22 August Small Aircraft Crash in Chachoengsao.

[Captain Flack]

A troll post referencing covid vaccines has been removed.

[Hummin]

5 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

"More than half (54 percent) of all aviation accidents in the NTSB's database involve either a Cessna (25,865 crashes), Piper (14,105 crashes)or Beech (5,098) aircraft"

 

It's not surprising that Cessna, Piper and Beech make up so many of the incidents given the huge numbers of those makes, compared to others, in American skies.

 

Highlighting their record, given their numerical dominance, seems somewhat disingenuous.

 

 

 

There is a quote on that specific model as well, and Cessna 172 is probably the most sold single engine for consumers (amateur pilots) marked, so no wonder they have an high statistic on accidents and fatalities. 

 

The main problem is lack of maintenance, not using original parts, pilot errors and weather. Overlaod leading to stalling the plane have also been a problem during take off.

Edited August 23 by Hummin

[Patong2021]

17 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

A Cessna Caravan has been a very relialbe aircraft.  It is a slow mover(under 180 Knots cruise in most cases).   Generally used to land in short and in many cases soft or rough landing areas.  Has been a good fit for rural and out of way areas.  A single engine turboprop workhouse for many companies.  I wonder what the weather was like at the time fo the crash? 

 

Lastly, I wouldn't exactly call a Cessna Caravan a small aircraft.  A Cessna 172 is a small aircraft.  But as always TIT. 

 

I  believe the description was accurate. Regulators consider the Cessna Caravan a small aircraft. For reference sake, the aircraft specs are;

Cessna Caravan -  Empty weight: 4,730 lb (2,145 kg), Gross weight: 8,000 lb (3,629 kg)

Capacity: 2 Crew and 9 passengers.

 

1. ICAO defines a "Large aeroplane." as an aeroplane of a maximum certificated take-off mass of over 5 700 kg

Therefore, a small aeroplane would be of lower weight.

 

2. US FAA definition Small Airplanes, Commuter Category

Maximum takeoff weight of 19,000 lbs (8,618 kg) 

Maximum passenger seating capacity of 19

 

3. Australia civil aviation regulations define a 'Smaller aeroplane'  as:

-a maximum operational passenger seating capacity of nine

-a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 8,618 kg or less.

 

It will be interesting to see if this was an aircraft purchased from the USA, or if it was  one of the kits assembled in China. Determining the cause of crash is going to be difficult if the aircraft cannot be recovered for examination

 

[Georgealbert]

August 23,16.00, Authorities have called off the search for the remains of the passengers and pilots of the aircraft.
 

Police and  rescue teams from Chachoengsao decided to halt the search after thoroughly scouring the crash site and determining no further remains or debris could be found.
 

All plane parts were washed at the scene and moved to the 11th Infantry Battalion at Somdet Phra Nangklao Camp, Chachoengsao, where they await further investigation.

 

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Mr. Anutin assured that aviation regulations are stringent and meticulously followed: spare parts are replaced strictly according to the mandated flight hours. Addressing concerns about the impact on tourism, he stated that while accidents are always a risk, adherence to regulations is paramount to safety and public confidence.

Yeah okay Khun Anutin the flight engineer.

Your statement is not needed and offers nothing to this tragic accident.

Thailands track record on aircraft maintenance and meticulous record keeping is widely known.

[Not saying this was the cause of this accident]

[thesetat2013]

13 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Short CCTV clip from distance captures the final moments, the aircraft seems to falling vertically downwards. Aircraft is not certainly not flying with any control.

 

obvious to see the plane came down at a 90 degree angle. These planes are well known for being able to glide without using the engine. So what could have caused it to go straight down. Pilot suicide or passenger attacking the pilot? Mechanical failure that prevented their changing the descent horizontally? Any ideas guys? 

[ardsong]

a possible reason could be stall. this is caused by too low airspeed and loss of lift on the wings. Though it is possible to recover from stall, you have to be quick and precise else it could lead to a spin, more difficult to recover and ultimately a

nose dive.

Edited August 24 by ardsong
add info

[BKKBike09]

47 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

obvious to see the plane came down at a 90 degree angle. These planes are well known for being able to glide without using the engine. So what could have caused it to go straight down. Pilot suicide or passenger attacking the pilot? Mechanical failure that prevented their changing the descent horizontally? Any ideas guys? 

