Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[OJAS]

18 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Everyone is waiting for the release of the new tax forms and the associated instructions, I understand that is scheduled for November or December.

 

And this will presumably also be the first time we'll hear of any changes to allowances and exemptions for the 2024 Thai tax year. Whereas in the UK's case, for example, there will probably be several months' notice given of any changes to allowances and exemptions effective from the start of the next UK tax year on 6 April 2025 in Rachel Reeves' budget statement on 30 October.

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, Lorry said:

Not criticizing your post, just stumbling over how their AI equates (supposedly rich) "abroad" with "the West" (wherever that may be - Korea?).

Talk about AI bias.

You simply asked for a source and some stats, and I supplied a link. 

 

Is the information in the link wrong?  If so, can you post a link showing very few Thai's live overseas, sending money back to Thailand? 

[thomago]

On 10/12/2024 at 12:32 PM, RupertIII said:

That would appear to be correct, see below.  My wife queried this when she was at the tax office earlier this year and they appeared to confirm and asked if there was documentary evidence to support.

 

The Inheritance Tax Act B.E. 2558 (2015) (“ITA”) took effect on 1^st of February 2016. It stipulates the following:

1. Inheritance Tax

a. Tax Base

The inheritance tax base shall be calculated from the inheritance, which an inheritor received from each testator, whether it is received once or several times, above 100 Million THB. (Section 12, ITA). The value of the inheritance subject to tax means the value of the asset received as an inheritance offset by the liabilities inherited.

The tax is levied on inheritors who are:

1.    Thai individuals or Thai juristic persons or foreign individuals who are resident in Thailand according to the immigration law, which inheriting assets located in Thailand and outside the country.

2.    Foreign individuals or foreign juristic persons, which inherit assets located in Thailand. (Section 11, ITA)

The spouse of the testator is exempted from inheritance tax. (Section 3(2), ITA)

Foreigners who are resident in Thailand, shall be liable to pay Inheritance Tax in the portion which exceed 100 million THB, calculated from the inherited assets in Thailand and foreign countries. Foreigner who are non-resident in Thailand, shall be liable to pay Inheritance Tax in the portion which exceed 100 million THB, calculated from only inheriting asset in Thailand.

The inheritance tax rate is 10%, except in the case of heirs who are ascendants or descendants of the testator, where the rate is 5%. Legacies received by the spouse of a testator are exempt from the tax.

The inheritance tax applies to registered assets, including residential properties, land, vehicles, bonds, equities, and deposits at financial institutions. (Section 14, ITA)

 

Do the 100 million THB of tax-exempt allowance apply only once to the entire estate or to each individual inheritor?

 

Example: Total estate value is 300 million THB distributed via legal testament in Thailand as follow:

 

- Legal Thai wife: 100 million THB

- Legal Thai son: 100 million THB

- Legal Thai daughter: 100 million THB

 

The legal Thai wife would be exempt from Thai inheritance tax.

 

The remaining estate value would be 200 million THB for the legal son and daughter.

 

What about the legal Thai son and daughter? Would they each have a personal tax-exempt allowance of 100 million THB, or would they need to pay 5% on the remaining estate value exceeding 100 million THB?

 

I have received conflicting legal information on that subject and would appreciate your opinion.

 

[stat]

On 10/12/2024 at 2:40 AM, StraightTalk said:

In light of persistent disruptions from certain posters that require moderators to intervene with warnings and bans, I propose that esteemed contributors like 'Dogmatix', 'Mike Lister', and 'chiang mai' advocate for the creation of a 'closed' forum on Aseannow, similar to one once moderated by 'cherryl' (Women related). Initially open to all, this forum would swiftly restrict disruptive posters—after three strikes—from posting, while allowing them to continue reading threads. This measure, crucial for maintaining decorum and relevance on important topics such as taxes, warrants serious consideration. It could also attract past and new contributors weary of perpetual conflicts and disruptions.

Those disrupters could then create their own tax forum if they wish...

I label you a disruptor and to be deported to a closed forum...

[stat]

On 10/12/2024 at 3:55 AM, jayboy said:

 

You obviously haven't read/digested the WB report which makes it clear Thailand's tax problem is far more than under performance on PIT.

 

As to credit cards, the debate is surely not whether transactions with a foreign card are assessable (it looks as though most may be unless paid for with non assessable funds) but whether there the slightest chance of TRD monitoring/taking action on these transactions.

