Adsl Connexion Laptop To Modem

[lotus eater]

I like to use my laptop all around my house. My apple airport express wifi plug is currently playing up and of course I need to have the problem diagnosed and corrected. In the meantime may I please put the following question to the experts? (I am the exact opposite of an expert in this whole area.)

1.

Is there a noticeable improvement in quality using a wire connexion over wifi? Especially where speeds are not that great, as in Thailand.

2.

What is the longest length of wire - laptop to modem - I can use before there is a clear deterioration in quality/speed/connectivity - whichever is the right term? I have seen a 10 metre packaged wire in a shop; I can live with that, but was going to look for something longer if there's no quality issue.

Edited August 1, 2007 by lotus eater

[lopburi3]

I am using three 30 meter runs (two laptops and a desktop) with no problems. Although I don't use the these units believe they are far better than wireless was (but I can only base that on print times to my printer). Believe the normal word is to keep runs below 100 meters.

[Crossy]

Assuming we're talking Ethernet as opposed to USB (Ethernet has the RJ45 connector, like a big phone plug) then the official maximum is 100m, however, at the data rates expected by ADSL you'll be fine to 130m and more

Reliability even at the longer lengths will be 100% better than wireless, I avoid wireless for anything other than my laptop and even then if I want to transfer lots of data I plug in a trailing RJ45.

USB is much more limiting with anything much over 5m being iffy (particularly if the device takes its power from the USB as well)

Edited August 2, 2007 by Crossy

[monty]

If you use the wireless for internet access only, speeds will not be affected as long as the wifi card can connect at normal speeds (11 mbps for b or 54mbps for G)

If the distance gets too big you might experince slower speeds, especially if you have quite fast internet (i.e. 2 mbps)

Remember, the actual throughput of a wifi connection will be not much better then half of what is indicated! So if you wifi connection only manages 1mbps connection (you should be pretty far away from the accespoint for that to happen) you won't see much transfer over 500 kbps. If your ADSL is 1024kbps, you can see you lose quite a lot speed!

For anything else, printing, transfering files within your network etc, a wired system is vastly superior. Cable lengths of up to 100m will give the full 100mbps, longer cables might start to lose speed, depending on the quality of the cable, and wetter the cable is close by noise sources (powercables etc)

Do note that we are talking about connections between a hub/switch and a device! If you connect your adsl modem directly with your PC with a crossover cable, cable length will be very limited, I think under 10 meters. If your ADSL router has 4 lan ports you'll be OK since it will have the switch built in!

[dominique355]

You might want to consider buying a "Gateway", which is a modem, a router and a wireless access point, all in one. Then you connect your desktop to the gateway by cable and your laptop by wireless and you are free to move around without any cables attached to your laptop.

Here is a good product and you might find it in Panthip Plaza in Bangkok

Linksys

[lopburi3]

I previously ran a 20 meter crossover (home made - cut wires and soldered as crossover) without trouble when had only USB modem and using my computer to network.

[nikster]

1.

Is there a noticeable improvement in quality using a wire connexion over wifi? Especially where speeds are not that great, as in Thailand.

No. The router has 54Mbps, your internet connection 1 or 2Mbps. The router maybe reaches a real world speed of 10Mbps but that's still 5 or 10 times as fast as your DSL line.

Especially where speeds are not that great, as in Thailand, the WiFi doesn't add any additional delay. If you had a 30mbps connection to your house, then you might be able to theoretically notice a WiFi slowdown. But with a 1Mbps or 2Mbps connection - extremely unlikely.

[autonomous_unit]

Actually, the 100 meter limit for ethernet is for a "collision domain" which was the entire set of all hosts in an old-fashioned hub layout. It has to do with the propagation delay of the electrical signal from one transceiver to another, and if this delay is too long the collision-detection feature of ethernet would misbehave. So you could not have 100 meters per connection but 100 meters total between "most distant" hosts with a hub.

With modern switches, the collision domain would be one cable because the switch does packet forwarding rather than electrically bridging the various wires. Also, with full-duplex connections, I think collision detection is not used and it could be OK to exceed 100 meters. Whether you have any problems here would depend on the quality of your cable, as far as signal loss and interference are concerned. I think this is out of spec though, so you probably don't want to exceed 100 meters per full-duplex wire.