 

It's a grim clip to watch. Weather was good. Doesn't appear to have been in-flight breakup. So some sort of mechanical failure/issue or human-induced event seems most likely.

 

If mechanical possibly could be trim runaway. Trim runaway at high speed can be very dangerous. The force required to overcome the runaway can be very great - if not unrecoverable. Recovery from an event that starts at just 5,000 feet could be very hard, especially if unexpected and autopilot engaged (so not hand flying). 

 

There was a Caravan accident in Alaska in 2014 that NTSB considered to have been caused by trim runaway:

 

"Simulated airplane performance calculations showed that, during a pitch trim excursion, the control forces required to counter an anomaly increases to unmanageable levels unless the appropriate remedial procedures are quickly applied. Given the simulated airplane performance calculations, the trim actuator measurements, and the check airman's known training routine, it is likely that the check airman simulated a pitch trim excursion and that the SIC, who lacked experience in the airplane type, did not appropriately respond to the excursion. The check airman did not take remedial action and initiate the recovery procedure in time to prevent the control forces from becoming unmanageable and to ensure that recovery from the associated dive was possible."

https://asn.flightsafety.org/reports/2014/20140408_C208_N126AR.pdf

 

I'm sure these guys trained for trim runaway scenarios (knowing location of trim circuit breaker should be a memory item) but again, at low altitude and cruise speed, not a lot of time.

 

All speculation. I suspect we will never know unless NTSB is asked to become involved and they can recover trim actuators etc.

 

RIP. 

 

[1happykamper]

The plane was driven 10 meters into the mud? 

 

Unless the wings came off.. I'm guessing this was deliberate... a passenger did it? Planes fly.. Even with no power. They do not hit the ground perpendicular 

[sandyf]

22 minutes ago, ardsong said:

a possible reason could be stall. this is caused by too low airspeed and loss of lift on the wings. Though it is possible to recover from stall, you have to be quick and precise else it could lead to a spin, more difficult to recover and ultimately a

nose dive.

That was my first thought that for some reason the aircraft had stalled with insufficient height for recovery but it is reported that the pilot was very experienced and in good weather.

With the damage to the aircraft may be difficult to establish mechanical failure in the control system.

A lot may depend on any messages that may have been recorded but not yet mentioned. 

[Georgealbert]

UPDATE
 

CAAT Reports Routine Aircraft Inspections; No Irregularities Found in Recent Checks, Investigating the Cause of the Latest Accident

 

The Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand (CAAT) has confirmed that routine aircraft inspections are conducted regularly, and no irregularities were found during the mid-year inspections of this aircraft. CAAT is now accelerating efforts to help investigate the cause of the accident.

 

CAAT has contacted Thai Flying Service Co., Ltd. to discuss measures for caring for and compensating passengers after flight TFT209 was involved in the accident. Thai Flying Service is currently coordinating with insurance companies to finalise compensation arrangements. The company’s insurance policy, which covers passengers, pilots, baggage, and third parties, is valid until March 31, 2025, and covers the current incident.

 

Thai Flying Service has additional aircraft available for operation and currently runs four daily flights between Bangkok and Koh Mai Si. The company is conducting thorough checks on both aircraft and pilots before resuming operations. Passengers affected by service disruptions are advised to contact their travel managers to arrange alternative transportation, such as traveling to Trat Airport and using shuttle services to their accommodations on the island.

 

In its supervisory role, CAAT is responsible for issuing the Certification of Airworthiness (CoA) ensuring that the aircraft meets all safety standards. The aircraft involved in the accident received its CoA on February 4, 2023, valid until February 3, 2025.
 

Thai Flying Service, as a passenger transport airline, must also have a robust safety management system in place. CAAT oversees this by inspecting the airline's safety system before issuing the Air Operator Certificate (AOC). The airline is also required to report maintenance records to CAAT every six months, with the most recent report submitted on June 17, 2024, which showed no abnormalities.

 

Additionally, CAAT conducts regular audits, including Base Audits and Ramp Inspections. Thai Flying Service's latest Base Audit for 2024 took place between July 23-26, and the most recent Ramp Inspection was conducted on July 30, 2024. No issues were found with the aircraft during these inspections.

