Is An Exception Topolicy Possible?

[mouse]

Dear Forum members, I birng these question for a German Gentleman that has some problems meeting the requirements with the new Immigration Rules.

Maybe someone can shed light on the Grandfathering of the rules or another way out for him.

Let us call him Wolfgang, a German Gentleman.

He has been in Thailand for a full 15years and less than 3 months ago his wife and him divorced. He of course lost his home and all possessions but that is mild of what seems yet to come.

His income is less than 500€ per month, thus he cannot meet the financial requirements of a Retirement Visa, although he is of age and qualifies on that count alone.

He has been here 15 years and know no other life. He is incapable of returning to his native Germany for financial reasons and his iability to readjust again and does not know what to do.

As of late he has taken to leaving the country every 30 days and to this date he has not had any problems.

What can be done to "Grandfather" this mans Immigration status/situation to the old income standards? What can be done so that this gentleman can spend the rest of his days in Peace and quiet living a meager (by our standards) but by Thai standards normal existance in this Kingdom?

Can anyone advise?

[Nam Kao]

If i was him I'd find a nice 18 year old girl upcountry, marry her, and get back on a

non -imm o

Very easy to do.

[penelope]

What can be done to "Grandfather" this mans Immigration status/situation to the old income standards? What can be done so that this gentleman can spend the rest of his days in Peace and quiet living a meager (by our standards) but by Thai standards normal existance in this Kingdom?

What can be done ?

How chummy is Wolfy with the Minister of the Interior ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is Wolfy up country or in Bangkok Michael ?

[mouse]

Is Wolfy up country or in Bangkok Michael ?

He is near Pattaya

[dr_Pat_Pong]

He can try Pattaya Immigration, but I suspect that there is little they can or will do. That grandfather thing didn't happen, and he is ineligible to even canvas the issue as there is now no marriage to rely on. Sorry.

[lopburi3]

Agree with Pat that he should ask those in immigration first. If nothing can be arranged continue as doing now.

Grandfathering did not happen.

He would not be eligible even if it had.

A new wife will not help as he can not meet basic requirements for support.

Retirement is way out of the question unless he has money in the bank not mentioned.

So the best he seems to be able to do is continue the 30 day runs or perhaps obtain tourist visas. He should have atm receipts/bank statements with him when he does his runs in case he is asked why. The fact he can show money coming into Thailand for his support should be enough to allow him to continue this method.

[Indo-Siam]

I regret to advise that the individual described is EXACTLY the sort of individual that the Thai government wants to aggressively expunge from Thailand.

Thailand has absolutely no interest in him hanging around. He has no entitlement to hang around living at Thai standards as an illegal immigrant. Not if he is German, any more than if he was Bangladeshi.

Realistically, his choices should be get back into productive mode, and secure (or create) gainful employment, or find a rich Thai lady to settle down with, or prepare for where he will next go, if deported. Menawhile, continue the 30 day shuffle, and keep a low profile.

Thailand is not such a nice place to end uplate in life, without money.

Best of luck to him.

Indo-Siam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Too true I'm afraid.

[lopburi3]

I regret to advise that the individual described is EXACTLY the sort of individual that the Thai government wants to aggressively expunge from Thailand.

Thailand has absolutely no interest in him hanging around. He has no entitlement to hang around living at Thai standards as an illegal immigrant. Not if he is German, any more than if he was Bangladeshi.

Realistically, his choices should be get back into productive mode, and secure (or create) gainful employment, or find a rich Thai lady to settle down with, or prepare for where he will next go, if deported. Menawhile, continue the 30 day shuffle, and keep a low profile.

Thailand is not such a nice place to end uplate in life, without money.

Best of luck to him.

Indo-Siam

I disagree. As long as he is bringing money in the amount mentioned (unless the less than is much less than) believe he will be welcome. And as long as he has an entry permit he is not an illegal immigrant.

[LivinLOS]

I would side with Dr PP and Indo Siam on this one..

His income is a lot less than what the Gov is setting for a baseline as acceptable for a farang to be welcome here. Why would he be welcomed any more than another poor person (you know the measure of quality right now has nothing to do with charachter, integration into society, etc.. Purely fiscal quality ) ??

Also it is not made clear whether his 'income' is from external of Thailand or internal.. If internal he really is up the creek without a paddle.

