New affordable EVs at the Nov 2024 Bangkok Motor Show

[4myr]

I am in for a new affordable plugin hybrid or EV. I am not satisfied yet with the cars available in the market right now.

Therefore I was following the new announcements and launches in the 4th quarter this year.

 

In Nov-Dec there will be a Bangkok Motor Show again.

 

These are the cars I will be looking forward to:

BYD Atto 3 competitors

1) Geely Galaxy EX5.
On paper in many aspects a better car, and most importantly a safer battery that charges faster and has a higher energy density.
Unfortunately Geely will have their EVs produced in Malaysia [Proton] and the Thai distributor [Thonburi Panich Group] does not have so many dealers across the country.

 

2) GAC Aion V

A longer car than the Aion Y Plus. Curious how the quality level is.
Unfortunately GAC is a small manufacturer compared to Geely or BYD.

 

3) Changan Deepal S05

A smaller brother of the S07. Has not been announced yet that this car will at the show.
Is lik the EX5 a big hit in China at the moment.

 

4) Xpeng Mona M03

It would be a pleasant surprise if Xpeng will show this budget car at the show.
High efficiency, big boot space for a liftback. And excellent software [no 3 after Tesla and Nio].
Don't expect it to be launched in Thailand soon, as Xpeng cannot produce enough for the Chinese market.

 

Bigger SUVs

 

1) BYD Sealion 7.
The EV equivalent of the Sealion 6 PHEV. Will the price be between Sealion 6 and Seal?

 

2) Geely Galaxy L7

The PHEV competitor of the Sealion 6. Unfortunately not confirmed that it will be at the show.

 

3) Neta L [BEV or extended range]
This is a longer version of the Neta X with luxury items like a fridge and massage for the front passenger.

Unfortunately Hozon Auto, the manufacturer sells less cars in China and they are in urgent need of cash injections.

 

4) Leapmotor C10 [Stellantis]

Will be launched in Thailand. Has high ratings in China. Not on my top list.

 

Pickups

 

1) Geely Riddara RD6 [BEV]

Already announced last month. Lower priced compared to BYD Shark in Malaysia.

 

2) BYD Shark PHEV

Will it be announced in Thailand? Much larger and more luxurious pickup than Geely's.

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

36 minutes ago, 4myr said:

BYD Atto 3 competitors

1) Geely Galaxy EX5.
On paper in many aspects a better car, and most importantly a safer battery that charges faster

 

I'm curious, why do you think it's a safer battery?

[4myr]

Quote

The Aegis Short Blade battery developed by Geely has undergone rigorous safety testing, which has demonstrated that it is a safer battery compared to the first generation of the Blade battery.

 

Here are the key points regarding the safety tests and comparisons:

 

Safety Test Results for Aegis Battery

Rigorous Testing: The Aegis battery successfully passed a series of six extreme safety tests, which included:

• Seawater corrosion immersion
• Extreme cold environments
• High-frequency scraping
• 26-ton overweight rolling
• Single-pack side collision
• Fire roasting
• Advanced Puncture Tests: The Aegis battery was subjected to a puncture test involving eight simultaneous 5-mm diameter steel needles, which is significantly more demanding than the standard single-needle puncture test used for automotive battery safety. The Aegis battery showed no adverse effects after this test.
• Bullet Penetration Test: It also passed a test where it was shot with a 5.8 mm infantry rifle bullet without igniting, showcasing its robustness under extreme conditions.
• Thermal Runaway Prevention: The Aegis battery incorporates self-fusing technology that helps prevent short circuits and thermal runaway in case of punctures or extreme shocks.

Comparison with Blade Battery Gen 1
While specific safety test results for the first generation of the Blade battery were not detailed in the search results, the advancements and rigorous testing protocols applied to the Aegis battery suggest it is designed to exceed the safety standards of earlier models.
The Aegis battery's design improvements, such as a high-strength diaphragm and advanced thermal management features, contribute to its enhanced safety profile compared to previous generations.

 

Conclusion
Overall, the safety tests indicate that Geely's Aegis Short Blade battery is indeed positioned as a safer alternative compared to the first-generation Blade battery, with superior performance in extreme conditions and advanced safety features designed to prevent potential hazards.

 

The Geely Aegis battery is also called he Golden battery.

 

Sources:
https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/28/geelys-aegis-short-blade-lfp-battery-full-details-including-extreme-safety/

 

 

Most of my online research is with ChatGPT and perplexity.ai.
And then looking at the sources that these AI tools are providing.

