Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand

[lor]

Easy, Just live in the Philippines for 6 months 1 day of the year and Thailand for the other 6 months and not only will he get the cost of living increase to his pension but he will also not have to pay Thai Income Tax!

[proton]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I'd like to see the original letter. This appears to be a mock-up.

I have already posted it, just for you again

[jori123]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

You hope!

Is,no hoping

[jori123]

2 minutes ago, proton said:

I have already posted it, just for you again

..and I've answered, it was a hoax,  if you go to past threads on the subject the recipient (he did quote earlier) admitted he volunteered information to DWP for them to take action(wanted that letter).  You will see comments like "bingo" and "wow" from him, but you will have trawl through past quotes

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

You need to keep a UK address (could easily be a relatives) and a bank account for that address,  where your pension can be paid into.  However if it is found that you are not living in the UK then you may well be in trouble.

 

The British pension is pretty pathetic compared to other European countries anyway.  Hard to enjoy life if that is all you have to live on, even in Thailand. 

Have you looked at other countries in euro, how many years they have to pay and how much you get...it's a myth UK pension is the worst

[hotandsticky]

Just now, baansgr said:

Have you looked at other countries in euro, how many years they have to pay and how much you get...it's a myth UK pension is the worst

 

 

Your assertion.....can you provide a link to support the claim that it is a myth?

[Gknrd]

Yes, best to play by the rules when you get old, and need more income and support. No need to play Russian roulette with your pension if from the UK, or other countries that do this.  I am an expat nomad kinda of. I spend 6 months a year minimum out. Personally all of these countries like Thailand start to get on my nerves after a few months. Great at first and I love to explore, but then after the new wears off it is not all that. And, I am ready to go home for some peace and quiet.  My country does not cut my pension if living abroad, but I would never in a million years call Thailand a retirement heaven. I learned a long time ago to play by the rules.

[jori123]

6 hours ago, Blueman1 said:

And End up in the " Nick " for Fraud & Deception when they catch you,And They WILL.....

Are you sure? ,now I think not ,not in a million years ,talking State Pension of course

[theblether]

42 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

To think Great Britain once virtually ruled the world with its empire, and now it is reduced to skimming money off the elderly, Whilst its socialist leaders shamelessly trouser hundreds of thousands of pounds in freebies

Where did it all go wrong?

 

Aye, very good. 27% of British pensioners are millionaires. At least the same again are worth £500K plus.  And this forum is full of people moaning they didn't get an extra tenner a week increase this year.  Ya'll had fifty years to invest in property and private pensions and managed to contrive a situation you entered your later years skint. 

 

Just be quiet, 

 

Just give it a rest. 

[proton]

45 minutes ago, jori123 said:

..and I've answered, it was a hoax,  if you go to past threads on the subject the recipient (he did quote earlier) admitted he volunteered information to DWP for them to take action(wanted that letter).  You will see comments like "bingo" and "wow" from him, but you will have trawl through past quotes

 

The letter is not a hoax, it does not matter who told them. They took action against him with a fixed penalty and a bill to re pay the over payments. Many on this thread have said that they cannot do this.

[jori123]

22 minutes ago, proton said:

 

The letter is not a hoax, it does not matter who told them. They took action against him with a fixed penalty and a bill to re pay the over payments. Many on this thread have said that they cannot do this.

Not quite.  You will have to go back a few years ,past threads on the subject.  Jealousy took a big hand in this, two of them put this into being.  Is admitted they informed DWP an overpayment some 5 years before had been made ,and to be honest they wanted to return it, not by posting a cheque but a official letter spelling out the consequence of their admitted claim..    Its all there ,  bizarre to the extreme

 

#DWP could not do this(head of DWP) was involved, but then you could put through any letter through Editor and get the result you want

 

 

Instead of banging on about the subject matter ask DWP (no answer) or next best A1 will answer DWP   Q.  am I committing a crime receiving an unfrozen pension in TH,and if there any punishment?.........none

[bkk_mike]

16 hours ago, Nemises said:

They knew their pensions would freeze if they left the UK.

Next.

It's not for leaving the UK.

