Using an overseas Debit Card to minimise paying tax for those of us staying over 180 days

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

You mean I filled out all of the forms correctly (twice so far), gave them all the docs and bank account statements they needed, a guy outside the building did a quick check, and the guy inside with the uniform checked again and followed the same set of functions he has done ten thousand times, then a day later they stamp my passport and that is that.

Yes, that's it, but maybe next year you will need one more document, that document being from the TRD.  I know, I know, rocket science. 

 

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

I expect the cost will be 1900 baht the same as the last two years.

You can expect whatever you want, but TIT.

 

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

I wonder how they would trace my 20 bank accounts in the UK and the many transactions I make between them.

What have those accounts got to do with remitted funds to Thailand?

 

You are confusing remitted funds with world wide income. 

 

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

I do not have to bring that much money into Thailand as I have no rent to pay as the house has been bought already, and my car is paid for, so I pay for electricity, water, beer, and food, but I cook at home anyway as I use NZ and Ozzie beef and lamb, etc as I don't like the local low-quality stuff.

And your point is? 

 

In one post you are saying the Thai's couldn't organize a p*ss up in as brewery, therefore, there's no way they will be collecting taxes in 2025, and in this post you say you don't remit much money so will have little to no tax to pay.  

 

What's happened to them not having the ability to collect any tax at all? 

 

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

I have 3000 baht spending money to spend each day but that is hard to spend unless I throw half of it away. 

Again, your point is????

 

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

As I said before, they are after the very rich Thais who have millions of dollars hidden overseas, not us small fish whom they have no interest in. 

Do you have a link for this? 

 

Computer data bases will group all residents for tax purposes together.  Obviously, the immigration data base will be the first, showing someone has been inside Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year.  

 

I accept some high net worth individuals may be selected for greater scrutiny, but a tax resident is a tax resident, and once over the threshold, there's a quid in it for Thailand, and I can't see them walking away from that money.

 

As I have posted in the past, the tax clearance certificate that MAY be needed for an annual extension next year might be like the Certificate of Residence.  It should be free, but most pay 300 baht for it.  Maybe the TRD document will be a flat 500 or 1000 baht fee, no other checks made.  Just a new earner, and the money goes all the way to the top. 

 

Who knows what will happen next year, but I just can't see it all disappearing.      

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

I have been told that job was relegated to bar girls a long time ago, once you have bought them a house, and a car, and paid to keep the mum, dad, and the sick buffalo for a few years many farangs end up being skint, hence the move on to the next mug who turns up. 🤣

Many on this forum see "gifting" as a loophole.  It very well may be, and should it be, how long before they close the loophole when they see a high percentage of foreigners just remitting funds into their wife's / girlfriend's bank account and avoiding this tax? 

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:38 AM, JamesPhuket10 said:

I can imagine all of the low-income yet self-important pensioners in a panic as they think the tax people have time to chase after their few shillings

If they make a TRD document a requirement for the annual extension, no need to "chase" anyone. 

 

It would bring the foreigners to the TRD.  They will line up to be milked, but hey, there's no way the Thai authorities would have ever have thought of this idea.  It's all speculation, scaremongering, fake news, my opinion etc etc. 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

If they make a TRD document a requirement for the annual extension, no need to "chase" anyone. 

 

It would bring the foreigners to the TRD.  They will line up to be milked, but hey, there's no way the Thai authorities would have ever have thought of this idea.  It's all speculation, scaremongering, fake news, my opinion etc etc. 

If you keep mentioning it enough times in these threads, perhaps they'll begin to take notice and think it's a good idea!!!

[treetops]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

If you keep mentioning it enough times in these threads, perhaps they'll begin to take notice and think it's a good idea!!!

 

Do you think he's mentioned it as often as his trip to the Singapore Formula 1?

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many on this forum see "gifting" as a loophole.  It very well may be, and should it be, how long before they close the loophole when they see a high percentage of foreigners just remitting funds into their wife's / girlfriend's bank account and avoiding this tax? 

This will probably very much depend upon the TRDs intentions for the last, and subsequent possible, change.

 

There is significant speculation that the intention was to target wealthy Thai tax avoiders and that foreigners are minor collateral damage.
 

