Destination Thailand Visa (DTV) Success Faces an Uncertain Future

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, kuzmabruk said:

Your statement makes no sense.  Residents (1-year visa holders) could be asked to provide their Thai tax return on visa renewal.  Easy as pie.  Same for 180-day renewals of DTV holders.   If the days in Thailand during Jan1-Dec31 is less than 180 days, then you are exempt.  Additionally, a lot of us are already taxed at higher rates in our home country - if we still claim tax residency or are American.  Otherwise the tax rate here is a pretty fair 35%.  Compared with 52% that I paid in Canada.  

The 35% income tax level applies for income over 5 million baht within a tax year. Income tax begins at 5% and jump in 5% steps; so, much less than in many Western countries, except tax-havens.

[shdmn]

9 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said:

Are these guys gonna report their worldwide income in Thailand and then pay Thailand taxes on it if they stay longer than 6months in a calendar year?

DTV has nothing to do with taxes, other than allowing people to easily stay over the 6 month threshold at which point the tax rules apply.  They are totally separate gov't departments as far as I can tell.

[shdmn]

16 minutes ago, khunPer said:

The 35% income tax level applies for income over 5 million baht within a tax year. Income tax begins at 5% and jump in 5% steps; so, much less than in many Western countries, except tax-havens.

Otherwise known as the marginal tax rate.  A relatively simple but often misunderstood tax concept.  

[shdmn]

6 hours ago, kuzmabruk said:

Your statement makes no sense.  Residents (1-year visa holders) could be asked to provide their Thai tax return on visa renewal.  Easy as pie.  Same for 180-day renewals of DTV holders.   If the days in Thailand during Jan1-Dec31 is less than 180 days, then you are exempt.  Additionally, a lot of us are already taxed at higher rates in our home country - if we still claim tax residency or are American.  Otherwise the tax rate here is a pretty fair 35%.  Compared with 52% that I paid in Canada.  

Not that straight forward considering that immigration and taxes are two totally separate gov't agencies with very different mandates.  Even governments in the 1st world have a hard time collaborating and sharing data across agencies.

[shdmn]

3 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

...

 

But the moment world wide taxation comes in they won't get a penny from me as most of my income would be taxed at 35%. It's just about worth it with the current system but these new arrivals will very easily leave, and leave more of a glut of empty properties. 

5 million is when your marginal tax rate becomes 35%, so you would need to be making  more than twice that for "most" of your income to be taxed at 35%.

[Rolo89]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Income tax begins at 5% and jump in 5% steps; so, much less than in many Western countries, except tax-havens.

Thailand charge all dividend as normal income, so for people that get paid via their own company it's in many cases it's higher in Thailand and you get so much less back.

1 hour ago, shdmn said:

5 million is when your marginal tax rate becomes 35%, so you would need to be making  more than twice that for "most" of your income to be taxed at 35%.

Yes, that's how it works.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

9 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said:

35% is “fair”?

what do you get for your 35% donation to Thailands coffers?

90 day parolee reporting

annual request to stay and spend more money here

no legal rights (well, SFA)

dual pricing

no free government services - those given charged extra (Court ruled it is OK for Farangs to be charged more).

very very little chance of citizenship or perm residency or ability to vote

absolutely no say in what goes on here

 

Basically we are treated like a tourist on parole for staying longer than 90 days

And they want us to pay income taxes?

Absolutely not - without some representation and/or rights.

If you own/run a business and/or work in Thailand - then yes to paying income taxes.

If you are retired and earn no income here (and never did) then - no way, Jose.

 

 

[DonniePeverley]

Needs stricter controls.

 

Too many Indians abusing this. You can't literally allow people to live here without any form of income check - the current system is open to abuse with the income statements needed. 

[Rolo89]

I think Thailand massively overestimates it's own importance.

 

As we're treated like visitors many have backup plans and won't hesitate to leave or spend less than 180 days a year if things change much. 

[cjinchiangrai]

The biggest issue is the people that claim Thai tax residency at home and home residency in Thailand and don't pay taxes to anyone. I can't do that but plenty of people do it. It could get expensive if you are a tax cheat. 

 

All of this tax stuff is off topic though. The DTV needs rethinking so it is not competing with the O visa or the Elite. It will also be used as an excuse for working without a B and work permit.

[Antti]

53 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The biggest issue is the people that claim Thai tax residency at home and home residency in Thailand and don't pay taxes to anyone. I can't do that but plenty of people do it.

What is the issue with that? Are you jealous?

[cjinchiangrai]

8 minutes ago, Antti said:

What is the issue with that? Are you jealous?

No, it is called tax fraud. 

[Antti]

1 minute ago, cjinchiangrai said:

No, it is called tax fraud. 

Lol, no it’s not. Why would it be? I guess you are American and don’t understand how normal countries do things.