There are places you can retire to where your UK pension isn't frozen. - Spain (in fact pretty much anywhere in Europe), the US, Jamaica, the Philippines, etc.

 

The Philippines makes a lot of sense for Brits as an alternative to Thailand. You can pay to join their national universal healthcare scheme (which you can't do in Thailand), and your pension doesn't get frozen.

Maybe you get a few more Typhoons and the food isn't as good, and how useful the universal healthcare is maybe an issue if you've retire to a place that's a long way from a state hospital, but if you're at a point where you are dependent on your state pension going up with inflation, it's probably the better bet than Thailand.

[bkk_mike]

16 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Britain seems to need and scrape all the money it can as the UK is giving billions of dollars to Ukraine, to the American led coalition wars in the Middle East and so on. Like many western nations, England prefers to spend money all over but not for it's own.

The cost of Brexit to the UK is £2 billion a WEEK.

That's why the UK doesn't have any money any more...

[Stargeezr]

Every one has the freedom to go back to their home country. The UKers can do that as well.

When they are back in the UK they can go and make sure their pensions will not be

frozen, or just live with that fact. IMO.

[gk10012001]

16 minutes ago, bkk_mike said:

It's not for leaving the UK.

There are places you can retire to where your UK pension isn't frozen. - Spain (in fact pretty much anywhere in Europe), the US, Jamaica, the Philippines, etc.

 

The Philippines makes a lot of sense for Brits as an alternative to Thailand. You can pay to join their national universal healthcare scheme (which you can't do in Thailand), and your pension doesn't get frozen.

Maybe you get a few more Typhoons and the food isn't as good, and how useful the universal healthcare is maybe an issue if you've retire to a place that's a long way from a state hospital, but if you're at a point where you are dependent on your state pension going up with inflation, it's probably the better bet than Thailand.

Interesting options, especially the Philippines.  Wonder how long one must stay in the PI if one say were to visit Thailand for much of the year while maintaining some sort of residence or whatever the UK would require to be considered in the PI

[bkk_mike]

16 hours ago, Expat68 said:

Final Salary exempt from Thai Tax. Is that everyone who was on Final Salary regardless whether it was government or not?

No - if you look at the Thailand-UK double taxation treaty...

It's government pensions only.

[bkk_mike]

15 hours ago, jori123 said:

Only if you inform,

 

Only if you inform, do not inform?  no nothing, no checking, unlike means tested benefits

There will be occasional proof of life checks, particularly as you get older.

Just to be sure that they're not still paying a pension out to someone who's died.

 

I remember there was a case in Japan where a newspaper called up to talk to a woman who was supposedly the oldest person in the district - just for a puff piece - and ended up finding out that they had died a decade earlier, but not been reported so that the relative who'd been looking after her could still get her pension money.

[bkk_mike]

14 hours ago, baansgr said:

And 51 % wanted out..and now GBP is flying am.pleased we did

The pound is still well below where it was on the day before the vote.

Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year (estimate from Bloomberg - they have no skin in the game on either side - that's just their estimate for the actual costs).

 

Just one example of the way Brexit is pissing away money. The US investment banks had to transfer £2 trillion in financial assets out of the UK to capitalise their new EU-based legal entities. That, all by itself - taking into account nothing else caused by Brexit - is about £500m a week not reaching the Treasury.

And you wonder why there's a black hole in the government finances.

[bkk_mike]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

I researched this a few months ago.  In fact, the Thai government made an official request some years ago to the UK government for a social security agreement to be arranged between the 2 countries, so that UK pensioners would receive annual increases, similar to the Philippines.

 

The UK government didn't even reply to this request.....

UK stopped signing new deals in 1981.

So this one can literally be blamed on Thatcher.

 

This is, of course, except where it was required as part of the EU (i.e. with other members of the EU - which is why your pension isn't frozen if you move to Spain - even though we never signed a reciprocal agreement with Spain under Franco).

 

Maybe the group they should be approaching for a rule change is the Trans-Pacific Partnership. - Let your pension in one country be payable and not be frozen if you've retired to another country in the TPP. You'd get the Australian and New Zealand population on-board because they're affected both by British pensioners living there (often who retired there because their kids had moved there), and by their own countries' systems.