If that is true, then, unless those foreigners using the gift possibility to avoid tax start shouting from the rooftops that they are avoiding Thai tax and so making the TRD loose face, then it is quite possible, even likely, that nothing will change.

 

You seem to forget that foreign tax payers in Thailand who have to do their taxes themselves are a tiny fraction of the tax base

[JamesPhuket10]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many on this forum see "gifting" as a loophole.  It very well may be, and should it be, how long before they close the loophole when they see a high percentage of foreigners just remitting funds into their wife's / girlfriend's bank account and avoiding this tax? 

I have come across many a farang who need not worry about paying tax any more, they have been well and truly fleeced by their ex-girlfriend who have already moved onto the next lamb for the slaughter. 

 

I met one such type in Hua Hin years ago, we had a few beers together and he was handing out 1000 baht tips to the girls in the bar, I asked him what he was doing and he said he had lost a house and a car to his girlfriend in Isaan and was on his way back to live in the USA, he said they had taken 99% of what he had so they may as well have the rest.

 

I gave the girls a tip of 50 baht, they said I was "kin yow" (I don't know the spelling but it means you are mean", I said no, I am "kin yow mark, and that is the way I will stay. " 🤣

[JamesPhuket10]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, that's it, but maybe next year you will need one more document, that document being from the TRD.  I know, I know, rocket science. 

 

You can expect whatever you want, but TIT.

 

What have those accounts got to do with remitted funds to Thailand?

 

You are confusing remitted funds with world wide income. 

 

And your point is? 

 

In one post you are saying the Thai's couldn't organize a p*ss up in as brewery, therefore, there's no way they will be collecting taxes in 2025, and in this post you say you don't remit much money so will have little to no tax to pay.  

 

What's happened to them not having the ability to collect any tax at all? 

 

Again, your point is????

 

Do you have a link for this? 

 

Computer data bases will group all residents for tax purposes together.  Obviously, the immigration data base will be the first, showing someone has been inside Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year.  

 

I accept some high net worth individuals may be selected for greater scrutiny, but a tax resident is a tax resident, and once over the threshold, there's a quid in it for Thailand, and I can't see them walking away from that money.

 

As I have posted in the past, the tax clearance certificate that MAY be needed for an annual extension next year might be like the Certificate of Residence.  It should be free, but most pay 300 baht for it.  Maybe the TRD document will be a flat 500 or 1000 baht fee, no other checks made.  Just a new earner, and the money goes all the way to the top. 

 

Who knows what will happen next year, but I just can't see it all disappearing.      

 

They can't even get the TM47 to work properly online and that is a doodle for us software engineers who know what we are doing to write and test.

 

So I can't see them managing to produce a full tax system tracker, it will be well beyond their capabilities. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/2/2024 at 3:16 PM, JamesPhuket10 said:

 

They can't even get the TM47 to work properly online and that is a doodle for us software engineers who know what we are doing to write and test.

 

So I can't see them managing to produce a full tax system tracker, it will be well beyond their capabilities. 

 

You still don't get it. 

 

You are looking at it like it should be / will be an efficient and accurate tax system. 

 

As I have said before, maybe all it will be is some BS money grab for a document that is a flat fee to obtain for most of us.  For high net worth individuals, they may actually apply the law and audit them.  It MAY be required for the annual extension, so we will all have to pay "something" for it.  

 

Basically, it's possible we will all have to pay "something" and "something" may just be a "fee" like for the Certificate of Residence that is free, but most pay 300 baht for.  Not much "software engineering" involved for this money earner. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/2/2024 at 3:10 PM, JamesPhuket10 said:

I have come across many a farang who need not worry about paying tax any more, they have been well and truly fleeced by their ex-girlfriend who have already moved onto the next lamb for the slaughter. 

Why do you say "have" been fleeced?  May are still being fleeced I post. 

 

On 9/2/2024 at 3:10 PM, JamesPhuket10 said:

I met one such type in Hua Hin years ago, we had a few beers together and he was handing out 1000 baht tips to the girls in the bar, I asked him what he was doing and he said he had lost a house and a car to his girlfriend in Isaan and was on his way back to live in the USA, he said they had taken 99% of what he had so they may as well have the rest.