 

Note that BYD is very good in marketing but unfortunately could not find the safety tests that BYD has done with Gen 1 blade battery, except for the famous needle penetration test.

Gen 2 blade battery has also been announced, but here again no detailed safety reports found yet.

 

Other issues that the Gen 1 blade battery has:

 

1) suboptimal cooling, meaning that during charging the capacity can be limited if certain high temps reached. Gen 2 seems to have improved it.

2) plastic cover which can be chewed by rodents nesting on top of the Atto 3 or Dolphin battery.
The cover cannot be ordered as a separate item. Therefore aftermarket solutions like a rat guard to prevent them to build a nest.

 

[JBChiangRai]

Very interesting, I compliment you on your research.

[Srikcir]

MG4 EV?

https://www.carwow.co.uk/mg/mg-4#gref

[KhunLA]

16 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

MG4 EV?

https://www.carwow.co.uk/mg/mg-4#gref

[JBChiangRai]

My daughter has the MG4 X standard range, I drove it for a few months too and I just took it to Makro with her today, it's a fantastic car and great fun to drive.

[4myr]

MG4 is already on the market at the moment.

 

But I expect the new MG ES5 at the show. I see that the tech and interior has been updated.

 

Personally I am not a fan of MG. They still sell old models of the MG plugins. Already surpassed by BYD.

What I do like is that their batteries are modular, so in theory cheaper to repair, if this service is available in Thailand, contrary to BYD batteries. Also scheduled maintenance cost is in line with cheaper EV maintenance, half the price of BYD's.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, 4myr said:

MG4 is already on the market at the moment.

 

But I expect the new MG ES5 at the show. I see that the tech and interior has been updated.

 

Personally I am not a fan of MG. They still sell old models of the MG plugins. Already surpassed by BYD.

What I do like is that their batteries are modular, so in theory cheaper to repair, if this service is available in Thailand, contrary to BYD batteries. Also scheduled maintenance cost is in line with cheaper EV maintenance, half the price of BYD's.

 

Only the ZS and ES/EP models have modular batteries. unlike the MG4 the warranty is 8 years, the MG4 has a lifetime warranty on the battery and it's one large pack.

 

The taxi we use for airport runs is an MG EP+, he picked us up last week for our Phuket trip and it was off the road.  He got flooded in the recent Chiang Rai floods and one module has to be replaced, including labour 100k THB.

[4myr]

31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The taxi we use for airport runs is an MG EP+, he picked us up last week for our Phuket trip and it was off the road.  He got flooded in the recent Chiang Rai floods and one module has to be replaced, including labour 100k THB.

Still a lot of money. But much cheaper than a new Atto 3 standard range battery which cost around 320k without installation. The price went down from 525k this year.

[JBChiangRai]

IMHO, the most important fact in selecting a new EV is the battery chemistry, it really needs to be LFP.

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

IMHO, the most important fact in selecting a new EV is the battery chemistry, it really needs to be LFP.

Here's the major 'why', for those not familiar, aside from a bit safer.  And 2500 cycles is conservative, as many suggest 10k cycles is very possible. 

Edited 6 hours ago by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

@4myr What kind of budget would you have for your new car?

[4myr]

24 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

@4myr What kind of budget would you have for your new car?

Between 1 - 1.1M for plugin or extended range BEV for at least 400 km WLTP.

Prefer plugin for the convenience on long road trips.

 

Agree with LFP chemistry.

Fortunately you can choose different qualities at the moment, which varies in charge/discharge rate nC, number of charge cycles, energy density, battery cooling method and specific measures to prevent thermal runaway.

 

Here is my list:

1) Geely Aegis. In the EX5. And some Zeekr models. Has 3,500 cycles, 192 Wh/kg, 2.45C on average
2) CATL Shenxing and Shenxing Plus. Some Neta models have them

3) BYD Gen 2 blade.
I read on the Australian BYD website that the Sealion 6 has the "new" blade battery. I don't know if it means Gen 2. I'm afraid all Thai cars right now have Gen 1.

4) BYD Gen 1. I prefer to avoid this for now.

 

Advantage of a BYD car is that they have a lot of wiggle room to lower battery prices, and still earn a profit, as they are the second biggest producer. 

 

[richard_smith237]

Does anyone else find the advertised ranges utter rubbish compared to real world experience ?

 

Example at hand...  

...   Quoted (max) range 620kms... while I guess is a perfect world - not stop, flat road.

