually the Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281), from 1972, which was replaced by the Thai Foreign Business Act of 1999 ("FBA").

Section 1. This Act shall be called the "Foreign Business Act 1999".

Section 2. This Act shall come into force immediately after the lapse of the 90-day period that commences on the date of its publication in the Government Gazette.

Section 3. The following shall be repealed:

(1) Announcement No. 281of the National Executive Council dated November 24, 1972.

(2) The Act of 1978 amending Announcement No. 281, of the National Executive Council dated November 24, 1972.

(3) Act No. 2 of 1992 amending Announcement No. 281 of the National Executive Council dated November 24, 1972.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/law/fba_e1999.phtml

The Schedule Annexed to the Royal Decree Stipulating Work in Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Aliens B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979) stipulates 39 professions in which aliens may not work. That is the same list that most of us have referred to in a number of places, and photography is not amongst the professions prohibited.

The Alien Business Law does in fact state that photography is prohibited - as a BUSINESS. But this has already been superceded by the Thai Foreign Business Act (FBA) as of 3 March 2000.

The FBA stipulates the three Lists that I referred to above. Photography does NOT appear on any of these lists. And furthermore, these restricted lists are for businesses which foreigners may not operate - they do not represent occupations which are prohibited to foreigners.

Thus, it should be plainly clear that photography is NOT restricted to aliens Now you know why I asked to see a reference...

So on re-reading this...Any photography business, (as a press agency, weddings, print shop, whatever) or working as a "photographer" are possible?

And although you state it is not banned as an "occupation" or "business" ...what exactly would be the difference between a photography "business" and working as a "photographer"?

Surely if you were a photographer you'd be running a "photography business???"

RAZZ

[Rionoir]

This is what I know... the shares will be 51% Thai owned, yet I will retain majority voting rights, and my work permit will be based on the fact that I will be the managing director of the company, not specifically a photographer. They are taking care of things like getting a sponsoring Thai company, setting up a "virtual office" so I have a valid corporate address, and other little details that I wouldn't have been able to do on myself without some huge headaches. I apparently don't need to have any Thai employees with this company either... which was a big relief. So that's about all I understand... I'm putting trust in them because of the recommendations I've seen... hopefully it all works out as they say.

[Maestro]

...I apparently don't need to have any Thai employees with this company either... which was a big relief.

I believe the company would need four Thai employees – and meet other requirements – only if you wanted to apply for an extension of stay based on employment. It is not needed to get a work permit.

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Maestro

[Maestro]

...other little details that I wouldn't have been able to do on myself without some huge headaches. ...

Yes, there are always little but annoying details that crop up when one tries to fly solo, but I see you got yourself a competent copilot.

I wish you success with your new venture. Once you are established you may want to start a blog on ThaiVisa and post some of your experiences. Actually, why not start already now, make it a chronicle of your passage to Thailand. When logged on, click on “My Controls” and take it from there. Click here if you wish to see some blogs of other ThaiVisa members.

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Maestro

[onethailand]

A photographer working for the Bangkok Post would probably not be running a photography business, for example. Where "business" is concerned they are generally referring to you selling photography services.

I don't think any photography business - or photographer - would run into any problems unless they specialized in photographing things which are considered Thai art - such as temples, people dressed in Thai costumes, etc.

Rionoir, I surmise that Sunbelt said it would be more difficult to get hired as a photographer because as I mentioned before, unless you have really unique skills that justify a publication or company hiring you, they would not use up one of their work permits because they could probably get similar talent locally for a lot less money and no need to use up a work permit either. I don't think it's a legal issue.

Edited August 7, 2007 by onethailand

[Maestro]

...the shares will be 51% Thai owned, yet I will retain majority voting rights...

Oops! What was true yesterday may no longer be true in a few months, according to news reports published today about a new law. But there may be another way, for all I know, and if anybody knows, Sunbelt will.

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Maestro

[Rionoir]

Existing companies in the service sector will be allowed to keep their shareholding structure under an amnesty clause.

Does photography fall under service? If so, the article said it would take up to 90 days for the law to be enacted... how long does it take to get a company setup? LoL I'm gonna have to get on the phone tonight and light a fire maybe.

Otherwise, I think it also said companies have two years to change their share structure... again, if I can get it setup before it is enacted. Oh well, we'll see. Thanks so much for posting that so I can watch out for it!

Edited August 8, 2007 by Rionoir

[Maestro]

... LoL I'm gonna have to get on the phone tonight and light a fire maybe...

