Does it annoy you when a Thai person doesn't understand your spoken Thai?

[watthong]

On 8/6/2024 at 5:54 AM, Bundooman said:

Quote: "I'm not talking about 'pidgin' Thai.  This is a question for those of us who can speak Thai to a high level".

Where is the British dry sense of humour in this sentence?

Pretentious, yes, humorous, no. 

 

 

British dry "SoH" often causes a "stiff upper lip."

[Bday Prang]

   

On 8/4/2024 at 5:50 PM, watthong said:

 

It's the vocal delivery and word enunciation. Fluency has nothing to do with it. If you started learning a foreign language when you have reached mid teen it's already too late. Your vocal box (mouth, tongue and throat) has been too well "tuned" into your own mother tongue by then.

 

           Well in my misinformed and totally unqualified  opinion  correct vocal delivery and enunciation are all part of fluency when it comes to speaking , but, maybe all these hi level Thai speakers are concentrating on the wrong aspects of those rather complex details

           That would go some way to explaining why a seventy year old with no teeth having consumed a bottle of lao Khao or a 6 tear old kid in the midst of a screaming tantrum is still more clearly understood than the best non native speaker

            There may be something in what you say about voice box development but i think on the whole I think  its brain development that is the biggest hindrance as it becomes more difficult to think in a foreign language as ones thought processes get more deeply ingrained.  Either way youth is a huge advantage

             When I think back to how they tried to teach us french at at school and the way they try to teach kids english here I think that traditional  teaching methods certainly  need to be looked at.    Nobody learnt to speak  their mother tongue from a book , or from sitting in a class room in front of a supposedly highly qualified Dr of linguistics, endlessly conjugating verbs.   They learn the essentials from their mothers, and are pretty much sorted to a level a foreigner will never reach, by the time they start school  at 4 or 5 years of age.  

              They make a big fuss about language teachers needing a degree or whatever, I reckon they would be better off just employing mothers 

               

             

[simon43]

7 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

And again, a question of me being German??? Really? Do I have to start a thread and ask the mods to pin it to the top? I have stated I am Swedish several times.

Now, just tell me what was so fun?

Sorry, can't tell you - it's off-topic...  You are sure you're not German?

[bunnydrops]

On 8/5/2024 at 3:20 AM, radiochaser said:

Speaking of accents.   I used to work in a government call center.   One day I worked a call from a young lady that was a political refugee from Vietnam.   Her English had both a Vietnamese and southern drawl accent.   It is the first time I can recall hearing two different accents at the same time. 

I had a girlfriend once that was born in France and learned English from a teacher with a Bostonian accent. She spoke English with the strangest accent I have ever heard.

 

The other day I asked a barista in Thai if she could speak English. She answered "No"

Edited August 8 by bunnydrops
typo

[GinBoy2]

 'I 'think', at least according to my wife and son I speak better Thai than most from Isaan

 

My spoken Isaan Lao isn't bad, but obviously I do have a problem with writing, since there is no dictionary for that

[simon43]

10 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

 'I 'think', at least according to my wife and son I speak better Thai than most from Isaan

 

My spoken Isaan Lao isn't bad, but obviously I do have a problem with writing, since there is no dictionary for that

Yes, my 2 ex wives speak Issan as their first/family language, but obviously can't write it, whereas I can write it in Lao 🙂

[Middle Aged Grouch]

No problem ever with Google Translation

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

No problem ever with Google Translation

Try Google translate with written Isaan Lao in Thai script

 

It's a transliteration and Google will spit out gobbledygook 

[watthong]

20 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

There may be something in what you say about voice box development but i think on the whole I think  its brain development that is the biggest hindrance as it becomes more difficult to think in a foreign language as ones thought processes get more deeply ingrained.  Either way youth is a huge advantage

 

You're veering into the field of syntax. Here the topic deals with what comes out of OP mouth. Which supposedly has gone through his thought processes and is now at the stage of being "vocalised."

[watthong]

22 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

There may be something in what you say about voice box development but i think on the whole I think  its brain development that is the biggest hindrance as it becomes more difficult to think in a foreign language as ones thought processes get more deeply ingrained.  Either way youth is a huge advantage

 

Back in California I used to live across the street from a large household of VNmese "boat people". Naturally VNmese was the prevalent language spoken inside the home. Among them one fob (fresh of the boat) couple did nothing but made "welfare babies" year in out. The first one came from this batch was a prett gitl named Rose. I would play wiht her now and then when I came over, and after she learned to walk, she ran with the street kids crowd comprised of her older siblings and other kids in the neighborhood. Soon they all started speaking English. Including Rose.

One day I was in their living room, Rose came by and answered my question in perfect sounding ie native English, and in the same breath turned around and said something to her Mom in VNmese. For a two year old, I don't think there was much thought processes going on inside. I venture to bet that Rose had no idea she was speaking different languages.