...   Real world range (as per display) - I've never seen more than 480kms

 

that probably has a lot to do with the AC being on etc... but still, thats a huge difference between marketing and reality.

 

OR... are the quoted ranges measured on a 'rolling road' with no wind resistance etc ?

 

 

[motdaeng]

34 minutes ago, 4myr said:

Prefer plugin for the convenience on long road trips.

 

many new buyers choose a plug-in hybrid car, cause it's easier for long road trips. however, when asked how many long trips (over 400 km) they actually take, it turns out this only happens a few times a year.

 

in my opinion, for those occasional long trips, you can easily charge during breaks without losing much extra time. after all, long road trips aren’t (at least for me) meant to be races!

 

i think, buying a phev instead of a pure bev just for a few long trips doesn’t really make sense. keep in mind, with a phev, you get both the benefits and the drawbacks of both the ice and electric car worlds ...

Edited 4 hours ago by motdaeng
text

[motdaeng]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Does anyone else find the advertised ranges utter rubbish compared to real world experience ?

 

Example at hand...  

...   Quoted (max) range 620kms... while I guess is a perfect world - not stop, flat road.

...   Real world range (as per display) - I've never seen more than 480kms

 

that probably has a lot to do with the AC being on etc... but still, thats a huge difference between marketing and reality.

 

OR... are the quoted ranges measured on a 'rolling road' with no wind resistance etc ?

 

 

 

i agree with that! the advertised ranges are hard to achieve. only with disciplined driving, not too fast, no hills, the right temperature, no rain, etc.

 

but on the other hand, it's quite similar to the fuel consumption estimates for ice cars ... they're also hard to reach with normal driving ... 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by motdaeng
spelling

[4myr]

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Does anyone else find the advertised ranges utter rubbish compared to real world experience ?

 

Example at hand...  

...   Quoted (max) range 620kms... while I guess is a perfect world - not stop, flat road.

...   Real world range (as per display) - I've never seen more than 480kms

 

that probably has a lot to do with the AC being on etc... but still, thats a huge difference between marketing and reality.

 

OR... are the quoted ranges measured on a 'rolling road' with no wind resistance etc ?

 

 

Well you have the different measuring standards NEDC, CLTC, WLTP and EPA.

 

The best mileage you get with city trips, and worst with a full loaded car and only motorway speeds with headwind. Efficiency on the motorway is what matters, so a sedan shaped cars like Tesla / Xpeng will have better efficiency than a boxy SUV like KIA EVx. And on top of that your AC and battery cooling during driving, as the higher speed you drive, the more battery cooling is also needed. Fortunately most modern EVs have an efficient heatpump.

 

I'm more concerned with extra battery/range degradation in a hot climate like Thailand.

 

Note that new batteries are kept in a conditioned room of 25C. Even parking a car under a roof ambient temperature right now during the day can reach 36-40C. Will you want to keep your battery at 80-100% SOC on those hot days, or will you plan it and charge up before you have your trip?

Edited 4 hours ago by 4myr

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, 4myr said:

Well you have the different measuring standards NEDC, CLTC, WLTP and EPA.

 

The best mileage you get with city trips, and worst with a full loaded car and only motorway speeds with headwind. Efficiency on the motorway is what matters, so a sedan shaped cars like Tesla / Xpeng will have better efficiency than a boxy SUV like KIA EVx. And on top of that your AC and battery cooling during driving, as the higher speed you drive, the more battery cooling is also needed. Fortunately most modern EVs have an efficient heatpump.

 

I'm more concerned with extra battery/range degradation in a hot climate like Thailand.

 

Note that new batteries are kept in a conditioned room of 25C. Even parking a car under a roof ambient temperature right now during the day can reach 36-40C. Will you want to keep your battery at 80-100% SOC on those hot days, or will you plan it and charge up before you have your trip?

 

To be honest...  If the marketing said...  620kms... but real world range of 450kms with AC on at motorway speeds etc... I'd find that more 'honest'...   but I also get the point made about ICE consumption also being somewhat of a marketing fiddle. 

 

 

I also wholly agree that for the 'average driver' a range if 450kms is hardly needed...   then there is the psychological aspect of allowing the battery to drop below say 30%, while in an ICE we have no issues driving on fumes !!! - its a different mental space until we get used to it.

 

On a recent road trip we stopped off for an ice-cream and had a 15 min charge (which added about 30%  think)...  then on another day we stopped off for lunch and topped up from about 50% to 99% in about 30mins (with an 88 kWh batter) 

 

I've just looked and the WLTP (Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure) range is 500 kms... (so thats closer to to reality than the manufacture marketing).

