No Passport

[psuvanna]

can anybody help with this matter

I have a friend that took the passport into the embassy but the kept it because they claim that he have to pay up his wife alamony before he can get his passport renew is that ok to do so and you are oversea how u gonna do that. can u suggest??? pleaseeeeeeeee

[Maestro]

Psuvanna, perhaps your friend did not tell you the whole story. At the very least, the embassy would have to give him a travel document, probably a temporary passport, with the limitation that it is valid only for travel to his home country within a certain period, if he cannot or does not want to pay up the arrears in his alimony payments.

Your friend should send a fax to the consulate (fax number perhaps on the consulate’s website), giving a summary of the conversation he had with the consular official, and request an urgent meeting with the consul personally to discuss his options. At the moment, his home country seems to be using a milder form of coercion than, for example, and international arrest warrant.

--------------

Maestro

[hansnl]

It seems to me that not granting a new passport to one of your citizens for a non criminal reason goes against a human right!

Alimony is a private or family concern, not criminal.

Maybe the foreign authorities will aid the US authorities to cash the alimony, but I do not think an international request for an arrest will be made out for not paying alimony.

On the other hand, back in the US with a valid passport, and want to leave the country, then I guess you will not be allowed to leave the country.

However, the US has some strange laws and reasoning,

Maybe not paying alimony to your ex is a criminal offense in the US.

But I doubt if the private law of the US will be recognised outside the US very much.

I should protest vehemently!

[lopburi3]

Who said this has anything to do with the US?

[slapout]

Ok, if this is what your friend told you, tell your friend, to renew your US pasport in Thailand you fill out paper work and show your current passport to get in embassy or consulant, The request with phots are sent to State Department for the new passport to be issued ,and sent to Bangkok. The embassey give you a reciept for monies paid and tell you when to return to pick up your new passport, at which time they notch your old one so it cannot be used. If your friend has outstanding debts for child support he may have a small problem.(pay up) If he owes a ex wife money and the feds know about it and know where he is, its probably a lot more than your friend has indicated. The US has a very effecient system for tracking deadbeat fathers who refuse or skip out on child support. What you have to realize that the passport is not his personal porperty, nor is it the right of an individual to ignore a court order. Maybe your friend is on the dole and living off of welfare and unemployement while having a holiday and its all caught up with him. Tell your friend his story is not believable.

[sbk]

Nowhere did the OP mention his friend was from the US, not sure why you think so, slapout and hansnl.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Nowhere did the OP mention his friend was from the US, not sure why you think so, slapout and hansnl.

Correct, but sure does sound like the guy w/o a passport right now is from the U.S. as the law is pretty clear on folks NOT paying child support at least:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/family/family_863.html

Child Support Payments and Getting a U.S. Passport

Section 51.70 (a) (8) of Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations states, in part, that if you are certified to Passport Services by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to be in arrears of child support payments in excess of $2,500, you are ineligible to receive a U.S. passport . If this applies to you, Passport Services strongly recommends that you contact the appropriate State child support enforcement agency to make payment arrangements before applying for a passport. This is because:

The State agency must certify to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that acceptable payment arrangements have been made.

Then, HHS must notify Passport Services by the removal of your name from the electronic list HHS gives to Passport Services. (Passport Services cannot issue a passport until your name has been deleted by HHS.)

Please note that it can take 2-3 weeks from the time you make payment arrangements with the State agency until your name is removed from HHS' electronic list. Passport Services has no information concerning individuals' child support obligations and has no authority to take action until HHS removes your name from its list.

Please direct any questions to the appropriate State child support enforcement agency. You may go to the Department of Health and Human Services - State Child Support Enforcement Web Site for a listing of HHS state and local agencies.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I couldn't find anything similar about alimony so this probably relates to only child support payments, or lack of same.

Hey, the U.S. Congress passes lots of laws that may seem strange to non U.S. folks, but there's a lot of push these last few years about "deadbeat" dads not taking care of their offspring.  Ex spouses are, I guess, a lesser problem.

Mac

[slapout]

sbk: to answer your statement as to your not sure why I think 'friend' is from US. By taking Muslim countries, Catholic countries, India, China etc.out of the equation I was left with parts of Europe and North America and a few other places who do not appear to be have a lot of travlers to Thailand. As the US has a huge number of lawyers with many being female,attempting to make self serving laws this sounds like something they would try to get on the books. I did not feel most of Europe has not gotten to the same point as the US in this regard. The other considersation was a person explaining to a friend (boy or girl) may think their not paying alimony would be received better than not paying child support. This would seem more so if they were in trouble with Thai police for no passport and needed bail money (if this is even possible). On top of these, thoughts, I can recall a few US citizens who have floated some pertty fanciful tales of woe useing half truths for their own benifit. Maybe I should not have thought that the odds pointed to the USofA as I certainly would not want to upset any of her citizens.