I also find it a bit surprising that a 15 year resident has never made any effort towards PR or other method of securing his stay long term.

[Thetyim]

Your original question was

"is an exception to policy possible"

The answer is yes. The policies are only guidelines, the visa extension is issued at the interveiwing officiers discretion.

Keep looking until you find a sympathetic immigration officier.

One listed reason for making an exception is the medical need to live in a warmer climate.

[lopburi3]

I would side with Dr PP and Indo Siam on this one..

His income is a lot less than what the Gov is setting for a baseline as acceptable for a farang to be welcome here. Why would he be welcomed any more than another poor person (you know the measure of quality right now has nothing to do with charachter, integration into society, etc.. Purely fiscal quality ) ??

Also it is not made clear whether his 'income' is from external of Thailand or internal.. If internal he really is up the creek without a paddle.

I also find it a bit surprising that a 15 year resident has never made any effort towards PR or other method of securing his stay long term.

You are citing income for extension of stay. He is not using that system if on 30 day entry and for that 20,000 baht, considering his age, would probably be fine. It is all a tourist is expected to have and I suspect a lot of them have less.

The income was stated as euro pension I believe. PR is not likely something he would ever be able to obtain so believe that it is unfair to fault him there.

I believe we are stereotyping him and we may be wrong. The poster used the word gentleman and until proven otherwise I will accept that.

[unbiasbob]

I would think that running to the border every 29 days would get old and expensive after a while. An old guy on a small income? how long would that situation be feasible? It's tough but imm. has hard steadfast rules for persons in different situations. I guess the guy is under mild pressure to find a new wife and do it that way while making his visa runs, should he choose to remain here

[simey]

The income was stated as euro pension I believe. PR is not likely something he would ever be able to obtain so believe that it is unfair to fault him there.

I believe we are stereotyping him and we may be wrong. The poster used the word gentleman and until proven otherwise I will accept that.

I don't think anyone here stereotyped the guy, and unfortunately for him having morals better than St Theresa will still not count for much when it comes to visas.

I beleive that Germany has one of the highest percentage pensions in Europe, surely if he worked and lived there he could return and claim a reasonable pension to live on? I know thats not what he wants, but it's better than being penniless.

[Nam Kao]

>>>>He is near Pattaya

Well that explains the "getting cleaned out" part

[dr_Pat_Pong]

>>>>He is near Pattaya

Well that explains the "getting cleaned out" part

It is a top place in Muang Thai for a good cleanout. One way or the other

[teelac888]

sad to hear about that poor man.

given that one can live reasonably on 500 lbs/mth in thailand this is a sign of things to come: the Thais will keep raising the bar in inverse proportion to their need for foreigners and our cash.

[Dutchy2]

I regret to advise that the individual described is EXACTLY the sort of individual that the Thai government wants to aggressively expunge from Thailand.

This is disgusting, an individual trying to live like a Thai in Thailand.

There's a real risk that he might even teach the normal Thais something. This would look like integration which is stimulated in developed countries. God forbid that Thailand would even think about letting people live like Thais in Thailand, imagine Thailand would move towards development! Outrageous!

poor man....

Dutchy

[samran]

God forbid that Thailand would even think about letting people live like Thais in Thailand, imagine Thailand would move towards development! Outrageous!

Of course, only superior foreign ways will help "develop" Thailand

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Touche Chris

[Dutchy2]

another quality comment from the illustrious pat pong which unfortunately directly reflects his education

Mr. Chris Samran's comment is however interesting, maybe he could indicate how Thailand could develop itself without foreign influences.

pat pong, don't bother answering this question, it's way too difficult for you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Don't start again Holland.

[maerim]

given that one can live reasonably on 500 lbs/mth

Live on 500 lbs of what a month? Gold, rice, bananas?

Now living on £500 as in GBP is a different matter.

[samran]

another quality comment from the illustrious pat pong which unfortunately directly reflects his education

Mr. Chris Samran's comment is however interesting, maybe he could indicate how Thailand could develop itself without foreign influences.

pat pong, don't bother answering this question, it's way too difficult for you.

I see you have your own "dutchy-mal" there Dr P. Good luck.

As for my comment, I never said that Thailand should not imbrace foreign influences. As half Thai-Australian am the poster boy of this very concept.

