Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

And when the bank closes your account...what will you do then?

Easy, my wife can open an account for me to use.

Or I'll just start using one of her many existing accounts.

[anchadian]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

 

I can see Thai jails full soon with all these tax advice giving farang...

Don't make a fool of yourself RW

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

But TRD wants some kind of proof, ergo, show your calculations, show your working, I think you'll find that's what they are after.

So, they're going to check every return for math errors and correct assumptions? What ever happened to the advertised self-assessment principal? By the way, taxable income is literally income upon which some tax is owed. Thus, you would necessarily have to factor in the freebie tax band to arrive at taxable income -- that 150k tax band functions as just another deduction.

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, they're going to check every return for math errors and correct assumptions? What ever happened to the advertised self-assessment principal? By the way, taxable income is literally income upon which some tax is owed. Thus, you would necessarily have to factor in the freebie tax band to arrive at taxable income -- that 150k tax band functions as just another deduction.

We have different opinions about what constitutes taxable income. Income taxed at zero is still taxed, technically speaking.

[CapraIbex]

19 minutes ago, JimGant said:

By the way, taxable income is literally income upon which some tax is owed.

That's an interesting perspective. So, if I receive income in my home country that is considered tax-free by its government and then remit these funds to Thailand, does that mean I wouldn’t be liable for taxes on this income in Thailand?

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, CapraIbex said:

That's an interesting perspective. So, if I receive income in my home country that is considered tax-free by its government and then remit these funds to Thailand, does that mean I wouldn’t be liable for taxes on this income in Thailand?

Potentially yes, if they are assessable here.

[CapraIbex]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Potentially yes, if they are assessable here.

The funds are indeed considered tax-free in my home country—entirely legal and above board. How can I determine whether these funds, when remitted to Thailand, would be considered assessable income under Thai tax laws?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, CapraIbex said:

The funds are indeed considered tax-free in my home country—entirely legal and above board. How can I determine whether these funds, when remitted to Thailand, would be considered assessable income under Thai tax laws?

Is the income exempt under the DTA or because of Por 161, if not they are likely assessable here.

[The Cyclist]

50 minutes ago, JimGant said:

By the way, taxable income is literally income upon which some tax is owed.

 

In a literal sense, you are correct

 

But the pertinent  part is that    ' Assessable Income ' over the thresholds of 60k / 110k and 220k requires tax filing.

 

Tax will be owed on any part of the  ' Assessable Income " that remains after TEDA's have been applied.

 

And the way I, and many others read that is

 

Assessesable income 500,000 Baht - File a tax return

 

Apply TEDA's ( for example ) 560,000 Baht - No tax to pay

 

Or

 

Assessable income 1,000,000 Baht - File a tax return

 

Apply TEDA's ( for example ) 560,000 Baht

 

Tax will be owed on the remaining 440,000 Baht.

 

For some reason or other you are confusing the levels  where tax filing is mandated by the RD,  and the levels of where actual tax starts to be paid

 

 

[JimGant]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

For some reason or other you are confusing the levels  where tax filing is mandated by the RD,  and the levels of where actual tax starts to be paid

Never mentioned the 60/120/220 thresholds for mandatory filing -- that's irrelevant to what's actually taxable income. And what I was responding to was the page one of the KBank request for information, where it says you're only required to have a Thai TIN *IF* you have "taxable income." Thus, my defining of taxable income is: what's left after subtracting out TEDA. So, in my case, with a TEDA of 560k -- I have no taxable income until my assessable income exceeds 560k -- and no need to get a TIN if I have no taxable income.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

where it says you're only required to have a Thai TIN *IF* you have "taxable income." Thus, my defining of taxable income is: what's left after subtracting out TEDA.

 

Yes, that is what the form says, and I believe that this is a bad translation

 

And I don't know about you, but I would go on what the RD says and not what is said on a bank form. And you need a Thai TIN if you have ' Assessable Income ' over the 60k / 120k / 220 k limits.

 

You of course, are free to do whatever you think is best for you, no skin off my nose.

[JimGant]

43 minutes ago, CapraIbex said:

The funds are indeed considered tax-free in my home country—entirely legal and above board. How can I determine whether these funds, when remitted to Thailand, would be considered assessable income under Thai tax laws?

Sadly, there's nothing in Thai related DTAs, at least the US-Thai DTA, that addresses this situation. Here's how this was gotten around in the UK-US DTA, as regards a tax exempt Roth distribution:

Quote

Fortunately, the U.S. Treasury Department’s Technical Explanation to the Treaty explains Article 17(1) using the Roth IRA as an illustrative example. The Technical Explanation states, “Thus, for example, a distribution from a U.S. ‘Roth IRA’ to a UK resident would be exempt from tax in the United Kingdom to the same extent the distribution would be exempt from tax in the United States if it were distributed to a U.S. resident.”

https://expattaxprofessionals.com/blog/article/roth-ira-taxation-expats-in-uk

 

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

You of course, are free to do whatever you think is best for you, no skin off my nose.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.....

[4myr]

what's the criteria that Thai banks use to send these FATCA/CRS emails?

I got one from KBank, but not from Bangkok Bank [yet]. My wife did not get any email from any bank at all.
 

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.....

 

No need to appreciate it.

 

But I think you need to appreciate that " Assessable Income " is also " Taxable Income " the levels where tax is applicable will pertain to an individuals TEDA's.

[BuddyPish]

transfer money as crypto stablecoin to your Thai exchange, then convert into baht and it's not overseas income ...easy

[redwood1]

16 minutes ago, 4myr said:

what's the criteria that Thai banks use to send these FATCA/CRS emails?