[cjinchiangrai]

11 minutes ago, Antti said:

Lol, no it’s not. Why would it be? I guess you are American and don’t understand how normal countries do things.

FAFO, It is a new day in Thailand.

[DonniePeverley]

My estate agent says the visa is a trap to bring you into the tax bracket 

[Rolo89]

13 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The biggest issue is the people that claim Thai tax residency at home and home residency in Thailand and don't pay taxes to anyone. I can't do that but plenty of people do it. It could get expensive if you are a tax cheat. 

Isn't it the opposite and they don't have tax residency anywhere?

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

These Milennial YouTubers are like totally out of touch with reality. NOBODY lounges on the beach with a $3000 MacBook.

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

16 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Basically we are treated like a tourist on parole for staying longer than 90 days

And they want us to pay income taxes?

Absolutely not - without some representation and/or rights.

If you own/run a business and/or work in Thailand - then yes to paying income taxes.

If you are retired and earn no income here (and never did) then - no way, Jose.

What's keeping you here then?  Cambodia would love your money.  Easy peazy lemon squeezy: Leave.

[bbi1]

13 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The biggest issue is the people that claim Thai tax residency at home and home residency in Thailand and don't pay taxes to anyone. I can't do that but plenty of people do it. It could get expensive if you are a tax cheat. 

 

All of this tax stuff is off topic though. The DTV needs rethinking so it is not competing with the O visa.

Easy, they should make an age limit and NOBODY 50 OR OVER should be able to apply for a DTV, only a Retirement visa only. No competing between these visas then if they implemented this simple thing.

[MartinBangkok]

20 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

Well most couldn't live in Thailand permanently even if they wanted.

 

I think it's more who would want to contribute to a country where you'll only ever be a visitor and at the constant mercy of changes.

and constant blatant discrimination

[Rolo89]

14 minutes ago, Woke to Sounds of Horking said:

What's keeping you here then?  Cambodia would love your money.  Easy peazy lemon squeezy: Leave.

Cambodia taxes WW income. 

[cjinchiangrai]

2 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

Isn't it the opposite and they don't have tax residency anywhere?

Nope, half a year in any location. You could do it by moving every four months but that could create other issues.

[Rolo89]

1 minute ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Nope, half a year in any location. You could do it by moving every four months but that could create other issues.

Are you talking about being a tax resident of nowhere?

[cjinchiangrai]

1 minute ago, Rolo89 said:

Are you talking about being a tax resident of nowhere?

Yes. If you did not stay in any one country for more than 6 months, you could do it, as long as you can get visas. That is a real nomad.

[Rolo89]

13 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Yes. If you did not stay in any one country for more than 6 months, you could do it, as long as you can get visas. That is a real nomad.

Yes. So that's not a tax resident of two places but a tax resident of nowhere.

 

Easily done if you're from the UK. No so easy if you're Australian or American etc.

 

Might cause some banking issues down the line, but if you don't stay anywhere long enough to become a tax resident then you don't pay tax on income.

[cjinchiangrai]

3 minutes ago, Rolo89 said:

Yes. So that's not a tax resident of two places but a tax resident of nowhere.

 

Easily done if you're from the UK. No so easy if you're Australian or American etc.

 

Might cause some banking issues down the line, but if you don't stay anywhere long enough to become a tax resident then you don't pay tax on income.

The UK should be changing soon. No place is moving away from the global income position. They get the money by not offering COLAs to expats though.

[Rolo89]

24 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The UK should be changing soon. No place is moving away from the global income position. They get the money by not offering COLAs to expats though.

It's not a worldwide income thing. The UK doesn't claim your tax residency by default if you're a citizen and if you leave and pass the automatic non resident tests then you aren't taxed in the UK. As is the case in several countries. 

 

That won't be changing anytime soon as the newly elected government has just had its budget and has not changed this.

[cjinchiangrai]

1 hour ago, Rolo89 said:

It's not a worldwide income thing. The UK doesn't claim your tax residency by default if you're a citizen and if you leave and pass the automatic non resident tests then you aren't taxed in the UK. As is the case in several countries. 

 

That won't be changing anytime soon as the newly elected government has just had its budget and has not changed this.

As the international crackdown on money laundering continues they will get around to it, but for now, Thailand will be collecting the money.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, cjinchiangrai said:

As the international crackdown on money laundering continues they will get around to it, but for now, Thailand will be collecting the money.

In the real world, the only ones who can be seen effectively collecting the money in Thailand are the loan sharks.

[khunPer]

23 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

Thailand charge all dividend as normal income, so for people that get paid via their own company it's in many cases it's higher in Thailand and you get so much less back.

Yes, that's how it works.

However, depending of you country and Double Taxation Agreement for foreign dividends; for my home country's DTA with Thailand dividend tax cannot be more than 10%.

 

For Thai SET dividends are 10% withheld as tax, you can chose the dividend to become income tax, or settled as the 10% already withheld tax...