Edited August 8 by watthong

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, watthong said:

 

Back in California I used to live across the street from a large household of VNmese "boat people". Naturally VNmese was the prevalent language spoken inside the home. Among them one fob (fresh of the boat) couple did nothing but made "welfare babies" year in out. The first one came from this batch was a prett gitl named Rose. I would play wiht her now and then when I came over, and after she learned to walk, she ran with the street kids crowd comprised of her older siblings and other kids in the neighborhood. Soon they all started speaking English. Including Rose.

One day I was in their living room, Rose came by and answered my question in perfect sounding ie native English, and in the same breath turned around and said something to her Mom in VNmese. For a two year old, I don't think there was much thought processes going on inside. An illustration of the above quote.

Attitude comes into it as well,  the older people get the more they end up almost fighting the language, "why do they say it like that"     "why do they say things the wrong way round"  sort of thing

[Bday Prang]

17 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

 'I 'think', at least according to my wife and son I speak better Thai than most from Isaan

 

My spoken Isaan Lao isn't bad, but obviously I do have a problem with writing, since there is no dictionary for that

                 When would you need to write "issan Lao" ?  the only possible  reason I could think of was for writing the lyrics for a Morlam song or maybe writing the script for the slap stick comedy show that normally accompanies the live performance of such.

                 Surely , as you say, it would be a transliteration, and there is no official dictionary so the spelling would be somewhat arbitrary at best, similar to  Isan , Issan , Isarn, Esarn if you get my drift.

                  I live in a village in Surin province  only small but with three distinct sectors divided by language    There's the Issan Lao speakers,  The Khmer speakers and Suaii speakers.   I don't think the Suai language has ever been written,   None of the Khmer speakers can read or write Cambodian and as the Surin Khmer  "language" differs significantly to that spoken in Cambodia I doubt the Khmer alphabet would be much use to them even if they could. The Khmer spoken here differs from province to province,  and  can differ from village to village 

                  The only examples of transliterated  written Thai   Khmer I have ever seen is on Kantreum and Jarieng music videos   

The same goes for written issan lao.  I only ever saw it on Morlam videos as far as I can remember

                    The number in the village speaking Khmer seems to be dying out slowly, For my Inlaws at 80 years old it is there normal day to day language although they both speak and read / write Thai   It's strange seeing them watch the news in Thai and then talking about it in Khmer

                   My mrs and her siblings nearly always speak  Khmer with their parents and seem to speak either  with each other swapping and changing at will, sometimes mid sentence  I often hear one asking something in Thai and the other replying in Khmer. They are all capable of speaking Issan Lao to the neighbours when req'd  

                    None of the next generation in the family speak Khmer to any degree but I do hear them use the occasional Khmer words They seem to use Issan Lao a lot more, possibly as its closer to "Thai" than Khmer

                     Unfortunately when I'm there they need to speak Thai to me if they want to have any chance of being  understood, My Khmer is pretty much non existent and since I left KhonKaen around 20 years ago I have pretty much forgotten the little issan lao I ever knew  

                    

[GinBoy2]

14 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

                 When would you need to write "issan Lao" ?  the only possible  reason I could think of was for writing the lyrics for a Morlam song or maybe writing the script for the slap stick comedy show that normally accompanies the live performance of such.

                 Surely , as you say, it would be a transliteration, and there is no official dictionary so the spelling would be somewhat arbitrary at best, similar to  Isan , Issan , Isarn, Esarn if you get my drift.

                  I live in a village in Surin province  only small but with three distinct sectors divided by language    There's the Issan Lao speakers,  The Khmer speakers and Suaii speakers.   I don't think the Suai language has ever been written,   None of the Khmer speakers can read or write Cambodian and as the Surin Khmer  "language" differs significantly to that spoken in Cambodia I doubt the Khmer alphabet would be much use to them even if they could. The Khmer spoken here differs from province to province,  and  can differ from village to village 

                  The only examples of transliterated  written Thai   Khmer I have ever seen is on Kantreum and Jarieng music videos   

The same goes for written issan lao.  I only ever saw it on Morlam videos as far as I can remember

                    The number in the village speaking Khmer seems to be dying out slowly, For my Inlaws at 80 years old it is there normal day to day language although they both speak and read / write Thai   It's strange seeing them watch the news in Thai and then talking about it in Khmer

                   My mrs and her siblings nearly always speak  Khmer with their parents and seem to speak either  with each other swapping and changing at will, sometimes mid sentence  I often hear one asking something in Thai and the other replying in Khmer. They are all capable of speaking Issan Lao to the neighbours when req'd  

                    None of the next generation in the family speak Khmer to any degree but I do hear them use the occasional Khmer words They seem to use Issan Lao a lot more, possibly as its closer to "Thai" than Khmer

                     Unfortunately when I'm there they need to speak Thai to me if they want to have any chance of being  understood, My Khmer is pretty much non existent and since I left KhonKaen around 20 years ago I have pretty much forgotten the little issan lao I ever knew  

                    

Actually most Issan Lao write in transliteration. 

 

I've read my wife and her friend's fb pages. All Thai script transliterated Isaan Lao.