I got one from KBank, but not from Bangkok Bank [yet]. My wife did not get any email from any bank at all.
 

 

This is called fishing for a reaction......Thailand does this all the time....They haphazardly release a possible controversial new policy.....Just to see what the reaction is.....If the reaction is bad often times its followed up with, this was all a big misunderstanding.....And the new policy is never heard from again....

Edited 2 hours ago by redwood1

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

This is called fishing for a reaction......Thailand does this all the time....They haphazardly release a possible controversial new policy.....Just to see what the reaction is.....If the reaction is bad often times its followed up with, this was all a big misunderstanding.....And the new policy is never heard from again....

 

Yes, of course. Perhaps you should have a read of this and then take your garbage elsewhere.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

[Cuchulainn]

May I ask a question?

 

If remitted overseas savings (pre 1st  January 2024) are classified as non assessable income (i.e. no tax to be paid), what about the 2024 accrued interest from that tax exempt account?

 

Is the remitted 2024 interest assessable income?  Or, as part and parcel of the pre 2024 account, non assessable?

 

Thank you

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

May I ask a question?

 

If remitted overseas savings (pre 1st  January 2024) are classified as non assessable income (i.e. no tax to be paid), what about the 2024 accrued interest from that tax exempt account?

 

Is the remitted 2024 interest assessable income?  Or, as part and parcel of the pre 2024 account, non assessable?

 

Thank you

The interest income is assessable 

Edited 1 hour ago by chiang mai

[Cuchulainn]

^^ Thank you  CM

[Cuchulainn]

Just as an afterthought (or brainfart, in my case!), who's to say the remitted money from pre 2024 account wasn't the 2024 interest, but the principal from 2023??

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

Just as an afterthought (or brainfart, in my case!), who's to say the remitted money from pre 2024 account wasn't the 2024 interest, but the principal from 2023??

You, that's who. And it's your job to prove it, if asked.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, CapraIbex said:

The funds are indeed considered tax-free in my home country—entirely legal and above board. How can I determine whether these funds, when remitted to Thailand, would be considered assessable income under Thai tax laws?

 

You would have to read TRD regulations and your DTA.

 

TRD does not recognize, for 'zample, deductions and allowances granted under IRS rules........unless spelled out in the Thai-US DTA.

 

Per IRS rules, capital losses can offset capital gains.  Thailand does not allow this.  You made a $50K profit selling one stock, and sold another at a $50K loss for zero tax liability in the US.  Bring the proceeds into Thailand, and you potentially owe tax, depending on how you can determine which pot of funds that transfer came from.

 

If Thailand switches to worldwide income taxation, it won't matter. 

"All you gains berong us!"

 

 

[BritManToo]

22 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

Just as an afterthought (or brainfart, in my case!), who's to say the remitted money from pre 2024 account wasn't the 2024 interest, but the principal from 2023??

Why not tell them you inherited the money (millions) from your parents who died 20 years ago? And you've had no income of any kind since the day you inherited.

Edited 21 minutes ago by BritManToo

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, BuddyPish said:

transfer money as crypto stablecoin to your Thai exchange, then convert into baht and it's not overseas income ...easy

 

Correct.

Then it becomes Thai income.

 

[Cuchulainn]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why not tell them you inherited the money (millions) from your parents who died 20 years ago? And you've had no income of any kind since the day you inherited.

That is exactly what it is. Money from deceased parents' wills.

 

Even so, that won't hide the fact that interest was generated on the pre 2024 principal and was remitted this year.

[Neeranam]

On 11/25/2024 at 12:39 PM, anchadian said:

Has anyone considered transferring gift(s) to your wife or girlfriend?

 

Up ro 20 million in a tax year is tax exempt for relatives and up to 10 million a year again is tax exempt for non-relatives on the understanding that you do not gain any benefit and it is solely not for living expenses.

 

This would work in my case as my girlfriend has a job and she has told me on several occasions not to give her any money, but I do anyway (her savings account is very healthy).

You have to register it with the Revenue dept. and not totally tax exempt.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, BuddyPish said:

transfer money as crypto stablecoin to your Thai exchange, then convert into baht and it's not overseas income ...easy

It's not that easy, which exchange do you use? I use Bitkub who know all my tax details. Binance don't. 

I use my Crypt.com debit card to pay for groceries, uni fees, petrol, actually nearly everything. I also get 3% back in CRO tokens. 

Of course, there are 'agents' who you send your crypto to and they deliver cash to your home.  

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Cuchulainn said:

If remitted overseas savings (pre 1st  January 2024) are classified as non assessable income (i.e. no tax to be paid), what about the 2024 accrued interest from that tax exempt account?

 

Is the remitted 2024 interest assessable income?  Or, as part and parcel of the pre 2024 account, non assessable?

 

No, not assessable -- at least initially. Whatever your account balance was on 31 Dec 2023 -- this is all non assessable, until this amount has been totally remitted. Then, yes, reinvested interest now becomes assessable.

 

Why? Because of the fungibility of money, i.e., no specificity of individual lots possible. Thus, you're allowed to use FIFO (first in, first out), which, of course, means everything before that post 2023 interest. See this article from a 2012 Bangkok Post:

 

Quote

 For scripless securities [same as fungible money], the taxpayer is allowed to use any acceptable accounting method such as FIFO, LIFO or weighted average method in calculating cost of securities.

- Once any of the accounting methods is used for calculation of cost basis, such method has to be used consistently.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/299691/when-the-revenue-department-changes-its-mind-the-taxpayer-gets-the-headache