[lotus eater]

I thank everyone for their replies. They give me the info - and much more - that I needed. Tomorrow I'll start my search for a long cable. I shall be grateful if someone can tell me in simple terms (a lot of the technical replies did go over my head) how I can be sure I get the better quality cable. I'm in France just now so even if I was technically on the ball there would be bit of a language problem; so it would be best if I could identify the cable myself or write down an internationally familiar spec for the shop.

Or would it be simpler to buy it in Chiang Mai - is there a shop there where something as good as or better than in Paris could be found?

The connexion would be a standard ethernet one. At least that's what I'm using now in Chiang Mai, and I assume nothing will need to change when I move to my new rental in Chiang Rai.

Thanks again.

[autonomous_unit]

For just one cable, you should be able to go to some Pantip-like shop in Chiang Mai and order a custom cable. You want to get cat5, cat5e, or cat6 cable cut to length and the connectors crimped on. (Cat5 cable is the basic minimum for 100baseT ethernet, and the others are higher grades that can carry signals better and with less interference over longer distances. I used cat6 cable at my house but that is because I bought a little gigabit switch at Pantip, and, being ten times faster, gigabit requires better cables.)

From my experience at Pantip in BKK, bulk cable is pretty cheap here. I ended up buying several hundred meters and having it pulled throughout our house by the workers who were doing other interior work such as installing/relocating some lights and power outlets. The connectors and/or wall plates cost more than the wire in my experience with a bunch of cable runs. I ended up using a sack of cat6 grade connectors and a crimping tool that I picked up at a bargain while visiting the U.S.

[lotus eater]

For just one cable, you should be able to go to some Pantip-like shop in Chiang Mai and order a custom cable. You want to get cat5, cat5e, or cat6 cable cut to length and the connectors crimped on. (Cat5 cable is the basic minimum for 100baseT ethernet, and the others are higher grades that can carry signals better and with less interference over longer distances. I used cat6 cable at my house but that is because I bought a little gigabit switch at Pantip, and, being ten times faster, gigabit requires better cables.)

From my experience at Pantip in BKK, bulk cable is pretty cheap here. I ended up buying several hundred meters and having it pulled throughout our house by the workers who were doing other interior work such as installing/relocating some lights and power outlets. The connectors and/or wall plates cost more than the wire in my experience with a bunch of cable runs. I ended up using a sack of cat6 grade connectors and a crimping tool that I picked up at a bargain while visiting the U.S.

Thanks for the info. From that I'm minded to not bother getting the cable here and instead get it when I'm settled into my Chiang Rai house. That will suit me better in many ways - as long as I have the same quality cable, connectors and crimping.

I do however have a question about the connectors and crimping. The cable I have in France, and the short one provided in Chiang Mai by TT&T had a proper connector properly crimped. But when I bought a longer cable at a shop the connectors just seemed attached to the individual wires within the cable; the connection wasn't enclosed; and it soon came loose and stopped functioning. Can I assume that professional crimping is readily available in a thai shop, and not something only done in factories producing these cables to ready-cut lengths for retail sale? This is probably a very naive question - but I ask it anyway.

[lotus eater]

I finally got around to buying a 30 metre cable at Pantip, Chiang Mai to connect modem to my laptop. Didn't work. Took it back and the chap showed me on his hand device checker that it was ok. He says that I must get something called a 'hub' as the modem is not strong enough to work a cable as long as that. (Yet it works with my 10 metre cable.)

Grateful if someone can tell me if the Pantip man's explanation is plausibe. If so would someone please walk me through what I need to do to find and connect this 'hub'? Can I get it easily, eg in Chiang Rai or get in Chiang Mai on my next trip?

Thank you.

[monty]

Do note that we are talking about connections between a hub/switch and a device! If you connect your adsl modem directly with your PC with a crossover cable, cable length will be very limited, I think under 10 meters.

is what I noted when I replied back then!

Even though Lopburi reported to successfully use a 20m cable, it normally is accepted to limit the length of a cable between two devices (PC and a modem) to not more then 10m!

So yes, the explanation of the bloke in the shop is correct. Put a network switch (sometimes mistakenly called a hub, the latter is hardly ever used nowadays) between and you'll be OK for lengths of up to 100m!

Easy to find in any PC shop, costs around 500 Baht (or even less) for a 4 port switch.

Your set-up would be as follows: short cable between modem and switch, and then a cable up to 100m between the switch and your laptop.

If you so wish (but probably less convenient) the switch may also be located at your laptop's side, so that would give: short cable between laptop and switch, and then up to 100m from switch to your modem!

