K bank E-mail with Tax Forms attached ?

[Gimmi]

12 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The self-certification form sent by Kasikorn that you need to fill in, allows to state that you do not have a Thai TIN when you provide a valid reason.  An accepted and valid reason is that you can state that your income is already taxed in your home-country, and that you would therefore be exempted from paying taxes on it in Thailand.

Also note that the 'certified' passport-copy you need to provide is simply bad english-thai speak and it simply means that the copy of your passport ID-page needs to carry your signature.

> It's a Big NothingBurger as several members that went to their Kasikorn branche have already found out. 

We should issue a complaint that we as their  'valued customers' did receive such a confusing and alarming e-mail, that didn't even mention that you can settle the whole thing at your local KK branche and that you only need to bring your Passport and your Tax ID-number from your home-country. 

the crs is not used to understand where you pay your taxes. It is used to understand if the bank account has been declared in your country of origin if you are a resident.

[sikishrory]

On 11/24/2024 at 12:48 PM, sikishrory said:

Actually I just got through to them on the phone by entering the extension that was listed in the email. It bypasses the regular system.

She spoke good English and was very helpful.

 

The form / email is real.

Non- US citizens can ignore the 2 IRS ones and just fill in the Thai one.

It can be done via email as requested or done in branch for people with security concerns or who would prefer that.

I asked what if it is not done. She said then if you want to do transactions or update your account in branch you may not be able to proceed to "the next step". I said you mean "if it is not done you cannot do transactions and use your account"? She said no it is only when you try to do things in branch. Take that as you will.

I said I believe you have this info already should I still do it. She recommended yes.

For the passport she said you need to scan it on white paper and sign it then send it. 

 

She also said it is something about this being a new requirement of a system that Kbank has signed up to last year or something.

She also mentioned something about older accounts. As if to say some accounts are older and at that time the information wasn't needed but now it is. Perhaps by old she meant older than the new system they signed up to a year ago.

 

That's about all I know and asked.

 

 

As an update to this. I filled out the Thai form and went to the bank today to hand it in as I had to go there for something else anyway.

I handed it over and she said "you take a picture and send in your email". "You have it in your email"? Clearly not wanting to accept it. Despite explaining that the bank told me I can hand it into the branch.

As I sat down to do this I noticed an older man next to me was trying to do exactly the same thing with the same form and getting the same answer. Except that he was explaining he can't do it because his house was flooded and computer damaged etc.

 

I calmly ignored my tellers smug refusal and proceeded to do what I was really there for. Getting a statement for the DTV visa.

After this was done the teller mentioned that she had updated the other tax form for me and I no longer need to do it. Except she made me sign the signature page again in front of her for some reason. 

I don't know what changed her mind tbh.

As I was walking out the older man that was next to me was at a nearby bench fumbling with the stupid form trying to take pictures and send it and stuff because his teller evdently did not let him give it to her.

So in typical Thai fashion no consistency or standards in the service they give and no F's given.

I felt like mentioning to him on my way out that they just did it for me but I knew it wouldn't have helped anything anyway.

[gkp]

13 minutes ago, Seppius said:

Did you print off and take the form in?, or did they have then there? Thanks

They had all the forms and filled them in 

you just had to sign at the end 

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

But your UK bank may, in any event, already be aware of your Thai TIN as a result of a self-certification form (example below) they asked you to complete back in 2016 preparatory to the implementation of CRS in the UK!

HSBC and RBS did not send such forms to me.

[flexomike]

On 11/25/2024 at 2:34 AM, Funkymover said:

it does say , if you have already done this or your details or up to date , you can ignore it ,, but what does up to date mean,,, does it mean have your details changed since you opened it,,  because my details are the same from day one 20 years ago . 

passport number?

[Funkymover]

1 minute ago, flexomike said:

passport number?

that was up dated 3 years ago 

[flexomike]

On 11/25/2024 at 9:19 AM, Upnotover said:

She doesn't qualify.  From the earlier quoted mail from Kasikorn;

 

"is an email that the bank has sent to foreign customers who have deposit account with Kasikornbank and pay taxes abroad and have never filled out the FATCA/CRS form."

My wife is a Thai with US citizen and did not receive an email. She can't remember if she gave this info to the bank when she opened it about six years ago

[flexomike]

On 11/25/2024 at 9:34 AM, Gobbler said:

Almost 18 years ago the wife opened an account at BB. She is Thai.  They gave her a questionnaire in Thai and English and she still didn't understand why they were asking her all these intrusive question. 