 

CAAT has sent officers to observe the ongoing investigation into the accident. The investigation is under the control of the Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigation Committee (AAIIC), which will work to determine the cause of the accident.

 

-- 2024-08-24

 

 

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[Grusa]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Yeah okay Khun Anutin the flight engineer.

Your statement is not needed and offers nothing to this tragic accident.

Thailands track record on aircraft maintenance and meticulous record keeping is widely known.

[Not saying this was the cause of this accident]

Not that I like the gentleman, in his defense Khun Anutin is an aeroplane owner and pilot, so knows at least a little bit about it.

[Georgealbert]

Identification of Air Crash Victims Progresses, ID of Four Bodies Confirmed

 

On August 24, Police Lieutenant General Trirong Phiwphan, Commissioner of the Police Forensic Science Office, Royal Thai Police, provided an update on the progress of identifying the victims of the recent small aircraft crash in Bang Pakong District, Chachoengsao Province.
 

Authorities have successfully identified four victims so far, all of whom are Thai nationals, including the pilot, co-pilot, and two crew members. These identifications were confirmed through clear fingerprint records available in the Automated Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS) of the Police Forensic Science Office, using both hand and foot prints. The identification process is now considered almost 50% complete.

 

In addition, the collection and examination of DNA from human remains sent to the forensic department at the Police General Hospital is ongoing. Results for the remaining victims are expected to be available by Monday.

 

Officials are also in the process of coordinating with the relatives of the Chinese passengers on board to confirm their identities. Although authorities already possess the passenger and crew list, the task has been challenging due to the large number of body parts recovered, over 90 pieces in total. This requires thorough DNA testing and verification, a process that will take time.
 

A further update on the identification progress is expected to be announced on Monday.

[ardsong]

4 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

 

 

If mechanical possibly could be trim runaway. Trim runaway at high speed can be very dangerous. The force required to overcome the runaway can be very great - if not unrecoverable. Recovery from an event that starts at just 5,000 feet could be very hard, especially if unexpected and autopilot engaged (so not hand flying). 

 

 

 

Well some 10 minutes in the flight, you may have come to cruise altitude and adjust the trim for easy of controls. who knows?

 

[IsaanT]

I'm an experienced pilot.

A stall appears most unlikely.  The plane was in the cruise, so would have been well above the stall speed.  The weather was also apparently good, so no weather factors, e.g. turbulence.  Even if it did stall, the pilot was very experienced so it's difficult to imagine that a stall couldn't be recovered from 5,000ft.

Cessna Caravans are turboprops, so the engine (and the flight management thereof) are very reliable.

 

The plane in the video did not appear to be spinning so any unusual attitude recovery should have been more straightforward than if it was.  I, of course, assume that the flight controls were not incapacitated in any way.  Even if they were, planes don't naturally fall vertically like a dart - they will naturally pull out of a dive due to increased lift with increased speed even without pilot input.

I am waiting for more information from the investigation.

[Georgealbert]

The 5 Chinese victims were earlier reported to be from Hong Kong, but the Hong Kong Immigration Department says it has confirmed that no resident was involved in the plane crash which killed five ethnic Chinese passengers.

 

The Special Administrative Region’s authorities also added that no request for assistance had been received, so far, from the Thai government.

[Mitker]

In two instances, the flight path, if accurate, shows a full U turn, with the first one happening early and lasting quite a stretch. Not the typical pattern of an air shuttle.
I'm not an expert, but I'm surprised it isn't even mentioned, since a technical concern could have prompted an attempt to return to BKK, before dismissing the move.
Of course, it could be just the pilots obliging some passenger request to fly over a specific spot or anything as innocuous as this, but checking if any exchange happened with the control at that moment would be interesting imho

[Georgealbert]

11 minutes ago, Mitker said:

In two instances, the flight path, if accurate, shows a full U turn, with the first one happening early and lasting quite a stretch. Not the typical pattern of an air shuttle.
I'm not an expert, but I'm surprised it isn't even mentioned, since a technical concern could have prompted an attempt to return to BKK, before dismissing the move.
Of course, it could be just the pilots obliging some passenger request to fly over a specific spot or anything as innocuous as this, but checking if any exchange happened with the control at that moment would be interesting imho

That flight tracking was from the site below. It will be based on transponder data, and the path does seem a little strange. I also posted the ADS-B data, earlier in this topic, from the same site, which stopped a couple of minutes before the crash.
 