[psuvanna]

Hi sorry I did not tell you is from CANADA

When he left canada he dont want to go back but he need the passport to stay in thailand but the embassy dont want to give him back the old passport either now he feel like a criminal

[britmaveric]

Hi sorry I did not tell you is from CANADA

When he left canada he dont want to go back but he need the passport to stay in thailand but the embassy dont want to give him back the old passport either now he feel like a criminal

Well its really simple - pay the dosh he owes then he can have his passport. Problem Solved.

[psuvanna]

Nowhere did the OP mention his friend was from the US, not sure why you think so, slapout and hansnl.

Correct, but sure does sound like the guy w/o a passport right now is from the U.S. as the law is pretty clear on folks NOT paying child support at least:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/family/family_863.html

Child Support Payments and Getting a U.S. Passport

Section 51.70 (a) (8) of Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations states, in part, that if you are certified to Passport Services by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to be in arrears of child support payments in excess of $2,500, you are ineligible to receive a U.S. passport . If this applies to you, Passport Services strongly recommends that you contact the appropriate State child support enforcement agency to make payment arrangements before applying for a passport. This is because:

The State agency must certify to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that acceptable payment arrangements have been made.

Then, HHS must notify Passport Services by the removal of your name from the electronic list HHS gives to Passport Services. (Passport Services cannot issue a passport until your name has been deleted by HHS.)

Please note that it can take 2-3 weeks from the time you make payment arrangements with the State agency until your name is removed from HHS' electronic list. Passport Services has no information concerning individuals' child support obligations and has no authority to take action until HHS removes your name from its list.

Please direct any questions to the appropriate State child support enforcement agency. You may go to the Department of Health and Human Services - State Child Support Enforcement Web Site for a listing of HHS state and local agencies.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I couldn't find anything similar about alimony so this probably relates to only child support payments, or lack of same.

Hey, the U.S. Congress passes lots of laws that may seem strange to non U.S. folks, but there's a lot of push these last few years about "deadbeat" dads not taking care of their offspring.  Ex spouses are, I guess, a lesser problem.

Mac

can you find anything for canada? what can I do to solve this, with money he dont have a pension yet

[psuvanna]

Hi sorry I did not tell you is from CANADA

When he left canada he dont want to go back but he need the passport to stay in thailand but the embassy dont want to give him back the old passport either now he feel like a criminal

Well its really simple - pay the dosh he owes then he can have his passport. Problem Solved.

he gave her the home the car and so on when he left, he did not think that she will do such stupid thing and she did. He is a nice person to just run away from this but now it seem like it

[simon43]

The alimony will have been set either by a court or by agreement between him and his ex-wife. Either way, the amount that was determined would have been based on your friend's income etc. (IE - they will not pick a figure out of thin air). Therefore, unless youre friend's financial circumstances have changed, he should pay the alimony...

If his circumstances have changed, then he will have to reapply to the courts to get the alimony readjusted. But I cannot see a way out of this unless your friend pays what he owes.

Simon

[psuvanna]

The alimony will have been set either by a court or by agreement between him and his ex-wife. Either way, the amount that was determined would have been based on your friend's income etc. (IE - they will not pick a figure out of thin air). Therefore, unless youre friend's financial circumstances have changed, he should pay the alimony...

If his circumstances have changed, then he will have to reapply to the courts to get the alimony readjusted. But I cannot see a way out of this unless your friend pays what he owes.

Simon

Hi Simon he's not working but he do have some small money to live on and he dont even know how much

[psuvanna]

Hi sorry I did not tell you is from CANADA

When he left canada he dont want to go back but he need the passport to stay in thailand but the embassy dont want to give him back the old passport either now he feel like a criminal

Well its really simple - pay the dosh he owes then he can have his passport. Problem Solved.

easy for you to say

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Nowhere did the OP mention his friend was from the US, not sure why you think so, slapout and hansnl.

Correct, but sure does sound like the guy w/o a passport right now is from the U.S. as the law is pretty clear on folks NOT paying child support at least:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/family/family_863.html

Child Support Payments and Getting a U.S. Passport

Section 51.70 (a) (8) of Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations states, in part, that if you are certified to Passport Services by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to be in arrears of child support payments in excess of $2,500, you are ineligible to receive a U.S. passport . If this applies to you, Passport Services strongly recommends that you contact the appropriate State child support enforcement agency to make payment arrangements before applying for a passport. This is because:

The State agency must certify to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) that acceptable payment arrangements have been made.

Then, HHS must notify Passport Services by the removal of your name from the electronic list HHS gives to Passport Services. (Passport Services cannot issue a passport until your name has been deleted by HHS.)

Please note that it can take 2-3 weeks from the time you make payment arrangements with the State agency until your name is removed from HHS' electronic list. Passport Services has no information concerning individuals' child support obligations and has no authority to take action until HHS removes your name from its list.

Please direct any questions to the appropriate State child support enforcement agency. You may go to the Department of Health and Human Services - State Child Support Enforcement Web Site for a listing of HHS state and local agencies.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I couldn't find anything similar about alimony so this probably relates to only child support payments, or lack of same.