 

I took the paper and ripped it to shreds before the BB employee.  She said nothing. 

Wow, you are a real class act

[flexomike]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:17 AM, Wrwest said:

While I file FBAR some years, if I do not hold over $10,000.00 usd in an account at any time during the year, I am not required to file FBAR. As to FACTA ... required only if over $50,000.00 usd so does not apply to me.

Not sure how many accounts you have but it is a combination of all accounts held outside of the US

[gtr]

Ben of integrity legal going off again about the matter 
 

 

[Trailmeister]

29 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

 

As an update to this. I filled out the Thai form and went to the bank today to hand it in as I had to go there for something else anyway.

I handed it over and she said "you take a picture and send in your email". "You have it in your email"? Clearly not wanting to accept it. Despite explaining that the bank told me I can hand it into the branch.

As I sat down to do this I noticed an older man next to me was trying to do exactly the same thing with the same form and getting the same answer. Except that he was explaining he can't do it because his house was flooded and computer damaged etc.

 

I calmly ignored my tellers smug refusal and proceeded to do what I was really there for. Getting a statement for the DTV visa.

After this was done the teller mentioned that she had updated the other tax form for me and I no longer need to do it. Except she made me sign the signature page again in front of her for some reason. 

I don't know what changed her mind tbh.

As I was walking out the older man that was next to me was at a nearby bench fumbling with the stupid form trying to take pictures and send it and stuff because his teller evdently did not let him give it to her.

So in typical Thai fashion no consistency or standards in the service they give and no F's given.

I felt like mentioning to him on my way out that they just did it for me but I knew it wouldn't have helped anything anyway.

 

I had a similar experience today when I visited a local branch. From what I understood, the information will eventually be sent to the email address mentioned in their message. It doesn’t matter whether you visit the branch or not.

 

I ended up calling customer support, and they confirmed they would either send it to the email for you or let you handle it yourself. I’m not sure if the process varies at other branches.

 

He explained to me. For non-U.S. citizens: If you don’t have a Thai tax ID and no income is listed on page two, you’ll need to check "Yes" and provide your home country’s tax ID. It seems they require at least one tax ID. I told my case that I'm longer then 180 days in Thailand, no taxable income, not working, no work permit, and not registered anymore in my home country. I said as well that i didn't get a tax id in Thailand in the first place.

[NanLaew]

On 11/25/2024 at 12:16 PM, 10000Baht said:

On 11/25/2024 at 11:21 AM, UWEB said:

On FAB 103 a guy reported this morning he has got the mail last night from "Kasikorn" but he doesn't even has an Account with the Bank.

Maybe this is the scam!

 

Sounds more like the "FAB 103" guy has no idea who is using his email address.

 

Then there are the many members who say, "I have an account but haven't received this email, so it's a scam... but I don't know if the bank actually has my email address."

 

Who ties your shoes in the morning?

[Mutt Daeng]

4 hours ago, wallyw00 said:

 It asks are you a 'resident' for tax purposes. I am not resident in my home country and have told the tax authorities so, but I do pay tax on income in that country, so I would tick 'no'

Same for me. I pay tax on my pensions in the UK but am not resident there for tax purposes. Don't have a UK address and haven't been there since May 2010.

[wallyw00]

10 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Same for me. I pay tax on my pensions in the UK but am not resident there for tax purposes. Don't have a UK address and haven't been there since May 2010.

So in your opinion would the answer be 'no' also?

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, MTPBKK said:

Tried to log in on revenue department website

Do you have a link to it please.

[CharlieH]

Worried about a Tax Id ? Have a Pink ID Card and Yellow Tabien Bahn ?............

 

 

[UWEB]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Who ties your shoes in the morning?

Nobody as all my Shoes are without. So sorry that I can't help you out to get your Shoes on.

[Dah fahrang]

23 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

How about if you have 2  Kasikorn accounts at 2  different branches in 2  different cities..........? Do you need to do it in each branch or will the one suffice?

I hold two K Bank accounts. One in my name, one in joint names with my Thai wife.

Today, armed with passport, both bankbook(s) and Thai Tax TIN, walked into a Kasikorn branch in a shopping mall in rural Ratchaburi - not my own branch!

