Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[marino28]

On 10/22/2024 at 5:31 AM, chiang mai said:

While another poster in a different thread about tax tells us that the TRD e-filing system appears to have been updated with an option for foreign income.....anyone shed any light on this?

 

 

 

this one is interesting 

[chiang mai]

The following is not PIT related but instead describes changes to corporate tax as a result of GMT Pillar II implementation. It's interesting because it looks at the bigger tax picture but also discusses development to BOI incentives from a corporate perspective. 

 

https://mahanakornpartners.com/overview-of-thailands-implementation-of-the-global-minimum-tax-gmt-under-pillar-ii/

[stat]

On 10/25/2024 at 11:12 AM, chiang mai said:

The following is not PIT related but instead describes changes to corporate tax as a result of GMT Pillar II implementation. It's interesting because it looks at the bigger tax picture but also discusses development to BOI incentives from a corporate perspective. 

 

https://mahanakornpartners.com/overview-of-thailands-implementation-of-the-global-minimum-tax-gmt-under-pillar-ii/

It is important to understand that there is no! drive for a global minimum tax on personal income whatsoever, neither ww nor in Thailand.

[chiang mai]

Just now, stat said:

It is important to understand that there is no! drive for a global minimum tax on personal income whatsoever, neither ww nor in Thailand.

I never said or believed there was!

[stat]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I never said or believed there was!

Some people mix up corp and individual taxes and believe there is a trend towards minimum PIT taxation. Off topic anyway...

[stat]

Article in a newspaper claiming all tax residents must hand in a tax declaration for 2024.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/10/30/new-citizenship-path-for-foreign-residents-in-thailand-agreed-by-cabinet-interior-ministry-to-frame/

 

No idea if there is any substance to the article, do not shoot the messenger.

[andre47]

8 hours ago, stat said:

Article in a newspaper claiming all tax residents must hand in a tax declaration for 2024.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/10/30/new-citizenship-path-for-foreign-residents-in-thailand-agreed-by-cabinet-interior-ministry-to-frame/

 

No idea if there is any substance to the article, do not shoot the messenger.

 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, andre47 said:

 

Which  comes as a total surprise to nobody.

[jwest10]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Which  comes as a total surprise to nobody.

So we await these so-called new forms and other official announcements and in English and very much doubt it!!!

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, stat said:

Article in a newspaper claiming all tax residents must hand in a tax declaration for 2024.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/10/30/new-citizenship-path-for-foreign-residents-in-thailand-agreed-by-cabinet-interior-ministry-to-frame/

 

No idea if there is any substance to the article, do not shoot the messenger.

Yes this article says that ALL foreign tax residents in Thailand are REQUIRED to file the tax forms for 2024 income exceeding 120K baht.  Who knows what this means until the cabinet does work out the details.

[jwest10]

14 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yes this article says that ALL foreign tax residents in Thailand are REQUIRED to file the tax forms for 2024 income exceeding 120K baht.  Who knows what this means until the cabinet does work out the details.

And you really think they will do this and let alone the forms!! No one knows as per usual and too many experts on here and on web sites.

[Presnock]

28 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

And you really think they will do this and let alone the forms!! No one knows as per usual and too many experts on here and on web sites.

Actually, I get the impression from the way the articl is written that they do intend to do the citizenship bit and taxation bit, the taxation bit has already been written for the most part , they just need to make sure that all the adult expats are filing...probably just a specific sentence within the Dept of revenue instructions on the forms.  This is not the worldwide income taxation, only the remitted foreign funds for 2024.

[jwest10]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Actually, I get the impression from the way the articl is written that they do intend to do the citizenship bit and taxation bit, the taxation bit has already been written for the most part , they just need to make sure that all the adult expats are filing...probably just a specific sentence within the Dept of revenue instructions on the forms.  This is not the worldwide income taxation, only the remitted foreign funds for 2024.

Presnock 

Yes, saw that about Citizenship bit and thought it certainly does not refer to most of us but can still see it after the 560k allowances and most do not get this or 500K 

 

[samtam]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

And you really think they will do this and let alone the forms!! No one knows as per usual and too many experts on here and on web sites.

The Thai Examiner article also seems to refer to those applying for citizenship. But as many have commented, too many assumptions based on no facts or details. As for all residents having to file tax forms, there do not yet appear to be new tax filing forms in circulation, AFAIK.

[topt]

5 hours ago, andre47 said:

 

Article was posted on September 8th and has been referred to before. Reading both articles the author has stated points that may or may not come to pass - bit like many of the opinions in these tax threads........

