Lightning strike v Air Con.

[brianthainess]

Yesterday afternoon, there I was just trying to get my 'power nap'...the whole room suddenly flashed blue with an immediate massive BOOM ! of Thunder, beep beep off goes the A/C, light still on, louver still open,  I re-started it again after a few minuets, beep beep off it goes again, I tried it on all settings no cold air, turned it off/on at the mains , re-start same same, I looked at the unit outside it was not working at all. The inside unit will run on 'Fan' only but that's it, the A/C guys can't make till late afternoon today if at all today. So I was just wondering what could be stuffed, at this moment in time I'm thinking the motor's magnet has been shot from the lightning's magnetic force ?? R/C didn't trip, and there was a 'clack' in my ceiling space when it first happened. Any Thoughts ???

Oh and when I opened my laptop after, there was strong storm warning for my area that I have never seen appear before.

Edited October 15 by brianthainess

[Puccini]

Quote

Lightening strike v Air Con

 

Given the choice between a lightening strike and an air conditioner, I take the air conditioner.

[HappyExpat57]

I recently took a trip to Pattaya when lightning hit at or near the hotel I was staying at. Though there were no signs of burning, the power supply to the laptop died, the usb-c to HDMI cable died, and I had to rebuild the laptop. Sh!t happens.

[degrub]

At the very least the ground/earth ( and probably Neutral) potentials were elevated as the earth absorbed the 30-60,000 amps of current nearby. Computer controller boards and their power supplies usually have very limited resistance to an elevated earth voltage. Solid state inverter units are another example.  A surge protector on the power input to the device can help. Lots of possibilities with a close strike. If some of the current passed along over the outer surface of the building, then all bets are off , particularly anything on the balcony. And you do get a magnetic field effect from that amount of current nearby. Structural steel can be magnetized by a hit and cause deflection of a compass when held close by. You can get similar effect from an arc welder, or so i am told 😉.

 

So what did the techs find ?

[brianthainess]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:41 AM, degrub said:

At the very least the ground/earth ( and probably Neutral) potentials were elevated as the earth absorbed the 30-60,000 amps of current nearby. Computer controller boards and their power supplies usually have very limited resistance to an elevated earth voltage. Solid state inverter units are another example.  A surge protector on the power input to the device can help. Lots of possibilities with a close strike. If some of the current passed along over the outer surface of the building, then all bets are off , particularly anything on the balcony. And you do get a magnetic field effect from that amount of current nearby. Structural steel can be magnetized by a hit and cause deflection of a compass when held close by. You can get similar effect from an arc welder, or so i am told 😉.

 

So what did the techs find ?

Well I eventually got someone to come out and check it after the long weekend, (2 were not answering my calls), and they found this. It is expensive IMO at 3.5+K plus he wants 1k labour charge, he has said that includes an earth ?? although the whole unit is earthed to my house system. But it's cheaper than buying a new A/C. I don't see what an 'extra' earth will achieve. I've been without A/C now for eight days and still no word on when it will be repaired, and he took a 2k deposit now sitting in 30.5 degrees with 2 fans directed straight at me, 🥵

[simon43]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:26 AM, brianthainess said:

... So I was just wondering what could be stuffed, at this moment in time I'm thinking the motor's magnet has been shot from the lightning's magnetic force ??...

Lightning is a static electricity discharge and static electricity has no magnetic component 🙂

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

Well I eventually got someone to come out and check it after the long weekend, (2 were not answering my calls), and they found this. It is expensive IMO at 3.5+K plus he wants 1k labour charge, he has said that includes an earth ?? although the whole unit is earthed to my house system. But it's cheaper than buying a new A/C. I don't see what an 'extra' earth will achieve. I've been without A/C now for eight days and still no word on when it will be repaired, and he took a 2k deposit now sitting in 30.5 degrees with 2 fans directed straight at me, 🥵

It could be having a separate earth would keep it from being fried with the next strike.

 

If the lightning likely did not hit the AC, but the house, it could be that the earth tied to the house is what smoked it...

[johng]

It certainly looks smoked !  probably could have found a replacement online (lazada or shopee) that would have arrived faster than 8 days

but there unfortunately may be other components smoked too.

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, johng said:

It certainly looks smoked !  probably could have found a replacement online (lazada or shopee) that would have arrived faster than 8 days

but there unfortunately may be other components smoked too.

But Lazada would not come out and figure out what was wrong. 

 

I would have just taken the board to my FIL and he would have fixed the board with a B20 part. 

[connda]

My bets are the Lightening Strike won! 

Hope ya'll are safe and unharmed.  Sorry to hear about the untimely demise of the Aircon. 

