Discounts On New Condos

[fletchsmile]

Anyone any idea of what's a reasonable discount on new condo projects for their list/offer price?

So far openers have come in with discounts of 0-5%; which when pushed a little move to 5-7.5%.

I appreciate it will vary. What I'm looking for is what's a common discount range on new projects for say condos in 10mio - 20mio range.

eg if I was buying a car, I'd know I'd get single digits usually on list price and there's not so much play.

I'm not so much worried about a few % points, but if I should be asking 10%-25% that's a different ball game. All I'm looking for is ball park estimates on new projects in BKK, Sathorn area. 10mio - 20mio new condos

Edited August 1, 2007 by fletchthai68

[bangkoksingapore]

it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months.

[naturalpoints]

it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months.

That BS mate!

Unfactual evidence based on pure assumption.......

Get your finger out and come back with real statistics.

[backflip]

"it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months."

Did bingobongo change his screen name?

[jumnien]

You most certainly can discount any notion that the finished condo will look anything like the slick photos in the brochure!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

"it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months."

Did bingobongo change his screen name?

[fletchsmile]

it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months.

Would be interested in a few more specifics on this. i.e name of condo, location, completion date. Perhaps it's a poor project in a poor location.

It doesn't fit with what I've been seeing for quality condos in good locations. All the quality projects I've seen: The Met, The Address Chidlom, Park Chidlom, Empire, one near Chong Nonsri BTS (100% sold), etc; are all selling well, despite being some time from completion. In each of these projects the units that would have been my first choice have gone. The lower and mid range condo end might be slower, but the quality end doesn't seem to be creating opportunities for huge discounts. I don't think it will either, as like most capital cities the space for quality projects in the centre is limited. It's the suburbs and smaller cities that will feel the pressure, as people choose to be further out in exchange for cheaper price. I think if you want quality in the centre you need to pay for it. I'm also looking at least 10-20 years time frame.

So if anyone has any real experience of actual discounts being offered, or which they have received. That's what I'm really looking for, rather than doom and gloom predictions on the market. (BTW Have been hearing for 4 years or so that the market is overpriced and going to fall!)

Edited August 2, 2007 by fletchthai68

[ya5702]

It doesn't fit with what I've been seeing for quality condos in good locations. All the quality projects I've seen: The Met, The Address Chidlom, Park Chidlom, Empire, one near Chong Nonsri BTS (100% sold), etc; are all selling well, despite being some time from completion. In each of these projects the units that would have been my first choice have gone. The lower and mid range condo end might be slower, but the quality end doesn't seem to be creating opportunities for huge discounts. I don't think it will either, as like most capital cities the space for quality projects in the centre is limited. It's the suburbs and smaller cities that will feel the pressure, as people choose to be further out in exchange for cheaper price. I think if you want quality in the centre you need to pay for it. I'm also looking at least 10-20 years time frame.

So if anyone has any real experience of actual discounts being offered, or which they have received. That's what I'm really looking for, rather than doom and gloom predictions on the market. (BTW Have been hearing for 4 years or so that the market is overpriced and going to fall!)

Sounds like you are either an optimist or a real estate agent. If you are indeed a longterm investor (10 to 20 years) and is bullish about

the Bangkok condo market, why negotiate a discount? Pay the market price!

[fletchsmile]

Sounds like you are either an optimist or a real estate agent. If you are indeed a longterm investor (10 to 20 years) and is bullish about

the Bangkok condo market, why negotiate a discount? Pay the market price!

We're looking primarily as our main family home/residence. If a great opportunity came up to realise a healthy profit we'd obviously consider but that's not the intention.

Why negotiate a discount? Well if I'm offered say 5% discount on middle of the 10-20mio range. 15mio @5% = 750k discount. Well worth having in my book. If I should be getting 20% = 3mio vs 750k I'm being offered as discount, then again that's worth researching, and I'd like to know. For a couple of % points either way, though I'm not bothered too much. Sure I'd like the best deal possible but if I should be getting 900k (7%) and I'm only getting 750k (5%) I can live with that.

Hence the question/post.

Edited August 2, 2007 by fletchthai68

[quiksilva]

Up to 10% depending upon the project and how well sales are going.

[fletchsmile]

Up to 10% depending upon the project and how well sales are going.