 

I can figure it out by sounding it out, but I'm certainly not reading it.

 

Thats the reality of Isaan, they had Thai imposed on them but underlying it, it's still Lao

 

We went to Vientiene (boring place btw) years ago we were both fine with our Isaan Lao.

 

Couldn't read a word of anything, but verbal was fine

[Bday Prang]

11 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Actually most Issan Lao write in transliteration. 

 

I've read my wife and her friend's fb pages. All Thai script transliterated Isaan Lao.

 

I can figure it out by sounding it out, but I'm certainly not reading it.

 

Thats the reality of Isaan, they had Thai imposed on them but underlying it, it's still Lao

 

We went to Vientiene (boring place btw) years ago we were both fine with our Isaan Lao.

 

Couldn't read a word of anything, but verbal was fine

                I didn't think about facebook, etc.  probably because I never use any of those platforms, My mrs, who's default setting amongst friends and family is generally set to Khmer only ever posts in Thai, as do all her khmer speaking  mates,  probably because they all have non khmer speaking friends who would have no idea what they were saying,  Unlike  Issan Lao t here is no similarity at all between Thai and Khmer 

                 The Khmer speakers also had Thai imposed on them, my mrs tells me that they would get their knuckles rapped if they were heard speaking it at school. I guess it makes sense that everybody in a country the size of Thailand should have a common language, but in my view  Its almost  bit sad when a language dies out.   I guess somebody agrees, because these days it seems to be be almost quite fashionable to speak Khmer in southern issan, some schools even advertising that they teach it, but I'm not sure if they teach the Thai or Cambodian version

                  There are  a few road signs  and other notices written in Khmer script around Surin , but they are for the benefit of the many Cambodian nationals who come and go on a daily basis often to visit the hospitals or supermarkets. 

                   We have been to Cambodia many times, my mrs can make her self understood in "Real" khmer and gets the jist of what they are saying but only just, but I think her shyness is a serious hinderance, fortunately for me many speak good english and many seem to understand Thai

The khmer script to me appears unreadable.                      

[GinBoy2]

9 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

                I didn't think about facebook, etc.  probably because I never use any of those platforms, My mrs, who's default setting amongst friends and family is generally set to Khmer only ever posts in Thai, as do all her khmer speaking  mates,  probably because they all have non khmer speaking friends who would have no idea what they were saying,  Unlike  Issan Lao t here is no similarity at all between Thai and Khmer 

                 The Khmer speakers also had Thai imposed on them, my mrs tells me that they would get their knuckles rapped if they were heard speaking it at school. I guess it makes sense that everybody in a country the size of Thailand should have a common language, but in my view  Its almost  bit sad when a language dies out.   I guess somebody agrees, because these days it seems to be be almost quite fashionable to speak Khmer in southern issan, some schools even advertising that they teach it, but I'm not sure if they teach the Thai or Cambodian version

                  There are  a few road signs  and other notices written in Khmer script around Surin , but they are for the benefit of the many Cambodian nationals who come and go on a daily basis often to visit the hospitals or supermarkets. 

                   We have been to Cambodia many times, my mrs can make her self understood in "Real" khmer and gets the jist of what they are saying but only just, but I think her shyness is a serious hinderance, fortunately for me many speak good english and many seem to understand Thai

The khmer script to me appears unreadable.                      

Well it's one of the weird quirks of the Thai system.

 

My son was born in Singapore, we spoke English, Lao and Thai at home, in equal I might add.

 

When we moved to Thailand he went to a what I think was a top notch international school in Khon Kaen.

 

Of course as soon as he entered the school gates he couldn't utter a word in Lao without getting his knuckles rapped

 

Strangely it was fine for him to talk in English, which of course was his first language

[GinBoy2]

To add to absurdity of my previous post

 

Literally my son and his friends spoke Lao up to the school gates then switched to Thai.

 

Then bizarrely, my son and a few friends who also spoke English, mostly lukungs, would congregate and talk away from the language police

[xeniv23]

On 8/3/2024 at 7:41 PM, simon43 said:

I'm not talking about 'pidgin' Thai.  This is a question for those of us who can speak Thai to a high level.

 

I just had one of those experiences, at a hotel on Koh Lanta.  I wandered in and asked if they had any available rooms and what the price was.  The reception lady looked at me completely blank.  I repeated my request and got the same response.  I therefore said in slowly-spoken English 'Do you speak Thai?'.  (Actually, I was 99% sure that the woman was Thai, and this was my way of winding her up!).  Yes, there are many Burmese working in Thailand, but I was pretty sure that she was Thai.

 

Anyway, the only way to complete my transaction was in English... 

 

The point being, I'm pretty sure that she didn't understand my spoken Thai was because her brain didn't expect a western foreigner to speak Thai. The hotel had many Swedish tourists and I'm sure the poor lady was trying to decipher my utterances as some form of English spoken with a thick Swedish accent!

 

 

Imagine what it must be like for them.  Ease up a bit.