One of the big advantages of using a credit card is that it does not show up on the immediate radar of TRD. So even if you can perfectly prove you pay your cc debt with funds from before 2024 you do not need to prove it and it also saves you the hassle of printing out tons of documents etc.

[stat]

On 10/12/2024 at 7:05 AM, chiang mai said:

That's a scenario that is beyond paranoia!

 

 

Standard procedures in a lot of tax jurisdictions. If you do not provide evidence the IRS makes a guess of how much you earned and rest assured it is the worst case.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

One of the big advantages of using a credit card is that it does not show up on the immediate radar of TRD. So even if you can perfectly prove you pay your cc debt with funds from before 2024 you do not need to prove it and it also saves you the hassle of printing out tons of documents etc.

Remittances don't show up on their immediate radar either. The only time such things do come into play is when a return is queried or suspicions are raised. It's not as if TRD is sitting watching transactions flow back and forth, that's not what they do or how they operate, in the main.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

Standard procedures in a lot of tax jurisdictions. If you do not provide evidence the IRS makes a guess of how much you earned and rest assured it is the worst case.

Estimated tax liabilities are a very different thing from deducting tax from all remittances.

[stat]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Estimated tax liabilities are a very different thing from deducting tax from all remittances.

There is a missunderstanding. The OP was referring to being placed in the highest tax bracket as being paranoid or at least that is the way I understood it. Highly unlikely that the will deduct tax from all remittances. However it is very possible that if you do not provide evidence TRD could simply assume at the tax declaration all your remittances are taxable until you prove they are not.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

There is a missunderstanding. The OP was referring to being placed in the highest tax bracket as being paranoid or at least that is the way I understood it. Highly unlikely that the will deduct tax from all remittances. However it is very possible that if you do not provide evidence TRD could simply assume at the tax declaration all your remittances are taxable until you prove they are not.

As a principle, possibly, in practise, not without something more than just remittances. Revenue has to have some basis for believing the remittances are all income, apart from just their existence alone.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, stat said:

One of the big advantages of using a credit card is that it does not show up on the immediate radar of TRD.

Indeed. Somebody on this forum suggested TRD will go out and canvass merchants about farang credit card purchases. Think about that scenario for awhile, if you'd like a good chuckle.

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

You simply asked for a source and some stats, and I supplied a link. 

 

Is the information in the link wrong?  If so, can you post a link showing very few Thai's live overseas, sending money back to Thailand? 

You are too sensitive.

I told you I am not criticizing you (or the contents of the link), and thanks for the link.

I don't think the information is wrong. 

[KhunHeineken]

35 minutes ago, Lorry said:

You are too sensitive.

I told you I am not criticizing you (or the contents of the link), and thanks for the link.

I don't think the information is wrong. 

Not sensitive at all.

 

You asked another member for some stats.  I jumped in and posted a link with some stats.  

 

So, do you accept there are over a million Thai's living and working abroad, with many of them remitting money to Thailand every month?   If you don't, can you post a link showing otherwise?  If you can, I would be interested in reading it. 

[stat]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. Somebody on this forum suggested TRD will go out and canvass merchants about farang credit card purchases. Think about that scenario for awhile, if you'd like a good chuckle.

They could "just" get that info from Visa and Mastercard. But highly unlikely in the coming 24 months.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. Somebody on this forum suggested TRD will go out and canvass merchants about farang credit card purchases. Think about that scenario for awhile, if you'd like a good chuckle.

No Gant, nobody said that at all. What was said is that all Visa & Mastercard transactions involving foreign cards, are reported  by Visa/Mastercard Thailand, to BOT, because of their foreign exchange implications. But you knew that.

[offset]

Why are people worried about how to bring money over I thought it was only taxed on money earned and brought over, not all money transferred 

 

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, offset said:

Why are people worried about how to bring money over I thought it was only taxed on money earned and brought over, not all money transferred 

 

 

That's basically correct, only income is potentially taxable.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

No Gant, nobody said that at all. What was said is that all Visa & Mastercard transactions involving foreign cards, are reported  by Visa/Mastercard Thailand, to BOT, because of their foreign exchange implications. But you knew that.

Sorry, my mistake. I thought someone had suggested TRD was going to investigate farang credit card charges. But since that's ludicrous, I'll go along with any investigation stopping at BOT, per your take on the subject.