[anrcaccount]

13 hours ago, stat said:

Article in a newspaper claiming all tax residents must hand in a tax declaration for 2024.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/10/30/new-citizenship-path-for-foreign-residents-in-thailand-agreed-by-cabinet-interior-ministry-to-frame/

 

No idea if there is any substance to the article, do not shoot the messenger.

Not shooting the messenger..

 

This is a junk article "mash up" of 3 separate news stories.

 

Wouldn't take a single thing from it. 

[chiang mai]

15 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Not shooting the messenger..

 

This is a junk article "mash up" of 3 separate news stories.

 

Wouldn't take a single thing from it. 

If you're saying it's nothing, that clinches it for me, it must be fact.

[Talon]

6 hours ago, andre47 said:

 

 

I've been expecting that shoe to drop all along.

 

Yes, I realize nothing has been finalized yet; but it's always good to be aware and have a plan.

[chiang mai]

26 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

I've been expecting that shoe to drop all along.

 

Yes, I realize nothing has been finalized yet; but it's always good to be aware and have a plan.

And your plan is what, generate a TIN using your Mr TIN Maker kit from Hasbros!

[stat]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

Not shooting the messenger..

 

This is a junk article "mash up" of 3 separate news stories.

 

Wouldn't take a single thing from it. 

I agree the article does look quite unprofessional with the heading not really matching some of the content. In my opinion this just shows how unknown the whole tax situation is  and that anything could happen or nothing at all 🙂

Edited yesterday at 08:37 AM by stat

[Talon]

11 minutes ago, stat said:

this just shows how unknown the whole tax situation is  and that anything could happen or nothing at all

 

BINGO.

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, stat said:

... this just shows how unknown the whole tax situation is  and that anything could happen or nothing at all 🙂

 

i wonder where the unknown comes from; perhaps it's from people who don't know much about the tax situation ... 

however, i do agree with you "anything could happen" ... but "nothing at all" i think is more unlikley ...

[chiang mai]

11 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i wonder where the unknown comes from; perhaps it's from people who don't know much about the tax situation ... 

however, i do agree with you "anything could happen" ... but "nothing at all" i think is more unlikley ...

There's a small nucleus of luddites who are hoping it will all come to nought, flat earth types. I hope for their sakes nothing does come of it but I wouldn't wager a single satang at any odds.

[4myr]

If they require all [foreigner] tax residents to file a tax return according to the article:

Quote

These tax requirements will take effect on January 1, 2025. All expats living in Thailand for more than six months in 2024 will be required to file an income tax return.

 

Then they need to change the definition of assessable income and with it the requirement to file a tax return.
The law should not distinguish between foreigner and Thai citizen, only whether you're a tax resident.

 

To my understanding, you are required to file a tax return, only if you have assessable income above certain thresholds.

 

And there are certain remitted income that are not classified as assessable, e.g.:

1) savings before 1 Jan 2024
2) sold investments with a proven loss, so only the principal part of the investment is remitted
3) income that according to DTA is only taxable in the source country

 

 

[oldcpu]

13 minutes ago, 4myr said:

 

And there are certain remitted income that are not classified as assessable, e.g.:

1) savings before 1 Jan 2024
2) sold investments with a proven loss, so only the principal part of the investment is remitted
3) income that according to DTA is only taxable in the source country

 

 

 

Classified as tax exempt income? or classified as not assessable income?

 

Note there is a Thai tax form where one is supposed to list their assessable income that is exempt tax. 

 

The difference in terminology might be important in being a factor in determining if a Thai tax return is appropriate for one with tax exempt assessable income.

[Phulublub]

33 minutes ago, 4myr said:

 

Then they need to change the definition of assessable income and with it the requirement to file a tax return.
The law should not distinguish between foreigner and Thai citizen, only whether you're a tax resident.

 

Who is "they"..I cannot see where the quote comes from.

 

AFAIAA, the TRD does not distinguish between foreigner and Thai citizen - and they are the only agency that counts.  Some random journo, or AseanNow poster's (incorrect) terminology is not relevant

 

PH

[Presnock]

20 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

i wonder where the unknown comes from; perhaps it's from people who don't know much about the tax situation ... 

however, i do agree with you "anything could happen" ... but "nothing at all" i think is more unlikley ...