 

 

IMO - anothing more than 100 kms for our daily use is a non-issue anyway... but that doesn't get us very far on road trips so is nice to know we have a real world range of about 450 kms (from my own experience).

 

 

Lots of good info from KhunLA on EV's helped my decision to get one - although his overwhelming hardon for MG is sometimes amusing.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by richard_smith237

[Cardano]

Just looked at the new Peugeot 408 GT 1.6L Hybrid, stunning car both inside and out, built under license in Malaysia and starts at a very reasonable B1.5m

[johng]

23 minutes ago, Cardano said:

starts at a very reasonable B1.5m

not reasonable at all    

300,000 for a new "plug in the wall" small CC motor is

kind of reasonable but still not for me   < 100,000 would be "reasonable"

I'll wait till all the ICE options are gone before even considering  B1.5m !

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, 4myr said:

Between 1 - 1.1M for plugin or extended range BEV for at least 400 km WLTP.

Prefer plugin for the convenience on long road trips.

 

Agree with LFP chemistry.

Fortunately you can choose different qualities at the moment, which varies in charge/discharge rate nC, number of charge cycles, energy density, battery cooling method and specific measures to prevent thermal runaway.

 

Here is my list:

1) Geely Aegis. In the EX5. And some Zeekr models. Has 3,500 cycles, 192 Wh/kg, 2.45C on average
2) CATL Shenxing and Shenxing Plus. Some Neta models have them

3) BYD Gen 2 blade.
I read on the Australian BYD website that the Sealion 6 has the "new" blade battery. I don't know if it means Gen 2. I'm afraid all Thai cars right now have Gen 1.

4) BYD Gen 1. I prefer to avoid this for now.

 

Advantage of a BYD car is that they have a lot of wiggle room to lower battery prices, and still earn a profit, as they are the second biggest producer. 

 

This was posted October 30th regarding blade 2 battery

On October 30, a Chinese blogger claimed that the Yangwang U7 sedan would feature the second-generation BYD blade battery. Since earlier this year, it has been known that a second-generation blade battery is imminent, but details about the forthcoming battery have been slim.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/10/30/yangwang-u7-will-debut-with-blade-2-battery-claims-blogger/

I would expect Blade 2 battery to be released in China 1st before any other country

[Andrew Dwyer]

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

To be honest...  If the marketing said...  620kms... but real world range of 450kms with AC on at motorway speeds etc... I'd find that more 'honest'...   but I also get the point made about ICE consumption also being somewhat of a marketing fiddle. 

 

 

I also wholly agree that for the 'average driver' a range if 450kms is hardly needed...   then there is the psychological aspect of allowing the battery to drop below say 30%, while in an ICE we have no issues driving on fumes !!! - its a different mental space until we get used to it.

 

On a recent road trip we stopped off for an ice-cream and had a 15 min charge (which added about 30%  think)...  then on another day we stopped off for lunch and topped up from about 50% to 99% in about 30mins (with an 88 kWh batter) 

 

I've just looked and the WLTP (Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure) range is 500 kms... (so thats closer to to reality than the manufacture marketing).

 

 

IMO - anothing more than 100 kms for our daily use is a non-issue anyway... but that doesn't get us very far on road trips so is nice to know we have a real world range of about 450 kms (from my own experience).

 

 

Lots of good info from KhunLA on EV's helped my decision to get one - although his overwhelming hardon for MG is sometimes amusing.

 

 

The different range standards do cause confusion, here the preferred ( by the dealer ) is NEDC whereas WLTP is closer to the truth.

In fact the Atto 3 was released with a NEDC range of 480 km, many buyers complained and the dealer offered to change the range to 420 km based on WLTP standard.

 

My Seal has a 650 km NEDC range which could possibly be achieved with ideal conditions, a flat road, minimal acceleration and a constant speed of 75 kph, something I am not prepared/able to test.

 

In reality I get around 550 km which i am more than happy with.

It gives me the ability to drive a 450 km round trip and have sufficient left ( around 15 to 20% )

Using the cars cumulative AEC, over nearly 17k, gives me 567 km which is close to reality.

 

But the confusing thing is recently via an OTA I now have Dynamic range finder, opposed to the Standard range finder which always gives 650 km, and upon charging it is supposed to give the range based on my driving style. It will give me varying 100% range ( 634 to 667 km ) which is not really any better than NEDC ?.