Hey, the U.S. Congress passes lots of laws that may seem strange to non U.S. folks, but there's a lot of push these last few years about "deadbeat" dads not taking care of their offspring.  Ex spouses are, I guess, a lesser problem.

Mac

can you find anything for canada? what can I do to solve this, with money he dont have a pension yet

It sure looks like he'll have to make up back alimony payments in Canada to his Canadian wife before he can get his Canadian passport returned or renewed.

http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/divorce.htm

Enforcement of Child and Spousal Support Payments

The enforcement of a child support order or spousal support order is governed by provincial and territorial legislation.

Federal Laws

--  The latest amendments to the Divorce Act that came into effect on May 1, 1997 greatly strengthened the powers available to enforce child and spousal payment:

New child support guidelines;

--  --  Amendments to the Family Orders and Agreements Enforcement Assistance (FOAEA) so that searches of Revenue Canada data bases will be allowed in order to locate anyone who has breached a family support order;

--  New provisions establish a federal licence denial scheme under which the federal government is empowered to suspend passports, and some federal transport licences where a payer of child support has persistently breached support obligations;

Amendments to the Garnishment, Attachment and Pension Diversion Act to expand access to federal public service employee pension benefits to satisfy support arrears; and

--  Amendments to the Canada Shipping Act to allow the wages of those working at sea to be garnished to enforce a family support obligation;

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The above FEDERAL law appears to relate just to CHILD SUPPORT not to alimony.  However, there's also Provincial Enforcement Programs, in particular, BC, that apply to alimony:

"If the payor owes more than $3,000.00 in maintenance:  requesting the federal government to suspend, refuse to issue or renew the payor's passport and/or federal aviation or marine licence."

All together I think it's probably best to go back to the Canadian embassy here and ask specifically what can be done.  

Mac

[slapout]

psuvanna: sorry for accusing your friend of being from US. I still think my earlier posts should give you food for thought. Bless the maple leaf country, you have surpassed the legal beagles down south with your nets to trap the dead beats who fly the coop. If we had been playing hand grenade we would have been spot on (mod)

[hansnl]

So sorry to presume that his was all US-based.

However, I was not very far off the mark, Canada is next door, and from what I hear also very much into stupid laws, being a neighbour of the US.

I still believe it is illegal to withold your passport while not being in your own country!

Bringing back the validity, I have heard before.

But leaving a citizen without a passport outside your own borders, now that is criminal, and in my view, higly illegal.

But who am I?

[hansnl]

By the way, I am from The Netherlands.

And that is a champion stupid law country!

So please do not think I am anti US or Canada.

I have some friends from the US, and we tend to amuse each other with tales of woe about stupid laws, and lawmakers.

[Taggart]

can anybody help with this matter

I have a friend that took the passport into the embassy but the kept it because they claim that he have to pay up his wife alamony before he can get his passport renew is that ok to do so and you are oversea how u gonna do that. can u suggest??? pleaseeeeeeeee

I don't understand. Didn't the Canadian Embassy official explain to your friend how to go about paying the alimony? If I were your friend, I would be trying to clear this up with the embassy a.s.a.p. If it was me over there, I would be worried of the consequences if the Thai police, at anytime, anywhere, asked me to produce a passport, and I couldn't do so.

[roskruge]

There is always the possibility “psuvanna’s” friend has Duel Nationality and the Canadian Authorities know this. I think Canada is one of the countries that permits this along with Australia and Britain allowing it citizens to have Duel Nationality therefor two Passports.

But if your friend entered Thailand on a Canadian Passport, and he still is a Canadian Citizen. Canada has the responsibility for him therefore they would be obliged to give him a Passport for a one way trip to Canada on sight of a one way air ticket. That is if he is a Canadian citizen and the confiscated Passport is genuine.

But if he entered Thailand on a Passport other than a Canadian Passport. Now that is a different matter then Canada is not obliged to give him a new Passport subject to the debt being paid.

[Maestro]

There is always the possibility “psuvanna’s” friend has Duel Nationality and the Canadian Authorities know this.

Perhaps the OP’s friend is in fact a Martian and the Canadian government wants him for experiments. In other words, roskruge, your post is idle speculation and off topic.

From what the OP has told us her friend is overdue on his alimony payments, he does not want to pay it, and he does not want to return to his home country, Canada. For this reason he does not want to discuss with the consul the possible option of getting a temporary passport with the limitation that it is valid only for travel to Canada within a limited period.

So you could say that this gentleman is between a rock and a hard place: pay up, or remain in Thailand without passport.

--

Maestro

[Taggart]

Hi sorry I did not tell you is from CANADA

When he left canada he dont want to go back but he need the passport to stay in thailand but the embassy dont want to give him back the old passport either now he feel like a criminal

Aside from the embassy in Thailand, your friend could also contact the emergency number at Foreign Affairs.

In a number of countries, you can also call the 24/7 Operations Centre toll-free.

From the link here's the number to call from Thailand:

001-800-156-220-0142