I have no way to verify how accurate this data is, but it is the best publicly available online, but I assume that investigators have access to far better information, and also data maybe downloadable from the data recorder found in the wreckage. That data recorder is not a black box, has limited flight parameters recorded, and is not designed to survive this type of accident, so may be useless.

 

https://www.radarbox.com/data/flights/N208AE/2213074691

[norfolkandchance]

On 8/23/2024 at 4:10 PM, Hummin said:

There is a quote on that specific model as well, and Cessna 172 is probably the most sold single engine for consumers (amateur pilots) marked, so no wonder they have an high statistic on accidents and fatalities. 

 

The main problem is lack of maintenance, not using original parts, pilot errors and weather. Overlaod leading to stalling the plane have also been a problem during take off.

The holes in the Swiss cheese all lining up.

[steven100]

oh dear '   very sad indeed.   There were two young kids on board also.  

The aircraft engine failed and it nosedived so if it ran out of fuel that is terrible. 

not enough fuel

 

very sad indeed.  

 

RIP kids. 

 

[BKKBike09]

On 8/25/2024 at 1:54 PM, Georgealbert said:

That flight tracking was from the site below. It will be based on transponder data, and the path does seem a little strange. I also posted the ADS-B data, earlier in this topic, from the same site, which stopped a couple of minutes before the crash.
 

I have no way to verify how accurate this data is, but it is the best publicly available online, but I assume that investigators have access to far better information, and also data maybe downloadable from the data recorder found in the wreckage. That data recorder is not a black box, has limited flight parameters recorded, and is not designed to survive this type of accident, so may be useless.

 

That ADS-B info is very suspect. I think best to ignore the sudden course changes. It shows two abrupt near 180 degree course reversals in less than 30 seconds and the only way to do that would be through something like hammerhead turns, which you won't be doing in a Caravan. A course reversal would show as a semi-circular track.

 

If you look at the previous flight data for that aircraft from the site you linked, that track also makes no sense. Even I could hand-fly the ILS approach better than this appears to indicate. And again there's an apparently abrupt near 180 course reversal.

 

 

 

 

[Georgealbert]

10 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

That ADS-B info is very suspect. I think best to ignore the sudden course changes. It shows two abrupt near 180 degree course reversals in less than 30 seconds and the only way to do that would be through something like hammerhead turns, which you won't be doing in a Caravan. A course reversal would show as a semi-circular track.

 

If you look at the previous flight data for that aircraft from the site you linked, that track also makes no sense. Even I could hand-fly the ILS approach better than this appears to indicate. And again there's an apparently abrupt near 180 course reversal.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I did say earlier that the site’s accuracy is questionable, so it is good to have it confirmed as suspect, by someone with the knowledge to review it.

[BKKBike09]

On 8/24/2024 at 10:53 PM, IsaanT said:

The plane in the video did not appear to be spinning so any unusual attitude recovery should have been more straightforward than if it was.  I, of course, assume that the flight controls were not incapacitated in any way.  Even if they were, planes don't naturally fall vertically like a dart - they will naturally pull out of a dive due to increased lift with increased speed even without pilot input.

 

The aircraft could have experienced a stall/spin induced by a trim or elevator issue in the cruise. High nose down attitude without rotation could be consistent with recovery attempt. Five thousand feet AGL with an unanticipated departure wouldn't leave much room for recovery. Here's a description of spin recovery in a Grand Caravan:

 

"That same aircraft, when spun at gross weight, forward C of G produced a crisp entry, and compliant recovery. I had installed a G meter, and happy I had. The consistent recovery as at Vne, and at 2.5 to 2.8G (not much room for error in those recoveries). The peak observed descent rate was calculated at 9600 FPM. The aircraft handled very nicely though. It was obviously very well designed in this regard." 

https://www.euroga.org/forums/loading-and-spin-recovery/6992?page=2

 

Here's a clip with comment "I have done these tests in the Grand Caravan. It is a beautiful spinning aircraft, though takes you to the limits in getting it out."

 

Also - not sure I'd be advising any pilot that an aircraft "will naturally pull out of a dive"!

