Mother in Tears: Daughter Dies in Russia, Family Struggles to Bring Ashes Home

[Patong2021]

5 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

I live here because it is better for me financially. As soon as that stops being the case I will be out of here.....and back to Canada or Serbia or wherever I fancy. I do not pretent Thailand is a great place just because I am stuck here.

 

I did a Canadian PR for my wife last year. The only reason we are back is because she has an awesome job thanks to her non selfish parents who were also poor but did not send her away to prostitute herself and instead worked hard to invest in her education.

 

But i guess that is the difference between Thai and Chinese culture.

 

 

Ok. so basically you are a Canadian of convenience. You are in Thailand only because it is cheap. In effect you admit to  being exploitive.  It certainly explains your pro Russian sentiments.  BTW, you may wish to follow the news from Canada  closely, The government  just announced another 10% cut back and a toughening of PR and visa requirements. Soon there will be  obligatory residence much like the US Green Card rules. 🙂 And if the conservatives  win the next  election,  a review of existing visas  and a freeze on all new visas.  You just might get to stay in Thailand and elevate their culture.

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Don't dig yourself  into a deeper hole. When is the last Thai funeral you attended where the body was not cremated? Thai buddhists  almost never embalm or bury corpses. Ethnic Chinese and Christians can do that. Thai muslims bury within 24 hours. 

There are multiple obstacles to a decent funeral for a Thai in Russia.  The Thai ceremony is supposed to be carried out at a wat or family home. Family and close friends should be in attendance. There should be a monk in attendance. This is to allow for the  daily prayers and the giving of alms  and a presentation of robes. None of that can happen in Russia. There isn't a Theravada wat, there are no Theravada monks and there are no family members. The funeral is also for the living.

This is why the family wants either the body or the cremated remains returned as quickly as possible so that a proper Thai funeral can be given. Thai people put a great deal of emphasis upon respecting their  traditions and the  funeral is a major event, particularly for the parents who must attend to their  child.

Sorry to say, but now it's getting ridiculous. 

I'm not blaming you, that you don't know much about Buddhism. But a bit more knowledge I honestly expected. Nevertheless, 

this deceased young woman will get an appropriate funeral attended by her Thai friends in Russia. But this is not your concern but the girl's family. If they want to have a funeral in Thailand they will do it without your consent or interference.

Please don't send more gibberish.

[OneMoreFarang]

I have to admit I will never understand why for some (many?) people a dead body, or ashes, are important.

She is dead! If you want to think about her, maybe close your eyes and think about the good times when she was alive. Looking at a body or ashes or some earth or an urn doesn't bring her back.

 

[Celsius]

3 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Ok. so basically you are a Canadian of convenience. You are in Thailand only because it is cheap. In effect you admit to  being exploitive.  It certainly explains your pro Russian sentiments.  BTW, you may wish to follow the news from Canada  closely, The government  just announced another 10% cut back and a toughening of PR and visa requirements. Soon there will be  obligatory residence much like the US Green Card rules. 🙂 And if the conservatives  win the next  election,  a review of existing visas  and a freeze on all new visas.  You just might get to stay in Thailand and elevate their culture.

 

I am a canadian citizen so none of this affects me.  I want to see Putin dead, but I have nothing against Russia. Your head must be exploding because you probably do not understand the concept in your left right commie America. Just like that American who says Russia is miserable, but probably never travelled outside Nana.

[connda]

8 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Tragically, she was found dead in her apartment on July 31, 2024, with initial reports suggesting she may have succumbed to exhaustion from long hours of work.

That's the epitome of hyperbole.  Worked to death giving massages.
Get real.  Wait wait wait, I know.  "She was forced by Putin to massage him until she died."  That would play well in the West and probably in Bangkok too.


 

[NativeBob]

19 minutes ago, Celsius said:

non selfish parents who were also poor but did not send her away to prostitute herself and instead worked hard to invest in her education.

that is great to hear (well "to read"). Yes, education is like a gold this days. High value

 

I used to know one wierd fella (through our common friend) who sent (is sending?) "licensed Thai massage therapists" to RU by dozens per week. Each head gives him $1K of profit and demand is still high. He is not really a Russian, rather Jew with dual citizenship. Maybe triple?

 

They go to "parlor" and later being transfered to "boom-boom parlors". Funny is that they all very aware of their future occupation (he said) but it is "different timezone and nobody's watching" so mai pen rai.

I met different types of criminals in BKK, but international pimp is too much, way too much.  

[connda]

9 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

The grieving family is now calling for immediate government intervention to help expedite the return of Pawinee's ashes and provide any available welfare assistance.