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

Lightning is a static electricity discharge and static electricity has no magnetic component 🙂

 

Lightning is a varying electric current and does exactly what we expect from varying electric currents, it produces EM waves. These waves can be detected many kilometres from the source.

Inverter type air conditioners that are not correctly grounded will be more susceptible to damage from spikes on the supply line. Its quite common for Thai installers to not ground outdoor units which later gets picked up during warranty claims.  

Edited October 23 by Fruit Trader

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

Lightning is a varying electric current and does exactly what we expect from varying electric currents, it produces EM waves. These waves can be detected many kilometres from the source.

Inverter type air conditioners that are not correctly grounded will be more susceptible to damage from spikes on the supply line. Its quite common for Thai installers to not ground outdoor units which later gets picked up during warranty claims.  

Only have units installed by authorized vendors. 

[brianthainess]

12 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

Lightning is a varying electric current and does exactly what we expect from varying electric currents, it produces EM waves. These waves can be detected many kilometres from the source.

Inverter type air conditioners that are not correctly grounded will be more susceptible to damage from spikes on the supply line. Its quite common for Thai installers to not ground outdoor units which later gets picked up during warranty claims.  

When my A/C was installed I had to insist they put the ground wire on it, to my main power board.

[brianthainess]

13 hours ago, johng said:

It certainly looks smoked !  probably could have found a replacement online (lazada or shopee) that would have arrived faster than 8 days

but there unfortunately may be other components smoked too.

No unfortunately I could only find replacement parts for the inside unit, when I thought it may have been the motor that was stuffed.

[connda]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

No unfortunately I could only find replacement parts for the inside unit, when I thought it may have been the motor that was stuffed.

I think I'd just buy a new one from an appliance store and let the shop's installation crew install it.  You'd be cool by now.  Best of luck.  

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, connda said:

I think I'd just buy a new one from an appliance store and let the shop's installation crew install it.  You'd be cool by now.  Best of luck.  

So your suggesting spending 20K for a complete new A/C  as opposed to 4.5 K to repair the old one. You can't buy just the outside unit, just like you can't buy just the flush system 'tank' on it's own for a toilet.

[Crossy]

Do you have surge protection in your Consumer Unit (distribution board)?

 

If not, I suggest you get some installed.

 

If you don't know, post a photo of your board with the cover open and we can check what you have 🙂 

[brianthainess]

Just now, Crossy said:

Do you have surge protection in your Consumer Unit (distribution board)?

 

If not, I suggest you get some installed.

 

If you don't know, post a photo of your board with the cover open and we can check what you have 🙂 

I'm now having memories coming back from last year of turning the amperage selector up to 20mA as I was peed off with the power tripping off every time lighting was anywhere near, DOH !

I will turn it back to 10mA

 

[degrub]

2 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I'm now having memories coming back from last year of turning the amperage selector up to 20mA as I was peed off with the power tripping off every time lighting was anywhere near, DOH !

I will turn it back to 10mA

 

That setting is for detecting a difference in load current to the user device and current returning on neutral. That should keep you from getting electrocuted if you come into contact.  What @Crossy is asking about is a surge arrestor to mitigate line spikes coming into your CU and out to the devices. Basically a set of sacrificial metal oxide varistors that absorb the energy . They have to be replaced periodically to keep the protection.  It is the same sort of surge protection that you see advertised on plug bars and UPS boxes.

 

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/home/surge-protector.htm

 

[brianthainess]

2 minutes ago, degrub said:

That setting is for detecting a difference in load current to the user device and current returning on neutral.

And yet it stopped the power tripping off with storms close by. I remember now it was turned up because of our annual house/garden party when the Karaoke was plugged in the power tripped so it was turned up. 

 

[Crossy]

The RCBO is there for electric shock protection not lightning surge protection. Set it to 30mA, you will be equally safe.

 

I never really understood the logic of these adjustable units, they take up space without adding any real value. A fixed 30mA unit will take up 2 slots rather than the 5 or 6 the adjustable one uses.

 

Anyway, for surge suppression you need something like this; -

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/chint-surge-nu6-ii-f-and-g-low-voltage-surge-arrestor-i1639828951-s9345611300.html?

 

If your system is MEN (as it should be here) then the single position one would be fine, if your system is TT (older place) then you need the 2 position one.

 

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

And yet it stopped the power tripping off with storms close by. I remember now it was turned up because of our annual house/garden party when the Karaoke was plugged in the power tripped so it was turned up. 

 

It tripped, but it didn't protect!

 

Tripping during lightning is purely a by-product of the surges.