Thanks Quiksilva. I just want to make sure I'm in the right ball park.

Any thoughts on "The Star" or "Empire" both on Narathiwas. Star has said 7.5%, Empire have gone up to 5%. I'd put the diff down to the latter being better quality and in more demand.

Edited August 2, 2007 by fletchthai68

[cmsally]

Sounds like you are either an optimist or a real estate agent. If you are indeed a longterm investor (10 to 20 years) and is bullish about

the Bangkok condo market, why negotiate a discount? Pay the market price!

Why would anyone not negotiate a discount. There is no such thing as a fixed market price.

Just because you are in for the long run doesn't mean to say you need to pay more.

[quiksilva]

Up to 10% depending upon the project and how well sales are going.

Thanks Quiksilva. I just want to make sure I'm in the right ball park.

Any thoughts on "The Star" or "Empire" both on Narathiwas. Star has said 7.5%, Empire have gone up to 5%. I'd put the diff down to the latter being better quality and in more demand.

Sounds reasonable to me. By the way nice choice of location this, should have good letting prospects seeing as its not too far from the business districts of Silom and Sathorn.

I personally think this is where we will see the CBD extend into over the coming years, in fact with a couple of recent office developments announced and recently completed one might argue that this process has already begun.

Good luck with it!

[UnknownPoster]

They say, many of these high end places are sold out. Not sure I believe them.

Don't be shy to make some low offers.

About 8 years ago, I went to several property auctions. Prices settled around 50,000bt /meter.

If I was buying, I would look for some of these places, with owners selling and make some low offers.

Newer building have higher costs due to increase in materials/land.

Construction costs are around 65,000bt/ meter these days.

[cmsally]

Depends which area and supply in that area. I looked at a condo in Pathumwan - old (15 yrs approx) building but well kept up. There was a room coming up for auction at LED starting at 1.3m It was sold at 2.8m (45m2) That would work out around 62000Bt/m2 (bear in mind you would probably have to refurbish and fix the place up completely).Whoever was buying probably had in mind that nearby in upcoming projects prices are more expensive and supply isn't that great even after completion of all the projects underway. Having looked at many of the old projects it seems that location, especially proximity to BTS is a big factor in the price. If you are looking at the Chidlom, Pathumwan area for instance your best bet might be to find a resale when the time comes up close to transfer - there might be some people looking to bail out quickly. The old buildings definitely don't have any great bargains.

[AmericanGuy1066]

Yes, very rare to get more than 10%. So would say 0-10% range. In practice probably even narrower, say 2.5% - 7.5%, depending on most of factors people have already raised.

[klikster]

We just made a deposit at a new condo startup on LadPhrao. Asking was around Bt 3 million. A 'do it quickly' discount of 5% was offered. Buddie's #2 son made a quick call to a salesperson he knew. 10% offered and accepted.

[bangkoksingapore]

it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months.

Would be interested in a few more specifics on this. i.e name of condo, location, completion date. Perhaps it's a poor project in a poor location.

It doesn't fit with what I've been seeing for quality condos in good locations. All the quality projects I've seen: The Met, The Address Chidlom, Park Chidlom, Empire, one near Chong Nonsri BTS (100% sold), etc; are all selling well, despite being some time from completion. In each of these projects the units that would have been my first choice have gone. The lower and mid range condo end might be slower, but the quality end doesn't seem to be creating opportunities for huge discounts. I don't think it will either, as like most capital cities the space for quality projects in the centre is limited. It's the suburbs and smaller cities that will feel the pressure, as people choose to be further out in exchange for cheaper price. I think if you want quality in the centre you need to pay for it. I'm also looking at least 10-20 years time frame.

So if anyone has any real experience of actual discounts being offered, or which they have received. That's what I'm really looking for, rather than doom and gloom predictions on the market. (BTW Have been hearing for 4 years or so that the market is overpriced and going to fall!)

well you are obviously less likely to get a big discount in a brand new project thats advertised all over the BTS and Siam Paragon. the condo whose price i showed is located close to bts prakano and is almost finished.

[fletchsmile]

well you are obviously less likely to get a big discount in a brand new project thats advertised all over the BTS and Siam Paragon. the condo whose price i showed is located close to bts prakano and is almost finished.