But the implication (either as a Thai or Australian) as having an outsider tell me in absolute terms as to "what is good for me" in terms of national direction/develoment is highly insulting.

The US has recently become involved in directing Australian foreign policy, which pissed off most Australians.

In the same sense, having someone saying that Thailand will only become a "developed" nation if it does X,Y and Z also riles me and most other Thai's. That is ultimately a matter for the Thai people and the Thai people only to decide on which way their country should go, and it doesn't need patronising comments from outsiders to tell them what the "should" be like.

This last point becomes blurred obviously when it comes out of the mouths of foriegners who have been here a while, and who are committed to Thailand (even though the Thai government may not recognise that as such in the same way other countries embrace mirgrants).

But in my expereince, obnoxious comments usually come from the mouths of people who are only "part time" committed to Thailand, or only committed to Thailand because of being committed to the nightlife, so to speak. It is even more gaulling when it is not said in Thai, even though my uneducated Thai aunt who now lives in Australia is more articulate in English that most educated "expats" in LOS who can't speak anything more than Taxi Thai even though they have been there for years.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

another quality comment from the illustrious pat pong which unfortunately directly reflects his education 

Mr. Chris Samran's comment is however interesting, maybe he could indicate how Thailand could develop itself without foreign influences.

pat pong, don't bother answering this question, it's way too difficult for you. 

I see you have your own "dutchy-mal" there Dr P. Good luck.

As for my comment, I never said that Thailand should not imbrace foreign influences. As half Thai-Australian am the poster boy of this very concept.

But the implication (either as a Thai or Australian) as having an outsider tell me in absolute terms as to "what is good for me" in terms of national direction/develoment is highly insulting.

The US has recently become involved in directing Australian foreign policy, which pissed off most Australians.

In the same sense, having someone saying that Thailand will only become a "developed" nation if it does X,Y and Z also riles me and most other Thai's. That is ultimately a matter for the Thai people and the Thai people only to decide on which way their country should go, and it doesn't need patronising comments from outsiders to tell them what the "should" be like.

This last point becomes blurred obviously when it comes out of the mouths of foriegners who have been here a while, and who are committed to Thailand (even though the Thai government may not recognise that as such in the same way other countries embrace mirgrants).

But in my expereince, obnoxious comments usually come from the mouths of people who are only "part time" committed to Thailand, or only committed to Thailand because of being committed to the nightlife, so to speak. It is even more gaulling when it is not said in Thai, even though my uneducated Thai aunt who now lives in Australia is more articulate in English that most educated "expats" in LOS who can't speak anything more than Taxi Thai even though they have been there for years.

He exhibits the national trait Chris. A pain in the Kyber

[Dutchy2]

another quality comment from the illustrious pat pong which unfortunately directly reflects his education 

Mr. Chris Samran's comment is however interesting, maybe he could indicate how Thailand could develop itself without foreign influences.

pat pong, don't bother answering this question, it's way too difficult for you. 

I see you have your own "dutchy-mal" there Dr P. Good luck.

As for my comment, I never said that Thailand should not imbrace foreign influences. As half Thai-Australian am the poster boy of this very concept.

But the implication (either as a Thai or Australian) as having an outsider tell me in absolute terms as to "what is good for me" in terms of national direction/develoment is highly insulting.

The US has recently become involved in directing Australian foreign policy, which pissed off most Australians.

In the same sense, having someone saying that Thailand will only become a "developed" nation if it does X,Y and Z also riles me and most other Thai's. That is ultimately a matter for the Thai people and the Thai people only to decide on which way their country should go, and it doesn't need patronising comments from outsiders to tell them what the "should" be like.

This last point becomes blurred obviously when it comes out of the mouths of foriegners who have been here a while, and who are committed to Thailand (even though the Thai government may not recognise that as such in the same way other countries embrace mirgrants).

But in my expereince, obnoxious comments usually come from the mouths of people who are only "part time" committed to Thailand, or only committed to Thailand because of being committed to the nightlife, so to speak. It is even more gaulling when it is not said in Thai, even though my uneducated Thai aunt who now lives in Australia is more articulate in English that most educated "expats" in LOS who can't speak anything more than Taxi Thai even though they have been there for years.