[bkk_mike]

14 hours ago, nong38 said:

I think the law regarding the frozen pensions came into force in 1955 when most people would never have thought of going abroad, going abroad was like the Channel Islands so at that time it seemed pretty harmless but every year since then, in February, the current GVT brings it to Parliament and it voted through to continue and that all political parties continue to not change the situation is disgusting how they have the gall to think it is ok beyond belief but they are the lawmakers and they think its fair.

I got stuck out here in covid times with no flights and they still considered it the thing to do to freeze my pension.

They are a law unto themselves and there is nothing we can do about it, unless Reform get in then maybe Nigel might do something, we can only hope.

The man who told you Brexit was a good idea - now never mentions it - because it's turned to <deleted>.

And you still think he has "the answers"?

[jori123]

17 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Current pension for new claimants around £210/week

Those receiving pensions, which were frozen as soon as they came to Thailand. will get whatever they got during their last month in the UK. How much depends on what year they came to Thailand

Of course you could ask the organiser(here) of the letter from DWP,why he did it? what purpose was it for? were you (with your partner) so jealous that a hoax had to be played out......all these could be answered ,and have been...its on record anybody been prosected

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Posted 4 hours ago

  4 hours ago, proton said:

I have already posted it, just for you again

Expand  

..and I've answered, it was a hoax,  if you go to past threads on the subject the recipient (he did quote earlier) admitted he volunteered information to DWP for them to take action(wanted that letter).  You will see comments like "bingo" and "wow" from him, but you will have trawl through past quotes

Posted 4 hours ago

  4 hours ago, bradiston said:

I'd like to see the original letter. This appears to be a mock-up.

I have already posted it, just for you again         It was hoax,ask him,his details are above

[bkk_mike]

13 hours ago, Tidal wave said:

When they give you any increase of course if it takes you above £12,571 pa 20% of it will immediately be gone on tax so next years rise if you do happen to get full pension it will be approx. £6.92 pw or near to zero because Keir and Rachel have already mugged you of your winter fuel allowance. So next Aprils rise is near worthless anyway .

 

If you were living in Thailand and getting the winter fuel allowance... - I would stay quiet and not complain about it's disappearance.

 

Also not really sure why you're blaming Labour for the decision to freeze the personal allowance as that was taken by the previous government.

Now you could maybe blame Starmer and Reeves for saying they're going to stick to Tory spending limits, but not for things decided by the previous government.

[Chivas]

9 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

DWP can not touch your state pension. Read the website.

 

Yep I said the other day on seperate thread and produced another link from DWP saying the state pension is "not sanctionable"

[bkk_mike]

13 hours ago, arick said:

I remember getting a flight to London 30 some years ago and the old lady from New York was on there and she said she was going back to London to cash and get her pension from the post office and then return back to New York.

 

That makes absolutely no sense - as the US is one of the countries where a UK state pension isn't frozen.

Are you sure she wasn't from Canada and changed planes in New York?

[Chivas]

13 hours ago, Tidal wave said:

When they give you any increase of course if it takes you above £12,571 pa 20% of it will immediately be gone on tax so next years rise if you do happen to get full pension it will be approx. £6.92 pw or near to zero because Keir and Rachel have already mugged you of your winter fuel allowance. So next Aprils rise is near worthless anyway .

 

What are you talking about

All income is taxable including state pension once you go over the Personal allowance in total no matter what the origin of that income

 

If you dont want next Aprils rise am sure many charities will happily accept it even if the Tories (and not Labour) froze the personal allowances level previously whilst in power

 

 

[bkk_mike]

14 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

True, it does depend on circumstance. My issue is.

 

1. 68 is quite a long way off for me, no guarantee I live that long.

2. I am not married to my long term Thai partner so when I die she won't get anything if it's in a UK pension, but she will get my private investments. 