Thanks for the note. Do you mean Prakanong BTS station? What's the name?

[cmsally]

The condo that I've noticed is advertised all over the BTS is Le Luk

I believe it is very close to Prakanong Station.

Sukhumvit Plus should be just across the street on the otherside of BTS - if I have my geography right.

Quite a lot of resales if you look at the Thai websites.

[fletchsmile]

Just as an update, and to say thanks to all the above for their help.

We reserved a condo today. Discount was just over 10%. Actually it should have been 10%, but it made it a number which would have affected a few thresholds, so they very kindly agreed to give us an extra THB 3,051. So all in all 10% + THB 3,051

[JonnieB]

I would think like any bargaining situation, if you are making are in a position to buy (i.e., have ready funds available and proof of such funds) then go in and negotiate hard. When I am negotiating, don't be shy to go in at half the asking price...you can always raise but it is difficult to go down. You know you have underbid when they let you walk out the door without coming after you. Key is to make your first low low offer and show your cashiers check for the deposit to show you are serious and ready to complete. I would say, however, that this works best with secondary or after-market sales. When buying off-plan or from the developer, these are usually well-financed companies and will be more hard nosed about giving big discounts...unless is to sell-off the last few units in a building (or particularly undesirable units).

Also, I don't think there is much of a shortage of land in central Bangkok or anywhere else in the capitol. It often looks that way from the main streets because all the street frontage is built-up. However, often, it is the case that this "build-up" is only one layer (i.e. one-building) thick. The centers and interiors of most Bangkok "blocks" are often completely empty or have low-rise structures that could be demolished for another high-rise condo or office when the time is right. So I don't think prices will rise because of a shortage of available land (ala Singapore, London, San Fran, or New York). Maybe for other reasons but not because of any land shortage.

Edited August 21, 2007 by JonnieB

[bingobongo]

"it looks like the thai market is about to start suffering. i would be looking for atleast a 10% discount. i have been tracking some prices on the web and the price has gone like this for one condo ive been considering

95k/m2

92/m2

90/m2

87/m2

84/m2

83/m2

82/m2

This is over the last 3 months."

Did bingobongo change his screen name?

come on backflip, dont be nasty just becasue your equity is disintegrating faster than democracy in Thailand

[AmericanGuy1066]

...

Also, I don't think there is much of a shortage of land in central Bangkok or anywhere else in the capitol. It often looks that way from the main streets because all the street frontage is built-up. However, often, it is the case that this "build-up" is only one layer (i.e. one-building) thick. The centers and interiors of most Bangkok "blocks" are often completely empty or have low-rise structures that could be demolished for another high-rise condo or office when the time is right. So I don't think prices will rise because of a shortage of available land (ala Singapore, London, San Fran, or New York). Maybe for other reasons but not because of any land shortage.

As you point out there is no shortage of land. However if you look at the heart of Bangkok, and take say CBD, there is much less space than there used to be. There's only one of Sathorn, Silom etc. This trend of less space will continue. Eventually similar to say London. Would be interesting for example to see same map 20 years ago, 30 etc

Edited August 21, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[thaigene2]

To the OP..

Welcome to the asylum.

In Wing A is naturalpoints, backflip and a couple of other shillers and some property spin doctors.."Real Estate will never fall in price, no one will ever suffer any serious inconvenience buying here in Thailand..everyone else is a whiner.." ya, da, ya da..

In Wing B is cmsally, quicksilva and a couple of others who are reasoned middle of the road types with pretty good market info (esp cmsally), investors who rent out properties, etc....but are still pretty bullish overall with some reservations

Wing C is bingobongo, myself a a couple of others who have serious reservations about buying anything here right now for reasons ranging from price bubbles, to 100% 'sold out' places - but with empty windows - while yet more are built, to poor quality, to the undeniable visa issues (are you entitled to actually live here?), and lack of access to credit for those who want to live here long-term like normal buyers.

Enjoy.

Edited August 21, 2007 by thaigene2

[jasreeve17]

Can I join Wing C please.

I don't think that I can afford the high room rates in wing A. It must be the additional charge for all the extra colostomy bag changes.

[thaigene2]

Can I join Wing C please.

I don't think that I can afford the high room rates in wing A. It must be the additional charge for all the extra colostomy bag changes.