Showed the email on my phone to the Customer Service lady. She read it, still wasn't sure, but with a quick call to her head office, sat us down. Asked for my passport and bank book(s). Confirmed I'm not American, then downloaded just the FATCA Self Certification form, with "no" ticked in all the boxes, printed it, copied the bank book and passport ID page, and asked me to sign all.  Job done. 

For good measure, as my wife is a dual national, we asked that she complete the same FATCA form to cover our joint account: no issue, same process. Wife showed Thai ID card, foreign (UK) passport and bankbook in joint names. 

Very easy, and politely done within 10 minutes. No worries  about e-mailing completed forms. Branch will upload them.  

We did have to wait 10 minutes in 'sub-zero' air conditioning before being attended to by a smart-ass  giving the staff a hard time setting up the K banking app on his phone.

Hope this helps! 

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, sikishrory said:

 

As an update to this. I filled out the Thai form and went to the bank today to hand it in as I had to go there for something else anyway.

I handed it over and she said "you take a picture and send in your email". "You have it in your email"? Clearly not wanting to accept it. Despite explaining that the bank told me I can hand it into the branch.

As I sat down to do this I noticed an older man next to me was trying to do exactly the same thing with the same form and getting the same answer. Except that he was explaining he can't do it because his house was flooded and computer damaged etc.

 

I calmly ignored my tellers smug refusal and proceeded to do what I was really there for. Getting a statement for the DTV visa.

After this was done the teller mentioned that she had updated the other tax form for me and I no longer need to do it. Except she made me sign the signature page again in front of her for some reason. 

I don't know what changed her mind tbh.

As I was walking out the older man that was next to me was at a nearby bench fumbling with the stupid form trying to take pictures and send it and stuff because his teller evdently did not let him give it to her.

So in typical Thai fashion no consistency or standards in the service they give and no F's given.

I felt like mentioning to him on my way out that they just did it for me but I knew it wouldn't have helped anything anyway.

What location and branch? kinda useful.

 

Would be good if people could be bothered to mention the branch

[Mutt Daeng]

1 hour ago, wallyw00 said:

So in your opinion would the answer be 'no' also?

That's affirmative.

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, gkp said:

Went in central pattaya  branch 10 mins ago 

they filled out the forms for me

I just gave them my uk home address and my national insurance number 

all done in 5 mins 

Not sure there's any point giving an NI number, indicates you don't have a tax number in UK, i.e. not taxed anywhere

[Gobbler]

3 hours ago, flexomike said:

Wow, you are a real class act

 

I am happy you took notice.

[Keeps]

Does anyone think there will be repercussions by not responding to the email prior to the deadline given of 20th December?

 

I am not currently in Thailand and unlikely to be back prior to mid February. I would much prefer to go into my Kasikorn branch as, reading some of the previous posts, this seems to be the most hassle free way of addressing the issue.

 

 

[SooKee]

30 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Not sure there's any point giving an NI number, indicates you don't have a tax number in UK, i.e. not taxed anywhere

My thoughts exactly.  Unless there's very good reason I suspect they will expect to see that any income you may have is getting taxed somewhere unless that income is exempt.  This type of form I've already filled in when I opened accounts at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri.

I haven't been to the UK in 26 years but my State Pension is taxed at source there.  I have entered my HMRC URN (one of the, 4 IIRC, TIN types you could have in the UK) on the form and under the address sections have entered: "I am not a UK tax resident and have no address in the UK but my State pension is taxed in the UK by the national tax authority HMRC".  TINs are 10 digit codes apparently so, at least in my case, my NI number is only 9 alpha-numeric characters so wouldn't be accepted, assuming they even check.

I also have a Thai TIN and in the final notes section I have merely entered: "I have no income in Thailand from any source other than annual interest on deposits in Thai bank accounts.  It is for this reason only that I have a Thai TIN."

Everyone will do what they think is best but, given Kasikorn will share this information with the Thai tax authorities, I don't want to find myself in a position where , if this taxing of foreign income comes to pass, where I go to explain that it's already taxed and they say "OK, but on this form you said..........", if I just say nothing.  Of course one can always plead "confusing forms", just not worth the hassle IMO.  Equally though, I might end up giving more information than I need and regret that.  I've still not finally decided which way to go yet, will hand the forms in at a branch in a week or two.

Edited 3 hours ago by SooKee

[scubascuba3]

23 minutes ago, Keeps said:

Does anyone think there will be repercussions by not responding to the email prior to the deadline given of 20th December?