3. By the time I am 68 will the age still be 68 or will they move the goalposts again? 

4. What if I need/want the money before I am 68? 

 

I guess I just have a fundamental distrust of the British government. Look at what Labour were saying 2 years about the fuel allowance and school fees. A total reversal. I just don't trust them with my money.

 

On 2. Whether you're married or not makes no difference. Your state pension dies with you.

If you have a defined benefit pension from your company, or an annuity, then that can sometimes be set up to still pay a full or partial pension to a surviving spouse - so not being married means she could lose out in that circumstance - but not for the state pension.

The bigger issue if you're not being married (depending on the value of your estate) is possibly inheritance taxes. If you've got enough assets (worldwide) to be liable. Possible example would be if you have a house in the UK that you're leaving to your kids, and you go over the inheritance tax threshold, not being married could mean that the executor asks for money from her based on the value of what you've left her. Where if you're married, it's tax exempt.

[bkk_mike]

13 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

It is called discrimination no matter which way you look at it. A long time friend of mine retired a few years ago. He still banks in the UK but because he is living in the Philippines he gets no increase.

The UK is very critical of discrimination but only when it applies to others not themselves. In my opinion he should get the increases as he banks in the UK irrespective if there is an agreement between the relevant countries.

The UK government is good at speaking but total liars when it comes to doing the right thing, unless you are an illegal immigrant of course.

If he lives in the Philippines, he should be getting the full pension including the increases.

If he hasn't been - he should start complaining loudly - that they don't know their own rules.

Maybe they don't believe that he is living in the Philippines because he's using a UK bank account still.

Probably should open a bank account there and get his pension paid into it (should be easy to do if he's living there on a retirement visa of some sort).

[bkk_mike]

12 hours ago, denishuahin said:

efficientI left the UK at 58yo, in 2002 I was with Equitable Life, for a guaranteed payout when 60 yo. As members know they were going bust so we had a choice except a cut on our pension, or they go bust we lose everything. I lost £18,000. The government stepped in to sort it all out after 4 years of claiming, i got compensation of £345 the dragged their feet so we would all die before settled it's still going on and some of us are still alive.
Then at 65 in 2007 I applied for my State Pension for Thailand, all very efficient , no problems at all. At this time, I didn't know about frozen pension. I was living ok, I had money to carry on. Then I started reading about the immigration into UK and how much the Government were giving them £49 per day. I wrote to the pension service about my pension, they directed me to the rules on being abroad and frozen pensions, which really make no sense at all if I had chosen to live in the Philippines, I would get the full pension. I have estimated I have lost out on about an average of 1500baht per month ( little for the first few years ) total would be about £ my pension is £107 pw, the state pension now is £169.50 per week if born before 1951, why?  I have a short fall over the last 4 years of around £20,000. This is how our government treat its people like me, I never claimed benefits, worked all my life paying into the system. But if go into UK on a rubber boat or in a lorry and get £17,885 per annum, never having paid in a penny.  Is something wrong here?
I'm going back in April 2005 to claim my full pension stay 6 months 1 day, and come back to Thailand on a higher frozen pension.

£49 a DAY?

And you believe that?

On what right wing nutcase website did you see something that ridiculous.

[Tiger1980]

What I cannot understand is why the BRITISH government is penalising BRITISH pensioners who retire to certain countries, what they should be doing is encouraging them to do so,thus saving many millions of £’s.

I base this on my own circumstances when I returned to live in the UK. with my wife and two children. Cost of state school per child approximately £6,000 x 2  = £12,000.

child allowance £2,160, my increase in state pension £4,512. thus an extra charge to the exchequer of £18,672 and this is without including medical and dental charges.

OK I am just one individual, but just imagine if tens of thousand of UK pensioners returned to the Uk what would be the overall cost, probably in excess of the 3.65 BILLION pounds we are now spending on the Illegal Economic Migrants each year.

 

[bkk_mike]

11 hours ago, Blueman1 said:

No You DON'T......I've been OUT of the U.K. for 9 Years & Spoke to my U.K. GP Last Year & He told me he'd treat me if I returned !!

 

Yes - but that's not a rule, it's at the discretion of the individual GP.

i.e. You're OK as long as that particular GP is still working. Once he retires...