Cheers

[triffid]

Do note that we are talking about connections between a hub/switch and a device! If you connect your adsl modem directly with your PC with a crossover cable, cable length will be very limited, I think under 10 meters.

is what I noted when I replied back then!

Even though Lopburi reported to successfully use a 20m cable, it normally is accepted to limit the length of a cable between two devices (PC and a modem) to not more then 10m!

So yes, the explanation of the bloke in the shop is correct. Put a network switch (sometimes mistakenly called a hub, the latter is hardly ever used nowadays) between and you'll be OK for lengths of up to 100m!

Easy to find in any PC shop, costs around 500 Baht (or even less) for a 4 port switch.

Your set-up would be as follows: short cable between modem and switch, and then a cable up to 100m between the switch and your laptop.

If you so wish (but probably less convenient) the switch may also be located at your laptop's side, so that would give: short cable between laptop and switch, and then up to 100m from switch to your modem!

Cheers

Head duly hung down at my less than careful reading & following of your previous advice. Yes I took away a general 'no problem' message from the other replies.

You say I get a 4 port switch. I'll need 2 adsl/ethernet ports for cables to the modem and the computor; but what are the other 2 ports for? Or perhaps these things only come with 4 ports? Anyway I'll go look for it.

Thanks.

[brizzle]

Do note that we are talking about connections between a hub/switch and a device! If you connect your adsl modem directly with your PC with a crossover cable, cable length will be very limited, I think under 10 meters.

is what I noted when I replied back then!

Even though Lopburi reported to successfully use a 20m cable, it normally is accepted to limit the length of a cable between two devices (PC and a modem) to not more then 10m!

So yes, the explanation of the bloke in the shop is correct. Put a network switch (sometimes mistakenly called a hub, the latter is hardly ever used nowadays) between and you'll be OK for lengths of up to 100m!

Easy to find in any PC shop, costs around 500 Baht (or even less) for a 4 port switch.

Your set-up would be as follows: short cable between modem and switch, and then a cable up to 100m between the switch and your laptop.

If you so wish (but probably less convenient) the switch may also be located at your laptop's side, so that would give: short cable between laptop and switch, and then up to 100m from switch to your modem!

Cheers

monty

My neighbour wants to run a 60m cable from my modem to his laptop. I have a linksys wrt54gl router with 4 port switch running to my modem.If I connect him to one of this router / switch's ports will this do essentially the same job or do I need to purchase a separate 4 point switch and connect him up to that?

Many thanks.

Edited January 12, 2008 by brizzle

[Crossy]

My neighbour wants to run a 60m cable from my modem to his laptop. I have a linksys wrt54gl router with 4 port switch running to my modem.If I connect him to one of this router / switch's ports will this do essentially the same job or do I need to purchase a separate 4 point switch and connect him up to that?

Yep, that should work just fine. Test it first with the cable length if you wish before you pull it, but there should be no issues.

Why not use the wireless since the router already has it?

[brizzle]

My neighbour wants to run a 60m cable from my modem to his laptop. I have a linksys wrt54gl router with 4 port switch running to my modem.If I connect him to one of this router / switch's ports will this do essentially the same job or do I need to purchase a separate 4 point switch and connect him up to that?

Yep, that should work just fine. Test it first with the cable length if you wish before you pull it, but there should be no issues.

Why not use the wireless since the router already has it?

Tell me about it!..thats very true Crossy...however despite copious hours being spent trying to get him connected on the wireless I have had no success.I have two pc's both which connect fine and a friend has also successfully used his pc on my wireless. My neighbour gets an excellent signal and can connect to the wireless when signing on to the network but as soon as he trys IE he gets web page not found etc etc. Had someone from TOT around my house by chance the other week and asked his advice.He tryed to get my neighbour connected but on failing then said it was something to do with the laptop coming from Germany/Holland (my neighbour is Dutch) and that he knew of other people from this region that have had problems when trying to connect in Thailand. Also mentioned something about Bluetooth(which I thought had more to do with wireless mobile phones etc) but don't know what relevance this has if any or whether the whole of what he told me was in fact nonsence. My neighbours laptop is an old acer..approx 4 years old so maybe it needs some upgrading or something to connect to wireless here? As a fnal effort we went to an "expert" at Big C who had previously helped me resolve a problem of my own laptop.He spent over an hour trying to connect to several free wireless networks in the area before giving up saying that my neighbours wireless facility was "locked"???

Any real experts out there?