 

I am not currently in Thailand and unlikely to be back prior to mid February. I would much prefer to go into my Kasikorn branch as, reading some of the previous posts, this seems to be the most hassle free way of addressing the issue.

 

 

the date will get put back as they will be swamped most likely. Kasikorn could also lock the account until you update the details, kinda what they do for facial recognition, probably unlikely though in the short term

[garygooner]

4 hours ago, gkp said:

They had all the forms and filled them in 

you just had to sign at the end 

Where was this? Bkk/Pattaya? 

[garygooner]

4 hours ago, Trailmeister said:

 

I had a similar experience today when I visited a local branch. From what I understood, the information will eventually be sent to the email address mentioned in their message. It doesn’t matter whether you visit the branch or not.

 

I ended up calling customer support, and they confirmed they would either send it to the email for you or let you handle it yourself. I’m not sure if the process varies at other branches.

 

He explained to me. For non-U.S. citizens: If you don’t have a Thai tax ID and no income is listed on page two, you’ll need to check "Yes" and provide your home country’s tax ID. It seems they require at least one tax ID. I told my case that I'm longer then 180 days in Thailand, no taxable income, not working, no work permit, and not registered anymore in my home country. I said as well that i didn't get a tax id in Thailand in the first place.

Did you check yes & give your home tax ID no? 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, UWEB said:

Nobody as all my Shoes are without. So sorry that I can't help you out to get your Shoes on.

And I am exceedingly happy for you.

 

But back on topic, it's up to the customer to ensure that whatever bank they use, they keep their personal AND CONTACT information current. With the burgeoning implementation of updated tax rules it's the customer's responsibility to make sure they don't have any unpleasant surprises.

 

Thanks.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Keeps said:

Does anyone think there will be repercussions by not responding to the email prior to the deadline given of 20th December?

 

I am not currently in Thailand and unlikely to be back prior to mid February. I would much prefer to go into my Kasikorn branch as, reading some of the previous posts, this seems to be the most hassle free way of addressing the issue.

 

 

 

To me, "hassle free" is downloading the forms as requested, completing them as applicable, and emailing them back to the bank, as they have instructed. More so if one is currently out of the country. By February, they may require something else. Despite several members reporting quick and efficient service as a walk-in at certain branches, this success cannot be guaranteed at ALL branches.

[MangoKorat]

9 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

So they are committing benefits fraud qed are committing crimes. Exactly how is it relevant to the Thai authorities/banks.

 

That HMRC and HMPO are not chasing them doesn’t make them less criminal.

A crime by omission is no less criminal.

 

Are you suggesting that they should say to the Thai bank/authorities that “because I want to commit fraud I should not have to complete your form“?

 

maybe now you see exactly how ridiculous the idea is?

The question many may pose is exactly who is the criminal - those who don't notify the UK authorities they are living abroad or the UK Government for refusing to allow such people to receive their pension increases?

 

Take 2 UK citizens who have paid in identical conributions to the state pension fund.  One stays in the UK and receives all his annual increases, the other moves abroad and his pension is frozen on the day he leaves.

 

The bloke who moves abroad stops costing the UK for doctor/hospital appointments and/or treatment. The bloke who stays is likely, as we all are, to need an increasing amount of appointments and treatment as he ages. If he gets a serious illness it could cost the UK a hell of a lot of money whilst the bloke living abroad has to pay for his own treatment.

 

I can't see any justification whatsoever to freeze the pensions of people who choose to move to a warmer climate in their retirement. There is supposed to be some sort of social security arrangement with countries where you can move to without your pension being frozen - The Philippenes for example. Do you believe that?  Have you ever heard of any UK retirees in The Philippenes receiving free hospital treatment? Genuine question.

 

You clearly have different thoughts but I know who I believe the real criminals are.

 

I would also point  out that whilst people like us are aware of this pension freezing - that's because we are on forums like this. When I talk to people here is the UK, they have no idea that their pensions may be frozen if they move abroad.

 

P.S.  I have just noticed that Jamaica is on the list of places where you can still receive your pension increases.  I have several friends from Jamaica and they tell me that receiving any form of decent healthcare there is just about impossible unless they pay.  If Jamaican citizens can't access decent free healthcare - I very much doubt UK retiress can.

Edited 1 hour ago by MangoKorat