[snoop1130]

Remains of 9 victims of Chachoengsao plane crash recovered

 

 

Forensic officers have recovered the remains of all nine people on board the Cessna Caravan plane which crashed into a mangrove swamp in Bang Pakong district of Chachoengsao province on August 22.

 

They include the captain and his co-pilot, two Thai employees of a hotel on Mai Chee Island in Trat province and five Chinese tourists.

 

Pongthep Sirisawat, an aviation expert from the Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee (AAIC), told Thai PBS today that the search team has found 80% of the plane’s wreckage, which will be used as evidence in the investigation into the cause of the accident.

 

Photo: Thai PBS World

 

Full story: Thai PBS World 2024-08-26

 

 

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[Rimmer]

An unattributed speculative post has been removed also the reply to it

[steven100]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Tragic indeed, but where did you get your information that it ran out of fuel? Did you make it up as there are no reports of causes yet, it is way too early.

The fact that it only took off ten minutes earlier - are you suggesting it took off without enough fuel to fly for more than 10 minutes? Plus reports above say the engine could still be heard as it went down.

Why make stuff up?

I was only suggesting if the fuel was the cause but if it just took off 10 minutes earlier then that's unlikely. That Cessna is a sturdy plane and it can fly without the engine running if needed,   planes don't go down perpendicular .....  they can glide,  so why the nosedive .....  very strange indeed.  

[steven100]

On 8/24/2024 at 10:53 PM, IsaanT said:

I'm an experienced pilot.

A stall appears most unlikely.  The plane was in the cruise, so would have been well above the stall speed.  The weather was also apparently good, so no weather factors, e.g. turbulence.  Even if it did stall, the pilot was very experienced so it's difficult to imagine that a stall couldn't be recovered from 5,000ft.

Cessna Caravans are turboprops, so the engine (and the flight management thereof) are very reliable.

 

The plane in the video did not appear to be spinning so any unusual attitude recovery should have been more straightforward than if it was.  I, of course, assume that the flight controls were not incapacitated in any way.  Even if they were, planes don't naturally fall vertically like a dart - they will naturally pull out of a dive due to increased lift with increased speed even without pilot input.

I am waiting for more information from the investigation.

 

Thank you Khun IsaanT for that informative analysis ...  I learn something new everyday.   

[snoop1130]

DNA tests identify Thai plane crash victims, Chinese tests ongoing

 

Police Lieutenant General Trirong Piwpan, Commander of the Police Forensic Investigation Bureau, announced that DNA tests on remains from a plane crash in Bang Pakong district, Chachoengsao province, identified the four Thai victims. Further tests on the five Chinese passengers are ongoing.

 

Gen. Trirong held a meeting to follow up on the identification process of the deceased from a small plane crash in Bang Pakong, Chachoengsao. The meeting, attended by Major General Watee Asawutmangkul, Commander of the Forensic Science Division, and Major General Supichai Limsivawong, Commander of the Police Hospital, along with other relevant officials, lasted nearly an hour.

 

Following the meeting, Gen. Trirong reported that the Forensic Investigation Bureau had initially identified individuals through fingerprint, palm print, and footprint analysis. Right-hand fingerprints from three samples, left-hand fingerprints from seven samples, right-foot prints from six samples, and left-foot prints from seven samples matched the criminal records of individuals who had previously been registered. This confirmed that the four deceased were all Thai nationals.

 

 

 

 

Major General Supichai Limsivawong stated that of the 154 tissue and bone samples collected, DNA could be extracted from 88 tissue samples and nine bone samples. Genetic analysis identified nine distinct DNA profiles, confirming that they matched the DNA of relatives of the four Thai victims who had been registered to board the flight on the day of the crash. The five Chinese passengers are still undergoing DNA comparison as their relatives only submitted genetic samples recently.

 

Trirong added that all tissue analysis confirmed that the Thai victims matched their Thai relatives. The identification of the five Chinese victims will proceed following thorough DNA testing, which requires more time.

 

When asked about the possibility of returning the remains of the Thai victims to their families for religious ceremonies, Supichai explained that the process could not be completed yet. Despite the confirmed identification, the bone samples must undergo a complete verification process in line with international standards. It is expected that the examination will be finalised by Monday, September 2, reported KhaoSod.

 

By Puntid Tantivangphaisal

Photo courtesy of KhaoSod

 

Source: The Thaiger 2024-08-28

 

 

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