I thought she had enough saving to renovate the home and support her parents and kids?  So she has savings but they need the government to take care of the expenses for repatriating the ashes?
That's a cardboard box with a couple of pounds of ash and ground bone.  How do I know?  I had my daughter cremated after she died at 18 years old.  There is very little expense associated with repatriating ashes. 
So - what's really going on?  Terribly tragic, but, Thais suffer tragedies every day.  Road accidents in Thailand claims thousands each year and yet I don't heard that the Thai government must provide welfare assistance to families of road traffic victims.  Yeah, the Thai embassy should contact the Russian government and ask for assistance to get the process of repatriation moving as well as the shipment of the ashes back to Thailand.  But if a Russian had died in Thailand, would it be the Thai government's responsibility to take care of the dead Russian citizen?  Nope!  We hear about this all of the time when foreigners die in Thailand.  So it applies the other way around as well.  If you go work in another country, it's not that country's responsibility to repatriate a body if that foreigner dies while working in that country. 

So why does this family believe that somehow it's different for them?

[connda]

11 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

that is great to hear (well "to read"). Yes, education is like a gold this days. High value

 

I used to know one wierd fella (through our common friend) who sent (is sending?) "licensed Thai massage therapists" to RU by dozens per week. Each head gives him $1K of profit and demand is still high. He is not really a Russian, rather Jew with dual citizenship. Maybe triple?

 

They go to "parlor" and later being transfered to "boom-boom parlors". Funny is that they all very aware of their future occupation (he said) but it is "different timezone and nobody's watching" so mai pen rai.

I met different types of criminals in BKK, but international pimp is too much, way too much.  

Yeah, when I hear "massage therapist in Russia" I pretty much expect that gal is doing the same thing that most gals do who work "massage" in Thailand.  Same same - not different.

[NativeBob]

4 minutes ago, connda said:

So why does this family believe that somehow it's different for them?

be cause they never been colonized. Isn't it obvious? I've heard that almost daily since 1993

[connda]

24 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I have to admit I will never understand why for some (many?) people a dead body, or ashes, are important.

She is dead! If you want to think about her, maybe close your eyes and think about the good times when she was alive. Looking at a body or ashes or some earth or an urn doesn't bring her back.

 

Agreed.  But have you ever had a child die?  I have.  It gives you some closure.  My daughter's urn sat in my bedroom for a few years until I was ready to intern her which I eventually did. I can't express the hole that leaves in your emotions. If you haven't been there, you wouldn't know. Yet I do hear what you're saying, and it is true.  But...

A sense of closure.  That's about all.

[connda]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

What is wrong is how a mother has to go away for 3 or more years while her kids are at home with grandma

How long have you lived her.  That's is exactly how it works here.  Grandparents often raise the children as the parent(s) go off to cities to work.  You're not in the West.  This country doesn't run by Western concepts of morality (thank god).  

[connda]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

I just did an internet search for Buddhism in Russia and the results are quite interesting.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_Russia

 

Depending of course where she was living in Russia she may be able to get a Buddhist cremation, though it is unlikely to be a Thai Buddhist cremation.

Ex-Russian-Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu, is a Buddhist.

[Jerry777]

Another crying idiot setting up a go fund me page.

[billd766]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

Ex-Russian-Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu, is a Buddhist.

Is he a Thai Buddhist, a Buddhist of the Tibetan school (approved by the government in Russia), or a different version.

 

That is like describing someone as a Christian. Is a true Christian, CofE, Catholic, CSFC, Lutheran, Russian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox or any other version of Christian?

[fredwiggy]

29 minutes ago, connda said:

How long have you lived her.  That's is exactly how it works here.  Grandparents often raise the children as the parent(s) go off to cities to work.  You're not in the West.  This country doesn't run by Western concepts of morality (thank god).  

I've been here over 6 years, but knew about this country for years beforehand, and what I heard isn't as bad as what I've seen since I've been here. Children left by fathers and then mothers, has been going on for decades, and it's been wrong all along. Thailand has more children raised by grandparents than any other country by a very wide margin.

 

This is why so many juvenile delinquents run around here with machetes , knives and sticks, 5 against 1, and molest more girls here than any other developed country besides the Middle East., and maybe India. Also why so many children are driving scooters at 8 years old, without helmets.

 

If this country had the morals of western countries, more children would be excelling in school, and then in life, instead of failing in both. Men would be forced, by paying support, to help the children they conceive, instead of left to breed without repercussions. Children would have fathers at least in the sense of support, instead of mothers using that excuse to leave their kids with grandparents, who in a lot of cases are illiterate, too old, or not capable of raising children in a safe environment and teaching them respect for life. Grandparents aren't supposed to be parents to children unless both of the children's parents are gone, or dead. There is no excuses for leaving your children with others besides laziness or indifference.

Edited 10 hours ago by fredwiggy

[steven100]

10 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

 with initial reports suggesting she may have succumbed to exhaustion from long hours of work.

 

 

hogwash .....   sounds suspicious to me if the report says this.  

[NativeBob]

How typical: some post about "licensed Thai massage therapist" died from vodka OD and the thread turns into "Thai bashing" - "this country is not ******"

 

what is so special about the story of rural mother lost her daughter? She is not familiar with international relationship and she seeks help from what she seek is the right thing to do.