Keep reading that other topic I linked: more reasonable heads seem to prevail in parliament.

But keeping in touch with Sunbelt by phone is a good idea, one way or the other.

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Maestro

[A_Traveller]

Looks like the two versions were difficult and very difficult and after very difficult succeeded, the government pulled the bill, which the chamber agreed to.

A description of the events made to me suggested that it was a shambles, with tempers running very high, especially from the very contingent.

Regards

[Rionoir]

Thanks for the update guys. I think I am just going to have to stay up late tonight so I can talk to Sunbelt in person... I am getting tired of sending emails back and forth when we are on opposite work schedules... it takes 24 hours just to say yes or no to something.

[Maestro]

...talk to Sunbelt in person...

In case you shouldn't know it yet: there is voipdiscount.com and other services like it that for EUR 10.00 (USD 14.00) let you call lots of countries free of charge from your computer for 120 days, including landline and mobile phone numbers in Thailand. After that, it's 1.4 US cents per minute to Thailand until you buy credit again.

I thought I'd mention this as you will probably be calling Thailand a lot in the coming months.

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Maestro

[onethailand]

...talk to Sunbelt in person...

In case you shouldn't know it yet: there is voipdiscount.com and other services like it that for EUR 10.00 (USD 14.00) let you call lots of countries free of charge from your computer for 120 days, including landline and mobile phone numbers in Thailand. After that, it's 1.4 US cents per minute to Thailand until you buy credit again.

I thought I'd mention this as you will probably be calling Thailand a lot in the coming months.

--

Maestro

Nice recommendation, Maestro. Though their support kinda sucks, I had trouble verifying my first account so eventually I had to do a second one when they didn't respond to the first request correctly.

Having said that, the quality is decent, about a second delay but very clear. Useless for faxing though until very late in the evening, if at all. And free to Thailand for 120 days - you can't beat that. That's one hel_l of a value for 10 Euros... which you can use to call other countries anyhow. And BTW there's about 40 countries which can also use the free 120 days...

<edit> I should also add that if you have a Nokia N8x or N9x series phone, and wireless LAN access, you should install TruPhone (www.truphone.com) on your cellphone, it is also providing free calls to Thailand until the end of the year at least. It is even better than voipdiscount in terms of voice quality, I called my secretary while we were in the same room, and I could hear her clearly even when the phone was in her lap.

Rionoir, did you say you were in California? If so, you're only talking about 7-8 pm your time - shouldn't have to stay up that late. Sunbelt should be open by 10 am here...

Edited August 8, 2007 by onethailand

[Rionoir]

Thanks for the phone recommendation. Most of my friends and family here have Skype, I can call skype-to-skype anywhere in the world for free right? When my sister was living in Australia she and my mom would talk on one of the messaging programs and just do video chat and it always worked out fine. I don't see myself needing to call much other than family - I keep pretty good contact with friends via Myspace, so I ain't gonna call all that often. LoL

Any recommendations on cell phone? I think my Thai friends have told me to buy one here in the states before I go, and then I can get a chip or something replaced over there. Any idea on what phones I can do that with?

Can't wait to hear from my guy at sunbelt tonight... I'll let you know what they say about all this.

[Rionoir]

BTW, someone I think said they had a personal assistant... any advice on where to go to find a good PA? I got by without an assistant here in the US, but it would be really nice to have one since they sound more affordable in Thailand.

[onethailand]

Do you use Skype to talk to Sunbelt?

Skype's sound quality is vastly inferior to Truphone and voipdiscount. I use Skype only for chatting now or peer-to-peer calls. Any calls to phones I use the other two.

Do *NOT* buy a phone in the US and bring it here. Thailand has one of the world's largest cell phone markets in MBK Center. Far cheaper, and not locked to service providers. The singular exception to this is the iPhone because it's impossible to get here at the moment, but I don't think you want one of those.

PAs are cheap here. But then you get what you pay for, so if you want a really good PA you might end up paying more than you think.

[Rionoir]

Ok ok I'll look at something else for phone...

Another question... my business partner talked to sunbelt last night, and he said that I am going to have to leave the country every 90 days or something? Also that depending on what consulate I go to that I will either get a 90 day business visa or a 1-year visa. Is this really how it works? Why is everything such a PITA... lol Man we thought there were a lot of hoops to jump through for him staying in the US. Any thoughts on how hard it is to get the 1-year visa?

Also, it was late by the time he got a hold of anyone so I was half asleep, but I think he said something about after a year I might be able to get something where I don't have to keep leaving the country anymore?