[Bluetongue]

I’m glad that in the thousands of pages I’m still no clearer, I’m waiting for what I don’t know. What I do know is that I won’t be running into a RD office begging to pay tax on money that is either savings or as I believe a government service pension exempted by a DTA despite what some spiv working for some supposed expat accountant says

[Lopburikid]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:54 PM, Mike Lister said:

This thread is a continuation of what was previously known as the long Tax thread which is linked here. The old thread, Part I, has been closed because it had become too long and unwieldy for members to usefully navigate.

 

Several related tax threads exist and these are listed and linked below, this list will be updated as soon as new related threads are started.

 

The Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand, initially referred to as the Simple Tax Guide, is  here.

 

Links to Thai Tax Consultancies  is here. 

 

Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax is here.

 

Feedback from Revenue Contacts is here. 

 

A discussion on Gift Tax is here (to be created)

 

A link to the TRD English language site, containing tax forms, instructions, tax guide and useful extracts from the tax code, here.

 

Copies of all Dual Tax Agreements' here.

 

 

Been to 2 different Regional tax offices. (just last week), Both had to phone head office in Bangkok. ALL knew nothing about taxing foreigners. All asked what visa I was on, I said LTR, ALL replied " no tax on retirement pensions".  They checked all my paper work I had taken, House agreement, passport, paper work from pensions department UK, UK tax code, Military pension paperwork. Thai bank statements, They had no idea of what to do with it. I asked if i needed a tax code, they laughed and said, no, you not pay Thai tax.

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Lopburikid said:

 

Thailand doesn't use tax codes.

 

It seems odd that you would visit two different regional offices because only the one that manages the area that you live in would be interested in you, the other would redirect you.

 

Where was this?

 

The response from Bangkok not knowing anything about this is not credible, sorry.

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

I’m glad that in the thousands of pages I’m still no clearer, I’m waiting for what I don’t know. What I do know is that I won’t be running into a RD office begging to pay tax on money that is either savings or as I believe a government service pension exempted by a DTA despite what some spiv working for some supposed expat accountant says

Maybe the first time you will encounter a problem will be at a boarder, trying to leave, after being inside Thailand for more than 180 days. 

 

Do let us know if you still managed to catch your flight. 

 

Did you ever consider you MAY need a document from the TRD showing your pension is a government service pension, thus covered under a DTA? 

Edited October 13 by KhunHeineken

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Sorry, my mistake. I thought someone had suggested TRD was going to investigate farang credit card charges. But since that's ludicrous, I'll go along with any investigation stopping at BOT, per your take on the subject.

I understand that you're trolling Gant but others may not.

 

It's not that difficult to imagine information/data passing from BOT to TRD or that TRD is an end user of BOT data and that TRD has investigative abilities of Mastercard/Visa data.

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, stat said:

They could "just" get that info from Visa and Mastercard. But highly unlikely in the coming 24 months.

Exactly.  They COULD, but probably won't, but COULD.  Up 2 them. 

 

They do get "spend" amounts of different nationalities of tourists from Visa Card and MasterCard, so the ability is already there to do so.  

[chiang mai]

Just for info:

 

For those members who think TRD is thousands of grey metal desks and mountains of paper......A four year old press release by TRD, updating everyone about their activities, the link below:

 

"Data integration between internal databases and external databases, from both
public and private sectors, 42 organizations in total, such as Office of the National Anti-Corruption Commission, Office of the Narcotics Control Board, Anti-Money Laundering Office, Office of Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission, etc".

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/news/englishnews70_2563.pdf

 

Secondly, a BOT write up about Bahtnet which is the Thai equivalent of BACS, CHAPS, or ACH. Many inbound foreign remittances arrive in your account via the Bahtnet system, my pension payments do which are transferred from Bangkok after they arrive from overseas.

 

https://www.bot.or.th/en/our-roles/payment-systems/Payment-systems.html

 

And finally, the working relationship and data sharing between BOT and TRD, oopsie daisy!

 

The Bank of Thailand (BOT) and the Thai Revenue Department have a working relationship to develop and improve payment systems, including the National Digital Identity Infrastructure (NDID) platform: 

NDID

• The BOT and other government agencies and the private sector developed the NDID platform to support cross-agency data exchanges for identity verification and authentication. The NDID platform can be used for a variety of financial transactions, including filing personal income tax. 