Room C-317 is reserved for you. As for A Wing...I'm sure they'll tell you their 'sh+t don't stink' and in any event, if you can't afford the extra bags, you shouldn't be there anyway..it's A-Grade Sh+t, and no one has ever lost money on premiun sh+t!

Edited August 21, 2007 by thaigene2

[Gary A]

Anyone who buys pre construction today has WAY more faith and trust in the system than I do. I'd wager that many of those huge projects will NEVER be finished. If they do manage to sell the farang 49 percent, what are they going to do with the remaining 51 percent? Be sure to check the maintenance fees. Paying 85 baht per square meter per month would make me choke.

[fletchsmile]

To the OP..

Welcome to the asylum.

In Wing A is naturalpoints, backflip and a couple of other shillers and some property spin doctors.."Real Estate will never fall in price, no one will ever suffer any serious inconvenience buying here in Thailand..everyone else is a whiner.." ya, da, ya da..

In Wing B is cmsally, quicksilva and a couple of others who are reasoned middle of the road types with pretty good market info (esp cmsally), investors who rent out properties, etc....but are still pretty bullish overall with some reservations

Wing C is bingobongo, myself a a couple of others who have serious reservations about buying anything here right now for reasons ranging from price bubbles, to 100% 'sold out' places - but with empty windows - while yet more are built, to poor quality, to the undeniable visa issues (are you entitled to actually live here?), and lack of access to credit for those who want to live here long-term like normal buyers.

Enjoy.

Thanks for the welcome. Actually it's been very useful to read the many posts around from all these people. So thanks for that too. The different opinions, including the extremes, have helped reach our own conclusions as for what's best for us. We're probably somewhere in the middle.

We're buying longer term for our family (Thai wife and last year we had a daughter). We live here. I work here, and we've bought at the mid-high end. 3 bed place, central, close to my office. We're comfortable with all the risks: possible bust, economice cycle, time to completion, visas, political uncertainty, currency etc etc. Tho' I would add we selected our 2nd choice (in terms of what we really wanted if all things were equal and zero risk). Because of the risk / rewards, the 1st choice was more risk than we wanted: higher price: 16mio, ready 2009, currencies, economic cycle, political risk etc. So we went for something lower in price and ready Nov (so they say!), which we're still very happy with.

That's the key. Get something you are happy with, and fits your own risk profile!

[pkrv]

To the OP..

Welcome to the asylum.

In Wing A is naturalpoints, backflip and a couple of other shillers and some property spin doctors.."Real Estate will never fall in price, no one will ever suffer any serious inconvenience buying here in Thailand..everyone else is a whiner.." ya, da, ya da..

In Wing B is cmsally, quicksilva and a couple of others who are reasoned middle of the road types with pretty good market info (esp cmsally), investors who rent out properties, etc....but are still pretty bullish overall with some reservations

Wing C is bingobongo, myself a a couple of others who have serious reservations about buying anything here right now for reasons ranging from price bubbles, to 100% 'sold out' places - but with empty windows - while yet more are built, to poor quality, to the undeniable visa issues (are you entitled to actually live here?), and lack of access to credit for those who want to live here long-term like normal buyers.

Enjoy.

Thanks for the welcome. Actually it's been very useful to read the many posts around from all these people. So thanks for that too. The different opinions, including the extremes, have helped reach our own conclusions as for what's best for us. We're probably somewhere in the middle.

We're buying longer term for our family (Thai wife and last year we had a daughter). We live here. I work here, and we've bought at the mid-high end. 3 bed place, central, close to my office. We're comfortable with all the risks: possible bust, economice cycle, time to completion, visas, political uncertainty, currency etc etc. Tho' I would add we selected our 2nd choice (in terms of what we really wanted if all things were equal and zero risk). Because of the risk / rewards, the 1st choice was more risk than we wanted: higher price: 16mio, ready 2009, currencies, economic cycle, political risk etc. So we went for something lower in price and ready Nov (so they say!), which we're still very happy with.

That's the key. Get something you are happy with, and fits your own risk profile!

Looking at your (and the previous posts) - I agree life is not a trial run, for good or worst, we all strive to do our best in the maelstrom of life. I too however agree with your life style choice, I see no particular problems on the horizon.