Did he make it back to the US, or become a member of the Hua Hin Balcony Flying Club? 

 

]

On 9/2/2024 at 3:10 PM, JamesPhuket10 said:

I gave the girls a tip of 50 baht, they said I was "kin yow" (I don't know the spelling but it means you are mean", I said no, I am "kin yow mark, and that is the way I will stay. " 

I don't tip, because I couldn't care what Thai whores think.  Silly you.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/2/2024 at 11:01 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

This will probably very much depend upon the TRDs intentions for the last, and subsequent possible, change.

Why would it have to be a "last and subsequent change?"  You know what it's like here, they change things like the weather, even their governments. 

 

On 9/2/2024 at 11:01 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

There is significant speculation that the intention was to target wealthy Thai tax avoiders and that foreigners are minor collateral damage.

I accept that, and that's why I have said, in my opinion, we will all have to pay "something" with "something" not necessarily being one's correct amount of tax, but "something." 

 

On 9/2/2024 at 11:01 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

If that is true, then, unless those foreigners using the gift possibility to avoid tax start shouting from the rooftops that they are avoiding Thai tax and so making the TRD loose face, then it is quite possible, even likely, that nothing will change.

I expect many creative, but legal, ways for foreigners to minimize their tax liability to be discussed in 2025, based on however the Thai authorities implement this tax policy.  Minimizing tax is not illegal. 

 

That said, if they make it a flat fee for a document for an annual extension, some may pay when they shouldn't have to be paying anything, and others may pay less when they should be paying more, but either way, it's a new earner that for Thailand, legit or otherwise, that didn't exist in 2024.

 

 

On 9/2/2024 at 11:01 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

You seem to forget that foreign tax payers in Thailand who have to do their taxes themselves are a tiny fraction of the tax base

No, I don't forget that.  It's just that the Thai government will take every baht form everyone, and no free passes for farang. 

 

As I have said many times, everyone is looking at this policy as if it will be implemented to the letter of the law.  It could very well be like the Certificate of Residence, and we all just have to pay a flat fee for a document for the annual extension.  

 

Time will tell. 

[Ricohoc]

On 8/9/2024 at 3:52 PM, spidermike007 said:

There's a very simple solution for those who are married to a Thai woman. I believe that I had read that there was somewhere between 2 and 5 million baht per year that was allowed to be sent to your wife, and that money would be tax-exempt. 

Yes, but there's an even better way.

[Ricohoc]

I have seen all of the common personal deductions, but one that I have not seen any specifics on is the deduction of 50,000 baht for goods and services. Are there any specifics on this? Would it include hospital services, purchase of major appliances, major auto repair, etc.?

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

I have seen all of the common personal deductions, but one that I have not seen any specifics on is the deduction of 50,000 baht for goods and services. Are there any specifics on this? Would it include hospital services, purchase of major appliances, major auto repair, etc.?

Hmmmm, no!

 

Apart from the personal allowance that everyone gets, deductions and allowances are mostly tied to the different types of income. There are 8 classes of income and most are accompanied by an expense deduction of some sort. For example,  Category 1 income includes salary and pensions. You're allowed a deduction equal to 50% of that category of income, maximum 100k baht, for expenses incurred that relate to that income. And so on.

 

There are no allowances or deductions that specifically relate to the things you mention in your post hospital services, purchase of major appliances, major auto repair, etc. 

 

I'm unsure about the 50k deduction for goods and services that you mention, I think that might be a one time incentive by the Revenue to persuade people to spend more on certain items, the details are below,

 

https://sherrings.com/shopping-personal-income-tax-allowance-2024-thailand.html

 

 

[Ricohoc]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Hmmmm, no!

 

Apart from the personal allowance that everyone gets, deductions and allowances are mostly tied to the different types of income. There are 8 classes of income and most are accompanied by an expense deduction of some sort. For example,  Category 1 income includes salary and pensions. You're allowed a deduction equal to 50% of that category of income, maximum 100k baht, for expenses incurred that relate to that income. And so on.

 

There are no allowances or deductions that specifically relate to the things you mention in your post hospital services, purchase of major appliances, major auto repair, etc. 