[anrcaccount]

10 hours ago, chiang mai said:

12 hours ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. Somebody on this forum suggested TRD will go out and canvass merchants about farang credit card purchases. Think about that scenario for awhile, if you'd like a good chuckle.

No Gant, nobody said that at all. What was said is that all Visa & Mastercard transactions involving foreign cards, are reported  by Visa/Mastercard Thailand, to BOT, because of their foreign exchange implications. But you knew that.

So firstly, you say.... no one is saying TRD will canvass foreign credit card purchases, and the transactions are reported to BOT for foreign exchange purposes.

 

Then, you post a whole wall of text outlining the data sharing capabilities and relationships between the BOT and the TRD, and commenting on the TRDs "investigative abilities" to credit cards.

Clearly insinuating/implying that people should be worried.........

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, anrcaccount said:

So firstly, you say.... no one is saying TRD will canvass foreign credit card purchases, and the transactions are reported to BOT for foreign exchange purposes.

 

Then, you post a whole wall of text outlining the data sharing capabilities and relationships between the BOT and the TRD, and commenting on the TRDs "investigative abilities" to credit cards.

Clearly insinuating/implying that people should be worried.........

 

 

 

Grown up intelligent people are able to view the two things as being separate and different,  the first refuting an untrue statement by a member, the second demonstrating BOT's and TRD data reach and data sharing capabilities, but not mentioning credit card suppliers specifically. If you want to conclude what you have, that's on you, I haven't insinuated anything. 

 

Given you history and track record, you need to stop stalking me and challenging everything I have to say on the subject of tax or I will raise a formal complaint.

[anrcaccount]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Thailand doesn't use tax codes.

 

It seems odd that you would visit two different regional offices because only the one that manages the area that you live in would be interested in you, the other would redirect you.

 

Where was this?

 

The response from Bangkok not knowing anything about this is not credible, sorry.

Again, dismiss and denigrate the content of real world reports from readers on their tax experiences.

 

These reports are more useful than most of the theoretical ramblings (mine included!!!) that make up 99% of this thread.

Here's what the user reports: 

Been to 2 different Regional tax offices. (just last week), Both had to phone head office in Bangkok. ALL knew nothing about taxing foreigners. All asked what visa I was on, I said LTR, ALL replied " no tax on retirement pensions".  They checked all my paper work I had taken, House agreement, passport, paper work from pensions department UK, UK tax code, Military pension paperwork. Thai bank statements, They had no idea of what to do with it. I asked if i needed a tax code, they laughed and said, no, you not pay Thai tax.

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Again, dismiss and denigrate the content of real world reports from readers on their tax experiences.

 

These reports are more useful than most of the theoretical ramblings (mine included!!!) that make up 99% of this thread.

Here's what the user reports: 

Been to 2 different Regional tax offices. (just last week), Both had to phone head office in Bangkok. ALL knew nothing about taxing foreigners. All asked what visa I was on, I said LTR, ALL replied " no tax on retirement pensions".  They checked all my paper work I had taken, House agreement, passport, paper work from pensions department UK, UK tax code, Military pension paperwork. Thai bank statements, They had no idea of what to do with it. I asked if i needed a tax code, they laughed and said, no, you not pay Thai tax.

 

 

 

 

Complaint raised.

Edited October 14 by chiang mai

[JimGant]

50 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Given you history and track record, you need to stop stalking me and challenging everything I have to say on the subject of tax or I will raise a formal complaint.

Wow! Talk about overly sensitive. Somebody on this forum has to analyze your assertions, as sometimes they're weak and misleading. This is particularly true with credit card purchases: It's just a real stretch that TRD would waste resources to go over credit card purchases, even just large ones, to call in for questioning the credit card's owner -- after determining he's a tax resident -- to see if the credit card bill was paid off with assessable, or non assessable, income. Easy to prove non assessable, if a monthly direct debit from an account holding only non assessable funds. But, even if an account with co-mingled funds -- how are you going to easily sort that out? Anyway, the reader here needs to see counters to your analyses -- so he has more input than just yours, from which to make decisions, or to quell unnecessary worry (your specialty).

 

Some (or maybe just one) have called for the criticisers of your statements to be banished. Not a good idea, if this -- and related threads -- are to serve for the reader to make decisions in the absence of hard facts. That three or four of us here find your "facts" sometimes suspect -- well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

And for you to say you'll "raise a formal complaint" against a poster who challenged your assertions -- just makes it more important that you continue to be challenged.