I agree with you.  WE continue to see articles with "hints' that these issues are being at least discussed and from the writers comments it appears like most things here have different issues with different others so they have a difficult time coming up with agreeable new laws.  I think that they are in such dire economic straits at this time that if this govt remains in power, we will see some progress on the taxation schemes.  Like the  casino bill - they indicate that even if the cabinet passes it, it would take another 6 months to begin such activity.  If they do plan to change the tax situation to a worldwide income taxed then it probably could not take effect until 2026 or so for filing in 2027.  But, the bottom line is TIT!

 

17 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Classified as tax exempt income? or classified as not assessable income?

 

Note there is a Thai tax form where one is supposed to list their assessable income that is exempt tax. 

 

The difference in terminology might be important in being a factor in determining if a Thai tax return is appropriate for one with tax exempt assessable income.

a Thai tax return is required for one with assessable income. IAW the revenue dept, they will not even issue a tax ID number if you do not have any assessable income.  That of course under any new guidance might change to require EVERY tax resident must get a tax ID number and file a tax form even if no assessable income.  But unless the revenue department spells out these new rules, we should only have to abide by those rules they have written on their webpage - in English too.  As of now, unless some new guidance is provided, I will not get a tax ID number nor a tax form as I will never have any ASSESSABLE income (US govt civil service pension taxed only by US govt) and I also have a LTR visa.  I am relaxed right now but am just looking for any changes to the current rules.  I have read them several times as well as the DTA so understand.  Hopefully new tax forms along with wider tax rules will be coming out this month or next month.  Good luck

[Presnock]

FYI I watched a webinar today - they said if one does not have assessable income one is not required to get a Tax ID number, in fact he said the revenue dept won't even issue you a tax ID number if you have no assessable income remitted.  But he also said that under the CSR (I haVE HEARD THAT THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE) the Thai revenue department will be able to get one's ATM and credit card charges but since others say that is not possible, then if one thing is false then other things he said might be false too.  just saying, even if one is from a tax agency it doesn equate to knowing all the facts current or future.  Therefore as always, we just have to wait for clearer guidance from the Revenue Department.

[Presnock]

31 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I agree with you.  WE continue to see articles with "hints' that these issues are being at least discussed and from the writers comments it appears like most things here have different issues with different others so they have a difficult time coming up with agreeable new laws.  I think that they are in such dire economic straits at this time that if this govt remains in power, we will see some progress on the taxation schemes.  Like the  casino bill - they indicate that even if the cabinet passes it, it would take another 6 months to begin such activity.  If they do plan to change the tax situation to a worldwide income taxed then it probably could not take effect until 2026 or so for filing in 2027.  But, the bottom line is TIT!

 

a Thai tax return is required for one with assessable income. IAW the revenue dept, they will not even issue a tax ID number if you do not have any assessable income.  That of course under any new guidance might change to require EVERY tax resident must get a tax ID number and file a tax form even if no assessable income.  But unless the revenue department spells out these new rules, we should only have to abide by those rules they have written on their webpage - in English too.  As of now, unless some new guidance is provided, I will not get a tax ID number nor a tax form as I will never have any ASSESSABLE income (US govt civil service pension taxed only by US govt) and I also have a LTR visa.  I am relaxed right now but am just looking for any changes to the current rules.  I have read them several times as well as the DTA so understand.  Hopefully new tax forms along with wider tax rules will be coming out this month or next month.  Good luck

That would mean that with an LTR one might possibly have to file as remitted foreign income is exempt...but if it is from a DTA such as mine, civil service pension which is taxable only by US govt, that might not be "exempt" by the revenue dept, that is why they need to be more specific on what is or not - maybe the new tas forms will spell it out for us.  Watched a webinar from a tax agency todsy and they specifically said I would not have to get a tax ID number nor file taxes but they might not know any more than the rest of us.

[oldcpu]

With regard to the LTR visa, the translations I have read of the Royal Decree state that foreign assessable income is tax exempt for certain categories of LTR visa holders. 

From what I read the Royal Decree for the LTR visa does not state foreign income is "not assessable". Rather its tax exempt.

Does that difference in terminology matter? I don't know, but I suppose it might.

It also could be quality of unofficial translations of the Royal Decree that I read are inaccurate.

 

So its not yet clear to me if a Thai tax return will be required for assessable but tax exempt income. I hope a tax return is not required. 

I have an LTR-WP and until this is resolved I am not remitting money to Thailand.  I am fortunate that the structure of my finances allows me to do such for a while.

Edited 2 hours ago by oldcpu