[steven100]

1 hour ago, NativeBob said:

How typical: some post about "licensed Thai massage therapist" died from vodka OD and the thread turns into "Thai bashing" - "this country is not ******"

 

what is so special about the story of rural mother lost her daughter? She is not familiar with international relationship and she seeks help from what she seek is the right thing to do.

 

yes,  I totally agree with your comment. 

 

But this bit is suspicious ' 

 with initial reports suggesting she may have succumbed to exhaustion from long hours of work '

 

who dies from exhaustion from massages.   That's hogwash ....

 

but I feel sorry for mama wanting to just get her ashes back here.  

[NativeBob]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

 

hogwash .....   sounds suspicious to me if the report says this.  

 

Likely booze. Thais go junkie there as I've been told why dozens are applying for working visa to RU. It is very affordable and no (except night time and age) limitations. 

 

Exhaustion? Hard working khun thai? Maybe on the planet Uranus, but not here )

[connda]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

Is he a Thai Buddhist, a Buddhist of the Tibetan school (approved by the government in Russia), or a different version.

 

That is like describing someone as a Christian. Is a true Christian, CofE, Catholic, CSFC, Lutheran, Russian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox or any other version of Christian?

He from the Tuva areas of Russia and the primary form of Buddhism is one of the sects of Tibetan Buddhism. 

[connda]

6 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

This is why so many juvenile delinquents run around here with machetes , knives and sticks, 5 against 1, and molest more girls here than any other developed country besides the Middle East., and maybe India. Also why so many children are driving scooters at 8 years old, without helmets.

Bollacks. 

[NoDisplayName]

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The issue is not whether one religion is more tolerant than another. That can be a subjective opinion for some. Rather,  what I wrote was historically accurate.

Fact: Russia had state sanctioned pogroms where jews were intentionally massacred. State sanctioned persecution of Russian jews continued until the Gorbachev era. 

Fact: Russia had state sanctioned persecution of Polish and Lithuanian Catholics.

Fact: Jehova Witnesses are persecuted in Russia.

Fact: Yarovaya laws are now used to persecute protestants, and in particular to prevent their operations, to imprison their clergy and to seize their teaching materials including their bibles.

Fact: Theravada Buddhism as practiced in Thailand is not a recognized religion in Russia. Only  Vajrayana variant is allowed subject to its clergy being state approved.

 

Therefore, my original position remains. 

 

Maybe they could contact the Dhamma Dullabha Vipassana Meditation Center.

 

https://www.dhamma.org/en/schedules/schdullabha

 

This is one of the few centers for Theravada Buddhism in Russia. Located 100 km, east of Moscow, the center conducts ten-day courses in Vipassana Meditation, as taught by the late S. N. Goenka.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, connda said:

He from the Tuva areas of Russia and the primary form of Buddhism is one of the sects of Tibetan Buddhism. 

And she was a Thai Buddhist, which is not quite the same religion.

 

It started from the same roots 2,500 plus years ago, but like the Christian religion it split and divided many centuries ago.

 

For example, Buddhists in Sri Lanka allow women to become nuns and they can go all the way up as monks can and they have their own Sangha.

 

However, in Thailand they cannot as the Thai Sangha will not allow it.

[Patong2021]

8 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Sorry to say, but now it's getting ridiculous. 

I'm not blaming you, that you don't know much about Buddhism. But a bit more knowledge I honestly expected. Nevertheless, 

this deceased young woman will get an appropriate funeral attended by her Thai friends in Russia. But this is not your concern but the girl's family. If they want to have a funeral in Thailand they will do it without your consent or interference.

Please don't send more gibberish.

 

What was gibberish? You dismiss, but do not say what was incorrect.  You make alot of assumptions.You now present yourself as an expert, but do not understand the very significant differences between the different schools of Buddhism. Your position is like insisting that the  Church of Rome is the same as Pentecostal Protestantism since both are Christian faiths.

 

Assuming that she has friends who can give her a funeral. And further assuming that the Russian  state will go out of its way to give her a religion specific funeral. Russia is no different than western nations in that regard. Unclaimed  corpses get treated as a pauper. They might be stored for a short time, or they may be disposed of in a pauper's grave. Sometimes they get cremated. However, someone, somewhere has to make a claim and has to be willing to pay the costs of repatriation. The family is trying to claim the body, but no one is responding and no one in the government appears to be trying to help a distraught mother claim her dead child.  It is a sad tragedy for this family.

 

 

[Patong2021]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

 

yes,  I totally agree with your comment. 

 

But this bit is suspicious ' 

 with initial reports suggesting she may have succumbed to exhaustion from long hours of work '

 

who dies from exhaustion from massages.   That's hogwash ....

 

but I feel sorry for mama wanting to just get her ashes back here.  

 

She may have had  an illness and due to her long work hours succumbed.  I think we can agree that migrant workers are often overworked and exploited. It is conceivable that  she was in a foreign country, not conversant in Russian and most likely left to her own devices to survive in what can be a harsh environment in the best of times.