 

I'm unsure about the 50k deduction for goods and services that you mention, I think that might be a one time incentive by the Revenue to persuade people to spend more on certain items, the details are below,

 

https://sherrings.com/shopping-personal-income-tax-allowance-2024-thailand.html

 

 

 

Thanks. Yes, I read that yesterday.

 

The list shows only those things that are NOT acceptable for deduction, like beer, tobacco, fuel, etc. It is not clear what IS acceptable.

[chiang mai]

31 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

Thanks. Yes, I read that yesterday.

 

The list shows only those things that are NOT acceptable for deduction, like beer, tobacco, fuel, etc. It is not clear what IS acceptable.

It looks like the supplier must be VAT registered or use e-invoice which is pretty broad. Since the shopping period has now passed, you may as well include any of the items you mention and if they get rejected, you'll find out why. Nothing to lose there I reckon.

[Ricohoc]

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It looks like the supplier must be VAT registered or use e-invoice which is pretty broad. Since the shopping period has now passed, you may as well include any of the items you mention and if they get rejected, you'll find out why. Nothing to lose there I reckon.

Fortunately, I don't need it. I'm just tying to find out as much as I can.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

[siam55]

Am 7.8.2024 um 09:16 sagte 4MyEgo:

 

Sind Geschenke in Thailand steuerpflichtig?

Steuerbetrag
Der Schenkungssteuersatz beträgt für nicht verwandte Empfänger 10 %, während er für Nachkommen oder Vorfahren 5 % beträgt . Vorausgesetzt, die 10 % Schenkungssteuer zahlen müssen, haben die Möglichkeit, 5 % Schenkungssteuer zu zahlen. Dies gilt nur unter bestimmten Umständen.

 

Nach dem oben Gesagten ist mir, glaube ich, eine Brainstorming-Idee für diejenigen eingefallen, deren Schwiegereltern über 65 kein Einkommen haben und für die meine Frau ebenfalls kein Einkommen hat.

 

Eigentlich war es die Frau, die auf die Idee mit den Schwiegereltern kam, also gebührt ihre Anerkennung.

 

Ich schenke meinem Schwiegervater 190.000 und meiner Schwiegermutter weitere 190.000, da ihnen ein Selbstbehalt von 190.000 zusteht (Konten dürfen ohne Bankkarte eröffnet werden, also keine Jahresgebühr für jedes Konto).

 

Dies werden neue Konten sein, die meine Frau, mit der ich seit zwei Jahrzehnten verheiratet bin, führen wird. Ich werde dann 150.000 Baht auf das Konto meiner Frau überweisen. Das ist ebenfalls ein Geschenk und liegt unter dem Schwellenwert von 150.000.

 

Der Gesamtbetrag der Schenkung beträgt 530.000, und ich habe einen Selbstbehalt von 460.000, also insgesamt 990.000, da ich über 65 Jahre alt bin und 150.000 für mein Alter geltend machen kann, dann 60.000 als persönlicher Freibetrag und 60.000 als persönlicher Freibetrag für meine Frau, also 990.000, das ist so nah an der Million, wie man bekommen kann, was mir passt und legal ist .

 

Das bedeutet, dass ich null Steuern zahle . Und ja, sobald das Geld auf das Konto der Schwiegereltern eingeht, kann meine Frau eine Internetüberweisung von der Bank (die neu vom Konto der Schwiegereltern eingerichtet wurde) auf ihr Konto tätigen, und wir können bei Bedarf über das Konto meiner Frau Abhebungen vornehmen.

 

Ich werde die 400.000 Baht, die für die jährliche Eheverlängerung erforderlich sind und sich vor 2024 auf meinem Konto befinden, auf meinem Konto belassen. 

 

Da wir bereits einen Beitrag zur thailändischen Wirtschaft leisten, gibt es mehr als nur eine Möglichkeit, diese meiner Meinung nach dumme Gesetz zu kritisieren.

 

Wenn irgendjemand ein Problem mit meiner Denkweise voraussieht, kann er mir gern meine Illusionen zerstören.

 

 

 

[siam55]

A good strategy. But can you give so much every month without the tax authorities realizing that it is for your benefit? I do it differently, transfer a certain amount to my sister-in-law's account in Thailand. She lives in Europe. She then sends me money from her Thai account to my Thai account