Having outsiders tell Thais what to do is not received well, logically. There have been many complains about human traficking, child prostitution, drugs traficking, etc that originate in Thailand. It would be better if the Thais proactively would work on a better country instead of having to listen to justified complaints from third parties. I can understand that the Thais do not like it, but do you really think that Thailand would be a better country without NGO, UN, Worldbank help?

With regards to speaking Thai, I've gone through great efforts to learn and to write Thai, I however do not need it as I work solely with expats. The only Thais that work in my organization work in supporting roles. As a non resident I do not think it can be expected of people that they learn the language of the country, if your uneducated Thai aunt hold residency status in Australia, it's only logical that she would be required to speak English. Most if not all European countries require this from residency holders.

And Mr Chris, I'd rather judge arguments on their validity instead of on the people who express these arguments. You make assumptions that are unfounded, I do not have friends that are here solely for the night life. That people are here for the night life is because the Thais create an environment that invites these kind of people.

I don't need to say anything about that character pat pong, he reacted as predicted and lives fully up to his reputation, chosing a username of the seediest part of Thai life says enough. I frankly do not like people talking about nationalistic traits, that's close to racism and I thought this would't be allowed on this board. I will then naturally not say anything about nationalistic traits with regards to Dr. Pong, because apart from being unintelligent, it would be an insult to Australia, wouldn't it?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

another quality comment from the illustrious pat pong which unfortunately directly reflects his education 

Mr. Chris Samran's comment is however interesting, maybe he could indicate how Thailand could develop itself without foreign influences.

pat pong, don't bother answering this question, it's way too difficult for you. 

I see you have your own "dutchy-mal" there Dr P. Good luck.

As for my comment, I never said that Thailand should not imbrace foreign influences. As half Thai-Australian am the poster boy of this very concept.

But the implication (either as a Thai or Australian) as having an outsider tell me in absolute terms as to "what is good for me" in terms of national direction/develoment is highly insulting.

The US has recently become involved in directing Australian foreign policy, which pissed off most Australians.

In the same sense, having someone saying that Thailand will only become a "developed" nation if it does X,Y and Z also riles me and most other Thai's. That is ultimately a matter for the Thai people and the Thai people only to decide on which way their country should go, and it doesn't need patronising comments from outsiders to tell them what the "should" be like.

This last point becomes blurred obviously when it comes out of the mouths of foriegners who have been here a while, and who are committed to Thailand (even though the Thai government may not recognise that as such in the same way other countries embrace mirgrants).

But in my expereince, obnoxious comments usually come from the mouths of people who are only "part time" committed to Thailand, or only committed to Thailand because of being committed to the nightlife, so to speak. It is even more gaulling when it is not said in Thai, even though my uneducated Thai aunt who now lives in Australia is more articulate in English that most educated "expats" in LOS who can't speak anything more than Taxi Thai even though they have been there for years.

Having outsiders tell Thais what to do is not received well, logically. There have been many complains about human traficking, child prostitution, drugs traficking, etc that originate in Thailand. It would be better if the Thais proactively would work on a better country instead of having to listen to justified complaints from third parties. I can understand that the Thais do not like it, but do you really think that Thailand would be a better country without NGO, UN, Worldbank help?

With regards to speaking Thai, I've gone through great efforts to learn and to write Thai, I however do not need it as I work solely with expats. The only Thais that work in my organization work in supporting roles. As a non resident I do not think it can be expected of people that they learn the language of the country, if your uneducated Thai aunt hold residency status in Australia, it's only logical that she would be required to speak English. Most if not all European countries require this from residency holders.

And Mr Chris, I'd rather judge arguments on their validity instead of on the people who express these arguments. You make assumptions that are unfounded, I do not have friends that are here solely for the night life. That people are here for the night life is because the Thais create an environment that invites these kind of people.

I don't need to say anything about that character pat pong, he reacted as predicted and lives fully up to his reputation, chosing a username of the seediest part of Thai life says enough. I frankly do not like people talking about nationalistic traits, that's close to racism and I thought this would't be allowed on this board. I will then naturally not say anything about nationalistic traits with regards to Dr. Pong, because apart from being unintelligent, it would be an insult to Australia, wouldn't it?

I think we'll have to drop the idea of a having an overly opiniated punter at our beer night Chris.

[Dutchy2]

Hmm I seriously start to think that there's a relationship between spending too much time under water and writing one liners after doing this for many years...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Such wit.