 

The mechanism is an order of magnitude too slow to actually protect from the surge which will have been, done the damage and gone before the breaker opens.

[Dutchjohn]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:26 AM, brianthainess said:

Yesterday afternoon, there I was just trying to get my 'power nap'...the whole room suddenly flashed blue with an immediate massive BOOM ! of Thunder, beep beep off goes the A/C, light still on, louver still open,  I re-started it again after a few minuets, beep beep off it goes again, I tried it on all settings no cold air, turned it off/on at the mains , re-start same same, I looked at the unit outside it was not working at all. The inside unit will run on 'Fan' only but that's it, the A/C guys can't make till late afternoon today if at all today. So I was just wondering what could be stuffed, at this moment in time I'm thinking the motor's magnet has been shot from the lightning's magnetic force ?? R/C didn't trip, and there was a 'clack' in my ceiling space when it first happened. Any Thoughts ???

Oh and when I opened my laptop after, there was strong storm warning for my area that I have never seen appear before.

Most likely the start capacitor in the outside unit.

[Dazinoz]

15 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Only have units installed by authorized vendors. 

I rent a house with 2 ACs. The main bedroom one is used a lot. On checking one day I found the unit was not earthed so I ran an earth from the junction box through the indoor unit to the outdoor unit. Nice and safe.

 

A year or so later the AC compressor died so needed a new AC. Owner of house had an AC group to come replace it. The installers were not just a one man affairg but a largish group. After they left I noticed a length of earth wire I had used on the ground. Took connection cover of AC and earth connected. Took cover off ducting that house the piping and wiring. For some reason they had cut the earth wire off in the ducting but left a useless piece of wire connected to the AC.  So much for your "Only have units installed by authorized vendors."

[Fruit Trader]

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

When my A/C was installed I had to insist they put the ground wire on it, to my main power board.

 

Insisting they install a ground wire was a wise move but its likely the surge that wiped out your AC was too large for its protection to capture.

 

 As mentioned by  @Crossy, surge protection at the CU adds another layer capable of handling larger surge currents.

 

Local isolation at each AC is another method to reduce risk. This allows two pole disconnection from the power line when AC is not in use for long periods. 

Edited October 24 by Fruit Trader

[Dazinoz]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:26 AM, brianthainess said:

Yesterday afternoon, there I was just trying to get my 'power nap'...the whole room suddenly flashed blue with an immediate massive BOOM ! of Thunder, beep beep off goes the A/C, light still on, louver still open,  I re-started it again after a few minuets, beep beep off it goes again, I tried it on all settings no cold air, turned it off/on at the mains , re-start same same, I looked at the unit outside it was not working at all. The inside unit will run on 'Fan' only but that's it, the A/C guys can't make till late afternoon today if at all today. So I was just wondering what could be stuffed, at this moment in time I'm thinking the motor's magnet has been shot from the lightning's magnetic force ?? R/C didn't trip, and there was a 'clack' in my ceiling space when it first happened. Any Thoughts ???

Oh and when I opened my laptop after, there was strong storm warning for my area that I have never seen appear before.

Inverter units are very susceptible to electrical spikes. When they first started being sold in Australia they were also found to be very susceptible to geckos and mice running and peeing on the unprotected circuit boards.

[Ctkong]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:27 AM, HappyExpat57 said:

I recently took a trip to Pattaya when lightning hit at or near the hotel I was staying at. Though there were no signs of burning, the power supply to the laptop died, the usb-c to HDMI cable died, and I had to rebuild the laptop. Sh!t happens.

When staying at hotels in Thailand, be mindful that the electrical power supply may not be ‘clean energy’ per se. I prefer to use the power from my powerbank so the power is isolated from the AC power supply and recharged the powerbank when asleep.

[johng]

2 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

very susceptible to geckos and mice running and peeing on the unprotected circuit boards.

In the latest aircon adverts they advertise as a feature "anti geckos"

I wonder (only very slightly) why they don't "pot" their circuit boards

(pot is to encase in a waterproof resin as found on many automotive components)

[Yellowtail]

Just now, johng said:

In the latest aircon adverts they advertise as a feature "anti geckos"

I wonder (only very slightly) why they don't "pot" their circuit boards

(pot is to encase in a waterproof resin as found on many automotive components)

They have to minimize the cost. 

[Dazinoz]

12 minutes ago, johng said:

In the latest aircon adverts they advertise as a feature "anti geckos"

I wonder (only very slightly) why they don't "pot" their circuit boards

(pot is to encase in a waterproof resin as found on many automotive components)

 

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

They have to minimize the cost. 

The later ones I saw in Oz were. This causes a problem with heat dissipation.